Should the Social Security and Medicare Age be Raised

[Ray From Cleveland]

My God!

At that rate they'll go HUNGRY!

I knew I'd get no answer.

 

[Flopper]

How so? A literacy test is to show you can read which many couldn't back in the day black and white. Like my father, many lost their parents at a young age and had to work to support the rest of the family. They didn't have SNAP's, HUD, Medicaid back then. They had no choice but to work.

What I'm suggesting is people get tested on their political knowledge which is not the same thing. You don't even have to go to school to learn what's going on in politics. All you need is this internet or perhaps a daily newspaper.

What makes a good voter is certainly not knowledge of politics or government but rather one that takes the time to become informed on the issues and candidates, making a decision, and voting. I would rather see voters that become informed on the issues and candidates than passed a test about politics and government.

 

[kaz]

I don't believe you made that claim.

I believe you claimed that there was NO Trust Fund prior to Reagan. Not sure why that mattered to you but you were wrong

Whatever

That's how leftists roll. You're lazy, greedy, a racist and a liar. Here are 10 times that I said my argument is the trust fund has no money, lying bitch. I provided the text of the first three times.

Lush, a liar and a racist ...

A few times in this thread I stated I am talking about the "trust fund" has no money and that is my point.

Here you go, lazy ass, 10 times I stated clearly that point.

950
955
964
1314
1321
1323
1327
1339
1390
1391

950: No money was saved, you are full of shit. No money = no trust fund. Go clean up, you peed yourself again

---------------------------------

955: Again, equating this from my saying there is no trust fund and your check contains zero dollars of the money you saved implies what, jackass? This doesn't make sense in any way. So walk me through it, scarecrow

---------------------------------

964:
Not following you down your ratholes.

Fact: There is no money, the government spent it as it came in like all other taxes
Fact: No money = no trust fund
Fact: Zero dollars of the money in your checks came from you, there is NO MONEY
Fact: All money in your check came from taxpayers, just like all other welfare programs

There is no money, there is no trust fund, Social Security works like welfare in EVERY RESPECT other than the compliance words government taught you and you repeat so easily. Of course you can't refute those, which is why you keep throwing up diversions hoping I'll follow them since you're getting destroyed here. You're on welfare no matter what diversions you try

 

[kaz]

Yea, that's what you stupidly claimed

Facts are pre-Democrat, huh?

 

[Lesh]

. No money = no trust fund.

Dude...you claimed that the Trust Fund didn't exist. I showed you that it has existed since 1940. We both agreed that there was very little money in it until Reagan doubled the payroll deduction to Fund it to cover the "Baby Boom shortfall" . I have no idea why you are going on about this but you are one strange little troll

Go clean up, you peed yourself again

Wrong retard. You made yourself look like an obsessive ill informed troll.

Good job

 

[kaz]

By the rules set by congress, the grantor of the social security trust, the fund can not maintain a cash balance beyond 60 days. All balances must be reinvested monthly just as all redemptions required to pay beneficiaries must be done monthly. In other words, the trust must remained fully invested in treasury bills which are redeemed at par at maturity or when funds are need to pay beneficiaries. These treasury bills when redeemed early have no penalty but also have no fixed interest rate. The rate of interest is based on a 12 month average of treasury interest rates. Thus they are called special interest treasury bills.

Who the fuck cares? Seriously. The discussion is that the Social Security trust fund has no money, it's a welfare program. No shit they passed a law that said that you fucking moronic dweeb. Go play with yourself

 

[Lesh]

Who the fuck cares? Seriously. The discussion is that the Social Security trust fund has no money, it's a welfare program. No shit they passed a law that said that you fucking moronic dweeb. Go play with yourself

Obviously that's wrong.

Flopper explained it to you in detail. Why he bothered I'll never know but there it is

 

[kaz]

Dude...you claimed that the Trust Fund didn't exist. I showed you that it has existed since 1940. We both agreed that there was very little money in it until Reagan doubled the payroll deduction to Fund it to cover the "Baby Boom shortfall" . I have no idea why you are going on about this but you are one strange little troll

Wrong retard. You made yourself look like an obsessive ill informed troll.

Good job

kaz: Claimed his argument was that the trust fund had no money

- Support: Cited 10 posts proving what he said and included the text from the first three references

lush: Played with herself, didn't read any of the text and didn't cite any texts. She just repeated her baseless claim. To cite the commercial, it's so you ...

- Support: Repeated his claim and again provided no evidence ...

 

[kaz]

Obviously that's wrong.

Flopper explained it to you in detail. Why he bothered I'll never know but there it is

LOL, this is why I argue with leftists, you're so stupid.

kaz: Says social security trust fund has no money in it, it doesn't

Flopper : They passed a law that said that

lush: OMG that explains it!

OMG you people are stupid, but you are funny, LOL

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What makes a good voter is certainly not knowledge of politics or government but rather one that takes the time to become informed on the issues and candidates, making a decision, and voting. I would rather see voters that become informed on the issues and candidates than passed a test about politics and government.

So how would you get only informed voters if not for a test?

It's like that one lady that stated she was going to get Obama money, or the woman that said everybody gets an Obama phone. These are voters who are so separated from how our country works it's almost entertaining if not for being so sad.

 

[FA_Q2]

The treasury bills in the S.S. trust funds are assets of the trust funds and thus a liability of the US government who must redeem the funds as they mature and pay interest and as such, are part of the national debt.

Most of the misunderstandings and misinformation about the S.S. trust fund comes from not understanding what a trust is and how it operates. A few definitions and comments will make that clear:

A Trust fund is a legal entity thus is not part of US government. It consists of assets belonging to the trust. The Grantor of trust; that is those who created the trust and setup the rules under which it operates is the US Congress. The trustees are responsible for management of the trust according to the rules of the grantor for the benefit of the beneficiaries (those receiving social security benefits).

Treasury bills are the only type of investment allowed. These treasury bills carry the same guarantee as other government debt; that is they are backed by the full faith and credit of the US government like all government debt. Interest is paid monthly based on a 12 month average of interest rates, this is why they are called Special Issue Treasury Bills. They do not have a fixed interest rate. In a financial crisis, the trust funds would fare a bit better than other treasury bill holders because of the rules the treasury operates under. These treasury bills are sold and redeemed at par and are redeemable without penalty at any time. However, rules of the trust require all shorter term bills be redeemed prior to longer term bills.

All contributions from employees and employers are first used to pay monthly checks to beneficiaries. Surpluses are invested and deceits are covered by redemptions of treasury bills.

There are six Trustees, four of whom serve by virtue of their positions in the Federal Government: the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and the Commissioner of Social Security. The other two Trustees are public representatives appointed by the President, subject to confirmation by the Senate.

Which was basically my point - SS is paid for from the general fund and always has been. The treasury bonds are nothing more than an accounting gimmick.

It is a liability on the overall tax receipts of the nation and the idea that the trust fund will run dry and THEN there will be a problem is a rather inane idea. SS is ALREADY pulling from the general fund and if the trust fund disappeared tomorrow, it would be immaterial to anything. It would not change anything whatsoever unless the government decided that was an excuse to stop paying benefits and such an excuse would be specious at best.

There is no real reason that they should stop benefits as those payments happen from the same source of money with the same total amounts with or without the bonds the government issues to itself and holds itself.

The entire idea is nonsensical.

 

[FA_Q2]

So how would you get only informed voters if not for a test?

It's like that one lady that stated she was going to get Obama money, or the woman that said everybody gets an Obama phone. These are voters who are so separated from how our country works it's almost entertaining if not for being so sad.

There is no way whatsoever to get informed voters with government action.

You want informed voters then SOCIAL change is necessary. Namely, people need to STOP being idiots and thinking that voting is a 'right' and proud that they managed to cast an ignorant ballot. It's not. Voting is a RESPONSIBILITY. It is a burden you need to bear, not a right you retain and should be treated with the same respect that you would treat any other burden you have to other people.

 

[Lesh]

@Flopper : They passed a law that said that

You just lied about what Flopper said

Which was basically my point - SS is paid for from the general fund and always has been. The treasury bonds are nothing more than an accounting gimmick.

That's no different than how US Treasury Bonds are repaid. It's an almost identical "accounting gimmick"

To claim that thy are not repaid out the General Fund is just stupid.

 

[Lesh]

No one agreed with that, including Flopper.

Because there is no money in it. Never was. A bond is not money. It is particularly not money when the same entity, just different accounts, holds both the asset side of the bond AND the liability side of the bond. The bond is, quite literally, a zero value instrument to the government as a whole.

Do NOT edit my quotes in that way. That is against site rules.

here is the actual quote

We both agreed that there was very little money in it until Reagan doubled the payroll deduction to Fund it to cover the "Baby Boom shortfall" .

 

[FA_Q2]

You just lied about what Flopper said

That's no different than how US Treasury Bonds are repaid. It's an almost identical "accounting gimmick"

To claim that thy are not repaid out the General Fund is just stupid.

No, other bonds have an asset holder, say you, and a liability holder, the government.

Ergo, YOU have an asset and the GOVERNEMNT has a liability. YOU have something of value that is precisely the same value of liability the government holds.

With the SS fund, the government holds an asset AND it holds the liability. Of the same value. And how much value does that asset holder have then?

We can lead a horse to water...

 

[Lesh]

A bond is not money.

Tell that to all the bond holders out there.

It is a financial OBLIGATION

 

[FA_Q2]

Do NOT edit my qupotes in that way. That is agaionst site rules.

here is the actual quote

We both agreed that there was very little money in it until Reagan doubled the payroll deduction to Fund it to cover the "Baby Boom shortfall" .

I will edit them as I please as long as it does not change the context and point you made, period. That is within the rules.

And you used your inane whining to avoid the point entirely. none of the context changes a damn thing.

NO ONE AGREED THERE WAS MONEY IN THE FUND.

No one. You made that shit up on your own.

 

[FA_Q2]

Tell that to all the bond holders out there.

It is a financial OBLIGATION

Oh, after you JUST bitched about removing context. MY context actually addressed your point and you removed it. Why?

Because you know you have no point with it. So AGAIN:
Ergo, YOU have an asset and the GOVERNEMNT has a liability. YOU have something of value that is precisely the same value of liability the government holds.

With the SS fund, the government holds an asset AND it holds the liability. Of the same value. And how much value does that asset holder have then?

 

[Lesh]

No, other bonds have an asset holder, say you, and a liability holder, the government.

In THIS case those asset holders are the beneficiaries of the Social Security system

 

[Lesh]

I will edit them as I please as long as it does not change the context and point you made, period. That is within the rules.

Tell it to the mods.