Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Paperman299]

But if 82% would not go along with that plan (a number which surely includes homosexuals), then that's evidence churches WON'T be forced to do ceremonies they object to, not that they WILL be, isn't it?

No, unfortunately, no it isn't.

A majority in all the states currently believing erroneously that they must allow gay-lifestyle marraige against their will enacted laws limiting marriage to one man/one woman. And still they were legally-forced to accept (not that they have to) that which is repugnant to the majority.

The poll is still the kind of evidence I stated it was. A percentage of 82% saying "no" is evidence people won't force churches to do something churches don't want to do.

Your new evidence is that there are other people who would prefer equal marriage was not a legal reality, but this is irrelevant to what may actually happen with regards to religious freedom. You haven't even given evidence that a majority of people opposing equal marriage actually believe churches will be forced to conduct religious marriage ceremonies for same-sex partners, as you do. AND EVEN IF THEY DID, your position would still be no stronger than before. Evidence people are afraid something will happen is not evidence it will happen; if it were, wouldn't America have been ravaged by SARS, Avian influenza, swine flu, AND Ebola by now?

Heard the other day that in some state there is an army veteran from the Afghan conflict, who wanted a statue of a soldier kneeling down at a cross in a military or city/government run cemetery to now go, and why was this ? It was of course none other than it offended him (poor wittle tang), so next he and some organization sued the city over it for around 2 mil I think... I saw this report on Fox news the other day, so I just had to stop in front of the TV to listen up a sec. and just to hear another piece of Christianity being attacked yet again in this nation.

As Sil says over and over again that the LGBT is an organization/cult/activist group right ? Do you think that any of this stuff will stop just because you and a few others in here say so ? ROTFLMBO.

Was it removed from a church? No?

The statue was on public grounds. What you are construing as an "attack" was actually a scaling-back of religion's wider influence.

Just think of it this way: right now, religion in America is like the British colonial empire. It's stretched out into all these places claiming it deserves to be there. And now we're seeing that power ebb, but it doesn't mean this ends with India taking over England. India doesn't even want to take over England. This ends with England being back inside England, period, acknowledgements, about the author.

 

[Skylar]

There is absolutely no evidence.

The shrill intensity and verbosity of the anti marriage equality folks merely demonstrates the growing awareness (and acceptance) they have lost.

You kinda get that vibe, dontcha? They're already preparing for what they imagine is the next fight, as they clearly didn't do so well in this one.

The obvious problem being......there prepping the ground in the wrong place.

Since not a single marriage of two fags will ever be on the same level as mine, you can't lose to second class people.

And you feel free to believe that. No one really gives a shit. Gays and lesbians will continue to get married and enjoy the privileges and protections of the law, raise their families and go about their lives.

Sounds like a win-win to me.

They will still be second class. Feel free to belive they won't but no one except faggots give a shit about what you think.

Whatever. You believe whatever makes you comfortable. And gays get the legal recognition and protection that they want.

Everyone wins!

 

[pillars]

Government should not interfere with the free practice of religion according to the dictates of one's conscience. Churches should not be forced to marry gay couples against their will. However, that doesn't mean that gay marriage should not be legal, it should.

 

[Skylar]

I am quite sure about, and rwheathengamer does not understand that in the religious sphere, under our Constitution, the churches will easily withstand any assault trying to make them marry people they don't want to marry.

Well grab the brake lever on the run away train then, and slow that assault wagon down already, but you can't slow it down either can you, so just keep on jabbering like the rest of us I guess...LOL

Dude, what 'assault'? There are zero cases of churches ever being forced to perform a wedding they didn't want to.

You're fear mongering.

The assault on Christianity in this nation right ?

No. There is no assault on Christianity in this country. Nor is requiring someone to follow the same law that everyone else follows an attack, assault, rape, romp, ass kicking, or any other colorfully violent description you may wish to apply.

You're not David Bowie. This isn't the alamo. You're just being a little melodramatic.

Nobody is requiring anyone else to believe in and/or to abide by what one believes in, but that is the way you want to play it here. It really is a clever way in which you and others attack the Christians by the ways in which you use here, so let's chalk this one up as just another attack, but this time it was being conducted by you. I mean hey you just conducted yourself in a disingenuous manor, and we see right into the core of the machine in which you all are running now. Got anymore tactics to be exposed so easily ?

Applying the law the same to Christians the same way you do everyone else isn't 'attacking Christians'. As Christians aren't exempt from the law.

If you want to do business publicly, you're required to meet minimum standards of conduct with your customers. They must be treated fairly and equally.

That's not unreasonable. And that's not an 'attack on Christianity', Mr. Bowie.

 

[Skylar]

Government should not interfere with the free practice of religion according to the dictates of one's conscience. Churches should not be forced to marry gay couples against their will. However, that doesn't mean that gay marriage should not be legal, it should.

ANd no one, in 660 pages, has argued that churches should be required to perform gay weddings.

This thread is mostly about addressing the hysteria of the right wing in their belief that they will. Despite zero evidence to support such a conclusion.

 

[pillars]

A church isn't a business. It's a faith-based organization with constitutional protections that do not apply to businesses.

 

[pillars]

This thread is mostly about addressing the hysteria of the right wing in their belief that they will. Despite zero evidence to support such a conclusion.

You know what's crazy is the thought that a gay couple would want to celebrate one of the happiest days of their life being married by a religion that thinks they are subhuman. I lulz at that all the time. Like, do you really think gay people are breaking down the doors of your local church to get married there? Churches/pastors already make individual determinations on who can get married there with straight couples. Most pastors won't marry a couple that doesn't fulfill specific conditions (premarital counseling, member of the congregation, etc.).

 

[Skylar]

Reality check. You've already been around when it changed. A church is nothing more, legally speaking, than a congregation of individual christians. Individual christians have already been successfully sued as bakers/florists/photographers by the cult of LGBT. Their crusade has already forced the faithful to abdicate their core edicts and promote homosexual cultural spread forbidden to be done by them under punishment of eternal damnation as explained in Jude 1 of the New Testament. That's a done deal.

To make that leap to a congregation of individual christians (a church) is a matter of filing the paperwork. Within one calendar month of the LGBT cult gaining any federal mandate to change marriage from what it is now, a state-defined privelege/child formative environment incentive program into a "right" (alternative sexual lifestyles free-for-all...the kids be damned), you will see a lawsuit filed against a church, citing the lawsuits against individual christians as precedents, and you will see that lawsuit go to the Supreme Court in your lifetime. The Supreme Court will have a hellof a time saying no to something they've said "yes" to in the case they will be deciding this year. Ginsburg will be saying again something like gay marriage is like nonfat milk, it doesn't enjoy the richness of being allowed in churches!" And BINGO, christianity will be dead.

If a secular lifestyle cult can order the faithful to abandon their religion legally, then religion is dead unless the faithful practice civil disobedience. But if they do, they could lose everything they have and even wind up in jail. Yes, there will be a day if a church refuses to marry a gay "situation" (there will be gay polygamists by then..don't laugh...I actually know some...), the pastor or others involved in the refusal may even be sent to jail. That will be a long time off. But the lawsuits will come the day after the ink is dry on this year's Big Gay Decision.

People like Skylar don't seem to get that if other things change, so can laws that exempt churches. I'm not claiming that it is guaranteed. I'm claiming that if/when it happens, that's how it wil be approached.

Again, for 20th times....you're claiming that churches most certainly WILL be required to accommodate gay weddings. Yet when I ask you for the evidence of this, the results are always the same:

Jack shit.

For the 20th time, I'm claiming that when it happens, that's how I say it wil come about.

You're assuming its going to happen. And you can't factually establish that it will, or even show us evidence that indicates its likely. You simply believe.

Um, so?

You seem to be saying it never will. The only thing that never will happen is fags being normal

I'm saying that there is no indication that it will ever happen. No support publicly, legislatively or judicially, with churches explicitly exempted from PA laws, PA laws applying only to businesses...which churches aren't.

You insist it certainly will happen. But when I ask you to show me the evidence to support your conclusion, you always provide the same thing:

Jack shit.

 

[Conservative65]

There is absolutely no evidence.

The shrill intensity and verbosity of the anti marriage equality folks merely demonstrates the growing awareness (and acceptance) they have lost.

You kinda get that vibe, dontcha? They're already preparing for what they imagine is the next fight, as they clearly didn't do so well in this one.

The obvious problem being......there prepping the ground in the wrong place.

Since not a single marriage of two fags will ever be on the same level as mine, you can't lose to second class people.

And you feel free to believe that. No one really gives a shit. Gays and lesbians will continue to get married and enjoy the privileges and protections of the law, raise their families and go about their lives.

Sounds like a win-win to me.

They will still be second class. Feel free to belive they won't but no one except faggots give a shit about what you think.

Second class on to your far right social con ilk, a small minority in America now.

Keep it up, you will be second class to 250 million Americans.

Still second class.

I'll never be second class behind the 250 you reference.

 

[Conservative65]

There is absolutely no evidence.

The shrill intensity and verbosity of the anti marriage equality folks merely demonstrates the growing awareness (and acceptance) they have lost.

You kinda get that vibe, dontcha? They're already preparing for what they imagine is the next fight, as they clearly didn't do so well in this one.

The obvious problem being......there prepping the ground in the wrong place.

Since not a single marriage of two fags will ever be on the same level as mine, you can't lose to second class people.

And you feel free to believe that. No one really gives a shit. Gays and lesbians will continue to get married and enjoy the privileges and protections of the law, raise their families and go about their lives.

Sounds like a win-win to me.

They will still be second class. Feel free to belive they won't but no one except faggots give a shit about what you think.

Whatever. You believe whatever makes you comfortable. And gays get the legal recognition and protection that they want.

Everyone wins!

I believe what's true. The legal recognition doesn't equate to being on the same level as normal heterosexuals.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You kinda get that vibe, dontcha? They're already preparing for what they imagine is the next fight, as they clearly didn't do so well in this one.

The obvious problem being......there prepping the ground in the wrong place.

Since not a single marriage of two fags will ever be on the same level as mine, you can't lose to second class people.

And you feel free to believe that. No one really gives a shit. Gays and lesbians will continue to get married and enjoy the privileges and protections of the law, raise their families and go about their lives.

Sounds like a win-win to me.

They will still be second class. Feel free to belive they won't but no one except faggots give a shit about what you think.

Whatever. You believe whatever makes you comfortable. And gays get the legal recognition and protection that they want.

Everyone wins!

I believe what's true. The legal recognition doesn't equate to being on the same level as normal heterosexuals.

Normal heterosexuals? I've yet to meet ones of those. I know a lot of crazy fucker heterosexuals though.

 

[Conservative65]

Well grab the brake lever on the run away train then, and slow that assault wagon down already, but you can't slow it down either can you, so just keep on jabbering like the rest of us I guess...LOL

Dude, what 'assault'? There are zero cases of churches ever being forced to perform a wedding they didn't want to.

You're fear mongering.

The assault on Christianity in this nation right ?

No. There is no assault on Christianity in this country. Nor is requiring someone to follow the same law that everyone else follows an attack, assault, rape, romp, ass kicking, or any other colorfully violent description you may wish to apply.

You're not David Bowie. This isn't the alamo. You're just being a little melodramatic.

Nobody is requiring anyone else to believe in and/or to abide by what one believes in, but that is the way you want to play it here. It really is a clever way in which you and others attack the Christians by the ways in which you use here, so let's chalk this one up as just another attack, but this time it was being conducted by you. I mean hey you just conducted yourself in a disingenuous manor, and we see right into the core of the machine in which you all are running now. Got anymore tactics to be exposed so easily ?

Applying the law the same to Christians the same way you do everyone else isn't 'attacking Christians'. As Christians aren't exempt from the law.

If you want to do business publicly, you're required to meet minimum standards of conduct with your customers. They must be treated fairly and equally.

That's not unreasonable. And that's not an 'attack on Christianity', Mr. Bowie.

13 Gay Bakeries Refuse to Make Traditional Marriage Cake With the Message Gay Marriage Is Wrong
When should these homos be expected to bake a cake or are they exempt?

If these homos want to do business publicly, they're required to do the same.

 

[Conservative65]

Since not a single marriage of two fags will ever be on the same level as mine, you can't lose to second class people.

And you feel free to believe that. No one really gives a shit. Gays and lesbians will continue to get married and enjoy the privileges and protections of the law, raise their families and go about their lives.

Sounds like a win-win to me.

They will still be second class. Feel free to belive they won't but no one except faggots give a shit about what you think.

Whatever. You believe whatever makes you comfortable. And gays get the legal recognition and protection that they want.

Everyone wins!

I believe what's true. The legal recognition doesn't equate to being on the same level as normal heterosexuals.

Normal heterosexuals? I've yet to meet ones of those. I know a lot of crazy fucker heterosexuals though.

Normal heterosexuals. A man that likes women and vice versa. Anything else is abnormal.

 

[Skylar]

Dude, what 'assault'? There are zero cases of churches ever being forced to perform a wedding they didn't want to.

You're fear mongering.

The assault on Christianity in this nation right ?

No. There is no assault on Christianity in this country. Nor is requiring someone to follow the same law that everyone else follows an attack, assault, rape, romp, ass kicking, or any other colorfully violent description you may wish to apply.

You're not David Bowie. This isn't the alamo. You're just being a little melodramatic.

Nobody is requiring anyone else to believe in and/or to abide by what one believes in, but that is the way you want to play it here. It really is a clever way in which you and others attack the Christians by the ways in which you use here, so let's chalk this one up as just another attack, but this time it was being conducted by you. I mean hey you just conducted yourself in a disingenuous manor, and we see right into the core of the machine in which you all are running now. Got anymore tactics to be exposed so easily ?

Applying the law the same to Christians the same way you do everyone else isn't 'attacking Christians'. As Christians aren't exempt from the law.

If you want to do business publicly, you're required to meet minimum standards of conduct with your customers. They must be treated fairly and equally.

That's not unreasonable. And that's not an 'attack on Christianity', Mr. Bowie.

13 Gay Bakeries Refuse to Make Traditional Marriage Cake With the Message Gay Marriage Is Wrong
When should these homos be expected to bake a cake or are they exempt?

If these homos want to do business publicly, they're required to do the same.

But they will make the cake. And that's the hanging point...not the speech on the cake. But the cake itself. I'll give any baker a pass on speech. But on selling your signature product? Nope.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Dude, what 'assault'? There are zero cases of churches ever being forced to perform a wedding they didn't want to.

You're fear mongering.

The assault on Christianity in this nation right ?

No. There is no assault on Christianity in this country. Nor is requiring someone to follow the same law that everyone else follows an attack, assault, rape, romp, ass kicking, or any other colorfully violent description you may wish to apply.

You're not David Bowie. This isn't the alamo. You're just being a little melodramatic.

Nobody is requiring anyone else to believe in and/or to abide by what one believes in, but that is the way you want to play it here. It really is a clever way in which you and others attack the Christians by the ways in which you use here, so let's chalk this one up as just another attack, but this time it was being conducted by you. I mean hey you just conducted yourself in a disingenuous manor, and we see right into the core of the machine in which you all are running now. Got anymore tactics to be exposed so easily ?

Applying the law the same to Christians the same way you do everyone else isn't 'attacking Christians'. As Christians aren't exempt from the law.

If you want to do business publicly, you're required to meet minimum standards of conduct with your customers. They must be treated fairly and equally.

That's not unreasonable. And that's not an 'attack on Christianity', Mr. Bowie.

13 Gay Bakeries Refuse to Make Traditional Marriage Cake With the Message Gay Marriage Is Wrong
When should these homos be expected to bake a cake or are they exempt?

If these homos want to do business publicly, they're required to do the same.

Bake the cake, ignore the message, that he can do on his own.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

And you feel free to believe that. No one really gives a shit. Gays and lesbians will continue to get married and enjoy the privileges and protections of the law, raise their families and go about their lives.

Sounds like a win-win to me.

They will still be second class. Feel free to belive they won't but no one except faggots give a shit about what you think.

Whatever. You believe whatever makes you comfortable. And gays get the legal recognition and protection that they want.

Everyone wins!

I believe what's true. The legal recognition doesn't equate to being on the same level as normal heterosexuals.

Normal heterosexuals? I've yet to meet ones of those. I know a lot of crazy fucker heterosexuals though.

Normal heterosexuals. A man that likes women and vice versa. Anything else is abnormal.

By chance, do you no what abnormal means? Left-handed people are abnormal for instance.

 

[pillars]

I believe what's true. The legal recognition doesn't equate to being on the same level as normal heterosexuals.

In your opinion, which you are entitled to hold. What matters is to give people legal equality, not try and force people to accept that which they don't agree with. No one should care what opinion you hold, as long as you follow the law.

 

[Conservative65]

I believe what's true. The legal recognition doesn't equate to being on the same level as normal heterosexuals.

In your opinion, which you are entitled to hold. What matters is to give people legal equality, not try and force people to accept that which they don't agree with. No one should care what opinion you hold, as long as you follow the law.

Never said anyone had to agree including you.

I was following he law of my State which some activist, faggot friendly judge decided to step beyond his bounds and overturn. Unlike him, the law was made by a legislature that was elected by the people of the State. Seems you think an appointed member of the government should have more power than those elected by the people.

 

[Conservative65]

They will still be second class. Feel free to belive they won't but no one except faggots give a shit about what you think.

Whatever. You believe whatever makes you comfortable. And gays get the legal recognition and protection that they want.

Everyone wins!

I believe what's true. The legal recognition doesn't equate to being on the same level as normal heterosexuals.

Normal heterosexuals? I've yet to meet ones of those. I know a lot of crazy fucker heterosexuals though.

Normal heterosexuals. A man that likes women and vice versa. Anything else is abnormal.

By chance, do you no what abnormal means? Left-handed people are abnormal for instance.

I don't equate those in the numerical minority as abnormal because they have a fewer number. It's based on action.

 

[pillars]

I was following he law of my State which some activist, faggot friendly judge decided to step beyond his bounds and overturn. Unlike him, the law was made by a legislature that was elected by the people of the State. Seems you think an appointed member of the government should have more power than those elected by the people.

I think that a role of the courts is to test legislation against the constitution, which is the system set up by the founding fathers. Just because the majority enacts a law does not mean that the law is constitutional. That's what the term equal protection means...it helps to prevent tyranny of the majority against the minority.

Say you were a member of a minority belief system...not Christianity. Wouldn't you want that legal protection for you to practice your beliefs, according to the dictates of your conscience?