Should people who chose to not vaccinate get preference?

[Circe]

No, just in general.

If we are talking about rationing care, which I think is still hypothetical, the ability for someone to survive is a factor in who gets limited resources. Therefore, since unvaccinated don’t have good or outcomes, it is conceivable they could be untreated in a situation of rationing care.

No, I don't think covid in unvaccinated people is necessarily a bad outcome! Many will have asymptomatic or mild disease, after all, just as most do. Besides, it's only a case of nursing care and oxygen (they need to stop with the respirators, IMO) --- they don't HAVE a treatment for Covid, apparently, so I don't know why we take any notice of these worthless docs anyway, frankly. People die just as well inside as outside the hospital, maybe more inside with the respirators.

 

[colfax_m]

Might be closer than you think -- I read today that one state (Florida?) has zero pediatric ICU beds open now. I am in fact expecting a bad panic from this surge by Delta as soon as the schools open and the kids infect each other and all the adults (vaccinated and not, because the vaccine doesn't work) and then what? Good point you are making --- we should watch what happens to prioritization if hospitals really do crash. Will they prioritize treatment to the people who were good little sheep and took the vaccine that doesn't work?

I doubt it'll come to that, these things always have a way of working themselves out.

It's struck me as strange that the people who don't trust medicine to take a vaccine that the doctors recommend are willing to show up to the hospital staffed by those same doctors whose recommendations they disregard.

 

[Circe]

Florida has had to ask people to not water their lawns or wash their cars, because they have to save water. Not because of a water shortage, but because the liquid oxygen used to purify water is needed by the hospitals to treat COVID patients.

Wait, that makes no sense: you don't need potable water to wash cars or water the lawns!!

I suppose it all has to be purified in case someone drinks out of the hose, forget I said anything.

 

[badbobTexas]

The unvaccinated should be put behind the vaccinated in the Covid wards, and the insurance companies should be exempt from funding them.

 

[gipper]

Right, it's looking like Delta is an equal-opportunity infector.

The vaccines never did prevent you from getting infected or infecting others. Now they tell us we need booster shots every so many months. This indicates the vax isn’t very effective. Yet the powers-that-be want to impose vaccine passports. It’s madness in the land of the free.

 

[Circe]

It is also used when ER's are overloaded.

That is exactly what this thread is about.

"In medicine, triage (/ˈtriːɑːʒ, triˈɑːʒ/) is a process done when the immediate demand for medical resources exceeds their availability. It is the process of assigning priority to patients' treatments based on the severity of their condition, the urgency of them to receive immediate treatment, and their likelihood of recovery with and without treatment. This rations patient treatment efficiently when resources are insufficient for all to be treated immediately; influencing the order and priority of emergency treatment, emergency transport, or transport destination for the patient. "

Okay, I agree it could come up. God forbid. It already has in India and earlier in Italy, as we know. So........ what is the relevance of overcrowded emergency rooms to whether sick people were previously vaccinated or not? I'm really not seeing your point here. Is this like wanting to punish people for not doing what you told them to, or something?

 

[marvin martian]

The unvaccinated should be put behind the vaccinated in the Covid wards, and the insurance companies should be exempt from funding them.

Why do you embrace Nazism so eagerly? This is what the Third Reich did with it's "undesirables".

 

[Circe]

The vaccines never did prevent you from getting infected or infecting others. Now they tell us we need booster shots every so many months. This indicates the vax isn’t very effective. Yet the powers-that-be want to impose vaccine passports. It’s madness in the land of the free.

Correctomundo. We have a vaccine that doesn't work, so they get hysterical about how everybody has to quick get a shot.

Something is wrong there, what is it, what is it. . . . . .

 

[postman]

I dunno. I think it's gotta be first come, first served. I know people who couldn't shake drugs and alcohol for decades, but eventually it worked for some, and not for others. If someone has a legal right to a treatment, I don't see how we can deprive them of that just because we think it will not work as good for them as for someone else.

It's one thing if there is an unlimited supply of a treatment available, but when there is a scarcity, then it has to be rationed based on likelihood of success. If a hospital only has 5 pints of blood, and several patients in need of various quantities.

 

[Circe]

I doubt it'll come to that, these things always have a way of working themselves out.

It's struck me as strange that the people who don't trust medicine to take a vaccine that the doctors recommend are willing to show up to the hospital staffed by those same doctors whose recommendations they disregard.

Yeah, well, not being able to breathe is probably quite a motivator. And docs control the oxygen. I would much prefer we could get it freely on the open market and hire care and support, not in hospitals, but docs love to own and control everything.

 

[postman]

Everyone knows what triage is --- and it's a battlefield construct, or a disaster scene. What is the relevance here?

It happens in ER's every day.

Emergency departments around the world use different triage systems to assess the severity of incoming patients' conditions and assign treatment priorities.

National Center for Biotechnology Information › articles › PMC3021905

 

[Circe]

It's one thing if there is an unlimited supply of a treatment available, but when there is a scarcity, then it has to be rationed based on likelihood of success. If a hospital only has 5 pints of blood, and several patients in need of various quantities.

Sounds like the ethical thought experiment of the streetcar could go on either of two tracks --- one has one obese man on it and the other has five normal-weight people. Which way would you throw the switch?

I wouldn't touch that switch, is my answer.

 

[marvin martian]

Correctomundo. We have a vaccine that doesn't work, so they get hysterical about how everybody has to quick get a shot.

Something is wrong there, what is it, what is it. . . . . .

Remember when Joe Biden said "if you get vaccinated, you won't have to wear a mask anymore"? I remember.

 

[gipper]

Correctomundo. We have a vaccine that doesn't work, so they get hysterical about how everybody has to quick get a shot.

Something is wrong there, what is it, what is it. . . . . .

The fact that the elites are demanding everyone get the vax, even though the vax has limited effectiveness, seems to indicate ulterior motives. It could be about power or maybe it’s all about the money big pharma is raking in and kicking back some cash to the political class.

 

[bendog]

Yeah. . . but why are folks that refuse the vaccine also denied a place on waiting lists for organ transplants. . . that doesn't make much sense.

Organ transplants are prioritized to those who are likely to show the most benefit. And a person who gets an organ transplant cannot later be vaccinated, or if they are vaccinated, may not get as much immunity. And doctors aren't supposed to give treatments that will make people more likely to get sick.

But that's different from trying to deny a covid patient a bed or treatments for covid just because they didn't get vaccinated. And we're not near that yet. Even though in my state the major hospital has mobile units in parking garages.

 

[gipper]

Remember when Joe Biden said "if you get vaccinated, you won't have to wear a mask anymore"? I remember.

He also stated if you get the vax you won’t get the virus.

 

[postman]

Yeah. . . but why are folks that refuse the vaccine also denied a place on waiting lists for organ transplants. . . that doesn't make much sense.

Because their comorbidity makes them susceptible to COVID complications, where vaccinations serve to prevent that happening.

 

[bendog]

Remember when Joe Biden said "if you get vaccinated, you won't have to wear a mask anymore"? I remember.

well, if you'd gotten vaccinations maybe I wouldn't need this fickkjng mask. LOL

 

[MisterBeale]

Correctomundo. We have a vaccine that doesn't work, so they get hysterical about how everybody has to quick get a shot.

Something is wrong there, what is it, what is it. . . . . .

O.K. I'm going to make this pretty simple.

The title of the thread is, "Should people who chose to not vaccinate get preference?" That implies that medical services prioritize based on something other than need. . . generally, they don't.

If you have ever been to the ER. YOU KNOW, they all practice triage. If you go for a deep gash and stitches, but someone else comes in with a heart attack, it matters NOT if you were there first, the person with a stroke or heart attack is going to be seen first. This is not just a combat or disaster scenario concept, every ER in the nation practices triage.

SO? The thread is a stupid premise. The most dire cases should be seen first, regardless of the patients previous choices.

Why are you having a hard time with this?

Are you a victim of the TEE VEE propaganda too?

No one is losing out on necessary emergency care b/c of the unvaccinated. . . it is a lie.

 

[Circe]

Remember when Joe Biden said "if you get vaccinated, you won't have to wear a mask anymore"? I remember.

Shoooooooooo --- I also remember that if you get the vaccination you for sure won't get Covid!! [Sigh]
I remember when all the shutdowns were only for two weeks, that's all. That was a year and a half ago. It's like every war, always advertised as over before the leaves fall, and always take a minumum of four years, sometimes twenty or more. Government: it's a lot worse than covid.