So What Do You Think Is A Fair And Decent Wage?...

[gallantwarrior]

You two apparently are quite intelligent. Not all are. I know you get that. I'm not sure others on the board do.

Not everybody is management material. Or office material. Not all graduated high school. People make mistakes, bad life choices, or just never escape the life level they were born to.

I do not believe it follows, "And therefore, you must suffer further, because corporate greed is the price you (and the government) will pay."

I will ALWAYS believe that if somebody is working 40 hours, they deserve to be able to afford the basics.

NOT have to be on welfare, because - and this is completely ridiculous - they qualify.

That brings us back to the question: What are "the basics"?

Really? You don't understand what "basics" must be met to live financially independent of others? Be it government, parent or friends/family.
Things like rent, food, utilities, insurance, clothing, gasoline. Those are basic to independent living in America. For lower wage earners, it usually takes two people working full time to meet the basics. Even then it is pay check to pay check with no room for error or illness or accident.

You are just goofing on that right? You have lived on your own before? Ever been a low wage earner?

You're kidding, or course?
I've lived on my own for...going on 50 years. And yes, at one time I earned what some consider "low income". I also served 20 years in the military, now generally an overly generous income. But you know what, I always made and followed a budget that stayed within my means. I drove modest, second-hand cars, shopped and priced things, and if I wanted something "big ticket", I saved for it. Of course, I've never smoked (that's a big budget-eating expense), and I only drink modestly. I still buy most of my clothing at second-hand stores. I don't watch TV, so am not burdened with the excess expense of some cable service. And if you cannot afford name brand labels, new off the rack, you don't buy them. You learn to shop wisely for groceries and to forgo all the nice pre-packaged trash. There are lots of things that too many people consider "basics" that are not. Food, clothing, shelter...those are the basics. In one way, the profligate spending in government is a direct reflection of our society and the way many people think they should have everything without necessarily having worked for and earned it. Sad, really. There's little value to something you haven't paid for with your own sweat.

 

[RKMBrown]

You two apparently are quite intelligent. Not all are. I know you get that. I'm not sure others on the board do.

Not everybody is management material. Or office material. Not all graduated high school. People make mistakes, bad life choices, or just never escape the life level they were born to.

I do not believe it follows, "And therefore, you must suffer further, because corporate greed is the price you (and the government) will pay."

I will ALWAYS believe that if somebody is working 40 hours, they deserve to be able to afford the basics.

NOT have to be on welfare, because - and this is completely ridiculous - they qualify.

That brings us back to the question: What are "the basics"?

Really? You don't understand what "basics" must be met to live financially independent of others? Be it government, parent or friends/family.
Things like rent, food, utilities, insurance, clothing, gasoline. Those are basic to independent living in America. For lower wage earners, it usually takes two people working full time to meet the basics. Even then it is pay check to pay check with no room for error or illness or accident.

You are just goofing on that right? You have lived on your own before? Ever been a low wage earner?

Rent, utilities, insurance, gasoline,... these are not basics, nor is independent living or living on your own. You are defining the American Dream, not basics.

 

[OODA_Loop]

A menial/minimum wage job is not supposed to provide for your every need in life.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The right wouldn't mind if we brought back $1 per hour jobs and sweat shops.

 

[OODA_Loop]

The right wouldn't mind if we brought back $1 per hour jobs and sweat shops.

The left wouldn't mind if a single job was ever created to allow the poor to rise above by their own hand.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The right wouldn't mind if we brought back $1 per hour jobs and sweat shops.

And you dream of forced labor camps for your political opponents.

 

[dblack]

The right wouldn't mind if we brought back $1 per hour jobs and sweat shops.

Libertarians wouldn't mind if it were up to employees whether they wanted to take such jobs or not. Why should government tell us which jobs we're allowed to work?

 

[zeke]

That brings us back to the question: What are "the basics"?

Really? You don't understand what "basics" must be met to live financially independent of others? Be it government, parent or friends/family.
Things like rent, food, utilities, insurance, clothing, gasoline. Those are basic to independent living in America. For lower wage earners, it usually takes two people working full time to meet the basics. Even then it is pay check to pay check with no room for error or illness or accident.

You are just goofing on that right? You have lived on your own before? Ever been a low wage earner?

Rent, utilities, insurance, gasoline,... these are not basics, nor is independent living or living on your own. You are defining the American Dream, not basics.

That's your dream RKM Brown, living pay check to pay check. You are living the dream RKM, living the dream.

But when you declare that a roof over your head, food to eat and gasoline to get yourself to work and back are not basics in America, you have PROVED yourself to be one stupid mother fucker. Congratulations.

btw you stupid fuck. The "Dream" is to own a home, send your kids to college and know that your kids and grand kids will most likely have a better quality of life with a rising standard of living than you do.

The Dream has become a lot harder to live. Thanks to people like you.

 

[zeke]

That brings us back to the question: What are "the basics"?

Really? You don't understand what "basics" must be met to live financially independent of others? Be it government, parent or friends/family.
Things like rent, food, utilities, insurance, clothing, gasoline. Those are basic to independent living in America. For lower wage earners, it usually takes two people working full time to meet the basics. Even then it is pay check to pay check with no room for error or illness or accident.

You are just goofing on that right? You have lived on your own before? Ever been a low wage earner?

You're kidding, or course?
I've lived on my own for...going on 50 years. And yes, at one time I earned what some consider "low income". I also served 20 years in the military, now generally an overly generous income. But you know what, I always made and followed a budget that stayed within my means. I drove modest, second-hand cars, shopped and priced things, and if I wanted something "big ticket", I saved for it. Of course, I've never smoked (that's a big budget-eating expense), and I only drink modestly. I still buy most of my clothing at second-hand stores. I don't watch TV, so am not burdened with the excess expense of some cable service. And if you cannot afford name brand labels, new off the rack, you don't buy them. You learn to shop wisely for groceries and to forgo all the nice pre-packaged trash. There are lots of things that too many people consider "basics" that are not. Food, clothing, shelter...those are the basics. In one way, the profligate spending in government is a direct reflection of our society and the way many people think they should have everything without necessarily having worked for and earned it. Sad, really. There's little value to something you haven't paid for with your own sweat.

Its good to be frugal. Goes back to the Puritan days of early America when being thrifty was a real attribute. I like being thrifty as well. Goes back to my hippie days.

What does that have to do to peoples need to have a food, shelter and in this world, transportation of some sort. And the ability to pay for those things without you and I subsidizing them.

 

[Mac1958]

A menial/minimum wage job is not supposed to provide for your every need in life.

I'm just trying to get past the simplistic platitudes and to the numbers here. And I'm pretty sure my questions are reasonable, because at some point they will need to be addressed.

When calculating PRECISELY what a "living wage" should be, I'd love to know the variables you're using:

• How many people should this "living wage" support? A family of two, three, four, five?
• What happens if both parents are working full time? How do they affect this wage?
• What happens if they divorce? Should their individual wages change?
• What happens if they have another kid? They get a raise for that?
• What happens if they've run up all kinds of ridiculous bills, do they get a raise for that?
• Doesn't a "living wage" differ between a family of four and a guy living with Mom & Dad? If so, what is your plan for addressing that?

Full disclosure: I've asked these questions before, but for some reason all I get are diversionary insults and (even more) platitudes.

The simplistic complaints are fine and all, and they really show how much you "care", by golly. But maybe it's time you get to the details. I have no doubt that you have thought all this stuff through.

Come on, folks, get serious and answer some serious questions. For a change.

.

 

[RKMBrown]

Really? You don't understand what "basics" must be met to live financially independent of others? Be it government, parent or friends/family.
Things like rent, food, utilities, insurance, clothing, gasoline. Those are basic to independent living in America. For lower wage earners, it usually takes two people working full time to meet the basics. Even then it is pay check to pay check with no room for error or illness or accident.

You are just goofing on that right? You have lived on your own before? Ever been a low wage earner?

Rent, utilities, insurance, gasoline,... these are not basics, nor is independent living or living on your own. You are defining the American Dream, not basics.

That's your dream RKM Brown, living pay check to pay check. You are living the dream RKM, living the dream.

But when you declare that a roof over your head, food to eat and gasoline to get yourself to work and back are not basics in America, you have PROVED yourself to be one stupid mother fucker. Congratulations.

btw you stupid fuck. The "Dream" is to own a home, send your kids to college and know that your kids and grand kids will most likely have a better quality of life with a rising standard of living than you do.

The Dream has become a lot harder to live. Thanks to people like you.

Are you mentally handicapped? Or just a dumb ass?

My American dream was to become a Software Engineer to have fun while making millions; marry my girl, she's fantastic; have a family of 2-3 kids, my three kids are great; and then Semi-Retire as an independently wealthy contractor at 50 on nice ranch in Texas.

I'd tell you the rest of my story but I don't want to jinx it.

You'll note that I did not declare "that a roof over your head, food to eat and gasoline to get yourself to work and back are not basics in America." That was you making stupid shit up. What I said is "rent, utilities, insurance, gasoline,..." these are not basics. Are you so stupid you need a road map to explain the differences between what I said and what you said?

 

[Kosh]

Still have not seen the far left address what a living wage is based on only needing shelter, food and clothing.

 

[zeke]

Rent, utilities, insurance, gasoline,... these are not basics, nor is independent living or living on your own. You are defining the American Dream, not basics.

That's your dream RKM Brown, living pay check to pay check. You are living the dream RKM, living the dream.

But when you declare that a roof over your head, food to eat and gasoline to get yourself to work and back are not basics in America, you have PROVED yourself to be one stupid mother fucker. Congratulations.

btw you stupid fuck. The "Dream" is to own a home, send your kids to college and know that your kids and grand kids will most likely have a better quality of life with a rising standard of living than you do.

The Dream has become a lot harder to live. Thanks to people like you.

Are you mentally handicapped? Or just a dumb ass?

My American dream was to become a Software Engineer to have fun while making millions; marry my girl, she's fantastic; have a family of 2-3 kids, my three kids are great; and then Semi-Retire as an independently wealthy contractor at 50 on nice ranch in Texas.

I'd tell you the rest of my story but I don't want to jinx it.

You'll note that I did not declare "that a roof over your head, food to eat and gasoline to get yourself to work and back are not basics in America." That was you making stupid shit up. What I said is "rent, utilities, insurance, gasoline,..." these are not basics. Are you so stupid you need a road map to explain the differences between what I said and what you said?

Because I said "in America". WTF? Road map??

Hey, I think you might have done something that I didn't think was going to happen. I am going to find out how to use that "ignore" button. And I am going to note RKMBrown, to stupid to have further communication with.

Good God your are dumb. But kinda funny....road map to explain...lmao.

Made millions? Only if you won the lotto.

 

[zeke]

Still have not seen the far left address what a living wage is based on only needing shelter, food and clothing.

Seeing as how you must live with your parents as well, let me explain.

Find out how much to rent a cheap, bad part of town apartment. Figure out how much you need for groceries. Utilities. etc. How much gas will you have to by to get to and from work. Got kids, daycare. Need insurance for the car at least. All this can be found by looking in various places including the Internet, newspapers etc.

When you get these numbers together you will have determined how much money you need to spend to supply your basic needs of food, shelter, transportation etc.

Then figure out what the least amount of money your could earn that would pay these expenses.

You will then have your minimum wage to survive without government, parental or friends/family carrying your ass.

Why is it that none of your Republicans can figure out the minimum amount of money you would have to earn to survive in the area you live in? It ain't rocket science.

Don't you all know anyone barely getting by? Find out what they earn.

 

[BlackSand]

Made millions? Only if you won the lotto.

You don't have a clue how many people have made a million bucks in less than 5 years without winning the lottery or on Wall Street.
In fact most people don't know that right now in the current economy ... If you have a good idea and a halfway decent business plan ... Just about any bank will loan you money.
If you don't trust the banks ... There are community websites where you can pitch a product and gain investors willing to invest anywhere from tens to thousands of dollars.

The people who sit and bitch never win anything.
.

 

[RKMBrown]

That's your dream RKM Brown, living pay check to pay check. You are living the dream RKM, living the dream.

But when you declare that a roof over your head, food to eat and gasoline to get yourself to work and back are not basics in America, you have PROVED yourself to be one stupid mother fucker. Congratulations.

btw you stupid fuck. The "Dream" is to own a home, send your kids to college and know that your kids and grand kids will most likely have a better quality of life with a rising standard of living than you do.

The Dream has become a lot harder to live. Thanks to people like you.

Are you mentally handicapped? Or just a dumb ass?

My American dream was to become a Software Engineer to have fun while making millions; marry my girl, she's fantastic; have a family of 2-3 kids, my three kids are great; and then Semi-Retire as an independently wealthy contractor at 50 on nice ranch in Texas.

I'd tell you the rest of my story but I don't want to jinx it.

You'll note that I did not declare "that a roof over your head, food to eat and gasoline to get yourself to work and back are not basics in America." That was you making stupid shit up. What I said is "rent, utilities, insurance, gasoline,..." these are not basics. Are you so stupid you need a road map to explain the differences between what I said and what you said?

Because I said "in America". WTF? Road map??

Hey, I think you might have done something that I didn't think was going to happen. I am going to find out how to use that "ignore" button. And I am going to note RKMBrown, to stupid to have further communication with.

Good God your are dumb. But kinda funny....road map to explain...lmao.

Made millions? Only if you won the lotto.

Here's your road map dufus:
1) Rent is not necessarily a roof over your head, nor is rent a requirement for a roof over your head.
2) I did not say a single thing about food, you did not me ass hole.
3) Gasoline to get yourself to work and back, is not needed if you work from home dumb ass.

I'm dumb? Well if responding to stupid posters like you makes me dumb then you may have a point.

No, I did not win the lotto... just a long run of hard work, making fair to decent money. Millions are not what they used to be.

 

[Indeependent]

Software Engineer

Are you an actual Engineer or just another coder with a dream?

 

[RKMBrown]

Made millions? Only if you won the lotto.

You don't have a clue how many people have made a million bucks in less than 5 years without winning the lottery or on Wall Street.
In fact most people don't know that right now in the current economy ... If you have a good idea and a halfway decent business plan ... Just about any bank will loan you money.
If you don't trust the banks ... There are community websites where you can pitch a product and gain investors willing to invest anywhere from tens to thousands of dollars.

The people who sit and bitch never win anything.
.

Almost all of my peers were making a million every 3-4years... I got tired of working the long hours and paying penalty taxes for it and opted out of that lifestyle. Now I work for a helluva lot more an hour but less hours and less taxes. Happy as a clam-shell I am.

 

[BlackSand]

Made millions? Only if you won the lotto.

You don't have a clue how many people have made a million bucks in less than 5 years without winning the lottery or on Wall Street.
In fact most people don't know that right now in the current economy ... If you have a good idea and a halfway decent business plan ... Just about any bank will loan you money.
If you don't trust the banks ... There are community websites where you can pitch a product and gain investors willing to invest anywhere from tens to thousands of dollars.

The people who sit and bitch never win anything.
.

Almost all of my peers were making a million every 3-4years... I got tired of working the long hours and paying penalty taxes for it and opted out of that lifestyle. Now I work for a helluva lot more an hour but less hours and less taxes. Happy as a clam-shell I am.

I can understand that ... But I hate it when people act like it is impossible to do.
You make sacrifices ... You don't have a lot of free time ... But you can make some money honestly and doing something you love to do.

Once you get enough built up ... You can sell what you built ... Invest or open another business more hand's-off ... Pay someone that is worth a damn what they are worth to run your business ... And take it easy making more.

.

 

[RKMBrown]

Are you an actual Engineer or just another coder with a dream?

I was building/designing electronic projects from scratch at 10, started writing code on a heath kit computer when I was 13. I was hacking bbses in HS over my modem before hacking was a term in the vernacular. I got my degree in Math, but focused on all the computer and engineering classes they offered. I wrote all the Insurance Software for a company I started when I was 25 that built custom Agency Management systems, accounting, rating, policy management the works. I sold that company when I turned 30. I went to work for a large firm working on systems software. I've led development teams on Operating Systems, Java Virtual Machines, Web Browsers, Web Servers, Application Servers, Satellite Software, Business Integration... yada yada. I'm good with about a dozen programming languages, and I have more software patents than I care to mention.