Should the Social Security and Medicare Age be Raised

[gipper]

So the system works really well then huh...

He FEELS it does.

 

[...]

You and I don't have the actual books in front of us, so all we can go by is what the CBO or others in the know say about these programs. No doubt we work too much in this country. Hell, all Europeans get six weeks off in the summer alone, hour lunches, and some even a nap afterwards. But if you look around in just your inner circle, you probably know a lot of people that put in less than they collected once they start using these programs. No private business could operate this way, so what makes you think government can? For instance my father is going to turn 91 this summer if he makes it. He took an early retirement at 62. Between SS and Medicare, do you think he put that much in to be taken care of for nearly 30 years of his life? I know he didn't in spite of him making a pretty good buck as a bricklayer.

Well what you're saying about your grandfather is that at 62 when he started to draw, he had only worked for 32 years... Is he really drawing more than he's worth? I doubt that; by that I mean his monthly benefit is not that much and medicare is the kick-in. Your grandfather, as an operative mason worked a very honorable career and did he belong to a union? Is he drawing a union pension?

A government pension: i.e. Social Security WAS an add on, however poor people retiring to nothing was just not the American way, particularly after the Great Depression which was the catalyst for elder care and deserved comfort. As you say the US is not a private business but does indeed have to mange its books and we consider expenses in the federal budget, there is scads of money that could be "rearranged in a budget" to meet retirement expenses

You see the other thing is that the Baby Boomers like myself are all "goin out" at virtually the same time. The youngest of us: born in 1964 are now 58 years old, so there will also be a big die off, which is what's happening top our parent's generation now, so 30 years is about average - maybe, dependent upon what age you go out.

The money is there. We just have to apply it. In my view, adversaries of SS want to put an end to it so that we all retire through the stock market: think of the fees that will generate... and if the market goes south, your retirement is toast. As is, SS is a guaranteed life income for a career of taxes to pay for everything. We should protect and manage it better.

If health care offered decent insurance for the aged, then Medicare wouldn't be such a big deal, but a supplement...

 

[gipper]

Well what you're saying about your grandfather is that at 62 when he started to draw, he had only worked for 32 years... Is he really drawing more than he's worth? I doubt that; by that I mean his monthly benefit is not that much and medicare is the kick-in. Your grandfather, as an operative mason worked a very honorable career and did he belong to a union? Is he drawing a union pension?

A government pension: i.e. Social Security WAS an add on, however poor people retiring to nothing was just not the American way, particularly after the Great Depression which was the catalyst for elder care and deserved comfort. As you say the US is not a private business but does indeed have to mange its books and we consider expenses in the federal budget, there is scads of money that could be "rearranged in a budget" to meet retirement expenses

You see the other thing is that the Baby Boomers like myself are all "goin out" at virtually the same time. The youngest of us: born in 1964 are now 58 years old, so there will also be a big die off, which is what's happening top our parent's generation now, so 30 years is about average - maybe, dependent upon what age you go out.

The money is there. We just have to apply it. In my view, adversaries of SS want to put an end to it so that we all retire through the stock market: think of the fees that will generate... and if the market goes south, your retirement is toast. As is, SS is a guaranteed life income for a career of taxes to pay for everything. We should protect and manage it better.

If health care offered decent insurance for the aged, then Medicare wouldn't be such a big deal, but a supplement...

Conboy loves to criticize SS and Medicare, but would never criticize our government’s ridiculous war spending, corporate welfare, and unjust tax code. Proving himself a hypocrite.

He talks of his long collecting father as if he represents everyone on SS. How about the many Americans who die before ever collecting a dime. Or those who die shortly after collecting. Do they get their money given to their descendants? Of course not.

 

[...]

Conboy loves to criticize SS and Medicare, but would never criticize our government’s ridiculous war spending, corporate welfare, and unjust tax code. Proving himself a hypocrite.

He talks of his long collecting father as if he represents everyone on SS. How about the many Americans who die before ever collecting a dime. Or those who die shortly after collecting. Do they get their money given to their descendants? Of course not.

I remember a guy that I would see on my Marin County county route: bobtail driver, worked a whole career with the Teamsters as I have. He told me he decided to retire - or "go out" as we say: he was 65, he retired to bliss and died at 70...

 

[gipper]

I remember a guy that I would see on my Marin County county route: bobtail driver, worked a whole career with the Teamsters as I have. He told me he decided to retire - or "go out" as we say: he was 65, he retired to bliss and died at 70...

I know several people who died before ever collecting, including my older brother and kid sister. A close buddy was an iron worker. Worked nearly three decades in that tough profession, then died of cancer before he could collect his very lucrative pension and SS benefits.

 

[...]

I know several people who died before ever collecting, including my older brother and kid sister. A close buddy was an iron worker. Worked nearly three decades in that tough profession, then died of cancer before he could collect his very lucrative pension and SS benefits.

Yeah, my late father in law was an iron worker as well: worked on the east coast before the war and then moved out here to the west: almost died of lead poisoning in 1980, but made it and lived until the age of 85 I believe: SS and Iron Worker's pension; not much in monthly benefits though due to low contributions from the early days, so he got about 20 years in retirement.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well what you're saying about your grandfather is that at 62 when he started to draw, he had only worked for 32 years... Is he really drawing more than he's worth? I doubt that; by that I mean his monthly benefit is not that much and medicare is the kick-in. Your grandfather, as an operative mason worked a very honorable career and did he belong to a union? Is he drawing a union pension?

A government pension: i.e. Social Security WAS an add on, however poor people retiring to nothing was just not the American way, particularly after the Great Depression which was the catalyst for elder care and deserved comfort. As you say the US is not a private business but does indeed have to mange its books and we consider expenses in the federal budget, there is scads of money that could be "rearranged in a budget" to meet retirement expenses

You see the other thing is that the Baby Boomers like myself are all "goin out" at virtually the same time. The youngest of us: born in 1964 are now 58 years old, so there will also be a big die off, which is what's happening top our parent's generation now, so 30 years is about average - maybe, dependent upon what age you go out.

The money is there. We just have to apply it. In my view, adversaries of SS want to put an end to it so that we all retire through the stock market: think of the fees that will generate... and if the market goes south, your retirement is toast. As is, SS is a guaranteed life income for a career of taxes to pay for everything. We should protect and manage it better.

If health care offered decent insurance for the aged, then Medicare wouldn't be such a big deal, but a supplement...

Actually it's not my grandfather, it's my father, and he got way, way more back than he contributed. In fact after his first angioplasty, he laughed how that one procedure cost more than he put in Medicare his entire life, and he had about four more afterwards and the latest a quadruple bypass. Yes he also had his bricklayers pension, another program where he got back way more than he put in.

True the market has it's ups and downs but it always bounces back. We have more people in the market than ever before, so when it does take a dive, people start feeding money into it and the low doesn't last very long. If we went to a purely market retirement, people would not only be able to retire earlier, but have more per month to spend. Not only that but if they pass away before they can collect, they can leave that money to the family. If people could comfortably retire at 60 and the market is down, so they work to 61. It's better than the system we have now.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So the system works really well then huh...

No it doesn't, that's the problem. It's why the politicians both left and right are trying to figure out a solution for the upcoming disaster when the funds run dry.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So because its in the constitution, significant war spending increases every year is just fine by you. See? Silly.

Regarding income taxes I’ve paid plenty, because I’m upper middle class including big capital gains taxes. However unlike you, I can think.

When the billionaires pay little to nothing in income taxes, this is clearly unjust. Plus the billionaires use their wealth to control government and influence everything in our society. You cons like to condemn the poor for not paying income tax, yet you support the billionaires not paying income tax. See? Silly.

According to one of the latest studies billionaires in the US pay on average 8.2% in taxes. Yes some have enough write-offs to pay nothing while others don't and pay 15%, but this myth all billionaires pay nothing is just pure BS.

That's besides the fact we should all pay an equal percentage of taxes no matter if you're a billionaire or a french fry maker at McDonald's. Fair means equal and taxation is the farthest thing from equal. If you are having a steak dinner with a billionaire, he pays the same amount of money for his dinner as you do. That's fair.

But the problem is half of the people in our country pay no federal income tax while (as I stated) the top 10% pay 71% of all collected taxes. The top 20% pay nearly 80%.

So if 80% isn't enough, how much more should they be paying?

Our government is not being controlled by billionaires, it's being controlled by uninformed voters; people who don't understand the difference between their local city government and the federal government. Politicians love contributions but they love power even more. They would cater to the voter instead of the unions, businesses, wealthy people, environmentalists, because it's the voters that give them the power they need to succeed in a political career.

New OMB-CEA Report: Billionaires Pay an Average Federal Individual Income Tax Rate of Just 8.2% | OMB | The White House

For far too long, our economy has rewarded wealth instead of work—catering to the richest Americans and biggest corporations at the expense of ordinary people. At the center of that system is a tax code that allows the wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. And while we have long known that...

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[Lesh]

According to one of the latest studies billionaires in the US pay on average 8.2% in taxes. Yes some have enough write-offs to pay nothing while others don't and pay 15%, but this myth all billionaires pay nothing is just pure BS.

That's besides the fact we should all pay an equal percentage of taxes no matter if you're a billionaire or a french fry maker at McDonald's. Fair means equal and taxation is the farthest thing from equal. If you are having a steak dinner with a billionaire, he pays the same amount of money for his dinner as you do. That's fair.

But the problem is half of the people in our country pay no federal income tax while (as I stated) the top 10% pay 71% of all collected taxes. The top 20% pay nearly 80%.

So if 80% isn't enough, how much more should they be paying?

Our government is not being controlled by billionaires, it's being controlled by uninformed voters; people who don't understand the difference between their local city government and the federal government. Politicians love contributions but they love power even more. They would cater to the voter instead of the unions, businesses, wealthy people, environmentalists, because it's the voters that give them the power they need to succeed in a political career.

New OMB-CEA Report: Billionaires Pay an Average Federal Individual Income Tax Rate of Just 8.2% | OMB | The White House

For far too long, our economy has rewarded wealth instead of work—catering to the richest Americans and biggest corporations at the expense of ordinary people. At the center of that system is a tax code that allows the wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. And while we have long known that...

www.whitehouse.gov

Those poor rich people.

Where will they get their next meal!!

 

[beagle9]

Wrong. I put up a thread long ago. Even Buffet told you years ago he pays a lower percentage than his secretary.

It’s all in here.
The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax

Wrong, Buffet had a formula that allowed him to make such a claim, but it was formulated for the sheep to swallow as a yappy pill. All political bull crap, and I'm hoping you know it.. I think you do.

 

[beagle9]

Those poor rich people.

Where will they get their next meal!!

How stupid of a reply was this ?.. Talk about sour grape's and childishness.. Wow.

 

[Lesh]

How stupid of a reply was this ?.. Talk about sour grape's and childishness.. Wow.

Dude...this whole thread is about trashing middle class and poor retirements so that rich people can be a little richer.

get real

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Those poor rich people.

Where will they get their next meal!!

I don't know WTF that has to do with my post, but since you decided to chime in, maybe you answer the question instead: If the top 20% of people in our country pay nearly 80% of all collected income taxes and that's not enough for you, what should they be paying?

 

[Lesh]

I don't know WTF that has to do with my post, but since you decided to chime in, maybe you answer the question instead: If the top 20% of people in our country pay nearly 80% of all collected income taxes and that's not enough for you, what should they be paying?

My God!

At that rate they'll go HUNGRY!

 

[Flopper]

On which balance sheet is the 'asset' listed as a liability?

The treasury bills in the S.S. trust funds are assets of the trust funds and thus a liability of the US government who must redeem the funds as they mature and pay interest and as such, are part of the national debt.

Most of the misunderstandings and misinformation about the S.S. trust fund comes from not understanding what a trust is and how it operates. A few definitions and comments will make that clear:

A Trust fund is a legal entity thus is not part of US government. It consists of assets belonging to the trust. The Grantor of trust; that is those who created the trust and setup the rules under which it operates is the US Congress. The trustees are responsible for management of the trust according to the rules of the grantor for the benefit of the beneficiaries (those receiving social security benefits).

Treasury bills are the only type of investment allowed. These treasury bills carry the same guarantee as other government debt; that is they are backed by the full faith and credit of the US government like all government debt. Interest is paid monthly based on a 12 month average of interest rates, this is why they are called Special Issue Treasury Bills. They do not have a fixed interest rate. In a financial crisis, the trust funds would fare a bit better than other treasury bill holders because of the rules the treasury operates under. These treasury bills are sold and redeemed at par and are redeemable without penalty at any time. However, rules of the trust require all shorter term bills be redeemed prior to longer term bills.

All contributions from employees and employers are first used to pay monthly checks to beneficiaries. Surpluses are invested and deceits are covered by redemptions of treasury bills.

There are six Trustees, four of whom serve by virtue of their positions in the Federal Government: the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and the Commissioner of Social Security. The other two Trustees are public representatives appointed by the President, subject to confirmation by the Senate.

 

[Flopper]

The treasury bills in the S.S. trust funds are assets of the trust funds and thus a liability of the US government who must redeem the funds as they mature and pay interest and as such, are part of the national debt.

Most of the misunderstandings and misinformation about the S.S. trust fund comes from not understanding what a trust is and how it operates. A few definitions and comments will make that clear:

A Trust fund is a legal entity thus is not part of US government. It consists of assets belonging to the trust. The Grantor of trust; that is those who created the trust and setup the rules under which it operates is the US Congress. The trustees are responsible for management of the trust according to the rules of the grantor for the benefit of the beneficiaries (those receiving social security benefits).

Treasury bills are the only type of investment allowed. These treasury bills carry the same guarantee as other government debt; that is they are backed by the full faith and credit of the US government like all government debt. Interest is paid monthly based on a 12 month average of interest rates, this is why they are called Special Issue Treasury Bills. They do not have a fixed interest rate. In a financial crisis, the trust funds would fare a bit better than other treasury bill holders because of the rules the treasury operates under. These treasury bills are sold and redeemed at par and are redeemable without penalty at any time. However, rules of the trust require all shorter term bills be redeemed prior to longer term bills.

All contributions from employees and employers are first used to pay monthly checks to beneficiaries. Surpluses are invested and deceits are covered by redemptions of treasury bills.

There are six Trustees, four of whom serve by virtue of their positions in the Federal Government: the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and the Commissioner of Social Security. The other two Trustees are public representatives appointed by the President, subject to confirmation by the Senate.

Trustees Report Summary

A SUMMARY OF THE 2024 ANNUAL REPORTS

www.ssa.gov

Trust Fund Data

 

[gipper]

Wrong, Buffet had a formula that allowed him to make such a claim, but it was formulated for the sheep to swallow as a yappy pill. All political bull crap, and I'm hoping you know it.. I think you do.

Wrong again. Just read the Propublica series. It’s all there right from the IRS.

 

[gipper]

According to one of the latest studies billionaires in the US pay on average 8.2% in taxes. Yes some have enough write-offs to pay nothing while others don't and pay 15%, but this myth all billionaires pay nothing is just pure BS.

That's besides the fact we should all pay an equal percentage of taxes no matter if you're a billionaire or a french fry maker at McDonald's. Fair means equal and taxation is the farthest thing from equal. If you are having a steak dinner with a billionaire, he pays the same amount of money for his dinner as you do. That's fair.

But the problem is half of the people in our country pay no federal income tax while (as I stated) the top 10% pay 71% of all collected taxes. The top 20% pay nearly 80%.

So if 80% isn't enough, how much more should they be paying?

Our government is not being controlled by billionaires, it's being controlled by uninformed voters; people who don't understand the difference between their local city government and the federal government. Politicians love contributions but they love power even more. They would cater to the voter instead of the unions, businesses, wealthy people, environmentalists, because it's the voters that give them the power they need to succeed in a political career.

New OMB-CEA Report: Billionaires Pay an Average Federal Individual Income Tax Rate of Just 8.2% | OMB | The White House

For far too long, our economy has rewarded wealth instead of work—catering to the richest Americans and biggest corporations at the expense of ordinary people. At the center of that system is a tax code that allows the wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. And while we have long known that...

www.whitehouse.gov

Lol. Jesus dude get informed. The Propublica series documents the income taxes paid by many billionaires. The information they have published was leaked to them from the IRS.

GET INFORMED.

 

[Flopper]

Still irrelevant, lush.

So seriously, you think that there was a trust fund with no money in it contradicts my claim that the trust fund has no money?

How long have you been stupid?

By the rules set by congress, the grantor of the social security trust, the fund can not maintain a cash balance beyond 60 days. All balances must be reinvested monthly just as all redemptions required to pay beneficiaries must be done monthly. In other words, the trust must remained fully invested in treasury bills which are redeemed at par at maturity or when funds are need to pay beneficiaries. These treasury bills when redeemed early have no penalty but also have no fixed interest rate. The rate of interest is based on a 12 month average of treasury interest rates. Thus they are called special interest treasury bills.