So What Happened To Blacks After Slavery?

[katsteve2012]

As far as your perception that he personally blames you for something from 200 years ago, have you asked him directly if he does?

I have.

Unfortunately, he's too big a cowardly pussy to give me a direct answer. Based on the content of his numerous posts here, though, it's clear that he does...

I didn't see that. Maybe you can repost him actually stating that "you are personally responsible for what happened 200 years ago", then I can comment.

Reread the bold part above...

That being said, I am assuming that you don't actually think that ALL blacks are cowards?

Of course not, because I'm not stupid enough to believe generalizations as IM2 is.

Do you believe that I, as a middle aged white guy who's realized a fair degree of success in his life, is somehow responsible for what the US government did to black 200 years ago?

If not, I would challenge to engage IM2 and tell him he needs to tone down his idiotic "whitey's to blame" rhetoric, because it doesn't allow, at all, for reasonable conversation...

What I read in bold, was not him actually stating that you PERSONALLY are to blame for what happened 200 years ago.

Speaking for myself, I don't know you, so I cannot attest to what you actually believe, and can only go on what I read.

As far as I go, it would be a chronological stretch to assign personal responsibility to you or anyone else here for what occurred 200 years ago.

On the flipside, there are some here who were likely around during the Jim Crow era, which didn't end until 1964, that will swear that before the ink was even dry on the civil rights act, that they became victims of what they call "reverse discrimination". Some even have gone so far as to state that literally EVERY white citizen in America who was born in 1964 or later has been a victim of discrimination that favors no one else except blacks.



And that any measure of success by blacks at all since that legislation was signed, has been at their expense.

As a post middle aged, retired black male that had some success as well, I disagree.

I paid my own way through college, as well as my son and daughters way. And didn't receive any of the mythical "free shit" that is often talked about here.

I took the liberty of reading more posts in this thread, and most of what I see him doing is outlining how some past systemic injustices have contributed to the condition of generational poverty in some black families.

I think that there are some here who take it as a personal attack.

After all, the thread title is "what happened to blacks after slavery?".

JMO.

Have you read some of the things he's labeled me as simply because I disagreed with him on the reasons behind The Great Migration? With all due respect, Katsteve...it's hard to take something like that any way BUT as a personal attack!

Frankly no I have not. I don't read every post here, because it becomes entirely fatiguing after awhile.

I do recall that I actually agreed with you on some points regarding the industrializing of the north creating more factory jobs due to the start of WW1, and I also believe in part due to the institution of Jim Crow and a newer generation of blacks who were further removed from slavery finding the courage to leave it and the south behind.

 

[IM2]

It does got old reading the whites here that want to deny that racism had anything to do with things. For example oldstyle wants to make economics the sole reason why blacks moved north. But why were economic conditions so bad for blacks in the south that they decided to move north en masse?

Because if it was not racism and only the pay was better for jobs up north, why didn't millions of whites leave the south for those better paying jobs too? The war was over in 1920.

"Between 1910 and 1970, an estimated six million African-Americans migrated from southern states to northern and Midwestern cities.

Attempting to escape racism and Jim Crow laws of the South, African-Americans found work in northern and western steel mills, tanneries, and railroad companies."

Causes of the Great Migration: Searching for the Promised Land

Learn about the various causes of the Great Migration, when millions of African Americans migrated from southern states to northern and Midwestern cities.

www.thoughtco.com

Economics was only part of the reason, not the entire reason and the economic conditions of blacks in the south was due to racism.

 

[Canon Shooter]

It does got old reading the whites here that want to deny that racism had anything to do with things. For example oldstyle wants to make economics the sole reason why blacks moved north. But why were economic conditions so bad for blacks in the south that they decided to move north en masse?

Because if it was not racism and only the pay was better for jobs up north, why didn't millions of whites leave the south for those better paying jobs too? The war was over in 1920.

"Between 1910 and 1970, an estimated six million African-Americans migrated from southern states to northern and Midwestern cities.

Attempting to escape racism and Jim Crow laws of the South, African-Americans found work in northern and western steel mills, tanneries, and railroad companies."

Causes of the Great Migration: Searching for the Promised Land

Learn about the various causes of the Great Migration, when millions of African Americans migrated from southern states to northern and Midwestern cities.

www.thoughtco.com

Economics was only part of the reason, not the entire reason and the economic conditions of blacks in the south was due to racism.

I've not read a single thing here that says racism didn't exist, or that white didn't treat blacks like shit, or anything similar.

What I have read, conversely, is the whining of some colored guy who thinks he should get money because his grandfather's grandfather was a slave...

 

[22lcidw]

It does got old reading the whites here that want to deny that racism had anything to do with things. For example oldstyle wants to make economics the sole reason why blacks moved north. But why were economic conditions so bad for blacks in the south that they decided to move north en masse?

Because if it was not racism and only the pay was better for jobs up north, why didn't millions of whites leave the south for those better paying jobs too? The war was over in 1920.

"Between 1910 and 1970, an estimated six million African-Americans migrated from southern states to northern and Midwestern cities.

Attempting to escape racism and Jim Crow laws of the South, African-Americans found work in northern and western steel mills, tanneries, and railroad companies."

Causes of the Great Migration: Searching for the Promised Land

Learn about the various causes of the Great Migration, when millions of African Americans migrated from southern states to northern and Midwestern cities.

www.thoughtco.com

Economics was only part of the reason, not the entire reason and the economic conditions of blacks in the south was due to racism.

There was a saying by African Americans in the city I lived in. Last hired, first fired. When the manufacturing jobs left cities for other areas, blacks took a beating in employment. There were Liberal elites, Prog politicians including Pelosi's family in Baltimore who wooed them. There are many African Americans in those areas not happy campers from that.

 

[IM2]

It does got old reading the whites here that want to deny that racism had anything to do with things. For example oldstyle wants to make economics the sole reason why blacks moved north. But why were economic conditions so bad for blacks in the south that they decided to move north en masse?

Because if it was not racism and only the pay was better for jobs up north, why didn't millions of whites leave the south for those better paying jobs too? The war was over in 1920.

"Between 1910 and 1970, an estimated six million African-Americans migrated from southern states to northern and Midwestern cities.

Attempting to escape racism and Jim Crow laws of the South, African-Americans found work in northern and western steel mills, tanneries, and railroad companies."

Causes of the Great Migration: Searching for the Promised Land

Learn about the various causes of the Great Migration, when millions of African Americans migrated from southern states to northern and Midwestern cities.

www.thoughtco.com

Economics was only part of the reason, not the entire reason and the economic conditions of blacks in the south was due to racism.

I've not read a single thing here that says racism didn't exist, or that white didn't treat blacks like shit, or anything similar.

What I have read, conversely, is the whining of some colored guy who thinks he should get money because his grandfather's grandfather was a slave...

You have read nothing of the sort.

So What Happened To Blacks After Slavery?

Is the title of this thread.

 

[Canon Shooter]

So What Happened To Blacks After Slavery?

Is the title of this thread.

Bullshit, and I don't give a fuck what the title of the thread is.

In an earlier post, you stated "It's not just about reparations". Know what? That means it's about reparations!

Bring me a negro who was a slave and I'll bring you a white guy to pay him.

You, however, don't deserve shit...

 

[IM2]

Here we go with the I have a black friend who isn't like you based on an assumption made by a white idiot.

Yes, and that black friend calls you a ni**er.

That should tell you something about how you're presenting yourself here...

First off, I don't support what happened to Denny, but you don't seem able to talk about what caused the riots to begin with. The white cops beating down a black man that was handcuffed on video and the cops not being found guilty of a crime. Now until you can talk about that part, shut the fuck up.

The riots were started because South Central, for the most part, is populated by sub-human bipeds. Nothing justified those riots.

NOTHING.

Trust me when I say I was a shocked as your negro ass was when those cops were found innocent. I believed then, as I do now, that they should've been found guilty.

But the fact that they weren't didn't cause the riots. Negroes caused the riots. Of course, the funniest part about that was that they were so fucking stupid they tore up their own neighborhoods...

So tell your friend Darrel this son, I am a 59 year old black man successfully retired for the last 7 years after building 3 separate NFPS. Then tell him that because I held life. health, annuity, and stockbrokers licenses from 1992 until 2010, I was able to save and invest my money successfully so that now I can live off my earnings and not really have to work for anyone and do personal projects at my leisure for income today. I am not blaming anyone for shit punk, I am stating the mother fucking facts.

You blame whites for everything, and you wouldn't know a fact if it fell on you.

And Daryl couldn't give a flying fuck about what your alleged accomplishments are. He still thinks you're a ni**er because of how you conduct yourself and how you argue your so-called "points". According to Daryl, you're not a fine, upstanding black man because of your alleged accomplishments, you're a ni**er in spite of them...

You have said you don't believe in God, and that's on you, but I do. And because god has blessed me, I am required to fight for those who have less. Punks like you and your black sellout buddy don't seem to understand that spiritual concept. It's not about building great wealth then dying and ending up in hell. It is about building your treasure with the lord whereby you have an eternal income that never ends.

"Black sellout buddy"?

Ah yes, there it is. I knew it would come out. Why not refer to him as an Uncle Tom? You can't stand the fact that a black family is friends with a white guy. You deem them a "sellout". What a profoundly impressive piece of shit you are. How is he a sellout? Is he a sellout because he's successful? Is he a sellout because he's friends with a white guy?

You're just a fuckin' mouth breathing racist that serves no useful purpose...

I really could care less what anything calling you a friend has to say.

Let me skip all your ignorance and speak to you about your last paragraph. My wife is white. My son is half white. I think I don't have any problem with blacks being friends with white people. Your friend is not a sellout because he is sucessful. Your friend is a sellout because he has adopted a racist narrative and has chosen to denigrate other blacks who speak to the truth of our experience.

You have come in here and have ignored everything in this thread to argue about something I am not even talking about. You're an idiot. The title of this thread is:

So What Happened To Blacks After Slavery?

I have been posting recent activities and racist policies that have occurred in our lifetimes as well as our parents that have impacted us today. I started in the years directly after slavery because what was done then impacted this country well into the 1980's.

For example, Plessy v Ferguson was decided in 1896. Now a person like you will talk about how long ago that was, but the effects and policies that came from that law resulted in the implementation of the Brown decision in 1954, the voting rights and civil rights act of 1965 to name just a couple of decisions. Now for people like you, these dates mean things just poof and disappeared, yet it was not until the mid to late 1980's that segregation by open practice actually ended. That is not 200 years ago and it is within our lifetimes. Yet still today we see racial discrimination by whites against blacks relative to employment.

Here is one more example of how white racism creates a problem for blacks RIGHT NOW. It is common knowledge in the Black community that having a "Black" name can often lead to, for example, employment applications being discarded, and other similar forms of discrimination. People of all colors with black sounding names get rejected at the interview stage. The next few lines are from a white poster on an internet discussion forum.

“I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement I was an Engineer. The last 20 years of my career I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never short listed anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.”

“Since the Fortune 50 company I worked for had a stupid "affirmative action" hiring policies I never mentioned it to anybody and I always got away with it. A couple of times I was instructed to improve my departmental "diversity" demographics but I always ignored it and never got into any trouble. My stereotype is that anybody with a stupid ghetto Black ethnic name is probably worthless. I could have been wrong a couple of times but I was also probably right 99% of the time.

Glad I did it. I would do it again.”
​

This was posted by a recently retired member of this forum. The things he details are not from 200 years ago done to someone blacks great grandaddy by a white great grandaddy. They are modern occurrences and he is far from the only one who has done this.

Study Suggests Bias Against ‘Black’ Names On Resumes

Employers may be selecting or overlooking prospective job candidates for interviews based on their potential race as suggested by names, according to a recent study by two professors from the University of Chicago and Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).

To test whether employers might discriminate against job applicants with black-sounding names, associate professors of economics Marianne Bertrand with Chicagos Graduate School of Business and Sendhil Mullainathan with MIT conducted an elaborate experiment. They fabricated resumes for multiple phantom job seekers with common black and white names. The professors then sent out nearly 5,000 resumes for 1,300 job openings advertised in newspapers and on online job sites throughout Chicago and Boston.

We searched online and selected resumes of actual job seekers, says Bertrand. We then used those to create models for several different realistic resumes with the appropriate education and experience needed for typical job openings advertised in newspapers.

Most job openings for which the researchers sent resumes were administrative, sales, clerical and managerial positions. Bertrand and Mullainathan randomly assigned the applicants names common to either black men, black women, white men or white women and were careful not to send identical resumes to the same employer.

Bertrand and Mullainathan then tracked which of their applicants were called for job interviews. Bertrand said that more resumes were sent to Chicago area employers simply because it is the larger metropolitan area but added that the rate for interview requests was virtually identical between the two cities.

The results are a bit disturbing, the researchers admit. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be contacted for job interviews than those with typical black names.

Study Suggests Bias Against 'Black' Names On Resumes

Employers may be selecting or overlooking prospective job candidates for interviews based on their potential race as suggested by names, according to a recent study by two professors from the...

shrm.org

The Job Market Discriminates Against Black College Grads

The Job Market Discriminates Against Black College Grads

www.huffpost.com

Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination

Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.

www.nber.org

Study: anti-black hiring discrimination is as prevalent today as it was in 1989
Racism is alive and well in America.

By German Lopez@germanrlopez[email protected] Sep 18, 2017,

Americans are as racist as they were back in the late 1980s — at least in one crucial area: jobs.

A new study, by researchers at Northwestern University, Harvard, and the Institute for Social Research in Norway, looked at every available field experiment on hiring discrimination from 1989 through 2015. The researchers found that anti-black racism in hiring is unchanged since at least 1989, while anti-Latino racism may have decreased modestly.

They looked at two kinds of experiments: résumé and in-person audits. In the first, researchers send out résumés with similar levels of education, experience, and so on, but the names differ so some résumés have a stereotypically black or Latino name and the others have a stereotypically white name. In the second, applicants go in-person to apply for a job; they each share similar qualifications, but some are white while others are black or brown.

In total, the researchers produced 24 studies with 30 estimates of discrimination for black and Latino Americans, collectively representing more than 54,000 applications submitted for more than 25,000 positions.

They concluded that, on average, “white applicants receive 36% more callbacks than equally qualified African Americans” while “[w]hite applicants receive on average 24% more callbacks than Latinos.”

Study: anti-black hiring discrimination is as prevalent today as it was in 1989

Racism is alive and well in America.

www.vox.com

All of these are studies done THIS CENTURY.

The supreme court ruled issued this ruling in 2017, not 1817.

Supreme Court: Institutional Racism Is Real

DISPARATE IMPACT
In extending ‘disparate impact’ reasoning to housing cases, the court acknowledges that discrimination comes from more than just individual bad actors.


Jay Michaelson
Updated Apr. 14, 2017

June 25 will be remembered as a crucial day for civil rights—not because of the Obamacare decision, and not because of the not-yet-announced marriage decision. It’s because on Thursday the Supreme Court saved a crucial part of civil rights law.

You’d be forgiven for not knowing much about it. The principle, after all, is an obscure-sounding bit of legalese: “disparate impact.” But those words divided the court 5-4 on ideological lines, with Justice Kennedy writing to preserve, but restrict, the doctrine.

Here’s why it matters.

Most cases of discrimination—whether against women, African Americans, LGBT people, or other protected groups—are rarely as clear as they are in the movies. In media portrayals, discrimination is about evil individuals who fire someone because of who they are. But in real life, there’s rarely a smoking gun.

First, racists are usually not dumb enough to leave records of their prejudice. They find some other reason to fire the employee, or keep the family out of the neighborhood.

Second, and more importantly, discrimination is often systemic and structural, not individual. Often, not only is there no smoking gun, but there’s often no individual “bad actor.” Even neutral requirements—a high-school diploma for employment, a family-size limit for housing—can have huge de facto discriminatory effects, which may or may not be intentional.

That’s where “disparate impact” comes in. Under some civil rights laws, plaintiffs can prevail even without evidence of a specific discriminatory intention if they can show a disparate impact on the affected group.

That’s what happened in this case, Texas v. Inclusive Communities Project. A Texas state agency distributes tax credits given to developers to build low-income housing. The Inclusive Communities Project, a nonprofit, noticed that 92 percent of the credits ended up going to mostly non-white neighborhoods. And while about half of the applications in those neighborhoods were approved, the approval rate for mostly white neighborhoods was only 37 percent.

The end result? Public housing got built in black neighborhoods, and not in white ones.

That’s a classic case of disparate impact. The ICP didn’t have to go hunting for overt racism, which would be extremely hard to prove. Now, under disparate impact reasoning, the Texas agency had to prove that there were no better (i.e. non-discriminatory) alternatives—which it could not do. So, even without a specific smoking gun, the statistical data itself was enough for the policy to violate the Fair Housing Act—if disparate impact reasoning is allowed.

Supreme Court: Institutional Racism Is Real

In extending ‘disparate impact’ reasoning to housing cases, the court acknowledges that discrimination comes from more than just individual bad actors.

www.thedailybeast.com

So you and your black friend who called me the N word can suck each others dicks all you want but what I am showing you is the present. So it's best you stop lying to yourself and its damn sure best your 'black friend' do the same.

 

[IM2]

So What Happened To Blacks After Slavery?

Is the title of this thread.

Bullshit, and I don't give a fuck what the title of the thread is.

In an earlier post, you stated "It's not just about reparations". Know what? That means it's about reparations!

Bring me a negro who was a slave and I'll bring you a white guy to pay him.

You, however, don't deserve shit...

The title of the thread is important because that is the topic being discussed. But since you don't want to discuss the topic, there is a remedy that exists whereby you won't have to. Since the argument for reparations are not just for slavery your commentary means nothing. But this is not about reparations, I have not mentioned reparations and since you want to remain off topic, perhaps you can be given the opportunity to create your own thread where you can continue talking about what you want to.

 

[flacaltenn]

The problem you have here flacaltenn is that I am fully aware of the extent of the problem while you keep trying to tell me how much smaller the problem is according to your experience of never living it.

Hell no man.. The REAL racists that I told you were rare and relatively harmless, SOMETIMES attack and kill both jews and blacks.. You point to Black church in SC shooting. I point to the synagogue shooter in Pittsburgh... You and i can go toe to toe with EXAMPLES of these useless morons ACTING OUT.. But they HAVE no message or advertising for their cause. And intellectually, you and I can SLAY them on their basic racial, cultural, religious misconceptions.. I don't HAVE to go back to US policies that virtually ignored the Holocaust during the war - or the "property deed" issues -- because it DOES NO GOOD to the cause of MARGINALIZING AND DEFEATING the ACTUAL racists. INTELLECT is what defeats them.. Not history...

 

[IM2]

Tone policing (also tone trolling, tone argument, and tone fallacy) is an ad hominem (personal attack) and antidebate tactic based on criticizing a person for expressing emotion. Tone policing detracts from the validity of a statement by attacking the tone in which it was presented rather than the message itself.

Tone policing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No, We Won’t Calm Down – Tone Policing Is Just Another Way to Protect Privilege

No, We Won't Calm Down – Tone Policing Is Just Another Way to Protect Privilege - Everyday Feminism

“Calm down so we can discuss this like adults.” Ever said something like this in a conversation on oppression? Tone policing is no way to get justice, and this comic will help you understand exactly why.

everydayfeminism.com

 

[flacaltenn]

First, racists are usually not dumb enough to leave records of their prejudice. They find some other reason to fire the employee, or keep the family out of the neighborhood.

One of those "other reasons" is often "prior encounters" with that race, culture or religion.. People have bad experiences with someone of a certain race or creed and EXTEND that into their business. Might be FINE with MOST jews or mexicans or blacks, just does not want to REPEAT bad experiences..

If someone say with you attitude of BLAMING and victimhood, starts coming to work and blaming EVERYTHING on their skin color -- you might not want to have to SURVIVE that bad experience again.

 

[IM2]

The problem you have here flacaltenn is that I am fully aware of the extent of the problem while you keep trying to tell me how much smaller the problem is according to your experience of never living it.

Hell no man.. The REAL racists that I told you were rare and relatively harmless, SOMETIMES attack and kill both jews and blacks.. You point to Black church in SC shooting. I point to the synagogue shooter in Pittsburgh... You and i can go toe to toe with EXAMPLES of these useless morons ACTING OUT.. But they HAVE no message or advertising for their cause. And intellectually, you and I can SLAY them on their basic racial, cultural, religious misconceptions.. I don't HAVE to go back to US policies that virtually ignored the Holocaust during the war - or the "property deed" issues -- because it DOES NO GOOD to the cause of MARGINALIZING AND DEFEATING the ACTUAL racists. INTELLECT is what defeats them.. Not history...

No you really can't go toe to toe flacaltenn. This is not just about history, it is about revealing policies and the damage created by them.

 

[flacaltenn]

Tone policing (also tone trolling, tone argument, and tone fallacy) is an ad hominem (personal attack) and antidebate tactic based on criticizing a person for expressing emotion. Tone policing detracts from the validity of a statement by attacking the tone in which it was presented rather than the message itself.

Tone policing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No, We Won’t Calm Down – Tone Policing Is Just Another Way to Protect Privilege

No, We Won't Calm Down – Tone Policing Is Just Another Way to Protect Privilege - Everyday Feminism

“Calm down so we can discuss this like adults.” Ever said something like this in a conversation on oppression? Tone policing is no way to get justice, and this comic will help you understand exactly why.

everydayfeminism.com

OMG -- An actual in post DEMONSTRATION... Lots of chanting.. VERY amusing, but I'm not impressed with "political correctness enforcement" by shouting people down.. That's why I'm at USMB.. Because the Admin is not gonna come in and close down a discussion because SOMEONE got "U N C O M F O R T Able

 

[IM2]

First, racists are usually not dumb enough to leave records of their prejudice. They find some other reason to fire the employee, or keep the family out of the neighborhood.

One of those "other reasons" is often "prior encounters" with that race, culture or religion.. People have bad experiences with someone of a certain race or creed and EXTEND that into their business. Might be FINE with MOST jews or mexicans or blacks, just does not want to REPEAT bad experiences..

If someone say with you attitude of BLAMING and victimhood, starts coming to work and blaming EVERYTHING on their skin color -- you might not want to have to SURVIVE that bad experience again.

The problem with your description is you are using terms created by whites to minimize or deny the facts of racism. Your use of these terms is based on ignorance. No one goes anywhere blaming everything on their skin color. This is another ridiculous assertion made only by white racists and non whites suffering from internalized racism. There is such a thing as cause and effect, whites such as yourself do not seem to find the correlation between racism, psychological harm and the behaviors that can result

"Because most whites have not been trained to think with complexity about racism, and because it benefits white dominance not to do so, we have a very limited understanding of it (Kumashiro, 2009; LaDuke, 2009). We are the least likely to see, comprehend, or be invested in validating people of color’s assertions of racism and being honest about their consequences (King, 1991). At the same time, because of white social, economic, and political power within a white dominant culture, whites are the group in the position to legitimize people of color’s assertions of racism.Being in this position engenders a form of racial arrogance, and in this racial arrogance, whites have little compunction about debating the knowledge of people who have thought deeply about race through research, study, peer-reviewed scholarship, deep and on-going critical self-reflection, interracial relationships, and lived experience (Chinnery, 2008). This expertise is often trivialized and countered with simplistic platitudes, such as “people just need to see each other as individuals” or “see each other as humans” or “take personal responsibility.”

White lack of racial humility often leads to declarations of disagreement when in fact the problem is that we do not understand. Whites generally feel free to dismiss informed perspectives rather than have the humility to acknowledge that they are unfamiliar, reflect on them further, seek more information, or sustain a dialogue (DiAngelo & Sensoy, 2009)."

 

[IM2]

Tone policing (also tone trolling, tone argument, and tone fallacy) is an ad hominem (personal attack) and antidebate tactic based on criticizing a person for expressing emotion. Tone policing detracts from the validity of a statement by attacking the tone in which it was presented rather than the message itself.

Tone policing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No, We Won’t Calm Down – Tone Policing Is Just Another Way to Protect Privilege

No, We Won't Calm Down – Tone Policing Is Just Another Way to Protect Privilege - Everyday Feminism

“Calm down so we can discuss this like adults.” Ever said something like this in a conversation on oppression? Tone policing is no way to get justice, and this comic will help you understand exactly why.

everydayfeminism.com

OMG -- An actual in post DEMONSTRATION... Lots of chanting.. VERY amusing, but I'm not impressed with "political correctness enforcement" by shouting people down.. That's why I'm at USMB.. Because the Admin is not gonna come in and close down a discussion because SOMEONE got "U N C O M F O R T Able

What is political correctness flacaltenn? Because you have no problem censoring anything that make the white racists here feel uncomfortable or offended. You've closed down a couple of my threads because you thought something was offensive to whites instead of letting the idea go on.

Tone policing is used mostly by whites here, and you have used it, to try telling us blacks how we should communicate with them.

 

[Oldestyle]

It does got old reading the whites here that want to deny that racism had anything to do with things. For example oldstyle wants to make economics the sole reason why blacks moved north. But why were economic conditions so bad for blacks in the south that they decided to move north en masse?

Because if it was not racism and only the pay was better for jobs up north, why didn't millions of whites leave the south for those better paying jobs too? The war was over in 1920.

"Between 1910 and 1970, an estimated six million African-Americans migrated from southern states to northern and Midwestern cities.

Attempting to escape racism and Jim Crow laws of the South, African-Americans found work in northern and western steel mills, tanneries, and railroad companies."

Causes of the Great Migration: Searching for the Promised Land

Learn about the various causes of the Great Migration, when millions of African Americans migrated from southern states to northern and Midwestern cities.

www.thoughtco.com

Economics was only part of the reason, not the entire reason and the economic conditions of blacks in the south was due to racism.

Actually I never said economics was the only reason blacks moved north. I simply pointed out that "racism" wasn't the only reason like you claimed! As a wise man once said...follow the money! Blacks moved north primarily because of jobs that paid three times what they could make in the south, better working conditions and better living conditions. Was "racism" a contributing factor? Of course! Racism in the south was pervasive. Racism in the south was oppressive. But racism in the south isn't why millions of black Americans migrated north. They went north for a better life.

 

[Markle]

Haven't you ever watched Real Housewives of Atlanta???

Do THEY have a real estate issue?? More to this "housing" fetish you have than JUST racism... And you need to look at ALL the parameters...

BTW -- are those Real Housewives of Atlanta too white for you? Have they betrayed their culture?

I don't know what you call three home runs in a row but you sure hit them out of the park with sanity slapping the most racist among us upside of the head.

I have been a Realtor for over 45 years so I have boots on the ground experience with what you say.

THANK YOU!

 

[Markle]

Modern racism is among the most widespread forms of verbally expressed negative racial attitudes in the United States today. It thought to have replaced, to a substantial degree, older and more blatant forms of prejudice, characterized by beliefs that Blacks are a biologically inferior race and that institutionalized segregation and formal discrimination against Blacks are appropriate social policies. The civil rights movement made these outmoded beliefs largely socially unacceptable, and although conservative racism still exists in the United States, it largely replaced by modern racist beliefs.

Here's your sales and marketing problem in a nutshell man... Have you EVER had an intelligent conversation with a dedicated "modern racist"??? I'm not talking about you calling me a racist -- I mean a tiki torch carrying, hitler poster over their desk REAL modern racist???

I have.. DOZENS of times.. They have NOTHING TO SELL to the gen public.. They replicate by recruiting the ignorant.. Because only the ignorant can suspend their logic and decency FAR enough to GENERALIZE to "all black people as a race"... In modern times -- You got the product and message. White suburban kids rapping at a summer cookout. Big white bubbas wearing $75 NFL jerseys with their favorite black players name on it... At least EIGHT cable channels catering to your culture.

The "modern racist" is NOT A THREAT..,. They taunt, they troll you, they stir it up... But they cannot make the case that 21st American blacks are inferior any more.. No rational folk gonna buy that. They be doomed to extinction if they couldn't grab the bottom of the barrel to replicate themselves...

WORDS can be weapons of a sort. But taunts and flames are NOT POLICY.. And POLICY is what gets you into a better chair in a country like ours..

I've debated dozens of holocaust denying Nazis,.. They HAVE NO FACTS on Jew inferiority. In fact, the morons PREACH "Jew inferiority" as the SAME TIME they claim "Jews control everything".. They are not a threat because they CANT WIN ARGUMENTS. Winning INTELLECTUALLY is infinitely more powerful than chanting or demonstrating mindlessly in the streets..

Why spend so much time complaining about a tiny minority of white people who can do you no harm?? THAT'S why your sweating too much trying to FIX this.. Would be better if you promoted ROLE MODELS in your community to fix the existing problems from within... Use the intellectual force to FIX things internally. REPAIR race relations with honest discussions about CONSEQUENTIAL things like justice reform and improving the educational expectations for disadvantaged schools.. Screw babbling about idiots that dont want to play nice...

The problem you have here flacaltenn is that I am fully aware of the extent of the problem while you keep trying to tell me how much smaller the problem is according to your experience of never living it.

"Because most whites have not been trained to think with complexity about racism, and because it benefits white dominance not to do so, we have a very limited understanding of it (Kumashiro, 2009; LaDuke, 2009). We are the least likely to see, comprehend, or be invested in validating people of color’s assertions of racism and being honest about their consequences (King, 1991). At the same time, because of white social, economic, and political power within a white dominant culture, whites are the group in the position to legitimize people of color’s assertions of racism.Being in this position engenders a form of racial arrogance, and in this racial arrogance, whites have little compunction about debating the knowledge of people who have thought deeply about race through research, study, peer-reviewed scholarship, deep and on-going critical self-reflection, interracial relationships, and lived experience (Chinnery, 2008). This expertise is often trivialized and countered with simplistic platitudes, such as “people just need to see each other as individuals” or “see each other as humans” or “take personal responsibility.”

White lack of racial humility often leads to declarations of disagreement when in fact the problem is that we do not understand. Whites generally feel free to dismiss informed perspectives rather than have the humility to acknowledge that they are unfamiliar, reflect on them further, seek more information, or sustain a dialogue (DiAngelo & Sensoy, 2009)."

You do this all the time.

“The second key maneuver, which flowed naturally from the first, was to redefine racism itself. Confronted with civil rights headlines depicting unflattering portrayals of KKK rallies and jackbooted sheriffs, white authority transformed those damning images of white supremacy into the sole definition of racism. This simple but wickedly brilliant conceptual and linguistic shift served multiple purposes. First and foremost, it was conscience soothing. The whittling down of racism to sheet-wearing goons allowed a cloud of racial innocence to cover many whites who, although 'resentful of black progress' and determined to ensure that racial inequality remained untouched, could see and project themselves as the 'kind of upstanding white citizen(s)' who were 'positively outraged at the tactics of the Ku Klux Klan". The focus on the Klan also helped to designate racism as an individual aberration rather than something systemic, institutional and pervasive.”

― Carol Anderson, White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide
​

I am fully aware of the extent of the problem and this forum is a sociological petri dish that displays everything race scholars, psychiatrists and sociologists have presented about modern attitude by a specific segment of the white community. We have white fragility and various shades of aversive and modern racism going on in this forum. And flacaltenn, you need to understand that it is YOUR COMMUNITY that needs to be fixed. We did not create the racism, nor did we cause the damage that racism created. The root cause of our problem is white racism, therefore addressing the root cause is essential in order to reduce or solve our problems. I know what the problems are and the causes in the black community, you do not. Therefore you cannot suggest a solution to me that will address the root cause.

Let me provide you an example. White racism goes beyond words and the totality of having to fight against a system based in racism each day of your life takes a psychological toll those like you ignore.

“Bryant-Davis and Ocampo (2005) noted similar courses of psychopathology between rape victims and victims of racism. Both events are an assault on the personhood and integrity of the victim. Similar to rape victims, race-related trauma victims may respond with disbelief, shock, or dissociation, which can prevent them from responding to the incident in a healthy manner. The victim may then feel shame and self-blame because they were unable to respond or defend themselves, which may lead to low self-concept and self-destructive behaviors. In the same study, a parallel was drawn between race-related trauma victims and victims of domestic violence. Both survivors are made to feel shame over allowing themselves to be victimized. For instance, someone who may have experienced a racist incident may be told that if they are polite, work hard, and/or dress in a certain way, they will not encounter racism. When these rules are followed yet racism persists, powerlessness, hyper vigilance, and other symptoms associated with PTSD may develop or worsen (Bryant-Davis & Ocampo, 2005).”

I have posted this comment before, but I really don't think you understand the implications this statement is making. If you did, you would not continue trying to lecture me with your opinion on what blacks need to do and how small the number is of whites who are racists or hold similar views according to a white conservative citizen of a southern state who has consistently tried dismissing the scope of white racist behavior.

“On occasion, the emotional weight of racism can lead African Americans to engage in maladaptive coping, such as remaining in denial, engaging in substance use, aggression, self-blame – even in extreme cases suicide (i.e., Black Lives Matter activist Marshawn McCarrel) and terrorism (i.e., Dallas shooter Micah Xavier Johnson). These responses are harmful and lead to negative, long-term consequences.”

Monnica T. Williams Ph.D.
​

Again, this is not the first time I have posted these words. So again, I am fully aware of the damage racism has wrought on the black community . You are not. Notice what these words are saying.

Not only do many whites want to deny the extent of what racism can cause, but certain whites tell us that what we see does not exist. Some tell us how these are just small number random cases that mean nothing and are not serious just as you have done.

From what I have learned in psychology, coping is a way to tolerate a bad situation. There are many ways blacks as well as others of color cope or handle the racism we are forced to face. Many outside of the African American or other non-white communities do not seem to understand to what extent racism can drive a person to unhealthy and societally negative behaviors. To understand the dual standards in such thinking, white people have used drugs and became addicted to them to escape a bad situation, but when it comes to blacks or other minorities and drug use, there is no excuse for “you people” to get strung out. While a white person can get addicted on pills and claim they did so to escape the pain of abuses they have endured, blacks or other nonwhites can’t say how they have endured racism and are addicted because of the pain that causes. Instead it’s a failure of an inferior culture.

So you see flacaltenn, you are the one that lacks any understanding of the scope of and the cause of, the problems blacks face. Much like oldstyle, you want to tell me how it's not racism and how I need to do everything but address the root cause of the problem and that will create a solution.

Addressing policy does nothing unless you address the attitudes within those creating the policies.

 

[Markle]

Known Offenders [ONLY HATE CRIMES]

• 53.6% were White
• 24.0% were Black or African American
• 12.9% race unknown

What are the demographics of America again?

UM2, why do BLACKS commit TWICE AS MANY HATE CRIMES as WHITES?

Keep in mind that this is 2020 and not 1820. I know how much you live in the past.

 

[IM2]

People who don't experience this always have a lot to say. And it gets old. Because whites have problems that are self inflicted they think that everybody has them. White problems do not happen as the result of having to cope within a system that wants to deny your existence. But whites want to judge us as if we have the exact same experience and our actions are caused by the same exact things. We are called racists by whites for pointing out a proven behavior pattern, while whites see us talking about them based on color because that's how we have been judged by whites.

Although the chronic condition of stress can have negative side effects on all persons, the unique psycho-social and contextual factors, specifically the common and pervasive exposure to racism and discrimination, creates an additional daily stressor for African-Americans. Often, African-Americans do not realize daily stressors that may affect their psychological or physiological health and so we have compiled a collection of articles and additional resources to understand the health effects that result from exposure and perception of racism and discrimination.

Physiological and Psychological Impact of Racism and Discrimination for African-Americans

The Ethnicity and Health in America Series is raising awareness about the physiological and psychological impact of racism and discrimination as it relates to stress during Black History Month.

www.apa.org

November 16, 2011


For black American adults, perceived racism may cause mental health symptoms similar to trauma and could lead to some physical health disparities between blacks and other populations in the United States, according to a new study published by the American Psychological Association.

While previous studies have found links between racism and mental health, this is the first meta-analysis on the subject focusing exclusively on black American adults, according to the study published online in APA’s Journal of Counseling Psychology®.

“We focused on black American adults because this is a population that has reported, on average, more incidents of racism than other racial minority groups and because of the potential links between racism and not only mental health, but physical health as well,” said lead author Alex Pieterse, PhD, of the University at Albany, State University of New York.

Researchers examined 66 studies comprising 18,140 black adults in the United States. To be included in the analysis, a study must have been published in a peer-reviewed journal or dissertation between 1996 and 2011; include a specific analysis of mental health indicators associated with racism; and focus specifically on black American adults in the United States.

Black Americans’ psychological responses to racism are very similar to common responses to trauma, such as somatization, which is psychological distress expressed as physical pain; interpersonal sensitivity; and anxiety, according to the study. Individuals who said they experienced more and very stressful racism were more likely to report mental distress, the authors said.

While the researchers did not collect data on the impacts on physical health, they cite other studies to point out that perceived racism may also affect black Americans’ physical health.

“The relationship between perceived racism and self-reported depression and anxiety is quite robust, providing a reminder that experiences of racism may play an important role in the health disparities phenomenon,” Pieterse said. “For example, African-Americans have higher rates of hypertension, a serious condition that has been associated with stress and depression.”

The authors recommended that therapists assess racism experiences as part of standard procedure when treating black Americans, and that future studies focus on how discrimination is perceived in specific settings, such as work, online or in school.

Article: “Perceived Racism and Mental Health Among Black American Adults: A Meta-Analytic Review,” Alex L. Pieterse, PhD, University at Albany, State University of New York; Nathan R. Todd, PhD, DePaul University; Helen A. Neville, PhD, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign; and Robert T. Carter, PhD, Teachers College, Columbia University; Journal of Counseling Psychology, Vol. 59, No. 1.

Perceived racism may impact Black Americans' mental health

For black American adults, perceived racism may cause mental health symptoms similar to trauma and could lead to some physical health disparities between blacks and other populations in the United States, according to a new study published by the American Psychological Association.

www.apa.org

The Link Between Racism and PTSD
Posted Sep 06, 2015

Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) – the diagnosis conjures up images of hollow-eyed combat veterans or terrified rape victims, but new research indicates that racism can be just as devastating as gunfire or sexual assault. In a previous article I posed the question, Can Racism Cause PTSD? The answer is yes, and changes in the DSM-5 open the door for a better understanding of this phenomenon. Here I discuss the psychological research in this area, as well as clinical observations and how these relate to my own experiences as a person of color. Several people have asked me why I focus on African Americans, given the many similar experiences faced by other ethnic/racial groups, immigrants, sexual minorities, disabled people, and other stigmatized individuals. I want to state up front that the problems faced by those groups are real and deserve attention too, however in this article I am going to stick to what I know, the Black experience in America.


Racism-related experiences can range from frequent ambiguous “microaggressions” to blatant hate crimes and physical assault. Racial microaggressions are subtle, yet pervasive acts of racism; these can be brief remarks, vague insults, or even non-verbal exchanges, such as a scowl or refusal to sit next to a Black person on the subway. When experiencing microaggressions, the target loses vital mental resources trying figure out the intention of one committing the act. These events may happen frequently, making it difficult to mentally manage the sheer volume of racial stressors. The unpredictable and anxiety-provoking nature of the events, which may be dismissed by others, can lead to victims feeling as if they are “going crazy.” Chronic fear of these experiences may lead to constant vigilance or even paranoia, which over time may result in traumatization or contribute to PTSD when a more stressful event occurs later (Carter, 2007). In fact, one study of female veterans found that African Americans scored higher on measures of ideas of persecution and paranoia, which the authors attributed to an adaptive response to racism (C’de Baca, Castillo, & Qualls, 2012).


While most of us can understand why a violent hate crime could be traumatizing, the traumatizing role of microaggressions can be difficult to comprehend, especially among those who do not experience them. One study of racial discrimination and psychopathology across three U.S. ethnic minority groups found that African Americans experienced significantly more instances of discrimination than either Asian or Hispanic Americans (Chao, Asnaani, Hofmann, 2012). Non-Hispanic Whites experience the least discrimination (11% for Whites versus 81% for Blacks; Cokley, Hall-Clark, & Hicks, 2011). Furthermore, those African Americans who experienced the most racism were significantly more likely to experience symptoms of PTSD as well.


Make no mistake, Asian and Hispanic Americans receive their unfair share of racism too, and research shows that it may even be harder to manage for individuals in these groups. But each ethnic/racial group has its own package of negative stereotypes that impact the form of racism experienced, so it’s not surprising that PTSD prevalence differs by race and ethnicity. Findings from large-scale national studies indicate that, while African Americans have a lower risk for many anxiety disorders, they have a 9.1% prevalence rate for PTSD, compared to 6.8% in Whites (Himle et al, 2009). That means that almost one in ten Black people becomes traumatized, and I think these rates may actually be higher since diagnosticians are usually not considering the role of racism in causing trauma (Malcoun, Williams, & Bahojb-Nouri, 2015).

The Link Between Racism and PTSD

A psychologist explains race-based stress and trauma in Black Americans.

www.psychologytoday.com

Examining the Link Between Racism and Health
New research suggests that discrimination takes a physical toll.
Posted Oct 19, 2017

A lead researcher in the field is Anthony Ong, a professor of human development in Cornell University’s College of Human Ecology. Ong explains that experiencing discrimination or mistreatment regularly can affect health through eroding a person’s self-esteem and by robbing marginalized individuals of opportunities.

“Although increasing evidence suggests that chronic exposure to unfair treatment or day-to-day discrimination increases the risk for poor health, the overall dearth of data on biological mechanisms indicate it’s important to continue studying this topic,” Ong said.

He published a study last year of more than 200 African-American adults followed over the period of a decade. Participants filled out questionnaires about everyday mistreatment such as being called names, insulted, threatened, or harassed. They also answered questions about larger occurrences of unfair treatment, such as being discouraged from continuing their education, not receiving a loan or being hassled by the police.

Participants also underwent blood tests to identify 22 biomarkers of diseases including heart disease, diabetes, nerve problems and inflammation.

Ultimately, participants who reported experiencing more discrimination were in poorer health. Ong said that’s because experiencing discrimination on a regular basis, even small instances of daily mistreatment, lead to “wear-and-tear” on the body over time.

“Our findings suggest that coping with chronic experiences of day-to-day mistreatment and discrimination can elicit a cascade of response that over time ‘weather’ or damage the physiological systems that regulate the body’s stress response,” he said.

Examining the Link Between Racism and Health

New research suggests that discrimination takes a physical toll.

www.psychologytoday.com

JUNE 23, 2017
The Little Understood Mental-Health Effects of Racial Trauma

On Sunday, police officers in Seattle shot and killed Charleena Lyles in her home. She died in front of “several children,” according to reports, and her family members say she was pregnant. Just days before, Jeronimo Yanez, the Minnesota police officer who shot and killed Philando Castile during a traffic stop, was acquitted of all charges. Earlier this spring, an unarmed teenager named Jordan Edwards was shot and killed by police as he was driving away from a party. By now, it’s become a sickeningly familiar sequence of events.

While the trigger (both literally and metaphorically) is the same, there is an aspect of these events that is frequently overlooked: the effects of the frequent police killings on black Americans’ mental health in the form of racial trauma, a psychological phenomenon that some experts say is similar to post-traumatic stress disorder. “Racial trauma is experiencing psychological symptoms such as anxiety, hypervigilance to threat, or lack of hopefulness for your future as a result of repeated exposure to racism or discrimination,” said Erlanger Turner, an assistant professor of psychology at the University of Houston-Downtown, who is one of only a handful of researchers studying racial trauma.

Symptoms can include depression and angry outbursts, much like what is typically seen in those suffering from PTSD. But Turner has observed additional behaviors that are specific to racial trauma, including a reluctance to interact with or general mistrust of white people. Racial trauma can be triggered by many events, but among the most common triggers are continued racial harassment, being a victim of police violence, or witnessing said violence. Even witnessing violence on the news can be damaging. “Research has consistently shown that visual exposure to events can be traumatic,” Turner said. “I particularly believe that the recent news coverage of police shootings of black and brown men will cause some short-time trauma for individuals, especially children. I strongly encourage parents to limit exposure to this type of news coverage.” And yet few researchers are studying the lasting impact of racial trauma.

The Little Understood Mental-Health Effects of Racial Trauma

Some researchers are comparing the symptoms to PTSD.

www.thecut.com

Everybody has an opinion on race and racism, but not everybody has a studied or learned opinion. And that is the problem here in these discussions. When looked upon critically, racism is a form of abusive behavior based upon a belief in racial superiority.

Racism includes and has included these things:

• Emotional/Psychological abuse
• Financial abuse
• Physical abuse
• Sexual abuse
• Verbal abuse
• Spiritual abuse

Tremendous psychological damage has been inflicted on nonwhites because of the racist policies and individual actions by whites in America and worldwide. But some whites seem to think that racism is simple and that it carries no psychological consequences to those who are the victims of it. They do so because they see nonwhites coping the best way they can with it. Secondly, they tend to look at things based on their perspective, meaning that when they see blacks acting violent they look at it from their experience as whites, never factoring in the damage at every level caused by past and continuing white racism.

“On occasion, the emotional weight of racism can lead African Americans to engage in maladaptive coping, such as remaining in denial, engaging in substance use, aggression, self-blame – even in extreme cases suicide (i.e., Black Lives Matter activist Marshawn McCarrel) and terrorism (i.e., Dallas shooter Micah Xavier Johnson). These responses are harmful and lead to negative, long-term consequences.”

Monnica T. Williams Ph.D.​

It is important to understand these realities. If not, then eventually you are going to end up with a chain of black and other nonwhite mass killers because people ignore the psychological damage created by racism. I remember being asked to speak to a class of students in the university located in my hometown on racial stereotypes in the media. It was shortly after the mass shooting at Virginia Tech. I began my talk with trying to provide an example of how white racism could have been a factor in the shooting. After all, the shooter was an Asian student that lived as the only Asian student in his dorm. There is no telling how many times he was taunted by white Virginia children of confederacy supporters. Cho Seung-Hui was deemed mentally ill, and I was almost fired from my job because the comment I made offended the president of the board of directors of the organization I was working for at the time who was also speaking to the same class. She was a white liberal and of course racism could not have anything to do with that killing in her mind. Mind you, this person was in no manner a racist, in fact she was most certainly a warrior for human equality. The reality of this example is that no matter how much a white person is nonracist, they do not personally experience racism and therefore should probably listen to those of us who do. There is no telling how much racism Cho endured during his life and eventually that racism contributed to the mental decline and rage that led to those killings.

I post this because I get the silly argument about black self inflicted problems. Our problems begin with white racism. Whites want to ignore that such a problem exists or if it does, it is just something you can ignore and move beyond just by not talking about it. No abusive behavior is EVER solved in that manner.