Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[bendog]

Is there a huge outbreak of churches being sued? I mean if a church "welcomes" all, but then refuses to marry a same sex couple, I can see an issue. But, I just don't see a horde of querr's lining up to sue the Pope or Mormons on this.

 

[GreenBean]

Notice how the thread went to "Oh my, the gays are gonna tell our churches what to do" to "Gays are perverts."

That's pretty much why public opinion turned the way it did. Most people don't like bullies, and it's pretty clear who's doing the bullying on this issue. Really, of all the GLBT people wanting to get married, a very small % would want anything to do with the church of Phil Robertson.

Good Point Benji - An important aspect of the Jennings [Gay} strategy involves linking the Gay Agenda to universal values that all members of society share. Basically to latch onto tolerance, diversity, safety, and peaceful coexistence amongst children of many variations - which is a good thing. It's a tactic referred to as Framing. From this simple dirt path, they seek to build a super-highway into the minds of our youth. Anybody who objected to the Gay Agendas planned indoctrination would be heretofore be labeled a heartless bully, a homophobic demon with a complete disregard for children and students.


This framing short-circuited their arguments [heterosexuals] and left them back-pedaling from day one, .... [N]o one could speak up against our frame and say, Why, yes, I do think students should kill themselves , This allowed us to set the terms for debate. - Kevin Jennings

An important goal of the framing campaign, as well as the Gay Agenda in general according to Jennings, is that eventually when normal straight people hear that someone is promoting homosexuality, they would say -Yeah, who cares? - because they would not necessarily equate homosexuality with what it really is - evil, bad, devious and in opposition to common human morality . Gay Agenda in Public Schools

 

[koshergrl]

Very Good SeaWytch - you really put the old thinking cap on for that one - just hope it isn't too tight.

The papers you cited - which I am somewhat familiar with, present one theory - and a semi-plausible one at that . The preposition being that somehow Males who molest other males should not be considered honosexual even though those males predominantly and exclusively attack males [under age] because it makes all Gays look bad ... correct me if I'm wrong - because I don't have the time at the moment to scour through the articles and tear them apart - I'll be back a tad later to check on your progress . Regards

PS: Regarding your other post that followed that - kindly cease and desist your Racist Tripe - Attempting to link African Americans to your silly little sexual agenda - You're a Racist

I've seen this idea before, and it's utter bullshit. You're right, the only basis for it is the fact that gays don't want it known that so many of them are child molesters.

Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.

Some homosexual activists defend the historic connection between homosexuality and pedophilia: Such activists consider the defense of "boy-lovers" to be a legitimate gay rights issue.

A study of 457 male sex offenders against children in Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy found that "approximately one-third of these sexual offenders directed their sexual activity against males."

"The proportional prevalence of offenders against male children in this group of 457 offenders against children was 36 percent." See also, Kurt Freund, et al., "Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, and Erotic Age Preference," "Approximately one-third of these individuals had victimized boys and two-thirds had victimized girls. This finding is consistent with the proportions reported in two earlier studies,"

"Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality," Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy"

The Archives of Sexual Behavior : "

One of the most salient findings of this study is that 46 percent of homosexual men and 22 percent of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender. This contrasts to only 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of heterosexual women reporting having been molested by a person of the same gender."

Child molestation and pedophilia occur far more commonly among homosexuals than among heterosexuals on a per capita basis, according to a new study.

Of course they are. The homo lobby likes to lie about this, which combined with their hysterical pro-abortion stance, proves that child safety/life is far, far down on their list of priorities. They're fine with sacrificing the lives and well being of children to their depraved lifestyle.

 

[GreenBean]

Your numbers are bullshit. Get over it.

If that's what you believe than I would like to see you prove it .
Your simple minded drive by comments prove nothing other than your ignorance of reality.


Put Up or Shut Up[/SIZE][/B]

The assertion, Greenbean, is yours, and you have failed to prove it.

NYC does not have to disprove your assertion.

The assertion is not mine - it is that of basic science. follow the links little fella

 

[koshergrl]

Notice how the thread went to "Oh my, the gays are gonna tell our churches what to do" to "Gays are perverts."

That's pretty much why public opinion turned the way it did. Most people don't like bullies, and it's pretty clear who's doing the bullying on this issue. Really, of all the GLBT people wanting to get married, a very small % would want anything to do with the church of Phil Robertson.

People don't like people who try to impinge upon their religious liberty. Queers will find they're hated much less when they stop trying to force everybody to accommodate their perversions.

 

[bendog]

Notice how the thread went to "Oh my, the gays are gonna tell our churches what to do" to "Gays are perverts."

That's pretty much why public opinion turned the way it did. Most people don't like bullies, and it's pretty clear who's doing the bullying on this issue. Really, of all the GLBT people wanting to get married, a very small % would want anything to do with the church of Phil Robertson.

People don't like people who try to impinge upon their religious liberty. Queers will find they're hated much less when they stop trying to force everybody to accommodate their perversions.

KG, I doubt any gay people care how your marriage works. I certainly don't. No hard feelings intended. But I'm pretty sure gays are leaving me alone, and I'm content to let them be as well.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[

A study of 457 male sex offenders against children in Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy found that "approximately one-third of these sexual offenders directed their sexual activity against males."

So by 2 to 1, sex offenses against children are heterosexual.

Okay...and?

btw, shouldn't you be counting all those females who have sex with underage males??????

 

[koshergrl]

If that's what you believe than I would like to see you prove it .
Your simple minded drive by comments prove nothing other than your ignorance of reality.


Put Up or Shut Up[/SIZE][/B]

The assertion, Greenbean, is yours, and you have failed to prove it.

NYC does not have to disprove your assertion.

The assertion is not mine - it is that of basic science. follow the links little fella

He proved it. If NYC contests the numbers, then he needs to prove they are wrong.

Otherwise, he fails.

Which he is used to. I'm sure he started groaning the minute jake started *helping*.

 

[Seawytch]

So far here are the high lights based on the far left comments:

1) They believe "Marriage" is a Constitutional right - Of curse it is not.

Actually, what it is is a Fundamental Right...affirmed by the SCOTUS on more than a dozen occasions.

2) They believe Marriage is not connected to religion. - Marriage is a product of religion now matter how they want t spin it.

Civil marriage is not. Since you can get a marriage license from a government agency and then be married by a civil servant, not a religious leader, civil marriage has nothing to do with religion no matter how you spin it.

3) They believe that the churches should be forced into marrying same sex couples. So much for the whole "separation of church and state".

No, "they" do not. Churches and religions will change because of public opinion, not government intervention. No church will ever be forced by the government, in the United States, to perform a wedding ceremony against the tenants of their faith. This is an absolute with no possible argument. How do I know? Because of all the churches that were forced to perform interfaith or interracial marriages. All zero of them.

4) The far left is upset because the can not get to the churches money. Although it was a paranoid LBJ that banned churches from being able to donate to political campaigns in fear of losing to a Catholic.

Okay, yeah...that does kind of piss me off, the tax exemption thing...especially since they can get even more "cash and prizes" thanks to "faith based initiatives" and so many of them politic from the pew. I don't mind the little parishes and small churches that are just churches having a tax exempt status, but these big mega billion dollar mega churches and these TV evangelicals...I think they should be taxed all the way to hell and back.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drMMBE6KRbI"]Would Jesus Wear a Rolex?[/ame]

Once again the far left does not deserve to be in power and should never be in power.

Get used to saying President Hillary Clinton

 

[Seawytch]

[

A study of 457 male sex offenders against children in Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy found that "approximately one-third of these sexual offenders directed their sexual activity against males."

So by 2 to 1, sex offenses against children are heterosexual.

Okay...and?

btw, shouldn't you be counting all those females who have sex with underage males??????

No, what we should be doing is separating statutory rape from pedophilia.

 

[Seawytch]

Notice how the thread went to "Oh my, the gays are gonna tell our churches what to do" to "Gays are perverts."

That's pretty much why public opinion turned the way it did. Most people don't like bullies, and it's pretty clear who's doing the bullying on this issue. Really, of all the GLBT people wanting to get married, a very small % would want anything to do with the church of Phil Robertson.

People don't like people who try to impinge upon their religious liberty. Queers will find they're hated much less when they stop trying to force everybody to accommodate their perversions.

Your religious liberty is not being infringed upon.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The assertion, Greenbean, is yours, and you have failed to prove it.

NYC does not have to disprove your assertion.

Not only that, I disproved it already. Actually, I didn't, social science did a long time ago. It's only desperate homophobes in the last gasps of their fight against equality that still cling to it.

I will pay for a one way trip to uganda for you

I certainly believe that some on the social con so-called Christain far right believe in genital mutilation to maintain a masculinist society.

Your comment has nothing to do with homosexual marriages though.

 

[Kondor3]

Notice how the thread went to "Oh my, the gays are gonna tell our churches what to do" to "Gays are perverts."...

That's inevitable.

Within the universe of those churches which refuse to conduct Homosexual Unions...

The primary objection is the sinful, perverse nature of homosexuality...

One cannot competently nor comprehensively discuss such refusals, nor contemplate statutory overriding of such refusals, without clearly identifying the objection itself...

Q.E.D.

And, as a thread progresses, it is appropriate to restate the objection, from time to time, as we see here...

The objection being that homosexuality and its practitioners are viewed by many religious and civic authorities, and by history itself in example after example, as unnatural, perverse, sinful, unclean, and an aberration in the eyes of God, Nature and Man...

No big deal...

Just restating the obvious, from time to time, as a necessary housekeeping chore...

Your level of comfort with that restatement is immaterial to the task at hand...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your numbers are bullshit. Get over it.

Of course they are because Green Bean isn't interested in knowing the actual facts he's just interested in painting gays as child molesters. Tiresome canard of homophobes.

He doesn't understand that men that molest boys are not gay, but pedophiles.

According to Dr. Fred Berlin, a Johns Hopkins University professor who founded the National Institute for the Study, Prevention and Treatment of Sexual Trauma in Baltimore, Md., pedophilia is a distinct sexual orientation marked by persistent, sometimes exclusive, attraction to prepubescent children. ​

Pedophiles are attracted to children. That they are children matters more than their gender. The sex of victim has more to do with access .

This is from a study by John Jay University commissioned after the Catholic priest sex abuse scandal.

"What we are suggesting is that the idea of sexual identity be separated from the problem of sexual abuse. At this point, we do not find a connection between homosexual identity and the increased likelihood of subsequent abuse from the data that we have right now."​

That's homosexual propaganda. There isn't an iota of evidence to support it.

Since you can't disprove the study's conclusion, you can slink off.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So, have we figured out yet, that churches should not be forced to commit sinful acts, by marrying homosexuals - whom many churches consider to be unnatural, perverse, unclean, sinful and abhorrent individuals, practicing unnatural, perverse, unclean, sinful and abhorrent sexual behaviors, and manifesting an unnatural, perverse, unclean, sinful and abhorrent lifestyle - aberrations in the sight of God, Nature and Man?

As long as churches do not hold out publicly their fee-drivn wedding services. If they do, then contempt of court, loss of tax-exempt status, and massive fines will do the trick.

 

[GreenBean]

The assertion, Greenbean, is yours, and you have failed to prove it.

NYC does not have to disprove your assertion.

The assertion is not mine - it is that of basic science. follow the links little fella

He proved it. If NYC contests the numbers, then he needs to prove they are wrong.

Otherwise, he fails.

Which he is used to. I'm sure he started groaning the minute jake started *helping*.

Thanks [I Think ]

 

[JakeStarkey]

Someone ignorantly wrote, the government hopefully "finds new and interesting and fun ways at-law to re-cast homosexuality as immoral and detrimental to society and the good working order of the Republic". Neither the Bible nor a false natural morality have standing with the courts.

 

[Seawytch]

Notice how the thread went to "Oh my, the gays are gonna tell our churches what to do" to "Gays are perverts."

That's pretty much why public opinion turned the way it did. Most people don't like bullies, and it's pretty clear who's doing the bullying on this issue. Really, of all the GLBT people wanting to get married, a very small % would want anything to do with the church of Phil Robertson.

That's because the the thread's premise is bovine feces. Churches can't be forced to perform a ceremony that goes against the tenants of their faith in the United States of America so the thread was a fail from the get-go. All their arguments have failed.

I just watched "The Case Against 8" last night on HBO and every single one of the arguments against marriage equality was shot down with stunning precision in that case. The people they brought in to defend Prop 8 looked pathetic...and they didn't even try the "gays as molesters" bullshit.

 

[bendog]

Notice how the thread went to "Oh my, the gays are gonna tell our churches what to do" to "Gays are perverts."...

That's inevitable.

Within the universe of those churches which refuse to conduct Homosexual Unions...

The primary objection is the sinful, perverse nature of homosexuality...

One cannot competently nor comprehensively discuss such refusals, and contemplate statutory overriding of such refusals, without clearly identifying the objection itself...

And refreshing the objection, from time to time, as a thread progresses...

Q.E.D.

Well, the OP was whether YOUR church would be forced to marry "the perverts" (your view)? So far, I don't see any real danger to y'all on this. Unless, as Jake pts out, you hold open your church to make money from gays.

 

[GreenBean]

Of course they are because Green Bean isn't interested in knowing the actual facts he's just interested in painting gays as child molesters. Tiresome canard of homophobes.

He doesn't understand that men that molest boys are not gay, but pedophiles.

According to Dr. Fred Berlin, a Johns Hopkins University professor who founded the National Institute for the Study, Prevention and Treatment of Sexual Trauma in Baltimore, Md., pedophilia is a distinct sexual orientation marked by persistent, sometimes exclusive, attraction to prepubescent children. ​

Pedophiles are attracted to children. That they are children matters more than their gender. The sex of victim has more to do with access .

This is from a study by John Jay University commissioned after the Catholic priest sex abuse scandal.

"What we are suggesting is that the idea of sexual identity be separated from the problem of sexual abuse. At this point, we do not find a connection between homosexual identity and the increased likelihood of subsequent abuse from the data that we have right now."​

That's homosexual propaganda. There isn't an iota of evidence to support it.

Since you can't disprove the study's conclusion, you can slink off.

It's been done Jake - IT's been done .... Again and Again and Again ... The Studies conclusion has been thoroughly debunked - beyond even being debateable - did you even read it ???? I sincerely doubt that you did - you just saw the headline and thought it was something that would supportt your warped little fuzzy logic. OY !