Should the Social Security and Medicare Age be Raised

[HenryBHough]

All this worry about fiat money - of itself worthless since the gold standard was tossed out.

Wealth measured in make-believe Dollars is just a figment of your imagination. Brought to you through the glory and grace of The Democrat Party.

 

[kaz]

Controlled? To a degree. But that is meaningless.

The facts do not care what the political theory is. It is a cold hard fact that the government forced me to buy a financial product called Social Security. There is no way around that.


Where have I changed the nature of government?

I am referring to how the government stands right now. Those were facts kaz, not philosophical points based on a fantastical idea of government. It is what was ACTUALLY done.

I'll give you the 411, Nevil, the government is to be controlled by the people. That is isn't is the problem, it's not just "to a degree," the government is controlling us, not the other way around. But yes, it does matter, it matters a lot

 

[Lesh]

LOL, so Reagan created Social Security, did he? History says he didn't, LOL ...

He created theTrust Fund as we know it

 

[dblack]

Nicely put, but if you were talking to a Republican you wouldn't explain your position, you'd just start railing on Trumps supporters. For those of us who voted for Trump for sucking less than Biden, you give us the same anti-Trump supporter meltdown

 

[Lesh]

It doesn't happen except on rare occasions and usually after the commies increased their taxes in the first place.

It keeps happening. Over and over.

 

[Lesh]

Privatizing SS and getting it out of the hands of government would allow people to retire with more money at an earlier age. Plus if they didn't make it to the age they wish to retire, that money becomes an inheritance for the family or whoever.

It would put our retirement in the hands of the stock market entirely

Bad idea

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But soc sec taxes also provide disability benefits for disabled workers, disability benefits for disabled children, widows and orphans benefits. It's not simply a retirement program.

That comes from your FICA taxes not SS although people argue it's the same thing because of disability. I'm talking about just replacing SS and leave the FICA as it is.

 

[kaz]

People who pass away before retirement are not winners, they are losers. They paid into the system all of their lives and got nothing in return, and because it's government operated, their heirs won't see a dime of that money either.

Insurance works the exact same way. You pay auto or home insurance all your life, but if you never got into an accident, got your car stolen, have a house fire or major water damage, you get nothing back for all the years you paid your premiums.

Also insurance works the same way as in there is no real account in your name but on paper. They don't take your money and save it for when you need it. They use your money to payoff claims of people currently in need of help.

Sorry, my friend, but if you think Social Security is "insurance," then you don't understand insurance.

A: From your post, yes, auto or life only pay if you meet the conditions of the policy.

B: SOCIAL SECURITY ALWAYS PAYS.

Insurance is synonymous with Risk Sharing. Note that A is risk sharing because all the people who don't meet the policy terms don't get paid. Focus on this part of my post and focus on risk sharing and understand why A is and B isn't. Insurance? A is and B isn't.

A note on the argument of some people die and don't get paid. That argument would work if the people who died funded the people who live like life. It doesn't, so it's not risk sharing

 

[bendog]

He created theTrust Fund as we know it

And contrary to GOP dogma ... he raised taxes to do it. LOL I'm pretty sure Biden could have gotten five gop votes. It's a damn shame, imo.

I think the progressives actually don't want to raise a tax tied to soc sec. If we have to choose between soc sec, paying on the debt or the military ... we'll opt out of the latter.

 

[bendog]

That comes from your FICA taxes not SS although people argue it's the same thing because of disability. I'm talking about just replacing SS and leave the FICA as it is.

https://www.ssa.gov/thirdparty/materials/pdfs/educators/What-is-FICA-Infographic-EN-05-10297.pdf

 

[kaz]

You ask a question, and then get all crazy when someone doesn't answer what you didn't ask.

You asked "It is not insurance. Insurance doesn't send you a monthly check. You send THEM a monthly check. You're more confused than the leftists. Calling social security "insurance" is retarded. What insurance company sends you a monthly check? Name them"

I answered. It is that simple.

Yes, you "answered" and said that all insurance sends you a monthly check.

I asked you what you are doing with all those monthly checks from your car insurance, life insurance, homeowners insurance. This is your meltdown answer to it, you big baby. Now stop crying and answer the question. Explain these monthly checks you get and what you do with them

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It would put our retirement in the hands of the stock market entirely

Bad idea

No, good idea. That's where my (and others) IRA is invested and we're doing great unless you decided to handle your own money. I did even better during the DumBama years. Like I said earlier in the conversation, SS sends out pamphlets now and then describing your (and your employers) contributions to your account. Next time they do that, take that pamphlet to a reputable investment company and ask them what you would be worth today had that money been deposited to your private account all these years. Then compare it to the SS estimated payout if you retired today.

You and I both save the same amount of money every month. You put your money in a standard savings account with your bank and I put mine in a conservative growth fund. Which one of us will have more money at the age of 60 do you suppose? That's what we're really talking about here, and that's why SS is going broke. No institution can stay open paying out more than they take in.

 

[kaz]

No, that is not what we were discussing. At no time did I say I had not saved. Not once. You were the one who did not save anything.

I paid into an insurance that promised to pay be a retirement stipend when I reached certain age. I have reached that age and now they are going to send me a check.

Winterborn starts making up snotty shit that I didn't save any money and I want to live on government
kaz: Returns the message

Winterborn: Melts down and doesn't get it.

Oh grow up you big fucking baby and stop crying. And stop doing strawmen, you're not emotionally mature enough to handle it and you suck at it, little girl

 

[kaz]

He created theTrust Fund as we know it

There was zero savings in Social Security when Reagan took office, this is a lie. You need to go back to LBJ and Nixon to make your argument. Not that it still doesn't change that it completely wouldn't matter.

You're trying a red herring defense. None of this affects the discussion

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And contrary to GOP dogma ... he raised taxes to do it. LOL I'm pretty sure Biden could have gotten five gop votes. It's a damn shame, imo.

I think the progressives actually don't want to raise a tax tied to soc sec. If we have to choose between soc sec, paying on the debt or the military ... we'll opt out of the latter.

Why do you think they don't increase employee contributions? Because then more people would want to opt out of the SS program and the Democrats would never stand for it. So they keep kicking the can down the road, and they'll keep kicking it until the program is bankrupt and they have to do something.

 

[kaz]

LOL, thanks for demonstracting my point, hysterical little girl.

dblack: OMG, a Trump supporter! A Trump supporter! Oh panic and fear!!!

 

[Lesh]

There was zero savings in Social Security when Reagan took office, this is a lie. You need to go back to LBJ and Nixon to make your argument. Not that it still doesn't change that it completely wouldn't matter.

You're trying a red herring defense. None of this affects the discussion

When Reagan took office. The Trust Fund as we know it and the tax hikes on the middle class and poor that built it up BEGAN during the Reagan admin

 

[WinterBorn]

Yes, you "answered" and said that all insurance sends you a monthly check.

I asked you what you are doing with all those monthly checks from your car insurance, life insurance, homeowners insurance. This is your meltdown answer to it, you big baby. Now stop crying and answer the question. Explain these monthly checks you get and what you do with them

No. You asked what insurance company send checks. You were claiming they didn't send checks. I simply reminded you of the fact that all insurance companies send checks if something happens that is covered under the policy.

If you have disability insurance, and become disabled, the insurance company send you a check.
If you are in a car accident, the insurance company sends you a check.
If you have homeowners insurance, and a tree falls on your house, the insurance company sends you a check.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

https://www.ssa.gov/thirdparty/materials/pdfs/educators/What-is-FICA-Infographic-EN-05-10297.pdf

FICA Taxes and SSDI Funding​

When you work for an employer, you and your employer pay FICA taxes that go into this trust fund, which is then used to distribute benefits. Or, if you work for yourself, you pay both the employee’s and the employer’s tax. That way, you contribute to this entitlement that can really help you if you’re now suffering a disability.

How is SSDI Funded? | Disability Benefits Center

If you have a disability that prevents you from working, you may be eligible for Social Security disability benefits. The Social Security Administration determines if you are financially and medically eligible to receive these payments, which help pay medical bills and living expenses. Social...

www.disabilitybenefitscenter.org

 

[WinterBorn]

Winterborn starts making up snotty shit that I didn't save any money and I want to live on government
kaz: Returns the message

Winterborn: Melts down and doesn't get it.

Oh grow up you big fucking baby and stop crying. And stop doing strawmen, you're not emotionally mature enough to handle it and you suck at it, little girl

Oh please. You said youself that you didn't save any money.

And which of us is calling the other person names? Is that what you claim is mature debate?