Should we remove tax exempt status for Mosque?

[Telekat]

I prefer shutting them down altogether.

That won't happen because of a little something commonly referred to as the U.S Constitution.

 

[Coyote]

The only way to withdraw nonprofit status from mosques while leaving it intact for other belief-systems is to withdraw legal recognition of the religious status of Islam.

Ain't going to happen. Just because a few unhinged rightwing nuts decided within the last decade that a religion that has existed over 1300 years, with over 1.6 billion followers world wide "isn't a religion" doesn't mean it "isn't a religion".

It's a pretty bad precedent to even think of setting - once you start deciding something isn't a religion, your own may be next.

 

[Kondor3]

The only way to withdraw nonprofit status from mosques while leaving it intact for other belief-systems is to withdraw legal recognition of the religious status of Islam.

Ain't going to happen. Just because a few unhinged rightwing nuts decided within the last decade that a religion that has existed over 1300 years, with over 1.6 billion followers world wide "isn't a religion" doesn't mean it "isn't a religion".

It's a pretty bad precedent to even think of setting - once you start deciding something isn't a religion, your own may be next.

You had better pray to Allah that you're right, Coyote, but if The People want it badly enough, it will happen... the legal devices are of no consequence.

Oh, and, to your 1.6 billion Muslims... so what? Your opposites counter with 2.2 billion Christians; mostly residing in regions far more advanced, economically and militarily and technologically and societally than your pals.

 

[S.J.]

I prefer shutting them down altogether. They're nothing but recruitment centers for terrorists. Islam advocates murder and those who teach it do the same, therefore it should be outlawed.

Untrue. There really are peaceful Muslims in the world, just trying to live their lives like everyone else. Granted, most of them probably aren't fundamentalists, but they're out there. And if they're American citizens, then they have the same right to worship and exercise their freedom of religion as anyone else.

I'm sure there are probably members of the Satanic Church who don't engage in human sacrifice or animal sacrifice too. Should THEY be given tax exempt status as well and left alone to worship the way they see fit?

If they break no laws - why not?

When you say "they", what exactly do you mean? Some of them? All of them? And to which laws are you referring? Please elaborate.

 

[S.J.]

I prefer shutting them down altogether.

That won't happen because of a little something commonly referred to as the U.S Constitution.

Where in the Constitution does it say we have to allow, and give tax exempt status to an organization that advocates killing us?

 

[Arianrhod]

I prefer shutting them down altogether.

That won't happen because of a little something commonly referred to as the U.S Constitution.

Where in the Constitution does it say we have to allow, and give tax exempt status to an organization that advocates killing us?

Which mosque has issued such a statement?

 

[Telekat]

Where in the Constitution does it say we have to allow, and give tax exempt status to an organization that advocates killing us?

I never said the Constitution required we give them tax exemption, but it does prevent us from shuttingthem down. That would be a gross violation of the religious freedom guaranteed by the 1st amendment.

 

[S.J.]

I prefer shutting them down altogether.

That won't happen because of a little something commonly referred to as the U.S Constitution.

Where in the Constitution does it say we have to allow, and give tax exempt status to an organization that advocates killing us?

Which mosque has issued such a statement?

You're kidding, right? They have to make a public statement?
FBI: 10% of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad

 

[Arianrhod]

I prefer shutting them down altogether.

That won't happen because of a little something commonly referred to as the U.S Constitution.

Where in the Constitution does it say we have to allow, and give tax exempt status to an organization that advocates killing us?

Which mosque has issued such a statement?

You're kidding, right? They have to make a public statement?
FBI: 10% of U.S. Mosques Preach Jihad

Kindly link to the original statement from the FBI, not Newsmax.

 

[Coyote]

The only way to withdraw nonprofit status from mosques while leaving it intact for other belief-systems is to withdraw legal recognition of the religious status of Islam.

Ain't going to happen. Just because a few unhinged rightwing nuts decided within the last decade that a religion that has existed over 1300 years, with over 1.6 billion followers world wide "isn't a religion" doesn't mean it "isn't a religion".

It's a pretty bad precedent to even think of setting - once you start deciding something isn't a religion, your own may be next.

You had better pray to Allah that you're right, Coyote, but if The People want it badly enough, it will happen... the legal devices are of no consequence.

Oh, and, to your 1.6 billion Muslims... so what? Your opposites counter with 2.2 billion Christians; mostly residing in regions far more advanced, economically and militarily and technologically and societally than your pals.

The people would have to overturn the Constitutions that protect every one of us American citizens.

You completely missed my point. It was not to set a "counter" of who is more or better or what. It's to point out that people like you don't get to decide what is or what isn't a religion, particularly when you are talking about faiths that originated over a thousand years before you were even concieved of.

MY PALS are any American citizens for whom you would try to deny their fundamental constitutional rights because you "don't like" them, not because they've done anything wrong under the law.

 

[S.J.]

Where in the Constitution does it say we have to allow, and give tax exempt status to an organization that advocates killing us?

I never said the Constitution required we give them tax exemption, but it does prevent us from shuttingthem down. That would be a gross violation of the religious freedom guaranteed by the 1st amendment.

Ok, where in the Constitution does it say we have to allow organizations that advocate the killing of Americans to remain in business in the United States just because they hide behind the guise of religion?

 

[bendog]

this idea was floated around a few years ago by the left. The said it wasn't an attempt to destroy churches by cutting into their revenue. I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Why not remove the tax exempt status of mosque?

You should try. After getting your butts hurt in court, your cries would be amusing

 

[Coyote]

I prefer shutting them down altogether. They're nothing but recruitment centers for terrorists. Islam advocates murder and those who teach it do the same, therefore it should be outlawed.

Untrue. There really are peaceful Muslims in the world, just trying to live their lives like everyone else. Granted, most of them probably aren't fundamentalists, but they're out there. And if they're American citizens, then they have the same right to worship and exercise their freedom of religion as anyone else.

I'm sure there are probably members of the Satanic Church who don't engage in human sacrifice or animal sacrifice too. Should THEY be given tax exempt status as well and left alone to worship the way they see fit?

If they break no laws - why not?

When you say "they", what exactly do you mean? Some of them? All of them? And to which laws are you referring? Please elaborate.

I had no idea this was such a difficult concept for you.

"They" - the "they" you are referring to as "members of the Satanic Church who don't engage in human sacrifice or animal sacrifice".

As for which ones - all of them within the restriction I outlined.

As for which laws - any that would cause a removal of a tax exempt status from a religious organization - for example, if they were a for-profit religion.

 

[Coyote]

Where in the Constitution does it say we have to allow, and give tax exempt status to an organization that advocates killing us?

I never said the Constitution required we give them tax exemption, but it does prevent us from shuttingthem down. That would be a gross violation of the religious freedom guaranteed by the 1st amendment.

Ok, where in the Constitution does it say we have to allow organizations that advocate the killing of Americans to remain in business in the United States just because they hide behind the guise of religion?

The Muslim faith does not advocate the killing of Americans.

 

[koshergrl]

The only way to withdraw nonprofit status from mosques while leaving it intact for other belief-systems is to withdraw legal recognition of the religious status of Islam.

Sounds like a plan.

 

[S.J.]

I prefer shutting them down altogether. They're nothing but recruitment centers for terrorists. Islam advocates murder and those who teach it do the same, therefore it should be outlawed.

Untrue. There really are peaceful Muslims in the world, just trying to live their lives like everyone else. Granted, most of them probably aren't fundamentalists, but they're out there. And if they're American citizens, then they have the same right to worship and exercise their freedom of religion as anyone else.

I'm sure there are probably members of the Satanic Church who don't engage in human sacrifice or animal sacrifice too. Should THEY be given tax exempt status as well and left alone to worship the way they see fit?

If they break no laws - why not?

When you say "they", what exactly do you mean? Some of them? All of them? And to which laws are you referring? Please elaborate.

I had no idea this was such a difficult concept for you.

"They" - the "they" you are referring to as "members of the Satanic Church who don't engage in human sacrifice or animal sacrifice".

As for which ones - all of them within the restriction I outlined.

As for which laws - any that would cause a removal of a tax exempt status from a religious organization - for example, if they were a for-profit religion.

So, you are in favor of giving the Satanic Church tax exempt status?

 

[S.J.]

Where in the Constitution does it say we have to allow, and give tax exempt status to an organization that advocates killing us?

I never said the Constitution required we give them tax exemption, but it does prevent us from shuttingthem down. That would be a gross violation of the religious freedom guaranteed by the 1st amendment.

Ok, where in the Constitution does it say we have to allow organizations that advocate the killing of Americans to remain in business in the United States just because they hide behind the guise of religion?

The Muslim faith does not advocate the killing of Americans.

No, it just advocates the killing of non-muslims, which is the overwhelming majority of Americans.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Really? What government services are charities getting that are paid by income taxes? And conversely, what are charities ADDING to the community that businesses don't, which you are willing to do away with simply because you think it's "unfair" that people who make no profit aren't still charged as though they do?

Let's see

Roads, water, sewer etc etc are all public services provided by government agencies anyone and everyone who uses them should pay like everyone else

Being exempt from not only federal taxes but the myriad of state taxes means we are all paying for them

And like I said if they truly show zero profit any year then they will pay no income taxes will they?

There are a million and one ways to show zero profit and these tax exempt businesses have been taking advantage of them for way too long

Where the fuck do YOU live, that water and sewer are paid for by taxes, rather than by utility bills?

Roads are paid for by property taxes and taxes on gasoline. Last time I checked, non-profit organizations pay the same prices for gasoline in their vehicles that everyone else does. Most non-profits also pay property taxes. Whether or not they don't depends on the laws of their state and municipality, and what type of non-profit they are. For example, a Catholic-run emergency shelter for children would not pay property taxes, as an exchange for relieving the government of some of ITS obligation for running that service (yes, I know that governments still run emergency shelters for children. However, the existence of privately-run shelters expands the facilities available to them without expanding the government's expenses). Whether or not a church's property is taxed or not depends on what the property is and what use it is put to.

And like I said, why in the hell would you make a charity spend more time and money on accounting as though they're a for-profit that simply had a bad year, rather than tailoring their accounting to what they actually ARE, a charity that has no intention of "profiting"? What the fuck kind of logic is THAT? Should an organization that exists to provide housing for the homeless spend its money on accounting staff to produce profit-and-loss, income, and equity statements, etc. simply to show that it doesn't engage in any of that, or should it spend its money on housing the homeless? People already get outraged by charities that spend half or more of every dollar on "administrative costs", and you're suggesting that that should be increased, to what purpose? Simply so that YOU can love your rump roast, knowing that churches aren't "special"?

A lot of that is subsidized by other local taxes

Non profits are exempt from property and sales taxes both of which are paid into the general fund of a state to pay for services everyone in the state uses so they should pay as wellAnd by treating charities like every other business they would not have to jump through more hoops they would simply lose their special treatment and have to jump through the same hoops every other business does

Yeah, yeah, you say it wouldn't be any more trouble, so it just wouldn't be, because you say so. Can you substantiate any of it? No, it JUST WOULDN'T BE! We just stop calling them special! That's all it involves! Because I say so!

Really? What government services are charities getting that are paid by income taxes? And conversely, what are charities ADDING to the community that businesses don't, which you are willing to do away with simply because you think it's "unfair" that people who make no profit aren't still charged as though they do?

Let's see

Roads, water, sewer etc etc are all public services provided by government agencies anyone and everyone who uses them should pay like everyone else

Being exempt from not only federal taxes but the myriad of state taxes means we are all paying for them

And like I said if they truly show zero profit any year then they will pay no income taxes will they?

There are a million and one ways to show zero profit and these tax exempt businesses have been taking advantage of them for way too long

Where the fuck do YOU live, that water and sewer are paid for by taxes, rather than by utility bills?

Roads are paid for by property taxes and taxes on gasoline. Last time I checked, non-profit organizations pay the same prices for gasoline in their vehicles that everyone else does. Most non-profits also pay property taxes. Whether or not they don't depends on the laws of their state and municipality, and what type of non-profit they are. For example, a Catholic-run emergency shelter for children would not pay property taxes, as an exchange for relieving the government of some of ITS obligation for running that service (yes, I know that governments still run emergency shelters for children. However, the existence of privately-run shelters expands the facilities available to them without expanding the government's expenses). Whether or not a church's property is taxed or not depends on what the property is and what use it is put to.

And like I said, why in the hell would you make a charity spend more time and money on accounting as though they're a for-profit that simply had a bad year, rather than tailoring their accounting to what they actually ARE, a charity that has no intention of "profiting"? What the fuck kind of logic is THAT? Should an organization that exists to provide housing for the homeless spend its money on accounting staff to produce profit-and-loss, income, and equity statements, etc. simply to show that it doesn't engage in any of that, or should it spend its money on housing the homeless? People already get outraged by charities that spend half or more of every dollar on "administrative costs", and you're suggesting that that should be increased, to what purpose? Simply so that YOU can love your rump roast, knowing that churches aren't "special"?

A lot of that is subsidized by other local taxes

Non profits are exempt from property and sales taxes both of which are paid into the general fund of a state to pay for services everyone in the state uses so they should pay as well

And churches aren't special and by having laws on the books that gives special treatment to churches is a violation of the fist amendment

And by treating charities like every other business they would not have to jump through more hoops they would simply lose their special treatment and have to jump through the same hoops every other business does

In other words, "I don't hear any points, because I don't want to address them. I'm right, and no amount of proof will refute that, I'm just right and all I have to do is say so!"

We're done here. You can no more debate a bigot than you can debate a pig, and for the same reasons: they're not very bright, and they enjoy wallowing in their own muck too much to make them stop.

So it's your contention that non profits have fewer tax hoops to jump through than any other business?

Why don't you prove that?

Been there, did that, moved on from your willful blindness.

You can lead a bigot to facts, but you can't make him think.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Untrue. There really are peaceful Muslims in the world, just trying to live their lives like everyone else. Granted, most of them probably aren't fundamentalists, but they're out there. And if they're American citizens, then they have the same right to worship and exercise their freedom of religion as anyone else.

I'm sure there are probably members of the Satanic Church who don't engage in human sacrifice or animal sacrifice too. Should THEY be given tax exempt status as well and left alone to worship the way they see fit?

If they break no laws - why not?

When you say "they", what exactly do you mean? Some of them? All of them? And to which laws are you referring? Please elaborate.

I had no idea this was such a difficult concept for you.

"They" - the "they" you are referring to as "members of the Satanic Church who don't engage in human sacrifice or animal sacrifice".

As for which ones - all of them within the restriction I outlined.

As for which laws - any that would cause a removal of a tax exempt status from a religious organization - for example, if they were a for-profit religion.

So, you are in favor of giving the Satanic Church tax exempt status?

Dunno about Coyote, but I'm in favor of applying the law equally to everyone. If the Satanists want to meet the requirements to be a non-profit, then they're welcome to do so.

You really, genuinely can't wrap your brain around the idea that just because YOU want to pick and choose and judge according to what you personally approve of, that doesn't mean everyone else is like you, huh?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Churches arent charities . They may do some charity work but they ain't charities .

They actually are, but no one actually required that they be. There are many organizations that qualify as tax-exempt non-profits which are not technically charities.

Please don't attempt to blur lines and bait-and-switch with bad language choices. That only works on people as dumb as you are.