Should Someone Receiving Welfare Be Drug Tested?

[Obiwan]

then why are the still happening??

and struck down on what grounds???

Invasion of privacy, which it is..
Why are legislature members not tested for drugs?? They claim it's an invasion of privacy.....

your position:


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA test those people over there too!!!!!

It's unconstitutional, so be it...

The only successful challenges have been based on the 4th ammendment (unreasonable search and seizure)....

The logical solution to that is simple... don't make it the basis for a criminal prosecution.

Just make agreeing to the tests a condition for receiving welfare, and it's legal...

Don't want to take the tests??? Nobody is forcing you to apply for welfare.

The only time they drug test you is when you are getting cash benefits, they don't drug test for food assistance..

They should do random tests for food stamps too, since some recipients sell them or trade them for drugs.

 

[Mac1958]

So someone tests positive and their kids suffer. More.

Yeah, maybe not. This is a cultural issue, simplistic band-aids aren't enough.
.

I guess the kids are not suffering enough by having to live with a drug addict who spends all the money we give to them on drugs, while the kids go hungry, and do without the basics of life.

Perhaps we should actually make it better for the kids, by making adoption more attractive in this country, for this countries own children. Then if drug addicted parents didn't want to get off the drugs, we could take the children and give them to people who actually wanted them. Instead of parents who deserve to be put down like a rabid dog.

So someone tests positive and their kids suffer. More.

Yeah, maybe not. This is a cultural issue, simplistic band-aids aren't enough.
.

If the crack dealer is getting the money, the kids AREN'T...

Isn't it better to make sure the money goes to the kids instead of the dealers???

How would that happen, logistically?
.

If we can keep the parents off drugs, the money is there to be spent on the kids.

But what about in the meantime? Cut off the dollars and kids suffer (even more than they already are) until Mom and/or Dad get their shit together? If they ever do? I can't do that to a kid, let alone the hundreds of thousands or millions who would suffer here.

I think we have the same goal here, but I suspect it's going to take heavier lifting. This is a cultural problem, in addition to being a legal problem and a fiscal issue.
.

Putting the kids in foster care where they can be looked after until the parents get their act together might be an option...

Then mandate rehab for the parents (along with a period of drug testing after rehab to make sure they stay clean), before taking another look at custody and any future benefits...

Screw up again, say goodbye to benefits, declare the adults unfit parents, and make other arrangements for the kids...

We need to look out for the kids, not just ignore the problem and subsidize drug dealers.

Nice to know there are other posters here who are willing to talk things through and toss out real ideas, without personal insults and name-calling.

I sure wish there were more of it here, but I'm happy to see this!
.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I'm sick to death of the little nippers hiding out behind the nursery school playground sliding board using drugs at my expense. I say, bust the little buggers and make them go to work at the steel mill, where their urine can be collected and thrown on to hot steel during the cooling off process!

 

[Disir]

Yes.

Moreover, I think anyone receiving welfare, with the exception of the old and infirmed and children should have to put in at least 20 hours of community service per week within their immediate area to help pay back the state and government for the privilege of receiving these benefits..

So, you have gathered evidence from the states that have implemented the program and measured it's cost effectiveness and success rate?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Yes.

Moreover, I think anyone receiving welfare, with the exception of the old and infirmed and children should have to put in at least 20 hours of community service per week within their immediate area to help pay back the state and government for the privilege of receiving these benefits..

Most people on food stamps work a full-time job. 2 jobs.

Fucking idiot.

He said welfare...fucking idiot.

So for today, for the purpose of this discussion, SNAP or food stamps are not welfare. What is welfare?

I suspect they mean cash assistance.

The whole point of this welfare drug test thing is to push rightwing propaganda. It's to publicize and spread a negative image of the government assistance recipient as some sort of lowlife druggie.

do you actually know anybody on welfare idiot/
or do you spend your time in the woods of upstate New York?
are you actually saying nobody on welfare uses drugs?

nobody who has all that time on their hands uses drugs, only working people?

maybe you think nobody uses drugs idiot?
why isnt it wise to ensure people living off of the taxpayers are using that money wisely and not endangering their own families? their own children???

So you seem to be supporting Big Government infringing on the privacy of law abiding citizens.

That's so damn funny, the gun lovers argument stood on its head.

 

[Obiwan]

So someone tests positive and their kids suffer. More.

Yeah, maybe not. This is a cultural issue, simplistic band-aids aren't enough.
.

I guess the kids are not suffering enough by having to live with a drug addict who spends all the money we give to them on drugs, while the kids go hungry, and do without the basics of life.

Perhaps we should actually make it better for the kids, by making adoption more attractive in this country, for this countries own children. Then if drug addicted parents didn't want to get off the drugs, we could take the children and give them to people who actually wanted them. Instead of parents who deserve to be put down like a rabid dog.

If the crack dealer is getting the money, the kids AREN'T...

Isn't it better to make sure the money goes to the kids instead of the dealers???

How would that happen, logistically?
.

If we can keep the parents off drugs, the money is there to be spent on the kids.

But what about in the meantime? Cut off the dollars and kids suffer (even more than they already are) until Mom and/or Dad get their shit together? If they ever do? I can't do that to a kid, let alone the hundreds of thousands or millions who would suffer here.

I think we have the same goal here, but I suspect it's going to take heavier lifting. This is a cultural problem, in addition to being a legal problem and a fiscal issue.
.

Putting the kids in foster care where they can be looked after until the parents get their act together might be an option...

Then mandate rehab for the parents (along with a period of drug testing after rehab to make sure they stay clean), before taking another look at custody and any future benefits...

Screw up again, say goodbye to benefits, declare the adults unfit parents, and make other arrangements for the kids...

We need to look out for the kids, not just ignore the problem and subsidize drug dealers.

Nice to know there are other posters here who are willing to talk things through and toss out real ideas, without personal insults and name-calling.

I sure wish there were more of it here, but I'm happy to see this!
.

Actually, I'm aware of judges requiring a parent to take drug tests for the court in child custody cases, so there shouldn't be a legal issue as far as custody goes.

The main thing to remember is that the kid has no control over their circumstances, so if the child is being deprived or going hungry, they are totally dependent on the system to look out for their interests...

In some instances, the best thing to do is remove the child from the situation and get them where they can be properly cared for, along with getting the parent treatment (with the goal of the parent regaining custody later if treatment is successful)...

Of course, the child could continue to receive benefits through their guardian under those circumstances...

 

[bedowin62]

Most people on food stamps work a full-time job. 2 jobs.

Fucking idiot.

He said welfare...fucking idiot.

So for today, for the purpose of this discussion, SNAP or food stamps are not welfare. What is welfare?

I suspect they mean cash assistance.

The whole point of this welfare drug test thing is to push rightwing propaganda. It's to publicize and spread a negative image of the government assistance recipient as some sort of lowlife druggie.

do you actually know anybody on welfare idiot/
or do you spend your time in the woods of upstate New York?
are you actually saying nobody on welfare uses drugs?

nobody who has all that time on their hands uses drugs, only working people?

maybe you think nobody uses drugs idiot?
why isnt it wise to ensure people living off of the taxpayers are using that money wisely and not endangering their own families? their own children???

So you seem to be supporting Big Government infringing on the privacy of law abiding citizens.

That's so damn funny, the gun lovers argument stood on its head.

YAWN

you poor loser; i will say to you the same thing i said to another smug, arrogant left-wing loser. why dont you guys know when to quit and salvage some dignity?

you are making an apples and oranges comparison. people on welfare are getting supported by the government; i.e TAXPAYERS........... it is in our interests TO SEE OUR TAX DOLLARS ARE BEING USED WISELY, and especially for the children. remember the children idiot?

now the fact that taxpayer dollars are involved is the same logic your comunity ogranizing Messiah used TO JUSTIFY STICKING HIS NOSE IN ANY NUMBER OF OTHER ISSUES; SROM SCHOOL LUNCHES TO OBAMACARE TO BANK BAILOUTS. WHO IS the REAL hypocrite here?

 

[Obiwan]

Yes.

Moreover, I think anyone receiving welfare, with the exception of the old and infirmed and children should have to put in at least 20 hours of community service per week within their immediate area to help pay back the state and government for the privilege of receiving these benefits..

So, you have gathered evidence from the states that have implemented the program and measured it's cost effectiveness and success rate?

A lot of the success would be due to the deterrent value. A lot of people would think twice about using drugs if their benefits were at risk

 

[Mac1958]

So someone tests positive and their kids suffer. More.

Yeah, maybe not. This is a cultural issue, simplistic band-aids aren't enough.
.

I guess the kids are not suffering enough by having to live with a drug addict who spends all the money we give to them on drugs, while the kids go hungry, and do without the basics of life.

Perhaps we should actually make it better for the kids, by making adoption more attractive in this country, for this countries own children. Then if drug addicted parents didn't want to get off the drugs, we could take the children and give them to people who actually wanted them. Instead of parents who deserve to be put down like a rabid dog.

How would that happen, logistically?
.

If we can keep the parents off drugs, the money is there to be spent on the kids.

But what about in the meantime? Cut off the dollars and kids suffer (even more than they already are) until Mom and/or Dad get their shit together? If they ever do? I can't do that to a kid, let alone the hundreds of thousands or millions who would suffer here.

I think we have the same goal here, but I suspect it's going to take heavier lifting. This is a cultural problem, in addition to being a legal problem and a fiscal issue.
.

Putting the kids in foster care where they can be looked after until the parents get their act together might be an option...

Then mandate rehab for the parents (along with a period of drug testing after rehab to make sure they stay clean), before taking another look at custody and any future benefits...

Screw up again, say goodbye to benefits, declare the adults unfit parents, and make other arrangements for the kids...

We need to look out for the kids, not just ignore the problem and subsidize drug dealers.

Nice to know there are other posters here who are willing to talk things through and toss out real ideas, without personal insults and name-calling.

I sure wish there were more of it here, but I'm happy to see this!
.

Actually, I'm aware of judges requiring a parent to take drug tests for the court in child custody cases, so there shouldn't be a legal issue as far as custody goes.

The main thing to remember is that the kid has no control over their circumstances, so if the child is being deprived or going hungry, they are totally dependent on the system to look out for their interests...

In some instances, the best thing to do is remove the child from the situation and get them where they can be properly cared for, along with getting the parent treatment (with the goal of the parent regaining custody later if treatment is successful)...

Of course, the child could continue to receive benefits through their guardian under those circumstances...

I would hope that would be a win/win.

First, hopefully it would motivate parents to clean their act up. And if not, the child remains in the better environment and goes from there.

So making this whole process as clean and efficient as possible would be critical.
.

 

[bedowin62]

I'm sick to death of the little nippers hiding out behind the nursery school playground sliding board using drugs at my expense. I say, bust the little buggers and make them go to work at the steel mill, where their urine can be collected and thrown on to hot steel during the cooling off process!

sure loon; come back when the meth wears off ok?

 

[Disir]

Yes.

Moreover, I think anyone receiving welfare, with the exception of the old and infirmed and children should have to put in at least 20 hours of community service per week within their immediate area to help pay back the state and government for the privilege of receiving these benefits..

So, you have gathered evidence from the states that have implemented the program and measured it's cost effectiveness and success rate?

A lot of the success would be due to the deterrent value. A lot of people would think twice about using drugs if their benefits were at risk

I disagree. Every state that has implemented it has come to the same conclusions. It isn't worth it.

 

[Moonglow]

 

[paulitician]

Yes.

Moreover, I think anyone receiving welfare, with the exception of the old and infirmed and children should have to put in at least 20 hours of community service per week within their immediate area to help pay back the state and government for the privilege of receiving these benefits..

Mixed feelings about drug testing. But requiring Community Service is something i fully support. They have to give back to the community in some way. It should be a requirement for receiving Entitlements.

 

[Moonglow]

I believe they should have people that can, work through the govt. programs to learn a trade by OJT.........like they did in the 1930's..

 

[Bonzi]

Yes.

Moreover, I think anyone receiving welfare, with the exception of the old and infirmed and children should have to put in at least 20 hours of community service per week within their immediate area to help pay back the state and government for the privilege of receiving these benefits..

There needs to be an answer on how to prevent abuse of the system (which is rampant) - bitching about how expensive it would be to fix it is an ignorant cop out.

 

[Bonzi]

They need to be TRAINED! TAUGHT! Not enabled!

 

[Moonglow]

Yes.

Moreover, I think anyone receiving welfare, with the exception of the old and infirmed and children should have to put in at least 20 hours of community service per week within their immediate area to help pay back the state and government for the privilege of receiving these benefits..

There needs to be an answer on how to prevent abuse of the system (which is rampant) - bitching about how expensive it would be to fix it is an ignorant cop out.

There is more abuse and fraud with welfare by companies and doctors than what individuals do.. Why not drug test doctors, nurses and any providers of welfare recipients?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Yes.

Moreover, I think anyone receiving welfare, with the exception of the old and infirmed and children should have to put in at least 20 hours of community service per week within their immediate area to help pay back the state and government for the privilege of receiving these benefits..

Most people on food stamps work a full-time job. 2 jobs.

Fucking idiot.

He said welfare...fucking idiot.

So for today, for the purpose of this discussion, SNAP or food stamps are not welfare. What is welfare?

Welfare has become a pejorative, and those who use the word in this manner seem not to know or understand the differences between AFDC - which no longer exists - and TANF, and General Assistance.

why dont you explain the differences for us dimwit? you didnt seem to say the differences matter above ^^^; just whined that the word has become a perjorative

Fuck off. You've already proved your ignorance, and it ain't willful.

 

[Obiwan]

Yes.

Moreover, I think anyone receiving welfare, with the exception of the old and infirmed and children should have to put in at least 20 hours of community service per week within their immediate area to help pay back the state and government for the privilege of receiving these benefits..

So, you have gathered evidence from the states that have implemented the program and measured it's cost effectiveness and success rate?

A lot of the success would be due to the deterrent value. A lot of people would think twice about using drugs if their benefits were at risk

I disagree. Every state that has implemented it has come to the same conclusions. It isn't worth it.

$1.45 + shipping for a 5 panel test.
CLIA Waived 5 Panel Drug Test Kit | 5 panel At Home Drug Test Kits

 

[bedowin62]

Most people on food stamps work a full-time job. 2 jobs.

Fucking idiot.

He said welfare...fucking idiot.

So for today, for the purpose of this discussion, SNAP or food stamps are not welfare. What is welfare?

Welfare has become a pejorative, and those who use the word in this manner seem not to know or understand the differences between AFDC - which no longer exists - and TANF, and General Assistance.

why dont you explain the differences for us dimwit? you didnt seem to say the differences matter above ^^^; just whined that the word has become a perjorative

Fuck off. You've already proved your ignorance, and it ain't willful.

spoken like a true left-wing coward who cant make his point when pressed!!