Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Syriusly]

Wake us up when any of that happens.

Well in reality it already has, where as the cake baker .

No- it hasn't.

Bakers are not churches.

Business's are not churches.

Churches are not business's and do not follow the same rules as business's

I am a church, where as my skin surrounds my temple .

Good for you. No one is going to force you to perform a marriage inside your skin.

Meanwhile- a business is not a church- a church is not a business.

As you pointed out- business's have to pay taxes- churches do not.

Business's have to follow laws regarding discrimination- churches do not.

The government should not be making people who are Christian business owners bake cakes for gay's against their will.

Then you- and the bakers- have two solutions:
a) change the law- remember the government just isn't arbitrarily telling them to bake cakes for gays- there is a law in place.
b) Or challenge the law in court.

But are legitimate ways to deal with laws you disagree with.

Just as gay couples have used both methods to change laws against same gender marriage.

 

[Silhouette]

Just like for years most people believed that same gender marriage is wrong.

Just like the courts are being used to effect change now.

The difference is the attitude of people has already changed- and more support same gender marriage now than supported mixed race marriages in 1985.

Progress against bigotry is a beautiful thing.

Yes, I believe the Court is aware by now it's being used. That may not play in your favor when the question of what is best for ALL children, not just those caught up in LGBT lifestyles is weighed.

Your second point I highlighted is deceptive. It paints the illusion that "a majority now support gay marriage". Support is support. It isn't conditional. Apparently though, the most popular poll at USMB (see the top of the page) says that at the very least, 82% of Americans consider any support for gay marriage conditional. That is to say if this or any fraction of this 82% is for gay marriage, it is extremely lukewarm support.

 

[Syriusly]

Just like for years most people believed that same gender marriage is wrong.

Just like the courts are being used to effect change now.

The difference is the attitude of people has already changed- and more support same gender marriage now than supported mixed race marriages in 1985.

Progress against bigotry is a beautiful thing.

Yes, I believe the Court is aware by now it's being used. ..

I believe the Court is also aware that it is being used to bring about justice and equality.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Just like for years most people believed that same gender marriage is wrong.

Just like the courts are being used to effect change now.

The difference is the attitude of people has already changed- and more support same gender marriage now than supported mixed race marriages in 1985.

Progress against bigotry is a beautiful thing.

Yes, I believe the Court is aware by now it's being used. That may not play in your favor when the question of what is best for ALL children, not just those caught up in LGBT lifestyles is weighed.

Your second point I highlighted is deceptive. It paints the illusion that "a majority now support gay marriage". Support is support. It isn't conditional. Apparently though, the most popular poll at USMB (see the top of the page) says that at the very least, 82% of Americans consider any support for gay marriage conditional. That is to say if this or any fraction of this 82% is for gay marriage, it is extremely lukewarm support.

Since more than 50% of the US population now supports marriage equality, you lose.

And your "poll" should have read 100% but Americans are as dumb as dog shit.

 

[Silhouette]

Since more than 50% of the US population now supports marriage equality, you lose.

And your "poll" should have read 100% but Americans are as dumb as dog shit.

Not my poll Paint. Look at the OP's name. Now who is dumb as dog shit? You can't read the results above and how many people that voted at this thread that has around 40,000 views & 497 pages?

Gays want to force individual christian bakers to participate in their fake/illegal weddings against their faith but suddenly they'd draw the line at the doors of a church?

Yeah...

 

[Silhouette]

Since more than 50% of the US population now supports marriage equality, you lose.

And your "poll" should have read 100% but Americans are as dumb as dog shit.

You know, the poll at the top of this page says differently..

And Judge Sutton had a curious thing to say about that. He noted how odd it was that LGBTs had gay marriage itself up for a vote on an Ohio ballot and then suddenly removed it. He pondered how odd it was that LGBTs keep claiming all this majority support for gay marriage but how they seem rabid almost in removing that from the popular vote. With such confidence, there should be a similar initiative on every ballot in every state. Why waste all this time litigating when a majority of the public already approve? Just put it on the ballots and be done with it...

..unless the numbers you're quoting you know damn well are fudged...

Fake it till you make it! Right Paint?

 

[beagle9]

Just like for years most people believed that same gender marriage is wrong.

Just like the courts are being used to effect change now.

The difference is the attitude of people has already changed- and more support same gender marriage now than supported mixed race marriages in 1985.

Progress against bigotry is a beautiful thing.

Yes, I believe the Court is aware by now it's being used. That may not play in your favor when the question of what is best for ALL children, not just those caught up in LGBT lifestyles is weighed.

Your second point I highlighted is deceptive. It paints the illusion that "a majority now support gay marriage". Support is support. It isn't conditional. Apparently though, the most popular poll at USMB (see the top of the page) says that at the very least, 82% of Americans consider any support for gay marriage conditional. That is to say if this or any fraction of this 82% is for gay marriage, it is extremely lukewarm support.

Since more than 50% of the US population now supports marriage equality, you lose.

And your "poll" should have read 100% but Americans are as dumb as dog shit.

Sounds like you and Gruber might come from the same cookie cutter, so as we see Gruber falling and flailing around now, could it be that the tide is turning in America, and this as we see that Americans are finally realizing that they have been duped in all of these things that have been pushed upon them now ?

 

[Syriusly]

Since more than 50% of the US population now supports marriage equality, you lose.

And your "poll" should have read 100% but Americans are as dumb as dog shit.

You know, the poll at the top of this page says differently..
/QUOTE]

No- no it doesn't.

 

[Silhouette]

Well Syriusly, how in support of gay marriage can you really be if you draw the line at having them in churches that don't want them? I mean, LGBTs are suing the crap out of christian bakers, photographers, etc. for not wanting to participate in/promote the deviant sex lifestyles their faith forbids them to promote. What's so sacred about the doors of a building (a church)? Isn't it the mind of the faithful that is the true temple? Or is EVERYTHING important to your cult just a shallow, empty phasod that you cannot imagine that the kernel of faith is lodged deeply within the gray matter of the faithful? There's the real church..

...and what you do isn't allowed in there...

 

[Syriusly]

Well Syriusly, how in support of gay marriage can you really be if you draw the line at having them in churches that don't want them?.

I am in support of equal marriage for same gender couples- BUT no Church should or will be forced to marry any couple that doesn't meet the Church's requirements.

For instance- the Catholic Church would not allow my wife and I to get married in a Catholic Church.

Jews can't insist that the Baptist Church marry them, Evangelicals can't insist that a rabbi marry them and gay's cannot force any church to marry them if that is against church doctrine.

Simply a scare tactic by the anti-gay activists.

 

[Silhouette]

I am in support of equal marriage for same gender couples- BUT no Church should or will be forced to marry any couple that doesn't meet the Church's requirements....For instance- the Catholic Church would not allow my wife and I to get married in a Catholic Church....Jews can't insist that the Baptist Church marry them, Evangelicals can't insist that a rabbi marry them and gay's cannot force any church to marry them if that is against church doctrine.

So then you're against christian bakers or photographers having to provide services for gay weddings as well?

Because as I said, the real kernel of religion, the real "church" is in the mind of the faithful. Each individual one. Remember, we are talking about an LGBT lifestyle here, not a race of people.

 

[Syriusly]

I am in support of equal marriage for same gender couples- BUT no Church should or will be forced to marry any couple that doesn't meet the Church's requirements....For instance- the Catholic Church would not allow my wife and I to get married in a Catholic Church....Jews can't insist that the Baptist Church marry them, Evangelicals can't insist that a rabbi marry them and gay's cannot force any church to marry them if that is against church doctrine.

So then you're against christian bakers or photographers having to provide services for gay weddings as well?
.

LOL....oh Silhouette- what would you do if you could not lie in a post?

IF the law says that business's have to provide services to the public regardless of their race, religion, national origin or gender- then those business's cannot refuse service to someone because owner is a Muslim who thinks his religious beliefs say he cannot sell to a Christian.

IF the law says that business's have to provide services to the public regardless of their sexual identity, then that business cannot refuse to service someone because the owner is a Christian who thinks his religious beliefs say he cannot sell to a Lesbian.

What is the recourse? Well just like gay couples who believed that anti-gay marriage laws were unconstiutional, that baker or photographer can attempt to change the law by:
a) going to court- like some gay couples have or
b) changing the law through the ballot or legislation- as other gay couples have.

Both are legitimate ways to change the law.

But a business is not a church.
A church is not a business.

No church should- or will- be forced to marry anyone- black, Jew, Christian, gay- against their will.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Since more than 50% of the US population now supports marriage equality, you lose.

And your "poll" should have read 100% but Americans are as dumb as dog shit.

Not my poll Paint. Look at the OP's name. Now who is dumb as dog shit? You can't read the results above and how many people that voted at this thread that has around 40,000 views & 497 pages?

Gays want to force individual christian bakers to participate in their fake/illegal weddings against their faith but suddenly they'd draw the line at the doors of a church?

Yeah...

No one cares where they draw the line, the line is drawn, and it isn't moving. Anyone who says it is is fear-mongering, nothing more.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

[...could it be that the tide is turning in America...

No...

 

[Silhouette]

LOL....oh Silhouette- what would you do if you could not lie in a post?

IF the law says that business's have to provide services to the public regardless of their race, religion, national origin or gender- then those business's cannot refuse service to someone because owner is a Muslim who thinks his religious beliefs say he cannot sell to a Christian.

IF the law says that business's have to provide services to the public regardless of their sexual identity, then that business cannot refuse to service someone because the owner is a Christian who thinks his religious beliefs say he cannot sell to a Lesbian.

What is "sexual identity"? Is that like "I am a bulimic-American"?

And what about the Hobby Lobby Decision? I think the Court might be inclined to disagree.

The arguments in future challenges, (for they will come now that conservatives rule the roost) will be "is the temple of God withing a building or a man's mind?".

You of all people should be aware that laws can change with persistence and time. You expected there would be no back pressure to your advances. You miscalculated.

 

[Syriusly]

LOL....oh Silhouette- what would you do if you could not lie in a post?

IF the law says that business's have to provide services to the public regardless of their race, religion, national origin or gender- then those business's cannot refuse service to someone because owner is a Muslim who thinks his religious beliefs say he cannot sell to a Christian.

IF the law says that business's have to provide services to the public regardless of their sexual identity, then that business cannot refuse to service someone because the owner is a Christian who thinks his religious beliefs say he cannot sell to a Lesbian.

What is "sexual identity"? Is that like "I am a bulimic-American"?.

Frequently Asked Questions

What does the expanded Colorado
Anti-Discrimination Act now prohibit?

Places of public accommodation may not
deny any person participation, entry, or
services based upon the person’s sexual
orientation, including transgender status.

What is a “place of public accommodation”?

A public accommodation is any place of
business engaged in o!ering sales or
services of any kind to the public, as well
as any place o!ering facilities, privileges,
advantages or other accommodations to
the public. Typical examples of public
accommodations include, but are not
limited to, hotels, restaurants, stores,
hospitals, clinics, and health clubs.

Is any place of public accommodation
exempt from the law?

Yes. Churches, synagogues, mosques, and
other places used primarily for religious
purposes are exempt from the definition of
public accommodation.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The arguments in future challenges, (for they will come now that conservatives rule the roost) will be "is the temple of God withing a building or a man's mind?".

That depends upon the building. Private, private open to the public, and public. Don't confuse the three because the rules vary, as they should.

 

[Silhouette]

Laws can change.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Laws can change.

Yes they can, but only in a fantasyland would someone believe that they would change your way, back to less equality.

 

[Syriusly]

Laws can change.

Exactly- that is what I was pointing out.

If you don't like laws against discrimination you can fight them.

You could even fight to change the Constitution so that you could force Gays to wear pink armbands.

BUT under our current Consituttion- no church can or will or should- be forced to marry anyone- black, Jew, Armenian or homosexual that the Church does not want to marry.