Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Syriusly]

No I said that the laws are being used by another to set up or to abuse a shop owner, and that is not what the laws were written for or were intended to be used for either.

The laws were intended to prevent discrimination against people in business based on race, age, sexual orientation, religion, creed or ethnicity.

And that's what they do.

The constitution of the United states is also under attack, and it has been for quite sometime now.

These are state laws. And the State have every constitutional authority over intrastate commerce. Moreover, its completely reasonable that the states requiring those engaged in commerce in their state to treat their customers fairly and equally.

So your argument fails on two fronts.

The 'attack on Christians' is largely imagined. While the attack on gays and lesbians, isn't.

Anything can become a reversal on, and this would include discrimination. If a group or people decide that they would use something for that purpose, then we are all abused by this reversal.

We have seen this now in many ways, where as the special privileges that are granted for another, can easily become a way for another to abuse another with, and this be it out of vengeance or even upon the thoughts that the newly protected might have, in which has now a government sanctioning of their ideals on life over another, and it suggest to them that everyone else was always wrong, and that they will now pay for that wrong by way of those things in which were granted unto them, and they then see as a way to get at them with now. Equality ? HA it's more like vengeance is what it has become, and that is what some in these groups seek after by way of or by use of these created protections in which to hide behind while attacking another with them.

You see as long as the devil remains in the details, these things can happen, and they have happened. This is why we see some challenges to try and repeal some of these things or to change them, because it is that amongst the crowd that certain things were created to protect the group, but their is a percentage of those who would take those protections, and then to use them to gain access to try and abuse another with. It is a huge problem that many of the justices didn't take into consideration when granting rights and privileges by law for some, but then not realizing that there is a huge chance that there are many whom may be amongst a group that would abuse those rights and privileges granted unto them, in order to then abuse another or even hundreds of thousands with if they can get away with it.

Once again- your argument is with public accommodation laws- or you are arguing that Christians should be treated differently.

Anyone can argue that they are unfairly targeted by enforcement of PA laws- and certainly there are strong arguments to be made- look at the issue of accommodations for handicapped.

But your sense of 'targeting' could be made by any of the business's that were forced to serve any minority because of PA lawsuit.

There recently has been a surge of private plaintiff lawsuits
fi led under the public accommodation provisions of
the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (“ADA”).1
Public accommodation lawsuits have been common for several
years in states such as Florida and California, but in the past two
years have been fi led with increasing frequency in several states
including North Carolina, Virginia, and Alabama

 

[JakeStarkey]

Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists cannot be treated differently in the public square because of their religion.

In the secular world of public commerce, religionists don't exist as special groups.

 

[Skylar]

Anything can become a reversal on, and this would include discrimination. If a group or people decide that they would use something for that purpose instead of equality, then we are all abused by this reversal that is used against us now.

The laws in question explicitly prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation. Claiming that they weren't intended to prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation is thus invalid.

The laws are doing exactly what they were designed to do. You just think you should be treated special and be exempt from the laws that apply to everyone else.

No.

You see as long as the devil remains in the details, these things can happen, and they have happened.

In 50 years since interracial marriage bans were lifted, no church has been forced to perform an interracial marriage they didn't want to.

There are zero examples of churches will be forced to perform gay weddings in contradiction of their beliefs.

There's zero indication that churches will be forced to perform gay weddings in contradiction of their beliefs.

If anyone does try to force churches to perform weddings against their doctrine, I'll gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with you in opposition to it. As, I suspect, would almost everyone in this thread.

 

[beagle9]

But you ignore Jude 1 and Jesus's teachings/warnings in Jude 1 of the New Testament I assume? .

Jude 1 doesn't mention homosexuals even once.

Jude 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

And Jesus never once condemned homosexuals.

He did however condemn lying- like you do all the time.

You are a sinner to Jesus.

Um # 7 dude.. Sorry.

Tell me Beagle- what do you think the basic message of Jude 1 is?

It has many messages within it, but the main one is to follow Christ and his teachings in life, but this is just one of the message to those whom believe, and it is also a message (just as anything in the Bible is for), that is spoken and geared towards the sinners that may come seeking someday to respect such a message, and to be saved by these same teachings and message that are given unto them.

Heyy- we agree on something!

Mostly this letter is to warn Christians against 'false teachers'- there is nothing in this letter condemning homosexuality, nor are these Jesus's own words.

The mention of Sodom and Gomorrah is part of a list of Old Testament punishments by God against bad behavior

And what pray tell is bad behavior ? The new testemant and the old T has a list of what is deemed bad behavior, and the whole book is either believed or it isn't when reading it.

 

[beagle9]

Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists cannot be treated differently in the public square because of their religion.

In the secular world of public commerce, religionists don't exist as special groups.

Tell that to the government who wants to give special privileges to all those whom want to cry victim hood the loudest and forever now, and then we have the new so called victims who are watching and learning from the old ones, that is now telling them that eternal victim hood works on the government, so just keep on crying till the cows come home, because the government will squash.everyone else over those it considers as victims, even when they aren't victims when they say that they are.

 

[beagle9]

Anything can become a reversal on, and this would include discrimination. If a group or people decide that they would use something for that purpose instead of equality, then we are all abused by this reversal that is used against us now.

The laws in question explicitly prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation. Claiming that they weren't intended to prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation is thus invalid.

The laws are doing exactly what they were designed to do. You just think you should be treated special and be exempt from the laws that apply to everyone else.

No.

You see as long as the devil remains in the details, these things can happen, and they have happened.

In 50 years since interracial marriage bans were lifted, no church has been forced to perform an interracial marriage they didn't want to.

There are zero examples of churches will be forced to perform gay weddings in contradiction of their beliefs.

There's zero indication that churches will be forced to perform gay weddings in contradiction of their beliefs.

If anyone does try to force churches to perform weddings against their doctrine, I'll gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with you in opposition to it. As, I suspect, would almost everyone in this thread.

The baker who is a Christian, therefore he carries within himself the religious beliefs that are the same in which they gather together in a church building to speak of and then to learn about, was either forced to participate or be closed down right ? Is this not an attack on the Church that resides within the member indirectly, because it was attacking one of it's extended members who carries within himself the doctrine and belief of those who make up the church right ? Just because the attack happened out in the street, does it mean that the attack didn't occur ?

 

[Skylar]

The baker who is a Christian, therefore he carries within himself the religious beliefs that are the same in which they gather together in a church building to speak of and then to learn about, was either forced to participate or be closed down right ?

The baker isn't a church anymore than the guy at the woolworth's counter that told black folks 'no coloreds served here'. He's a person. He doesn't perform religious ceremonies. He makes cakes.

And if he's going to make cakes as part of a business to the public, he is subject to the States laws that require he treat his customers fairly and equally. Its not a law specifically targeting bakers. Or Christians. Or cake makers. It applies to everyone.

You're demanding that you should get a special exemption from any civil law based one whatever you choose to believe. That the law that apply to everyone somehow not apply to you.

No.

Is this not an attack on the Church that resides within the member indirectly, because it was attacking one of it's extended members who carries within himself the doctrine and belief of those who make up the church right ? Just because the attack happened out in the street, does it mean that the attack didn't occur ?

Nope. Its not an attack on a church. As a baker isn't a church. Anymore than a hubcap is a car.

There are zero examples of any church being forced to perform a marriage they don't want to. There is zero indication of this changing. You can fear monger all you like. But this simple math equation kills it every time:

0 + 0 - 0 = 0

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jude 1 doesn't mention homosexuals even once.

Jude 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

And Jesus never once condemned homosexuals.

He did however condemn lying- like you do all the time.

You are a sinner to Jesus.

Um # 7 dude.. Sorry.

Tell me Beagle- what do you think the basic message of Jude 1 is?

It has many messages within it, but the main one is to follow Christ and his teachings in life, but this is just one of the message to those whom believe, and it is also a message (just as anything in the Bible is for), that is spoken and geared towards the sinners that may come seeking someday to respect such a message, and to be saved by these same teachings and message that are given unto them.

Heyy- we agree on something!

Mostly this letter is to warn Christians against 'false teachers'- there is nothing in this letter condemning homosexuality, nor are these Jesus's own words.

The mention of Sodom and Gomorrah is part of a list of Old Testament punishments by God against bad behavior

And what pray tell is bad behavior ? The new testemant and the old T has a list of what is deemed bad behavior, and the whole book is either believed or it isn't when reading it.

You are a Christian heretic and spiritual weakling, beagle boy.

Jesus is disappointed in your ilk.

 

[beagle9]

The baker who is a Christian, therefore he carries within himself the religious beliefs that are the same in which they gather together in a church building to speak of and then to learn about, was either forced to participate or be closed down right ?

The baker isn't a church anymore than the guy at the woolworth's counter that told black folks 'no coloreds served here'. He's a person. He doesn't perform religious ceremonies. He makes cakes.

And if he's going to make cakes as part of a business to the public, he is subject to the States laws that require he treat his customers fairly and equally. Its not a law specifically targeting bakers. Or Christians. Or cake makers. It applies to everyone.

You're demanding that you should get a special exemption from any civil law based one whatever you choose to believe. That the law that apply to everyone somehow not apply to you.

No.

Is this not an attack on the Church that resides within the member indirectly, because it was attacking one of it's extended members who carries within himself the doctrine and belief of those who make up the church right ? Just because the attack happened out in the street, does it mean that the attack didn't occur ?

Nope. Its not an attack on a church. As a baker isn't a church. Anymore than a hubcap is a car.

There are zero examples of any church being forced to perform a marriage they don't want to. There is zero indication of this changing. You can fear monger all you like. But this simple math equation kills it every time:

0 + 0 - 0 = 0

If you separate a person from their belief system and/or religion in life, then what purpose does that belief system or religion serve him or her if it is cut off from them ? I mean what purpose is a church and it's teachings, otherwise if when one walks just outside the door everything is then lost or not allowed to be spoken of ?

Otherwise if it were to be cut off from within that persons life by request of or the demand of another, then what good is Church or religion at all in this nation or within any nation ? The Lord in my estimation said that if a person is a shamed of him or refuses to say his name out loud, then I would ask how is that he (the Lord) would then represent that person come the judgement ? So if you attack Christians, and they buckle under the pressures, then what will they have done or what have you asked that they do in respect to your secular ideals or thoughts on such matters ?

Hey people are crying to the government on a daily basis now for the want of special privileges or rights that gives them more protections, rights and/or privileges than most citizens enjoy or have in this nation now. Then they (the average citizens whom don't have hardly any of these protections or special privileges afforded to them) are being abused by the government who has empowered these people to abuse them and their beliefs like they have been doing at times. They do this without even a twinkling of and eye over it when they do it, but how dare anyone call them out on it, because someone will say hey they are protected and you can't do anything about it now, and the government backs them up with an attack on you if you don't conform or get with the program finally.

Hec we have a government now that won't even call terrorism by it's real and/or proper name, even after we have seen some horrific acts by these terrorist in this nation and out in the world now. They still are bogged down in political correctness gone haywire, and they are also bogged down with agenda's that are divisive to the max as they push them forward against all those who haven't had these kinds of things challenging them in their lives, but here they all are now.

 

[beagle9]

Um # 7 dude.. Sorry.

Tell me Beagle- what do you think the basic message of Jude 1 is?

It has many messages within it, but the main one is to follow Christ and his teachings in life, but this is just one of the message to those whom believe, and it is also a message (just as anything in the Bible is for), that is spoken and geared towards the sinners that may come seeking someday to respect such a message, and to be saved by these same teachings and message that are given unto them.

Heyy- we agree on something!

Mostly this letter is to warn Christians against 'false teachers'- there is nothing in this letter condemning homosexuality, nor are these Jesus's own words.

The mention of Sodom and Gomorrah is part of a list of Old Testament punishments by God against bad behavior

And what pray tell is bad behavior ? The new testemant and the old T has a list of what is deemed bad behavior, and the whole book is either believed or it isn't when reading it.

You are a Christian heretic and spiritual weakling, beagle boy.

Jesus is disappointed in your ilk.

Like I said before, do you have something of importance to add or are you just trolling ?

 

[Skylar]

If you separate a person from their belief system and/or religion in life, then what purpose does that belief system or religion serve him or her if it is cut off from them ? I mean what purpose is a church and it's teachings, otherwise if when one walks just outside the door everything is then lost or not allowed to be spoken of ?

A person is not a church. Its that simple. Words have meaning. And a person isn't a mosque. They aren't a synagogue. They aren't a chapel. They're a person.

That's not 'separating a person from their belief system'. That's separating your imagination from the actual meaning of words.

Next, lets see if you actually believe your own argument. Muslims believe in their faith. Many believe that sharia law is the religious duty of any Muslim. Would then Sharia law trump any US law using your reasoning? Would then a Muslim be immune to any US or State law that they didn't feel their religion allowed to be applied to them?

If not, why not?

Otherwise if it were to be cut off from within that persons life by request of or the demand of another, then what good is Church or religion at all in this nation or within any nation ? The Lord in my estimation said that if a person is a shamed of him or refuses to say his name out loud, then I would ask how is that he (the Lord) would then represent that person come the judgement ? So if you attack Christians, and they buckle under the pressures, then what will they have done or what have you asked that they do in respect to your secular ideals or thoughts on such matters ?

Holding Christians to Public Accommodation laws isn't 'attacking' them. Invalidating your entire analogy.

You are demanding that our laws be ignored if you don't believe you should have to follow them. With the only person making that decision being you. Its a religiously based 'Soveriegn Citizen' argument. That has never been the basis of our republic, nor should it be.

You are subject to the same civil laws as everyone else. YOu believe you are special, that the laws don't apply to you. You're wrong.

 

[Syriusly]

Anything can become a reversal on, and this would include discrimination. If a group or people decide that they would use something for that purpose instead of equality, then we are all abused by this reversal that is used against us now.

The laws in question explicitly prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation. Claiming that they weren't intended to prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation is thus invalid.

The laws are doing exactly what they were designed to do. You just think you should be treated special and be exempt from the laws that apply to everyone else.

No.

You see as long as the devil remains in the details, these things can happen, and they have happened.

In 50 years since interracial marriage bans were lifted, no church has been forced to perform an interracial marriage they didn't want to.

There are zero examples of churches will be forced to perform gay weddings in contradiction of their beliefs.

There's zero indication that churches will be forced to perform gay weddings in contradiction of their beliefs.

If anyone does try to force churches to perform weddings against their doctrine, I'll gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with you in opposition to it. As, I suspect, would almost everyone in this thread.

The baker who is a Christian, therefore he carries within himself the religious beliefs that are the same in which they gather together in a church building to speak of and then to learn about, was either forced to participate or be closed down right ?

Whether the Baker is a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew- public accommodation laws apply.

I don't know what you are arguing about anymore.

Churches are different than business's.

Public Accomodation laws do not apply to churches- and never will- churches can and have discriminated against people for many, many reasons- and they are not sued for that.

Business's have to comply with public accomodation laws- regardless of what the owners believe.

If you do not want to have to comply with public accomodation laws- either change them or run a business that does not have to deal with the public.

 

[Syriusly]

Jude 1 doesn't mention homosexuals even once.

Jude 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

And Jesus never once condemned homosexuals.

He did however condemn lying- like you do all the time.

You are a sinner to Jesus.

Um # 7 dude.. Sorry.

Tell me Beagle- what do you think the basic message of Jude 1 is?

It has many messages within it, but the main one is to follow Christ and his teachings in life, but this is just one of the message to those whom believe, and it is also a message (just as anything in the Bible is for), that is spoken and geared towards the sinners that may come seeking someday to respect such a message, and to be saved by these same teachings and message that are given unto them.

Heyy- we agree on something!

Mostly this letter is to warn Christians against 'false teachers'- there is nothing in this letter condemning homosexuality, nor are these Jesus's own words.

The mention of Sodom and Gomorrah is part of a list of Old Testament punishments by God against bad behavior

And what pray tell is bad behavior ? The new testemant and the old T has a list of what is deemed bad behavior, and the whole book is either believed or it isn't when reading it.

really- you really want to go into what the Old Testament deems 'bad behavior'? Do you really believe that eating oysters is bad behavior? Or that women wearing pants is bad behavior?

Jesus said to obey the commandments- that seems like pretty sound and straightforward to me.

16Someone came to Jesus with this question: “Teacher,f what good deed must I do to have eternal life?”

17“Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keepg the commandments.”

18“Which ones?” the man asked.

And Jesus replied: “‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. 19Honor your father and mother. Love your neighbor as yourself.’h”

 

[Syriusly]

It is a huge problem that many of the justices didn't take into consideration when granting rights and privileges by law for some, but then not realizing that there is a huge chance that there are many whom may be amongst a group that would abuse those rights and privileges granted unto them, in order to then abuse another or even hundreds of thousands with if they can get away with it.

You are maddeningly both overly broad and vague.

What are you talking about?

Are you talking about the justices saying that we all have the individual right to own guns- and thereby there would be those that would abuse those priveleges in order to abuse others?

Or what?

You make these absurdly broad and vague accusations- and then don't back them with anything.

 

[beagle9]

If you separate a person from their belief system and/or religion in life, then what purpose does that belief system or religion serve him or her if it is cut off from them ? I mean what purpose is a church and it's teachings, otherwise if when one walks just outside the door everything is then lost or not allowed to be spoken of ?

A person is not a church. Its that simple. Words have meaning. And a person isn't a mosque. They aren't a synagogue. They aren't a chapel. They're a person.

That's not 'separating a person from their belief system'. That's separating your imagination from the actual meaning of words.

Next, lets see if you actually believe your own argument. Muslims believe in their faith. Many believe that sharia law is the religious duty of any Muslim. Would then Sharia law trump any US law using your reasoning? Would then a Muslim be immune to any US or State law that they didn't feel their religion allowed to be applied to them?

If not, why not?

Otherwise if it were to be cut off from within that persons life by request of or the demand of another, then what good is Church or religion at all in this nation or within any nation ? The Lord in my estimation said that if a person is a shamed of him or refuses to say his name out loud, then I would ask how is that he (the Lord) would then represent that person come the judgement ? So if you attack Christians, and they buckle under the pressures, then what will they have done or what have you asked that they do in respect to your secular ideals or thoughts on such matters ?

Holding Christians to Public Accommodation laws isn't 'attacking' them. Invalidating your entire analogy.

You are demanding that our laws be ignored if you don't believe you should have to follow them. With the only person making that decision being you. Its a religiously based 'Sovereign Citizen' argument. That has never been the basis of our republic, nor should it be.

You are subject to the same civil laws as everyone else. YOu believe you are special, that the laws don't apply to you. You're wrong.

If there were no attacks on Christians (and there were and still is), then we wouldn't be having the conversation that we are having between each other would we ?

OK, then it may just have to become a sovereign citizen argument, and this for such a thing to be considered now going forward.

I mean if the attacks keep up then we might have to look at other ways for people to not abuse each other in the ways that they are doing now or within the not so distant past. Hey you all are ones to always want change right, so whats wrong with change then ? Are you scared of it ? Oh that's right you aren't if it only goes your way all the time, and then to hec with everyone else right ?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Tell me Beagle- what do you think the basic message of Jude 1 is?

It has many messages within it, but the main one is to follow Christ and his teachings in life, but this is just one of the message to those whom believe, and it is also a message (just as anything in the Bible is for), that is spoken and geared towards the sinners that may come seeking someday to respect such a message, and to be saved by these same teachings and message that are given unto them.

Heyy- we agree on something!

Mostly this letter is to warn Christians against 'false teachers'- there is nothing in this letter condemning homosexuality, nor are these Jesus's own words.

The mention of Sodom and Gomorrah is part of a list of Old Testament punishments by God against bad behavior

And what pray tell is bad behavior ? The new testemant and the old T has a list of what is deemed bad behavior, and the whole book is either believed or it isn't when reading it.

You are a Christian heretic and spiritual weakling, beagle boy.

Jesus is disappointed in your ilk.

Like I said before, do you have something of importance to add or are you just trolling ?

You are the one trolling:

Your repeated immoral trolling of discredited scriptural interpretation;

Your repeated nonsense in long paragraphs that say nothing of worth;

Your repeated refusal to accept that you are truly wrong.

You have a right to your beliefs, and so does everyone else, friend.

You are in the minority, you don't have SCOTUS, law, the vote, or the Bible.

The OP is about churches and marriage. No one will allow churches to be forced to marry those who are not wanted.

You are nothing more than a blip, then you will be relegated to the Kluckers and apartheid folks.

It's over.

 

[beagle9]

Um # 7 dude.. Sorry.

Tell me Beagle- what do you think the basic message of Jude 1 is?

It has many messages within it, but the main one is to follow Christ and his teachings in life, but this is just one of the message to those whom believe, and it is also a message (just as anything in the Bible is for), that is spoken and geared towards the sinners that may come seeking someday to respect such a message, and to be saved by these same teachings and message that are given unto them.

Heyy- we agree on something!

Mostly this letter is to warn Christians against 'false teachers'- there is nothing in this letter condemning homosexuality, nor are these Jesus's own words.

The mention of Sodom and Gomorrah is part of a list of Old Testament punishments by God against bad behavior

And what pray tell is bad behavior ? The new testemant and the old T has a list of what is deemed bad behavior, and the whole book is either believed or it isn't when reading it.

really- you really want to go into what the Old Testament deems 'bad behavior'? Do you really believe that eating oysters is bad behavior? Or that women wearing pants is bad behavior?

Jesus said to obey the commandments- that seems like pretty sound and straightforward to me.

16Someone came to Jesus with this question: “Teacher,f what good deed must I do to have eternal life?”

17“Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keepg the commandments.”

18“Which ones?” the man asked.

And Jesus replied: “‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. 19Honor your father and mother. Love your neighbor as yourself.’h”

Why are you placing words into my mouth, when I have not said to you what I think the interpretation of bad behavior is within the text, and it appears that you don't either in the way that you try and run everything together for the sake of your twisted argument.

 

[beagle9]

It has many messages within it, but the main one is to follow Christ and his teachings in life, but this is just one of the message to those whom believe, and it is also a message (just as anything in the Bible is for), that is spoken and geared towards the sinners that may come seeking someday to respect such a message, and to be saved by these same teachings and message that are given unto them.

Heyy- we agree on something!

Mostly this letter is to warn Christians against 'false teachers'- there is nothing in this letter condemning homosexuality, nor are these Jesus's own words.

The mention of Sodom and Gomorrah is part of a list of Old Testament punishments by God against bad behavior

And what pray tell is bad behavior ? The new testemant and the old T has a list of what is deemed bad behavior, and the whole book is either believed or it isn't when reading it.

You are a Christian heretic and spiritual weakling, beagle boy.

Jesus is disappointed in your ilk.

Like I said before, do you have something of importance to add or are you just trolling ?

You are the one trolling:

Your repeated immoral trolling of discredited scriptural interpretation;

Your repeated nonsense in long paragraphs that say nothing of worth;

Your repeated refusal to accept that you are truly wrong.

You have a right to your beliefs, and so does everyone else, friend.

You are in the minority, you don't have SCOTUS, law, the vote, or the Bible.

The OP is about churches and marriage. No one will allow churches to be forced to marry those who are not wanted.

You are nothing more than a blip, then you will be relegated to the Kluckers and apartheid folks.

It's over.

Still nothing of worth to say eh ?

 

[Syriusly]

Tell me Beagle- what do you think the basic message of Jude 1 is?

It has many messages within it, but the main one is to follow Christ and his teachings in life, but this is just one of the message to those whom believe, and it is also a message (just as anything in the Bible is for), that is spoken and geared towards the sinners that may come seeking someday to respect such a message, and to be saved by these same teachings and message that are given unto them.

Heyy- we agree on something!

Mostly this letter is to warn Christians against 'false teachers'- there is nothing in this letter condemning homosexuality, nor are these Jesus's own words.

The mention of Sodom and Gomorrah is part of a list of Old Testament punishments by God against bad behavior

And what pray tell is bad behavior ? The new testemant and the old T has a list of what is deemed bad behavior, and the whole book is either believed or it isn't when reading it.

really- you really want to go into what the Old Testament deems 'bad behavior'? Do you really believe that eating oysters is bad behavior? Or that women wearing pants is bad behavior?

Jesus said to obey the commandments- that seems like pretty sound and straightforward to me.

16Someone came to Jesus with this question: “Teacher,f what good deed must I do to have eternal life?”

17“Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keepg the commandments.”

18“Which ones?” the man asked.

And Jesus replied: “‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. 19Honor your father and mother. Love your neighbor as yourself.’h”

Why are you placing words into my mouth, when I have not said to you what I think the interpretation of bad behavior is within the text, and it appears that you don't either in the way that you try and run everything together for the sake of your twisted argument.

You asked me what I thought was bad behavior- and you said that everything described in the NT and OT as bad behavior is either believed or isn't- which is it?

The Old Testament says that eating shellfish is a sin. The OT says that it is a sin for women to wear men's clothing. Among other rather archaic sins.

So I suggested the commandments as guidance- just as Jesus did:

16Someone came to Jesus with this question: “Teacher,f what good deed must I do to have eternal life?”

17“Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keepg the commandments.”

18“Which ones?” the man asked.

And Jesus replied: “‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. 19Honor your father and mother. Love your neighbor as yourself.’h”

 

[beagle9]

It is a huge problem that many of the justices didn't take into consideration when granting rights and privileges by law for some, but then not realizing that there is a huge chance that there are many whom may be amongst a group that would abuse those rights and privileges granted unto them, in order to then abuse another or even hundreds of thousands with if they can get away with it.

You are maddeningly both overly broad and vague.

What are you talking about?

Are you talking about the justices saying that we all have the individual right to own guns- and thereby there would be those that would abuse those priveleges in order to abuse others?

Or what?

You make these absurdly broad and vague accusations- and then don't back them with anything.

The main thing is to keep everything as best you can in context, where as we aren't talking about guns are we ?