Oldestyle
Diamond Member
I have a relative that commanded a black regiment in the Civil War. Did you?It "helped" that there were jobs that paid 3 times what they would make if they stayed in the south?You sound like a fucking idiot. Every Black person I know will tell you their family left the south because of the institutionalized racism there. Of course it helped that there were jobs but dont get it twisted.Why do you continuing arguing with blacks whose family members moved during the great migration? Why are you trying to tell us why it happened when we were told why by the blacks who actually did the moving? We did not come to these opinions by reading about it in a white written textbook, that was published by a white company, then approved by a majority or all white state education board.Sigh...racist policies existed in the south long before 1920, Katsteve! So why were blacks not afraid of them in the fifty years since the Civil War? In 1920 the Klan was reconstituting but this time it was not just in the south...there were an estimated 40,000 Klansmen in the Detroit area. So explain to me why blacks would leave the south out of fear of the Klan when the Klan was now in the area they were going to be moving to but DIDN'T move when the Klan was only in the south?Racism was the reason. I'm done arguing with you about that.You are white. I am black with family that made the move. It was due to racism, period. That is what they and all the old blacks I talked to while growing up told me. You can have all the opinion you want, you can believe what you want, but the facts have nothing to do with your wants.So let me see if I follow your rationale here, Tom! You think that it took two generations of blacks living in the south before they were suddenly overwhelmed by the "reality of American racism" and THAT caused millions of them to uproot and move to the north? That's what you're going with to explain why The Great Exodus started in 1920 and not in 1870? With all due respect...that's absurd!I read your historical comments carefully, Oldstyle . I was inclined at first to agree with you when you first mentioned the economic pull of better paying jobs in the north, about WWI creating job opportunities for southern African Americans, about decreased family farm ownership among all groups. Obviously for many blacks WWI opened up a possible escape from poverty and oppression. Many were long economically and politically forced into de facto slavery in the south. They were a despised race-color caste of sharecroppers, prisoners searching for any escape.
But then you started this narrow game about why they didn’t leave earlier, challenging IM2 to “explain that!,” and I concluded you were not trying to educate but just win a point, a point you were fundamentally ignorant about. As I tried to explain earlier, NOTHING about the African-American experience in that period, not life in the south, not life in the north, not buying a tiny farm or losing that farm, not staying in the south, not moving to the north .... can be explained adequately without reference to the overwhelming reality of American racism. This was a period of increasing national racism, north and south. Black scholars understand this. Most whites have no idea.
A more reasonable explanation is that a massive shortage of labor in the north brought on by the First World War prompted northern industrialists to recruit southern black labor to work in their factories. It isn't that the southern blacks were reacting to southern racism because let's be honest here...racism was alive and well from the close of the Civil War until the start of WWI...it's that they were reacting to the promise of a better life in the north. A better life because of better jobs!
So jobs in the north that paid three times what they did in the south wasn't a contributing factor? Just a coincidence that occurred at the start of The Great Migration?
IMO opinion:
The migration occurred due to racist policies in the south, which also affected the available jobs for blacks.
I recall vividly, the fear that southern black people felt about the Klan, and how they expressed the need to leave.
Job opportunities were definitely a part of it, but the blatant racism in the south was also a big factor as well.
That can't be denied.
Why do you continue to argue something that's totally illogical? You think millions of blacks moved north because of racism? That's laughable. Millions of blacks moved north because of high paying jobs that were available because World War I took away the white workers in the north. I know you NEED it be because of racism...because that supports your white man is to blame for all things bad concept but it doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.
None have you have explained why it took 50 years for that "institutionalized racism" to suddenly spur a migration!
We don't need to explain that to you. Blacks started going north from the time of slavery so no one was waiting for anything.
And yet The Great Migration is listed as taking place between 1920 and 1970? Gee, IM2...did slavery end in 1919? Duh?
I had relatives that participated in the great migration. Did you?
Does that make me the authority on the Civil War? Duh?