Should the GOP mention that hillary is married to the Waco mass murderer?

[JoeB131]

[

OK, if you were to say they shot each other I would agree but death by fire seems to not be the way I would go if I were committed to killing myself and had weapons.

Well, I would say your not a crazy person, but i'm not even sure about that. I don't know why the Davidians did what they did, other than they were all fucking crazier than a shithouse rat.

[
Second, Maybe those killed in the wooden structure committed suicide by fire, maybe. But what of those in the concrete "bunker" which has survived another fire? Certainly if they are going to die by fire they don't go into a concrete bunker with their children.

Actually, the ones in the bunker shot themselves and their kids.

[
Thirdly, the link you provided does not say they practiced suicide drills. If they did what form of suicide did they practice?

I'm sorry your reading comprehension skills are so poor.

[
Fourth, Did you see how completely the compound burned? No attempt to extinguish the flames and I doubt they could have been. So how do investigators, considering how rapid the site was razed, know exactly where the accelerant was or how it was even used?

YOu mean other than arson investigators and what the surviving cultists confessed to?

[

When you view the video does it really seem like the tanks are trying to make escape holes? And why would they do that when there are already doors and windows? How does tearing up the roof with a boom create escape routes?

Ooohkay, obviously, when dealing with crazy cult apologists, you are dealing with someone who lives in his own reality.

David Koresh had his weak-minded followers commit mass suicide because he knew what they do to his kind in prison.

 

[Freewill]

[

OK, if you were to say they shot each other I would agree but death by fire seems to not be the way I would go if I were committed to killing myself and had weapons.

Well, I would say your not a crazy person, but i'm not even sure about that. I don't know why the Davidians did what they did, other than they were all fucking crazier than a shithouse rat.

[
Second, Maybe those killed in the wooden structure committed suicide by fire, maybe. But what of those in the concrete "bunker" which has survived another fire? Certainly if they are going to die by fire they don't go into a concrete bunker with their children.

Actually, the ones in the bunker shot themselves and their kids.

Again, you have to provide some sort of evidence to making this claim. If you are going to use videos provided, or should I say reference them as proof, then the videos clearly shows a hole in the bunker that may have been put their with shaped charges, thus killing everyone within, which according to the video is a tactic used by the military in such situations. No offense but I think you are just saying things to filling in gaps using what you want to believe more then doing so on the actual evidence.

I'm sorry your reading comprehension skills are so poor.

Me too, could you provide me the quote within the article that backs what you are saying? What you have done seems like a dodge to me.

[
Fourth, Did you see how completely the compound burned? No attempt to extinguish the flames and I doubt they could have been. So how do investigators, considering how rapid the site was razed, know exactly where the accelerant was or how it was even used?

YOu mean other than arson investigators and what the surviving cultists confessed to?

Again I ask, please provide the names of the "cultists" that made such a confession. That way what they said can be analyzed. I did many different google searches and can't really find the confession you are talking about. Which doesn't mean there isn't one I just can't find it. And sorry I don't just take your word for it but people make mistakes. Trust but verify.

[

When you view the video does it really seem like the tanks are trying to make escape holes? And why would they do that when there are already doors and windows? How does tearing up the roof with a boom create escape routes?

Ooohkay, obviously, when dealing with crazy cult apologists, you are dealing with someone who lives in his own reality.

Hmmm a famously non answer.

David Koresh had his weak-minded followers commit mass suicide because he knew what they do to his kind in prison.

He had them kill themselves because of what would happen to HIM? Really? That is your motive for people burning themselves and their children alive? Wouldn't it have been just as effective for him to eat a gun?

 

[Freewill]

Good news Joe, I found this report from the DOJ. Read into it what you will. Part pasted here:


E. Death and Suicide

No one could have predicted with certainty that Koresh and his followers would commit suicide. There were many pieces of evidence suggesting both that Koresh was not suicidal and that he was suicidal. While so much of Koresh's preaching and the Davidians, religious beliefs revolved around notions of mass destruction, apocalyptic confrontations, and the like, it was very difficult during the standoff for the FBI to reach any particular conclusion regarding the possibility of suicide.
Following is a summary of the information that the FBI had compiled during the standoff regarding the possibility that Koresh and the Davidians would or would not commit suicide:

1. Suicide Possible

Several former compound residents and relatives of current compound residents spoke of the Davidians' devotion to Koresh and their desire to kill or die for him. one former resident who left during the standoff told investigators that on March 2 Koresh intended to leave the compound with his followers and commit mass suicide, until Koresh changed his mind when God told him "to wait." Another former resident stated she had heard the members speak numerous times about suicide. Former Koresh "wife" Dana Okimoto said that if Koresh were to die before his followers, everyone inside the compound would kill themselves.
On March 5, 1993, released child Joan Vaega had a note pinned to her clothes stating that her mother (Marguerita Vaega) would be dead by the time other relatives had read the note. Former compound residents now living in Australia reported that Koresh planned mass suicide. Dr. Bruce Perry, who interviewed the released Davidian children, reported that the Davidians had apparently reached some group consensus about a final end to the confrontation. Finally, "cult expert" Kelli Waxman warned in early March that Koresh probably had suicide plans.
Several other former compound members reported that while mass suicide was not possible, they and those still inside the compound would not hesitate to die for Koresh. They also reported that Koresh expected to die in a confrontation with the government.

2. Suicide Not Possible

The FBI also received much credible information discounting the possibility of suicide. For example, the negotiators confronted Koresh and Schneider several times directly with the question of whether they planned to commit suicide, and each time they emphatically denied that suicide was planned. Several Davidians who left the compound during the standoff (Catherine Mattson, Kathy Schroeder, Brad Branch, Anetta Richards and Livingstone Fagan) all said they were not aware of any plans or preparations for mass suicide. Several relatives of Davidians also reported that, based on their knowledge of the cult, mass suicide would be inconsistent with their religious beliefs.

3. Expert Opinions Regarding Suicide
As discussed in an earlier section of this report, the FBI received much input during the standoff from experts. The input the FBI received regarding the suicidal tendencies of Koresh and his followers was conflicting. For example, late in the standoff, the FBI's Behavioral Sciences Unit (BSU) prepared a short memorandum reflecting on Koresh's personality as observed through the negotiation process. The BSU noted that Koresh had displayed a variety of personality traits throughout the negotiations, ranging from friendly to angry, cooperative to confrontational, compliant to defiant, upbeat to morose, and pragmatic to delusional. The negotiation team reported its "growing concern" that, despite his statements to the contrary, Koresh might be planning a mass suicide similar to-Jonestown. Nevertheless, the BSU concluded that mass suicide was probably unlikely, because Koresh possessed, among others, the following personality traits: (1) generally acts only in self-interest; (2) statistically shows a low suicide rate; and (3) more likely to arrange a "suicide by cop" situation than to commit suicide.

The FBI's outside experts also failed to agree whether suicide was likely. In late March, while in Waco, Dr. Di Giovanni tentatively concluded that Koresh probably was not suicidal. However, Dr. Bruce Perry and Joyce Sparks, of the Texas Department of Child Protective Services, who viewed the March 28, 1993 videotape showing Koresh and his children, told the FBI on April 1 that Koresh might have been planning to cause an "apocalyptic" end to the standoff. Ms. Sparks recalled that Koresh had told her during of her prior visits to the compound that there would be a "fiery" end or an "explosion" at the compound. Dr. Perry believed that Koresh was stalling for time, to prepare for his "final battle" with the authorities. Dr. Perry believed that Koresh might try to lure law enforcement officers inside the compound, so that he could kill himself, his followers, and as many law enforcement agents as possible in a final apocalyptic end.

The experts who analyzed the letters Koresh sent out between April 9 and April 14 also reached different conclusions regarding the possibility of suicide. Dr. Miron rejected the possibility of suicide, stating the following after reviewing Koresh's April 9 letter: "In my judgment, we are facing a determined, hardened adversary who has no intention of delivering himself or his followers into the hands of his adversaries. It is my belief that he is waiting for an assault. . . . Koresh's communication does not resemble the suicidal sermon made by Jim Jones in the last hours of Jonestown. His is not the language of those at Massada or Jonestown. He intends to fight." However, Krofchek and Van Zandt analyzed the same letter from Koresh and reached a somewhat different conclusion: Koresh was "willing to kill, to see his followers die, and to die himself." Krofcheck and Van Zandt believed that Koresh was "fully capable of creating the circumstances to bring this matter to a 'magnificent' end, in his mind, a conclusion that could take the lives of all of his followers and as many of the authorities as possible."

Report to the Deputy Attorney General on the Events at Waco, Texas: Attitudes of Koresh and others in the Compound

 

[JoeB131]

[

He had them kill themselves because of what would happen to HIM? Really? That is your motive for people burning themselves and their children alive? Wouldn't it have been just as effective for him to eat a gun?

Oh, the world would have been better off if Koresh had eaten his gun.

But Koresh was a narcissistic psycho who thought he was fulfilling bible prophecy by fathering little baby messiahs on teenage girls.

In his twisting thinking, they'd all be taken to the afterlife with him.

Religion- It's never done anything good in the whole of human history, not even by accident.

 

[Freewill]

Might I point out the only named witness that even mentions suicide left the compound before the
ATF raid. Dana Okimoto

Also do you find it interesting that none of the ATF agents died outside the building? That immediately after the shooting the ATF was allowed in to remove the wounded?

 

[JoeB131]

Might I point out the only named witness that even mentions suicide left the compound before the
ATF raid. Dana Okimoto

Also do you find it interesting that none of the ATF agents died outside the building? That immediately after the shooting the ATF was allowed in to remove the wounded?

No, i don't find any of that interesting. Koresh knew he fucked up shooting at them, he wasn't going to make it worse on himself. He maybe thought he had a way out of this if he let them go.

Koresh was nuts. It's really that simple.

And it's easier to buy that a bunch of nuts killed themselves than trained Federal Agents would burn a bunch of people alive when they could have just as easily shot them all.

 

[Freewill]

[

OK, if you were to say they shot each other I would agree but death by fire seems to not be the way I would go if I were committed to killing myself and had weapons.

Well, I would say your not a crazy person, but i'm not even sure about that. I don't know why the Davidians did what they did, other than they were all fucking crazier than a shithouse rat.

[
Second, Maybe those killed in the wooden structure committed suicide by fire, maybe. But what of those in the concrete "bunker" which has survived another fire? Certainly if they are going to die by fire they don't go into a concrete bunker with their children.

Actually, the ones in the bunker shot themselves and their kids.



I'm sorry your reading comprehension skills are so poor.

[
Fourth, Did you see how completely the compound burned? No attempt to extinguish the flames and I doubt they could have been. So how do investigators, considering how rapid the site was razed, know exactly where the accelerant was or how it was even used?

YOu mean other than arson investigators and what the surviving cultists confessed to?

[

When you view the video does it really seem like the tanks are trying to make escape holes? And why would they do that when there are already doors and windows? How does tearing up the roof with a boom create escape routes?

Ooohkay, obviously, when dealing with crazy cult apologists, you are dealing with someone who lives in his own reality.

David Koresh had his weak-minded followers commit mass suicide because he knew what they do to his kind in prison.

[

He had them kill themselves because of what would happen to HIM? Really? That is your motive for people burning themselves and their children alive? Wouldn't it have been just as effective for him to eat a gun?

Oh, the world would have been better off if Koresh had eaten his gun.

But Koresh was a narcissistic psycho who thought he was fulfilling bible prophecy by fathering little baby messiahs on teenage girls.

In his twisting thinking, they'd all be taken to the afterlife with him.

Religion- It's never done anything good in the whole of human history, not even by accident.

Was your favorite game in HS dodge ball?

You focus on the bad that some have done because of their "religion." But the good far outstrips the bad. Take away all the charities that were driven by religious groups and see what you have. Take away the places of higher education that were started by religious groups. Take away the hospitals. I think if you did your view on religion may change.

Look at the Davidians before the raid, who exactly were they hurting? Yes, the pedophilia angle needs to be pushed to vilify them but that aside who besides their members were they hurting? And the raid was no conducted to "save the children" or to save women from being his wife. The truth is they were helping people of all persuadation, black, white, Hispanic all colors.

Now if there was a weapons problem then all the ATF had to do is go to the gun shows and see the weapons then BAM arrest those involved. Or as stated they could have arrested them all at the local WalMart. The bottom line, this didn't have to happen and religion played little part in it prior to the raid.

 

[KNB]

Should the GOP mention that they squandered trillions of our tax dollars on invading and torturing Iraq over lies?

 

[Freewill]

Might I point out the only named witness that even mentions suicide left the compound before the
ATF raid. Dana Okimoto

Also do you find it interesting that none of the ATF agents died outside the building? That immediately after the shooting the ATF was allowed in to remove the wounded?

No, i don't find any of that interesting. Koresh knew he fucked up shooting at them, he wasn't going to make it worse on himself. He maybe thought he had a way out of this if he let them go.

Koresh was nuts. It's really that simple.

And it's easier to buy that a bunch of nuts killed themselves than trained Federal Agents would burn a bunch of people alive when they could have just as easily shot them all.

Koresh was shot while unarmed and I have seen no information that he shot at or shot anyone.

The fires could just as easily been started by accident by either side. But we know for absolute fact that the ATF and FBI lied about using in cinerary devices. No way they could have been wrong they had to know what they were using. Firing such a device into a wooden tinder box then being surprised it exploded into flame???Really???

 

[Freewill]

Should the GOP mention that they squandered trillions of our tax dollars on invading and torturing Iraq over lies?

Yes, and Hillary fully support it. I guess that means she loses your vote.

 

[Unkotare]

Hilary married Janet Reno? Makes sense, but I think I would have heard something about it on the news. Has Bubba moved in at Hef's place yet?

 

[Contumacious]

Conjecture by the FBI to cover their ass, and corroborated by a complicit government...we've seen this before at Ruby Ridge!.... Show us where the Dravidians were suicidal before the FBI raid!

The Branch Davidians practiced suicide drills.

What would you do if if your government has a powerful murderous domestic army which refuses to negotiate , is determined to massacre you and yours, has terrorized the residents for two months and not one single American has come to your defense and the American Media has ignored your plight and obediently follows the stormtroopers instructions to stay away from your residence?

/

 

[Contumacious]

But Koresh was a narcissistic psycho who thought he was fulfilling bible prophecy by fathering little baby messiahs on teenage girls.
.

Excuse me dingle berry:

The BATF had NO LAWFUL REASON TO BE on the Davidians Compound.

The Davidians had a LICENSE to sell firearms

The BATF wanted to redeem their image as a "Law" enforcement agency so it used the Davidians as a stepping stone because the populace is completely and totally narcotized.

.

 

[Freewill]

But Koresh was a narcissistic psycho who thought he was fulfilling bible prophecy by fathering little baby messiahs on teenage girls.
.

Excuse me dingle berry:

The BATF had NO LAWFUL REASON TO BE on the Davidians Compound.

The Davidians had a LICENSE to sell firearms

The BATF wanted to redeem their image as a "Law" enforcement agency so it used the Davidians as a stepping stone because the populace is completely and totally narcotized.

.

I don't think Joe will respond for awhile. I believe he goes to temple on Saturday.

 

[MikeK]

Might I point out the only named witness that even mentions suicide left the compound before the
ATF raid. Dana Okimoto

Also do you find it interesting that none of the ATF agents died outside the building? That immediately after the shooting the ATF was allowed in to remove the wounded?

No, i don't find any of that interesting. Koresh knew he fucked up shooting at them, he wasn't going to make it worse on himself. He maybe thought he had a way out of this if he let them go.

Koresh was nuts. It's really that simple.

And it's easier to buy that a bunch of nuts killed themselves than trained Federal Agents would burn a bunch of people alive when they could have just as easily shot them all.

That theory would quickly fall apart in the face of the obvious incompetence of law-enforcement agencies at all levels, as evidenced not only by the Waco Massacre but the Ruby Ridge disaster, the 1985 Philadelphia debacle in which the police burned down an entire neighborhood attempting to breach the M.O.V.E. movement's barricaded premises, and the rising number of botched SWAT raids taking place all over America. Botched Paramilitary Police Raids | Cato Institute

The simple fact is those "trained federal agents," are approximately as capable of dealing with unusual situations as are the local goons who are conducting a rising number of unnecessary SWAT raids -- and botching many of them -- all over America, every day of the week. Botched Paramilitary Police Raids | Cato Institute

They are capable only of Gestapo tactics and mass destruction -- usually by fire.

 

[Freewill]

Might I point out the only named witness that even mentions suicide left the compound before the
ATF raid. Dana Okimoto

Also do you find it interesting that none of the ATF agents died outside the building? That immediately after the shooting the ATF was allowed in to remove the wounded?

No, i don't find any of that interesting. Koresh knew he fucked up shooting at them, he wasn't going to make it worse on himself. He maybe thought he had a way out of this if he let them go.

Koresh was nuts. It's really that simple.

And it's easier to buy that a bunch of nuts killed themselves than trained Federal Agents would burn a bunch of people alive when they could have just as easily shot them all.

That theory would quickly fall apart in the face of the obvious incompetence of law-enforcement agencies at all levels, as evidenced not only by the Waco Massacre but the Ruby Ridge disaster, the 1985 Philadelphia debacle in which the police burned down an entire neighborhood attempting to breach the M.O.V.E. movement's barricaded premises, and the rising number of botched SWAT raids taking place all over America. Botched Paramilitary Police Raids | Cato Institute

The simple fact is those "trained federal agents," are approximately as capable of dealing with unusual situations as are the local goons who are conducting a rising number of unnecessary SWAT raids -- and botching many of them -- all over America, every day of the week. Botched Paramilitary Police Raids | Cato Institute

They are capable only of Gestapo tactics and mass destruction -- usually by fire.

Consider this, blotched or not they are in training for when they...........well you know.

 

[KNB]

Should the GOP mention that they squandered trillions of our tax dollars on invading and torturing Iraq over lies?

Yes, and Hillary fully support it. I guess that means she loses your vote.

Yeah, Democrats voted for the invasion, based on lies from Curveball and the Bush administration.

What makes you think that I would vote for Hillary Clinton? Just because I hate retarded fucking Republicans? That doesn't mean that I'm a Democrat. That means that I hate retarded fucking Republicans. When a Democrat is just as terrible as a Republican, as in the case of Obama compared to Bush, I hate that Democrat just as much. But since Republicans, ALL Republicans, continue to defend George W. Bush and his lies and war crimes, ALL Republicans can fuck themselves without mercy.

 

[Freewill]

Should the GOP mention that they squandered trillions of our tax dollars on invading and torturing Iraq over lies?

Yes, and Hillary fully support it. I guess that means she loses your vote.

Yeah, Democrats voted for the invasion, based on lies from Curveball and the Bush administration.

What makes you think that I would vote for Hillary Clinton? Just because I hate retarded fucking Republicans? That doesn't mean that I'm a Democrat. That means that I hate retarded fucking Republicans. When a Democrat is just as terrible as a Republican, as in the case of Obama compared to Bush, I hate that Democrat just as much. But since Republicans, ALL Republicans, continue to defend George W. Bush and his lies and war crimes, ALL Republicans can fuck themselves without mercy.

So what you are trying to tell us is that Hillary is so stupid that she listened to GWB even though she was married to Bill? Really? I do understand there was probably no pillow talk between her and Bill but you would think that he would have at least let her know she was being duped by what must have been the greatest evil genius that ever inhabited the WH.

Really, are you going to vote for someone that stupid? So stupid as to be tricked by GWB? BTW, Hillary never backed down that I heard. Oh but Kerry he certainly used our troops for his benefit. Man you seem really mad, I just wonder what you would be like if you actually had served in our volunteer army.

 

[KNB]

Actually, choad, I am a veteran so fuck yourself without mercy. Bill Clinton is a war criminal, too. What part do you not understand? Your government hasn't fought a worthwhile war since the 1940s, and there have been plenty of wars since then (even though Congress has never actually declared war). Why would I vote for Hillary Clinton just because Bush is a fuck up? Why would I vote for a Democrat when they're just as terrible as Republicans? Or have you not been paying attention since 2008?

You still think that there are only two choices in America. That's why the ruling powers are able to stay in power.

 

[Freewill]

Actually, choad, I am a veteran so fuck yourself without mercy. Bill Clinton is a war criminal, too. What part do you not understand? Your government hasn't fought a worthwhile war since the 1940s, and there have been plenty of wars since then (even though Congress has never actually declared war). Why would I vote for Hillary Clinton just because Bush is a fuck up? Why would I vote for a Democrat when they're just as terrible as Republicans? Or have you not been paying attention since 2008?

You still think that there are only two choices in America. That's why the ruling powers are able to stay in power.

Oh I am sorry, Thank you for your service, what part of the Army did you serve?

I may think there are two choices but apparently you think there is only one. BTW I voted for Ross Perot for president. He ran as an independent a long time before I am sure you were born. Read about him in the history books and how he was able to free his men from prison in the ME.

So, now, are you going to be true to your word and not vote for Hillary?