So What Happened To Blacks After Slavery?

[Tom Paine 1949]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.
But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

Nobody denies that big “northern industrialists” sought to “recruit southern black labor” during WWI when immigrants were no longer arriving in great numbers and the war sent young men, including young black men, to war overseas. IM2 already talked about how southern bosses tried to prevent the loss of black semi-enslaved labor. The use of poor black labor as strike breakers in mining areas was also often tried, even before the war. When direct physical efforts to stop “emigrants” didn’t work, in some areas of the south in those years there were even temporarily “improved terms” offered to black sharecroppers. Racist manipulation and exploitation takes many forms.

So did black resistance! You say I am arguing that ...

“It took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect ... that is absurd!

NO. That is not at all what I am saying. That is what you are presuming I am saying.

First of all, after the Civil War most black ex-slaves were living in the Deep South, and the first mass migration movements off plantations were often just frantic searches for family members, children and parents and siblings separated and sold away. But then there was a need to eat!

Next the overwhelming struggle until 1877 (and until much later in most places) was to establish and then defend integrated reconstruction governments and other remaining gains of Reconstruction ... in the south. To build and save the new Freedmen schools, churches, technical colleges, to preserve the right to vote, to get a piece of the land they had worked for generations. Nobody was thinking about migration as long as there was any hope of Reconstruction. But the early promises of help, of “40 acres and a mule,” were betrayed, as schools and churches were burnt down and the vast majority of ex-slaves driven back to picking cotten as indebted sharecroppers in semi-feudal conditions. Blacks then had virtually NOTHING. No money. No land. No education. No rights. Even the famed abolitionist movement that had helped a few thousand slaves escape on the Underground Railroad was gone, exhausted. Except for a few brave but dwindling schoolteachers. Even at its height the Underground Railroad had rarely reached the Deep South states. Besides, it was all too easy just to sit back an argue that the slaves ... were “free” now!

In the next period there was just a struggle to survive. Some of the black soldiers still alive and active became “Buffalo Soldiers” fighting Indians in the Southwest, maybe later black cowboys. Others made it to California. There was still some “philanthropy.” But for most Deep South ex-slaves there was no hope but to remain and try to work out a way to get some land. Many who had a few dollars and lived near the Mississippi by 1879 were trying to emigrate WEST, e.g. to Kansas, like the famous “Exodusters”:

The Exodusters was a name given to African Americans who migrated from states along the Mississippi River to Kansas in the late nineteenth century, as part of the Exoduster Movement. It was the first general migration of black people following the Civil War.... As many as forty thousand Exodusters left the South to settle in Kansas, Oklahoma and Colorado.

* 98,000 sign emigration papers
*Around 26,000 African Americans arrived in Kansas

The number one cause of black migration out of the South at this time was to escape racial violence or "bulldozing" by white supremacist groups such as the Ku Klux Klan ... In large parts of Mississippi, less than 1 in 100 black workers owned land or a house.

In the aftermath of the Compromise of 1877 and the traumatic political campaigns of 1878 in Louisiana, the plight of organized black resistance had reached a point of hopelessness, leading to the Exodus.... Political and economic oppression was enforced by means both legal and illegal, on the streets and in contracts, at both the local and federal levels. Grassroots black political activism .... functioned only in total secrecy and at great risk of assassination. Such efforts were eventually pushed out of rural communities and into New Orleans, where many organizers ... found themselves exiled.

The Exoduster movement has been characterized as an example of millenarianism, in that many exodusters created settlements they believed to be their new, Promised Land. The journey of these refugees was termed an “exodus,” a word taken from the Old Testament in reference to the Jews’ flight from Egypt...

— Exodusters - Wikipedia

Historian Nell Irvin Painter wrote a 1976 book, "Exodusters: Black Migration to Kansas After Reconstruction," that explains how little real opportunity there was at the end of Reconstruction for ex-slaves to go anywhere, and that even the move to Kansas, known to Freedmen as the home of John Brown, and where Homestead Lands were supposedly available, was sometimes made by walking there. Some paid $5 to take a steamer up to St. Louis, where they were all but stranded. The Freedmen and their families initially headed to Kansas at the urging of recruiters like Benjamin “Pap” Singleton, born into slavery in 1809 in Nashville, Tennessee. When he was 37, having escaped several times, he finally made it to Detroit. After the Civil War, he came back to Tennessee, where he tried to help blacks buy land. When that failed, he traveled the South, organizing blacks to resettle in Kansas. But while towns were built in Kansas and elsewhere on mostly barren land that nobody else wanted, twenty years later they were all essentially gone, as new railroads being built purposely avoided them, or the barren land gave out as in Oklahoma and Nebraska.

So yes, as new opportunities arose due to industrialization and WWI, many African Americans took the chance to escape, even if most stayed in the south and struggled to build lives there. Nowhere in the north or west did they find that “Promised Land” of real legal equality (or job equality and equal opportunity) — not until well after the Civil Rights Movement began to change consciousness. Even today the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow and racism lingers, and is hard even for well-meaning people to escape it entirely.

 

[Asclepias]

At its height, Black land ownership was impressive. At the turn of the 20th century, formerly enslaved Black people and their heirs owned 15 million acres of land, primarily in the South, mostly used for farming.

You're making my point for me. The slavery generation received substantial reparations. The people who actually suffered the wrongs, received the reparations.

If subsequent generations decided not to hold on to that land or decided that farming wasn't for them and sold that land to seek allegedly greener pastures in the inner cities of American metropolises, that doesn't change the fact that reparations have been paid.

No your point was not made. Whites continued committing atrocities which you owe us for. Subsequent generations did not just decide not to hold on to the land, they were fucking murdered and intimidated and land forcibly taken. You seem to ignore this in your attempt to gaslight but you don't get away with that here.

You want to cite one paragraph, but lets discuss the entire story.

So you start with this:

At its height, Black land ownership was impressive. At the turn of the 20th century, formerly enslaved Black people and their heirs owned 15 million acres of land, primarily in the South, mostly used for farming.

But you dare not discuss this part:

In 1920, the 925,000 African-American farms represented 14 percent of the farms in America. Sadly, things turned for the worse, as 600,000 Black farmers were forced off their land, with only 45,000 Black farms remaining in 1975.

What this says is 600,000 black farmers were forced off their property. Not that they decided to leave, chose to sell or determined that farming was not for them. On top of that, all blacks were not farmers.

So like I said, whites committed one atrocity which was slavery, then they committed another one after slavery by what was done to black landowners. Reparations are owed for each time an atrocity is committed. Had whites given blacks land and they really did what you claim, then reparations would not be asked for, but that is not what happened, you know that's not what happened therefore your point was not made and instead you have continued to validate my position by the fact I proved yours was incorrect and in fact false.

"In 1920, the 925,000 African-American farms represented 14 percent of the farms in America. Sadly, things turned for the worse, as 600,000 Black farmers were forced off their land, with only 45,000 Black farms remaining in 1975."
Are you familiar with the term "The Great Migration", IM2? There were very good reasons why the number of African-American farms went from 925,000 in 1920 to only 45,000 in 1975!

It was called terrorism by whites and btw thats not a good reason.

https://www.amazon.com/Buried-Bitter-Waters-History-Cleansing/dp/0465036376&tag=ff0d01-20

 

[Oldestyle]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.

But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.

So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?

Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.

IMO opinion:

The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.

I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.

Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.

That can't be denied.

Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?

Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.

Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

 

[Asclepias]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.

But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.

So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?

Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.

IMO opinion:

The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.

I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.

Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.

That can't be denied.

Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?

Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.

Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

You sound like a fucking idiot. Every Black person I know will tell you their family left the south because of the institutionalized racism there. Of course it helped that there were jobs but dont get it twisted.

 

[Oldestyle]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.
But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

Nobody denies that big “northern industrialists” sought to “recruit southern black labor” during WWI when immigrants were no longer arriving in great numbers and the war sent young men, including young black men, to war overseas. IM2 already talked about how southern bosses tried to prevent the loss of black semi-enslaved labor, which you never even responded to. The use of poor black labor as strike breakers in mining areas was also often tried, even before the war. When direct physical efforts to stop “emigrants” didn’t work, in some areas of the south in those years there were even temporarily “improved terms” offered to black sharecroppers. Racist manipulation and exploitation takes many forms.

So did black resistance! You say I am arguing that ...

“It took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect ... that is absurd!

NO. That is not at all what I am saying. That is what you are presuming I am saying.

First of all, after the Civil War most black ex-slaves were living in the Deep South, and the first mass migration movements off plantations were often just frantic searches for family members, children and family separated and sold away.

The overwhelming struggle until 1877 (and until much later in most places) was to establish and then defend integrated reconstruction governments and other remaining gains of Reconstruction ... in the south. To build and save Freedmen schools, churches, colleges and technical schools, to preserve the right to vote, to get a piece of the land they had worked for generations. But the early promises of help, of “40 acres and a mule,” were betrayed, as schools and churches were burnt down and the vast majority of ex-slaves driven back to picking cotten as indebted sharecroppers in semi-feudal conditions. They had virtually NOTHING. No money. No land. No education. No rights. Even the famed abolitionist movement that had helped a few thousand slaves escape on the Underground Railroad was gone, exhausted. Even at its height it had rarely reached the Deep South states. After all, slaves were “free” now!

In the next period there was just a struggle to survive. Some of the black soldiers still alive and active became “Buffalo Soldiers” fighting Indians in the Southwest, maybe later black cowboys. Others made it to California. There was still some philanthropy. But for most Deep South ex-slaves there was no hope but to remain and try to work out a way to get some land. Many who had a few dollars and lived near the Mississippi by 1879 were trying to emigrate WEST, e.g. to Kansas, like the famous “Exodusters”:

The Exodusters was a name given to African Americans who migrated from states along the Mississippi River to Kansas in the late nineteenth century, as part of the Exoduster Movement. It was the first general migration of black people following the Civil War.... As many as forty thousand Exodusters left the South to settle in Kansas, Oklahoma and Colorado.

* 98,000 sign emigration papers
*Around 26,000 African Americans arrived in Kansas

The number one cause of black migration out of the South at this time was to escape racial violence or "bulldozing" by white supremacist groups such as the Ku Klux Klan ... In large parts of Mississippi, less than 1 in 100 black workers owned land or a house.

In the aftermath of the Compromise of 1877 and the traumatic political campaigns of 1878 in Louisiana, the plight of organized black resistance had reached a point of hopelessness, leading to the Exodus.... Political and economic oppression was enforced by means both legal and illegal, on the streets and in contracts, at both the local and federal levels. Grassroots black political activism .... functioned only in total secrecy and at great risk of assassination. Such efforts were eventually pushed out of rural communities and into New Orleans, where many organizers ... found themselves exiled.

The Exoduster movement has been characterized as an example of millenarianism, in that many exodusters created settlements they believed to be their new, Promised Land. The journey of these refugees was termed an “exodus,” a word taken from the Old Testament in reference to the Jews’ flight from Egypt...

— Exodusters - Wikipedia

Historian Nell Irvin Painter wrote a 1976 book, "Exodusters: Black Migration to Kansas After Reconstruction," that explains how little real opportunity there was at the end of Reconstruction for ex-slaves to go anywhere, and that even the move to Kansas, known to Freedmen as the home of John Brown, and where Homestead Lands were supposedly available, was sometimes made by walking there. Some paid $5 to take a steamer up to St. Louis, where they were all but stranded. The Freedmen and their families initially headed to Kansas at the urging of recruiters like Benjamin “Pap” Singleton, born into slavery in 1809 in Nashville, Tennessee. When he was 37, having escaped several times, he finally made it to Detroit. After the Civil War, he came back to Tennessee, where he tried to help blacks buy land. When that failed, he traveled the South, organizing blacks to resettle in Kansas. But while towns were built in Kansas and elsewhere on mostly barren land that nobody else wanted, twenty years later they were all essentially gone, as new railroads being built purposely avoided them, or the land gave out as in a Oklahoma and Nebraska.

So yes, as new opportunities arose due to industrialization and WWI, many African Americans took the chance to escape, even if most for one reason or another stayed in the south and struggled to build lives and survive there. But nowhere in the north or west did they find that “Promised Land” of real legal equality (or job equality andequal opportunity) — not until well after the Civil Rights Movement began to change consciousness. Even today the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow and racism lingers, and is hard even for well-meaning people to escape entirely.

Your post simply reinforces my point that it wasn't racism that kept slaves from migrating to the north right after the Civil War...it was a lack of jobs there if they HAD migrated! It's all well and good to note that the north had fought to free the slaves but that doesn't mean that whites in the north were willing to give blacks from the south their jobs when the war was over! They weren't! The Great Migration doesn't begin for another 50 years because people don't migrate if they don't have the anticipation of a better life where they are going and there wasn't a better life in the north for them until WWI changed everything!

 

[Markle]

"Under a true system of justice, if you do the crime, you do the time. Law and order deter bad guys. Period. However, once we start social engineering and going soft on crime in order to avoid rightfully incarcerating individuals of particular races, everyone is harmed, including those the limousine liberals purport to help. The most dangerous example is our current rush to push jailbreak legislation under the false premise that black people are incarcerated unfairly and to ignore the appalling levels of crime committed by young black males. It hurts everyone, including law-abiding African-Americans.
If one were to be dropped here from Mars with no preconceived notions about violence in America, one would come away with the impression that white supremacy is the biggest threat to public safety. DHS Secretary Kevin McAleenan announced last month that the Department of Homeland Security would be using increased resources to confront “racially based violent extremism, particularly white supremacist extremism.” Yet the reality in the everyday stories from New York, where Jews are being attacked by violent black youths every day, or the knockout game continuing in places like Maryland, paints a very different picture. And it’s backed up by the data.
Cory Booker claims that there is “systemic racism” in our criminal justice system leading to unjust mass incarceration of black people. The facts simply say the opposite. According to the new National Crime Victimization Survey published by the Bureau of Justice Statics, out of the 593,598 interracial violent victimization crimes between blacks and whites reported in 2018, 90 percent were black against white, and 9.5 percent were white against black. That is simply astounding given that black people compose just 12 percent of the general population and white people comprise 62 percent. And the trend is getting worse. As Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute observes, “That ratio is becoming more skewed, despite the Democratic claim of Trump-inspired white violence. In 2012-13, blacks committed 85 percent of all interracial victimizations between blacks and whites; whites committed 15 percent.”

The lopsided share of crime committed by black people is a problem across the board, but particularly for violent crimes. According to the FBI’s 2018 Uniform Crime reporting, of the 11,514 homicide offenders whose race is known, a whopping 55 percent were black, 42 percent white, and three percent other. Though black people make up only 12 percent of the population, they composed 53 percent of all murder victims in cases where the identity of the victim was known and reported. In cases where the race of both the victim and offender was known, a staggering 88.9 percent of black homicide victims were murdered by black offenders.
To drill down even further, in 2017, black males accounted for 45 percent of homicides, even though they make up just seven percent of the population. That means they commit murders at a rate eight times higher than whites.
In 2018, African-Americans accounted for 54 percent of those arrested for robbery, 34 percent of those arrested for aggravated assault, and 43 percent of weapons violations. In total, they composed 37.4 percent of all violent crime arrests. Yet, despite the complaint about black imprisonment, only 33 percent of state and federal inmates in 2017 were black. And their numbers are dropping quicker than any other group."

As we all know, providing facts to IM2 (our resident white guy whose sock is a black racist)is no different than spitting in the wind.

His goal is to be the most prolific racist poster on US Message Board. As far as I'm concerned, he's won. He's a bored ol' white guy looking for a thrill.

Naww Markle, no white bored guy would put THAT MUCH effort into becoming a "Grievance Scholar" just to sit here and troll USMB.. This is YEARS and YEARS of studying stuff that makes ya crotchedly angry and resentful... It's the real deal.. Might even have a degree in it for all I know..

That has been my very impression of IM2, he spends so much time crying about the past systemic injustice perpetrated against blacks, which have mostly vanished since the 1960's, allowing a lot of blacks to be very wealthy and famous, but he doesn't want to talk about black success, he wants to feel bad about injustice that he HIMSELF never suffered, after all he was never a slave, 3/5 of a person, is a citizen, a legal voter, and more.

If White America is so bad how did Winfrey Ophrah be a BILLIONAIRE? Have many Blacks who have over $500 MILLION, all in White America, There are a few former black basket ball players who can afford to BUY pro basketball teams, all happening in White America.

How did The 99% black Cosby Show be NUMBER ONE on TV for 5 straight years?

How did a black man be voted into the White House?

All done in a Country with over 60% Whites to only 14% blacks.....

There are many successful blacks in White America, but he is too busy crying about the past injustice (which can't be taken back) to notice them. He is trying to get others to feel bad about the past (which has already happened) so he can continue to cry and cry and cry, it is boring and a waste of time, NOBODY is getting any younger, why waste so much time to crying about a past you can not alter?

I say go into the future, press for freedom, truth and long life!

Past injustice my black ass. I am talking about right now and have shown it.

I notice you ignored most of my post, could it because there are happy successful blacks in it?

Your relentless attacks on people of the past gets boring after a while, in the meantime, once again, Slavery was abolished 152 years ago. Check

Blacks can vote and be a full citizen, 152 years ago. Check
Blacks can be President, Millionaire, Billionaires. Check
Blacks own large corporations. Check
Blacks own their own TV network, develop their own TV shows and movies. Check
Blacks no longer face the insult of Segregation. Check
Blacks can go to well funded "White" schools and Colleges. Check
Blacks can sit any open seat anywhere in buses, theatres, cars, trains, boats, ships. Check
Blacks win various acting awards, including the most prestigious three, Emmys, Oscar and Golden Globe. Check
I can go on and on, showing the freedom Black people now enjoy that wasn't prevalent up to the 1960's.

You doing to dispute all this?

As you know well, it is a waste of time providing facts to IM2, the facts are not anything about which he is concerned. IM2 is a troll, nothing more nothing less.

He is like a one-note song.

 

[Oldestyle]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.

But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.

So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?

Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.

IMO opinion:

The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.

I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.

Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.

That can't be denied.

Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?

Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.

Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

You sound like a fucking idiot. Every Black person I know will tell you their family left the south because of the institutionalized racism there. Of course it helped that there were jobs but dont get it twisted.

It "helped" that there were jobs that paid 3 times what they would make if they stayed in the south? Now there is the understatement of the year!

None have you have explained why it took 50 years for that "institutionalized racism" to suddenly spur a migration!

 

[Asclepias]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.

But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.

So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?

Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.

IMO opinion:

The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.

I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.

Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.

That can't be denied.

Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?

Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.

Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

You sound like a fucking idiot. Every Black person I know will tell you their family left the south because of the institutionalized racism there. Of course it helped that there were jobs but dont get it twisted.

It "helped" that there were jobs that paid 3 times what they would make if they stayed in the south?

None have you have explained why it took 50 years for that "institutionalized racism" to suddenly spur a migration!

I didnt know it had to be explained. I thought you had at least an iota of common sense.

 

[IM2]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.

But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.

So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?

Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.

IMO opinion:

The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.

I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.

Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.

That can't be denied.

Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?

Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.

Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

You sound like a fucking idiot. Every Black person I know will tell you their family left the south because of the institutionalized racism there. Of course it helped that there were jobs but dont get it twisted.

It "helped" that there were jobs that paid 3 times what they would make if they stayed in the south?

None have you have explained why it took 50 years for that "institutionalized racism" to suddenly spur a migration!

We don't need to explain that to you. Blacks started going north from the time of slavery so no one was waiting for anything.

 

[Oldestyle]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.

But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.

So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?

Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.

IMO opinion:

The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.

I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.

Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.

That can't be denied.

Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?

Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.

Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

You sound like a fucking idiot. Every Black person I know will tell you their family left the south because of the institutionalized racism there. Of course it helped that there were jobs but dont get it twisted.

It "helped" that there were jobs that paid 3 times what they would make if they stayed in the south?

None have you have explained why it took 50 years for that "institutionalized racism" to suddenly spur a migration!

I didnt know it had to be explained. I thought you had at least an iota of common sense.

Then explain it...

 

[IM2]

"Under a true system of justice, if you do the crime, you do the time. Law and order deter bad guys. Period. However, once we start social engineering and going soft on crime in order to avoid rightfully incarcerating individuals of particular races, everyone is harmed, including those the limousine liberals purport to help. The most dangerous example is our current rush to push jailbreak legislation under the false premise that black people are incarcerated unfairly and to ignore the appalling levels of crime committed by young black males. It hurts everyone, including law-abiding African-Americans.
If one were to be dropped here from Mars with no preconceived notions about violence in America, one would come away with the impression that white supremacy is the biggest threat to public safety. DHS Secretary Kevin McAleenan announced last month that the Department of Homeland Security would be using increased resources to confront “racially based violent extremism, particularly white supremacist extremism.” Yet the reality in the everyday stories from New York, where Jews are being attacked by violent black youths every day, or the knockout game continuing in places like Maryland, paints a very different picture. And it’s backed up by the data.
Cory Booker claims that there is “systemic racism” in our criminal justice system leading to unjust mass incarceration of black people. The facts simply say the opposite. According to the new National Crime Victimization Survey published by the Bureau of Justice Statics, out of the 593,598 interracial violent victimization crimes between blacks and whites reported in 2018, 90 percent were black against white, and 9.5 percent were white against black. That is simply astounding given that black people compose just 12 percent of the general population and white people comprise 62 percent. And the trend is getting worse. As Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute observes, “That ratio is becoming more skewed, despite the Democratic claim of Trump-inspired white violence. In 2012-13, blacks committed 85 percent of all interracial victimizations between blacks and whites; whites committed 15 percent.”

The lopsided share of crime committed by black people is a problem across the board, but particularly for violent crimes. According to the FBI’s 2018 Uniform Crime reporting, of the 11,514 homicide offenders whose race is known, a whopping 55 percent were black, 42 percent white, and three percent other. Though black people make up only 12 percent of the population, they composed 53 percent of all murder victims in cases where the identity of the victim was known and reported. In cases where the race of both the victim and offender was known, a staggering 88.9 percent of black homicide victims were murdered by black offenders.
To drill down even further, in 2017, black males accounted for 45 percent of homicides, even though they make up just seven percent of the population. That means they commit murders at a rate eight times higher than whites.
In 2018, African-Americans accounted for 54 percent of those arrested for robbery, 34 percent of those arrested for aggravated assault, and 43 percent of weapons violations. In total, they composed 37.4 percent of all violent crime arrests. Yet, despite the complaint about black imprisonment, only 33 percent of state and federal inmates in 2017 were black. And their numbers are dropping quicker than any other group."

As we all know, providing facts to IM2 (our resident white guy whose sock is a black racist)is no different than spitting in the wind.

His goal is to be the most prolific racist poster on US Message Board. As far as I'm concerned, he's won. He's a bored ol' white guy looking for a thrill.

Naww Markle, no white bored guy would put THAT MUCH effort into becoming a "Grievance Scholar" just to sit here and troll USMB.. This is YEARS and YEARS of studying stuff that makes ya crotchedly angry and resentful... It's the real deal.. Might even have a degree in it for all I know..

That has been my very impression of IM2, he spends so much time crying about the past systemic injustice perpetrated against blacks, which have mostly vanished since the 1960's, allowing a lot of blacks to be very wealthy and famous, but he doesn't want to talk about black success, he wants to feel bad about injustice that he HIMSELF never suffered, after all he was never a slave, 3/5 of a person, is a citizen, a legal voter, and more.

If White America is so bad how did Winfrey Ophrah be a BILLIONAIRE? Have many Blacks who have over $500 MILLION, all in White America, There are a few former black basket ball players who can afford to BUY pro basketball teams, all happening in White America.

How did The 99% black Cosby Show be NUMBER ONE on TV for 5 straight years?

How did a black man be voted into the White House?

All done in a Country with over 60% Whites to only 14% blacks.....

There are many successful blacks in White America, but he is too busy crying about the past injustice (which can't be taken back) to notice them. He is trying to get others to feel bad about the past (which has already happened) so he can continue to cry and cry and cry, it is boring and a waste of time, NOBODY is getting any younger, why waste so much time to crying about a past you can not alter?

I say go into the future, press for freedom, truth and long life!

Past injustice my black ass. I am talking about right now and have shown it.

I notice you ignored most of my post, could it because there are happy successful blacks in it?

Your relentless attacks on people of the past gets boring after a while, in the meantime, once again, Slavery was abolished 152 years ago. Check

Blacks can vote and be a full citizen, 152 years ago. Check
Blacks can be President, Millionaire, Billionaires. Check
Blacks own large corporations. Check
Blacks own their own TV network, develop their own TV shows and movies. Check
Blacks no longer face the insult of Segregation. Check
Blacks can go to well funded "White" schools and Colleges. Check
Blacks can sit any open seat anywhere in buses, theatres, cars, trains, boats, ships. Check
Blacks win various acting awards, including the most prestigious three, Emmys, Oscar and Golden Globe. Check
I can go on and on, showing the freedom Black people now enjoy that wasn't prevalent up to the 1960's.

You doing to dispute all this?

As you know well, it is a waste of time providing facts to IM2, the facts are not anything about which he is concerned. IM2 is a troll, nothing more nothing less.

He is like a one-note song.

I know the facts.

 

[Oldestyle]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.

But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.

So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?

Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.

IMO opinion:

The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.

I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.

Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.

That can't be denied.

Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?

Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.

Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

You sound like a fucking idiot. Every Black person I know will tell you their family left the south because of the institutionalized racism there. Of course it helped that there were jobs but dont get it twisted.

It "helped" that there were jobs that paid 3 times what they would make if they stayed in the south?

None have you have explained why it took 50 years for that "institutionalized racism" to suddenly spur a migration!

We don't need to explain that to you. Blacks started going north from the time of slavery so no one was waiting for anything.

And yet The Great Migration is listed as taking place between 1920 and 1970? Gee, IM2...did slavery end in 1919? Duh?

 

[Asclepias]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.

But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.

So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?

Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.

IMO opinion:

The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.

I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.

Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.

That can't be denied.

Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?

Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.

Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

You sound like a fucking idiot. Every Black person I know will tell you their family left the south because of the institutionalized racism there. Of course it helped that there were jobs but dont get it twisted.

It "helped" that there were jobs that paid 3 times what they would make if they stayed in the south?

None have you have explained why it took 50 years for that "institutionalized racism" to suddenly spur a migration!

I didnt know it had to be explained. I thought you had at least an iota of common sense.

Then explain it...

Its easy to explain. White people dont know shit. They have no fucking clue when Blacks started going north.

 

[IM2]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.

But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.

So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?

Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.

IMO opinion:

The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.

I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.

Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.

That can't be denied.

Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?

Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.

Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

I argue what is true son. I don't think that blacks moved north because of racism. I KNOW THEY DID. I KNOW THEY DID BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME THEY DID. I don't NEED shit. You NEED for it not to be racism so you do not feel like you're being blamed. The facts are the words the blacks told me about why they moved north. Not your assumption about jobs. Why in the fuck do you white boys think you can tell us about our own mother fucking history? You don't even know yours.

 

[Markle]

On February 26, 2018, 50 years after the Kerner Commission findings, the Economic Policy Institute published a report evaluating the progress of the black community since the Kerner Report was released. It was based on a study done by the Economic Policy Institute that compared the progress of the black community with the condition of the black community at the time of the Kerner Commission. The Kerner Commission met in 1968 and made recommendation on how to move toward racial progress. Titled “50 years after the Kerner Commission,” the study’s central premise was that there had been some improvements in the situation blacks faced but still face disadvantages that were based on race.

Here are some of the findings.

African Americans today are much better educated than they were in 1968 but still lag behind whites in overall educational attainment. More than 90 percent of younger African Americans (ages 25 to 29) have graduated from high school, compared with just over half in 1968—which means they’ve nearly closed the gap with white high school graduation rates. They are also more than twice as likely to have a college degree as in 1968 but are still half as likely as young whites to have a college degree.

The substantial progress in educational attainment of African Americans has been accompanied by significant absolute improvements in wages, incomes, wealth, and health since 1968. But black workers still make only 82.5 cents on every dollar earned by white workers, African Americans are 2.5 times as likely to be in poverty as whites, and the median white family has almost 10 times as much wealth as the median black family.

With respect to homeownership, unemployment, and incarceration, America has failed to deliver any progress for African Americans over the last five decades. In these areas, their situation has either failed to improve relative to whites or has worsened. In 2017 the black unemployment rate was 7.5 percent, up from 6.7 percent in 1968, and is still roughly twice the white unemployment rate. In 2015, the black homeownership rate was just over 40 percent, virtually unchanged since 1968, and trailing a full 30 points behind the white homeownership rate, which saw modest gains over the same period. And the share of African Americans in prison or jail almost tripled between 1968 and 2016 and is currently more than six times the white incarceration rate.

Following up on this, Richard Rothstein of the Economic Policy Institute, wrote an op ed published in the February 28th edition of the New York Daily News entitled, “50 years after the Kerner Commission, minimal racial progress.” It had been 50 years since the commission made those recommendations at that point, yet Rothstein makes this statement: “So little has changed since 1968 that the report remains worth reading as a near-contemporary description of racial inequality.” People knowing nothing about responsibility want to lecture us on being accountable for our own situation. Since our situation is caused by white racism, we are held accountable and responsible to point it out and then demand that it stop.

The blacks get rich off racism is a meme created in modern times by that fat slob Limbaugh. Of course some of you here will try repeating the idiotic comments made during Jim Crow by Booker T. Washington. For him to say that while looking at the carnage done by whites right in his face is a historical example of foolishness that is unprecedented. You can't get rich off racism if there is none and when you look at those leaders you are not looking at overly wealthy people.


View attachment 329358
Al Sharpton has been estimated net worth of around $1 Million as of April 2020.
View attachment 329367

As of April 2020, Jesse Jackson’s estimated net worth is $15 million.
View attachment 329363
As of April 2020, Farrakhan’s estimated net worth is $5 million
View attachment 329365
As of April 2020, Rush Limbaugh has an estimated net worth of more than $700 million. He is one of the highest-paid people in the United States.
View attachment 329366
As of April 2020, the estimated net worth of Sean Hannity is approximately $300 million.
And here we see just exactly who has gotten famously rich from using race.

Are those one million dollars for Al Sharpton AFTER deducting the $4.5 million he owes in Income taxes?

l Sharpton gets $1M in pay from his own charity
By Melissa Klein and Georgett Roberts
November 16, 2019 | 5:15pm | Updated

Rev. Al Sharpton speaking at National Action Network Manhattan headquarters on Saturday.Robert Miller

Al Sharpton's 2004 presidential campaign still owes more than $900K

He’s the million-dollar minister.

The Rev. Al Sharpton raked in $1,046,948 from his own charity last year, according to National Action Network’s latest tax filings obtained by The Post.

Sharpton got a $324,000 salary — 32% higher than his 2017 pay — in addition to a $159,596 bonus and $563,352 in “other compensation.”

Al Sharpton gets $1M in pay from his own charity

He’s the million-dollar minister. The Rev. Al Sharpton raked in $1,046,948 from his own charity last year, according to National Action Network’s latest tax filings obtained by The Post…

nypost.com

###

Calling Rush Limbaugh racist is just ignorance on your part.

His most important employee is his producer and call screener for more than 30 years. James Golden is a black man. The minister who married Rush is a black man. Is Rush a homophobe? Elton John was who provided the music and entertainment at the same wedding.

Nothing will change your mind about racism. You don't even believe the garbage you spout but you enjoy the pig fight.

 

[Markle]

Its easy to explain. White people dont know shit. They have no fucking clue when Blacks started going north.

Who cares?

 

[Asclepias]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.

But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.

So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?

Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.

IMO opinion:

The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.

I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.

Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.

That can't be denied.

Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?

Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.

Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

I argue what is true son. I don't think that blacks moved north because of racism. I KNOW THEY DID. I KNOW THEY DID BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME THEY DID. I don't NEED shit. You NEED for it not to be racism so you do not feel like you're being blamed. The facts are the words the blacks told me about why they moved north. Not your assumption about jobs. Why in the fuck do you white boys think you can tell us about our own mother fucking history? You don't even know yours.

See? And then white people get pissed off when we laugh at how fucking stupid they are. Its amazing they think they can tell us when and why our families left the south.

 

[Asclepias]

Its easy to explain. White people dont know shit. They have no fucking clue when Blacks started going north.

Who cares?

The person that asked me and anyone that makes a remark in response to it. Why do you ask?

 

[IM2]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.

But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.

So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?

Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.

IMO opinion:

The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.

I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.

Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.

That can't be denied.

Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?

Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.

Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

You sound like a fucking idiot. Every Black person I know will tell you their family left the south because of the institutionalized racism there. Of course it helped that there were jobs but dont get it twisted.

It "helped" that there were jobs that paid 3 times what they would make if they stayed in the south?

None have you have explained why it took 50 years for that "institutionalized racism" to suddenly spur a migration!

We don't need to explain that to you. Blacks started going north from the time of slavery so no one was waiting for anything.

And yet The Great Migration is listed as taking place between 1920 and 1970? Gee, IM2...did slavery end in 1919? Duh?

I had relatives that participated in the great migration. Did you?

 

[Oldestyle]

I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.

But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.

So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!

A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!

You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.

So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?

Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.

IMO opinion:

The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.

I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.

Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.

That can't be denied.

Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?

Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.

Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

I argue what is true son. I don't think that blacks moved north because of racism. I KNOW THEY DID. I KNOW THEY DID BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME THEY DID. I don't NEED shit. You NEED for it not to be racism so you do not feel like you're being blamed. The facts are the words the blacks told me about why they moved north. Not your assumption about jobs. Why in the fuck do you white boys think you can tell us about our own mother fucking history? You don't even know yours.

Yeah, right...you didn't even know what The Great Migration WAS at the beginning of this debate!