So What Happened To Blacks After Slavery?

[IM2]

I don’t include you, @flacaltenn, among those who badger and insult just for partisan purposes. Doesn’t seem like you would do such a thing. I hope not.

Trust me.. My interests LIE in a scientific inquiry into racial/religious bias and disparities and how to FIX THEM.. Not interested in the PAST -- I'm looking at the HERE and NOW.. And since I DO HAVE some "diversity and grievance points" myself -- I know that racists are universally stupid and can not DEFEND their bias intellectually.. Just like it's futile for a "Diversity Scholar" to prove racism by looking at economic/education/law and justice issues that afflict ALL races/creeds to some same extent and CONCLUDE the SOLE CAUSE is racism.. It is not.. Working TOGETHER on those issues improves race relations.. ACCUSING PEOPLE like me of BEING a racist and holding a chanting, politically correct demonstration in threads does not...

Your interests seem to lie in denying racism and calling opposition to white racism political correctness. I have presented science, try talking about it.

Only "science" I've seen was an ATTEMPT at the 2018 Hate Crime stats that I had to sort out for you.. Political science is taught in the Liberal Arts. It's a completely foreign concept to me.. When it becomes "social science" I can better identify because that's in the general universe of reason and numbers and facts..

Psychological information is science. You really aren't interested in facts here flacaltenn, because public policy is part of this equation and I have been presenting that since I came here. You and others here have called me a racist for it. You aren't interested in working together, you like the other whites of your ideology have a set of assumptions about blacks and think that your suggestions based on those assumptions are things we need to work on.

 

[flacaltenn]

Did IM2 say anything like the above? He quoted many academic studies, and most of them were well worth reading. When he defends Obama — a genuinely well educated man; when he uses W.E.B. Dubois as his avatar — a man who could outthink any one of us in several languages, he doesn’t show disrespect for academic achievement. Yet he gets insulted by many here just for supporting his party and the party of Obama and most African-Americans!

Attempting to correct racial disparities requires a complete and open-minded exploration of the causes for those disparities.. Blaming racism before you DO THAT is too convenient and simplistic. MANY of those causes are SYSTEMIC -- and only affect the black community in an unequal manner BECAUSE of education and economic gaps.. The Big Three being education, economic income and access to EQUAL and ACCOMMODATING justice that takes into account the special needs of folks living on the edge of economic ruin.

NOWHERE did I mention Obama.. NOWHERE did I demean Dubois or ANY OTHER black high academic achiever.. In FACT -- I've REPEATEDLY suggested that SUCCESSFUL and high achieving blacks BE used as role models.. Don't give a damn about their politics.. IM2 in the past has posted mind numbing crap about "math and science" as being "racist".. He's DISSED high acheiving blacks that dont fit his political views REPEATEDLY.. Its VERY political how he excommunicates high achieving blacks that DO NOT FIT HIS POLITICS... I don't play that game, because I'm a FIXER of things. Not a demagogue.

Fair enough. I didn’t mean you when I said people insult IM2 — and others — just for supporting “the party of Obama and most African Americans.” I am happy if you respect the intelligence and academic achievement of men like W.E.B. DuBois, who himself lived a long life in which he was at different times a Lincoln-admiring Republican, a leader of the NAACP, a Socialist and a Pan-Africanist. I haven’t been here long, haven’t seen what you say about IM2, or know you or many people here well. If I strongly disagree with IM2 about such matters in the future, I hope I will find a way to express myself in a constructive way. That is sometimes all we can do when we disagree ... especially about politics and hyper-sensitive issues of race.

BTW TP -- I'm thrilled you're spending time in here. It's GOOD to get more eyes on these issues from ALL angles.. Kudos man..

 

[Sunsettommy]

Did IM2 say anything like the above? He quoted many academic studies, and most of them were well worth reading. When he defends Obama — a genuinely well educated man; when he uses W.E.B. Dubois as his avatar — a man who could outthink any one of us in several languages, he doesn’t show disrespect for academic achievement. Yet he gets insulted by many here just for supporting his party and the party of Obama and most African-Americans!

Attempting to correct racial disparities requires a complete and open-minded exploration of the causes for those disparities.. Blaming racism before you DO THAT is too convenient and simplistic. MANY of those causes are SYSTEMIC -- and only affect the black community in an unequal manner BECAUSE of education and economic gaps.. The Big Three being education, economic income and access to EQUAL and ACCOMMODATING justice that takes into account the special needs of folks living on the edge of economic ruin.

NOWHERE did I mention Obama.. NOWHERE did I demean Dubois or ANY OTHER black high academic achiever.. In FACT -- I've REPEATEDLY suggested that SUCCESSFUL and high achieving blacks BE used as role models.. Don't give a damn about their politics.. IM2 in the past has posted mind numbing crap about "math and science" as being "racist".. He's DISSED high acheiving blacks that dont fit his political views REPEATEDLY.. Its VERY political how he excommunicates high achieving blacks that DO NOT FIT HIS POLITICS... I don't play that game, because I'm a FIXER of things. Not a demagogue.

Fair enough. I didn’t mean you when I said people insult IM2 — and others — just for supporting “the party of Obama and most African Americans.” I am happy if you respect the intelligence and academic achievement of men like W.E.B. DuBois, who himself lived a long life in which he was at different times a Lincoln-admiring Republican, a leader of the NAACP, a Socialist and a Pan-Africanist. I haven’t been here long, haven’t seen what you say about IM2, or know you or many people here well. If I strongly disagree with IM2 about such matters in the future, I hope I will find a way to express myself in a constructive way. That is sometimes all we can do when we disagree ... especially about politics.

Can't we all just "get along" ??? Actually not really a rhetorical question.. Because after going 20 or 30 pages with some of the "black educators" here -- the most IMPORTANT thing you'll learn TP, is that they are afeared of stuff like "racial reconcilation".. Aint shopping for any improved "social interactions that might result from honest discussion.. Because IF that happened, THEY would become irrelevant.. In a Kumbaya world -- some of resident "grievance scholars" would be VERY unhappy that the PAST and history is IN the past..

IM2 is knowledgeable, but he doesn't know when to stop pounding the past on us, who can't do anything about it.

I have tried several time to have him realize it is so much better than it used to be for black Americans. He persist on the gnashing of teeth replies, I think he is scared to realize he IS the one who has a problem, not like many black folks I have met in various places, who have no problem seeing a White man in front of him.

That is why he turns me off, the persistent insistence for the past, the one that mostly vanished by today.

 

[IM2]

Did IM2 say anything like the above? He quoted many academic studies, and most of them were well worth reading. When he defends Obama — a genuinely well educated man; when he uses W.E.B. Dubois as his avatar — a man who could outthink any one of us in several languages, he doesn’t show disrespect for academic achievement. Yet he gets insulted by many here just for supporting his party and the party of Obama and most African-Americans!

Attempting to correct racial disparities requires a complete and open-minded exploration of the causes for those disparities.. Blaming racism before you DO THAT is too convenient and simplistic. MANY of those causes are SYSTEMIC -- and only affect the black community in an unequal manner BECAUSE of education and economic gaps.. The Big Three being education, economic income and access to EQUAL and ACCOMMODATING justice that takes into account the special needs of folks living on the edge of economic ruin.

NOWHERE did I mention Obama.. NOWHERE did I demean Dubois or ANY OTHER black high academic achiever.. In FACT -- I've REPEATEDLY suggested that SUCCESSFUL and high achieving blacks BE used as role models.. Don't give a damn about their politics.. IM2 in the past has posted mind numbing crap about "math and science" as being "racist".. He's DISSED high acheiving blacks that dont fit his political views REPEATEDLY.. Its VERY political how he excommunicates high achieving blacks that DO NOT FIT HIS POLITICS... I don't play that game, because I'm a FIXER of things. Not a demagogue.

Fair enough. I didn’t mean you when I said people insult IM2 — and others — just for supporting “the party of Obama and most African Americans.” I am happy if you respect the intelligence and academic achievement of men like W.E.B. DuBois, who himself lived a long life in which he was at different times a Lincoln-admiring Republican, a leader of the NAACP, a Socialist and a Pan-Africanist. I haven’t been here long, haven’t seen what you say about IM2, or know you or many people here well. If I strongly disagree with IM2 about such matters in the future, I hope I will find a way to express myself in a constructive way. That is sometimes all we can do when we disagree ... especially about politics.

Can't we all just "get along" ??? Actually not really a rhetorical question.. Because after going 20 or 30 pages with some of the "black educators" here -- the most IMPORTANT thing you'll learn TP, is that they are afeared of stuff like "racial reconcilation".. Aint shopping for any improved "social interactions that might result from honest discussion.. Because IF that happened, THEY would become irrelevant.. In a Kumbaya world -- some of resident "grievance scholars" would be VERY unhappy that the PAST and history is IN the past..

Nobody here is scared of racial reconciliation but you. And you prove that with what you just told Paine. You believe that crazy shit. You are the one that cannot handle honest discussion. An honest discussion means you are able to accept that past racism has caused damage that continues now as well ads the fact that continuing racism by whites exacerbates the already unfixed damage. Instead you offer solutions like blacks moving into all white rural towns.

 

[flacaltenn]

I don’t include you, @flacaltenn, among those who badger and insult just for partisan purposes. Doesn’t seem like you would do such a thing. I hope not.

Trust me.. My interests LIE in a scientific inquiry into racial/religious bias and disparities and how to FIX THEM.. Not interested in the PAST -- I'm looking at the HERE and NOW.. And since I DO HAVE some "diversity and grievance points" myself -- I know that racists are universally stupid and can not DEFEND their bias intellectually.. Just like it's futile for a "Diversity Scholar" to prove racism by looking at economic/education/law and justice issues that afflict ALL races/creeds to some same extent and CONCLUDE the SOLE CAUSE is racism.. It is not.. Working TOGETHER on those issues improves race relations.. ACCUSING PEOPLE like me of BEING a racist and holding a chanting, politically correct demonstration in threads does not...

Your interests seem to lie in denying racism and calling opposition to white racism political correctness. I have presented science, try talking about it.

Only "science" I've seen was an ATTEMPT at the 2018 Hate Crime stats that I had to sort out for you.. Political science is taught in the Liberal Arts. It's a completely foreign concept to me.. When it becomes "social science" I can better identify because that's in the general universe of reason and numbers and facts..

Psychological information is science. You really aren't interested in facts here flacaltenn, because public policy is part of this equation and I have been presenting that since I came here. You and others here have called me a racist for it. You aren't interested in working together, you like the other whites of your ideology have a set of assumptions about blacks and think that your suggestions based on those assumptions are things we need to work on.

I've never called you racist for talking about public policy that HURTS black communities.. We've had disagreements over whether those policies are RACIST or just stupid when they HURT economically/education disadvantage people of ALL colors..

And behavioral research in psychology is not YET a hard science.. Many "experiments" fail to replicate because of the protocols used or unexpected selection bias in the participants.. This applies to MANY of the "racial discrimination" papers that you've presented..

I know this because I talked my daughter out of going post grad in Neurology thru the Psych Dept and encouraged her to take the Med School approach.. Told her just to LOOK at the labs and equipment in EACH of two and tell me WHICH ONE --- looked like real science..

 

[Sunsettommy]

Did IM2 say anything like the above? He quoted many academic studies, and most of them were well worth reading. When he defends Obama — a genuinely well educated man; when he uses W.E.B. Dubois as his avatar — a man who could outthink any one of us in several languages, he doesn’t show disrespect for academic achievement. Yet he gets insulted by many here just for supporting his party and the party of Obama and most African-Americans!

Attempting to correct racial disparities requires a complete and open-minded exploration of the causes for those disparities.. Blaming racism before you DO THAT is too convenient and simplistic. MANY of those causes are SYSTEMIC -- and only affect the black community in an unequal manner BECAUSE of education and economic gaps.. The Big Three being education, economic income and access to EQUAL and ACCOMMODATING justice that takes into account the special needs of folks living on the edge of economic ruin.

NOWHERE did I mention Obama.. NOWHERE did I demean Dubois or ANY OTHER black high academic achiever.. In FACT -- I've REPEATEDLY suggested that SUCCESSFUL and high achieving blacks BE used as role models.. Don't give a damn about their politics.. IM2 in the past has posted mind numbing crap about "math and science" as being "racist".. He's DISSED high acheiving blacks that dont fit his political views REPEATEDLY.. Its VERY political how he excommunicates high achieving blacks that DO NOT FIT HIS POLITICS... I don't play that game, because I'm a FIXER of things. Not a demagogue.

Fair enough. I didn’t mean you when I said people insult IM2 — and others — just for supporting “the party of Obama and most African Americans.” I am happy if you respect the intelligence and academic achievement of men like W.E.B. DuBois, who himself lived a long life in which he was at different times a Lincoln-admiring Republican, a leader of the NAACP, a Socialist and a Pan-Africanist. I haven’t been here long, haven’t seen what you say about IM2, or know you or many people here well. If I strongly disagree with IM2 about such matters in the future, I hope I will find a way to express myself in a constructive way. That is sometimes all we can do when we disagree ... especially about politics.

Can't we all just "get along" ??? Actually not really a rhetorical question.. Because after going 20 or 30 pages with some of the "black educators" here -- the most IMPORTANT thing you'll learn TP, is that they are afeared of stuff like "racial reconcilation".. Aint shopping for any improved "social interactions that might result from honest discussion.. Because IF that happened, THEY would become irrelevant.. In a Kumbaya world -- some of resident "grievance scholars" would be VERY unhappy that the PAST and history is IN the past..

Nobody here is scared of racial reconciliation but you. And you prove that with what you just told Paine. You believe that crazy shit. You are the one that cannot handle honest discussion. An honest discussion means you are able to accept that past racism has caused damage that continues now as well ads the fact that continuing racism by whites exacerbates the already unfixed damage. Instead you offer solutions like blacks moving into all white rural towns.

You can't even see what you are doing, you are so invested in racism, that you can't see that YOU are the one with the problem. You are the one trying hard to drag in the past to the future, while actually most of the past injustice has withered away by today.

You need to cool down man.

 

[Sunsettommy]

I don’t include you, @flacaltenn, among those who badger and insult just for partisan purposes. Doesn’t seem like you would do such a thing. I hope not.

Trust me.. My interests LIE in a scientific inquiry into racial/religious bias and disparities and how to FIX THEM.. Not interested in the PAST -- I'm looking at the HERE and NOW.. And since I DO HAVE some "diversity and grievance points" myself -- I know that racists are universally stupid and can not DEFEND their bias intellectually.. Just like it's futile for a "Diversity Scholar" to prove racism by looking at economic/education/law and justice issues that afflict ALL races/creeds to some same extent and CONCLUDE the SOLE CAUSE is racism.. It is not.. Working TOGETHER on those issues improves race relations.. ACCUSING PEOPLE like me of BEING a racist and holding a chanting, politically correct demonstration in threads does not...

Your interests seem to lie in denying racism and calling opposition to white racism political correctness. I have presented science, try talking about it.

Only "science" I've seen was an ATTEMPT at the 2018 Hate Crime stats that I had to sort out for you.. Political science is taught in the Liberal Arts. It's a completely foreign concept to me.. When it becomes "social science" I can better identify because that's in the general universe of reason and numbers and facts..

Psychological information is science. You really aren't interested in facts here flacaltenn, because public policy is part of this equation and I have been presenting that since I came here. You and others here have called me a racist for it. You aren't interested in working together, you like the other whites of your ideology have a set of assumptions about blacks and think that your suggestions based on those assumptions are things we need to work on.

I've never called you racist for talking about public policy that HURTS black communities.. We've had disagreements over whether those policies are RACIST or just stupid when they HURT economically/education disadvantage people of ALL colors..

And behavioral research in psychology is not YET a hard science.. Many "experiments" fail to replicate because of the protocols used or unexpected selection bias in the participants.. This applies to MANY of the "racial discrimination" papers that you've presented..

I know this because I talked my daughter out of going post grad in Neurology thru the Psych Dept and encouraged her to take the Med School approach.. Told her just to LOOK at the labs and equipment in EACH of two and tell me WHICH ONE --- looked like real science..

He has called me a racist, insist that I pay reparations, despite my telling him that my past family has NEVER held slaves, never supported the institution of slavery, and lived in New Hampshire the whole time from the late 1600's to late 1800's.

Yet he thinks I am a racist for refusing to pay reparations, he has made clear he despises whites, that is why he goes on and on with his race whines week in week out, while normal people go out and live.

 

[flacaltenn]

An honest discussion means you are able to accept that past racism has caused damage that continues now as well ads the fact that continuing racism by whites exacerbates the already unfixed damage. Instead you offer solutions like blacks moving into all white rural towns.

You're right I see no use in retaining piss about the conditions of WORLD CULTURE at that time.,. I'd say the SAME thing about Women's Suffrage being a prop-up for the current feminist movement. Or the abuse of Jews in the 1600s being used as an excuse for Israel..

The ONLY thing we really disagree is HOW TO FIX IT.. And when you get to the nugget of your proposals for "fixing it" -- it sounds more like a political platform than a scientific solution.. You spend 80% of your time here trying to "soften people up" for your GOVERNMENT ENFORCED solutions to racism...

Same way my daughter learned that neurology in a Psych program was just studying neurological issues and the Med school reseach version was focused on FIXING them...

 

[flacaltenn]

I don’t include you, @flacaltenn, among those who badger and insult just for partisan purposes. Doesn’t seem like you would do such a thing. I hope not.

Trust me.. My interests LIE in a scientific inquiry into racial/religious bias and disparities and how to FIX THEM.. Not interested in the PAST -- I'm looking at the HERE and NOW.. And since I DO HAVE some "diversity and grievance points" myself -- I know that racists are universally stupid and can not DEFEND their bias intellectually.. Just like it's futile for a "Diversity Scholar" to prove racism by looking at economic/education/law and justice issues that afflict ALL races/creeds to some same extent and CONCLUDE the SOLE CAUSE is racism.. It is not.. Working TOGETHER on those issues improves race relations.. ACCUSING PEOPLE like me of BEING a racist and holding a chanting, politically correct demonstration in threads does not...

Your interests seem to lie in denying racism and calling opposition to white racism political correctness. I have presented science, try talking about it.

Only "science" I've seen was an ATTEMPT at the 2018 Hate Crime stats that I had to sort out for you.. Political science is taught in the Liberal Arts. It's a completely foreign concept to me.. When it becomes "social science" I can better identify because that's in the general universe of reason and numbers and facts..

Psychological information is science. You really aren't interested in facts here flacaltenn, because public policy is part of this equation and I have been presenting that since I came here. You and others here have called me a racist for it. You aren't interested in working together, you like the other whites of your ideology have a set of assumptions about blacks and think that your suggestions based on those assumptions are things we need to work on.

I've never called you racist for talking about public policy that HURTS black communities.. We've had disagreements over whether those policies are RACIST or just stupid when they HURT economically/education disadvantage people of ALL colors..

And behavioral research in psychology is not YET a hard science.. Many "experiments" fail to replicate because of the protocols used or unexpected selection bias in the participants.. This applies to MANY of the "racial discrimination" papers that you've presented..

I know this because I talked my daughter out of going post grad in Neurology thru the Psych Dept and encouraged her to take the Med School approach.. Told her just to LOOK at the labs and equipment in EACH of two and tell me WHICH ONE --- looked like real science..

He has called me a racist, insist that I pay reparations, despite my telling him that my past family has NEVER held slaves, never supported the institution of slavery, and lived in New Hampshire the whole time from the late 1600's to late 1800's.

Yet he thinks I am a racist for refusing to pay reparations, he has made clear he despises whites, that is why he goes on and on with his race whines week in week out, while normal people go out and live.

Only way to PUSH those "political solutions" is to beat people into submission with the KNOWN failures of government in the past... It's kinda ironic -- and not a job I would take on...

 

[miketx]

No, the farmers kicked all the whites farmers out and had to beg them to come back. Fact, liar. Because the dumbasses had no clue.

You said 'for centuries', not me.

Liar, as expected.

 

[Dr Grump]

No, the farmers kicked all the whites farmers out and had to beg them to come back. Fact, liar. Because the dumbasses had no clue.

You said 'for centuries', not me.

Liar, as expected.

Post #7, last sentence. Are there two Miketx posters, Weasel's Piss?

 

[IM2]

Did IM2 say anything like the above? He quoted many academic studies, and most of them were well worth reading. When he defends Obama — a genuinely well educated man; when he uses W.E.B. Dubois as his avatar — a man who could outthink any one of us in several languages, he doesn’t show disrespect for academic achievement. Yet he gets insulted by many here just for supporting his party and the party of Obama and most African-Americans!

Attempting to correct racial disparities requires a complete and open-minded exploration of the causes for those disparities.. Blaming racism before you DO THAT is too convenient and simplistic. MANY of those causes are SYSTEMIC -- and only affect the black community in an unequal manner BECAUSE of education and economic gaps.. The Big Three being education, economic income and access to EQUAL and ACCOMMODATING justice that takes into account the special needs of folks living on the edge of economic ruin.

NOWHERE did I mention Obama.. NOWHERE did I demean Dubois or ANY OTHER black high academic achiever.. In FACT -- I've REPEATEDLY suggested that SUCCESSFUL and high achieving blacks BE used as role models.. Don't give a damn about their politics.. IM2 in the past has posted mind numbing crap about "math and science" as being "racist".. He's DISSED high acheiving blacks that dont fit his political views REPEATEDLY.. Its VERY political how he excommunicates high achieving blacks that DO NOT FIT HIS POLITICS... I don't play that game, because I'm a FIXER of things. Not a demagogue.

Fair enough. I didn’t mean you when I said people insult IM2 — and others — just for supporting “the party of Obama and most African Americans.” I am happy if you respect the intelligence and academic achievement of men like W.E.B. DuBois, who himself lived a long life in which he was at different times a Lincoln-admiring Republican, a leader of the NAACP, a Socialist and a Pan-Africanist. I haven’t been here long, haven’t seen what you say about IM2, or know you or many people here well. If I strongly disagree with IM2 about such matters in the future, I hope I will find a way to express myself in a constructive way. That is sometimes all we can do when we disagree ... especially about politics.

Can't we all just "get along" ??? Actually not really a rhetorical question.. Because after going 20 or 30 pages with some of the "black educators" here -- the most IMPORTANT thing you'll learn TP, is that they are afeared of stuff like "racial reconcilation".. Aint shopping for any improved "social interactions that might result from honest discussion.. Because IF that happened, THEY would become irrelevant.. In a Kumbaya world -- some of resident "grievance scholars" would be VERY unhappy that the PAST and history is IN the past..

IM2 is knowledgeable, but he doesn't know when to stop pounding the past on us, who can't do anything about it.

I have tried several time to have him realize it is so much better than it used to be for black Americans. He persist on the gnashing of teeth replies, I think he is scared to realize he IS the one who has a problem, not like many black folks I have met in various places, who have no problem seeing a White man in front of him.

That is why he turns me off, the persistent insistence for the past, the one that mostly vanished by today.

I don't think you know many blacks. I am very capable of seeing how the world is around me. You need to read this. Now while you want to explain to me how things aren't as I see them and can only be as you tell me, people who actually pay attention to such things say different. So I will repost this:

On February 26, 2018, 50 years after the Kerner Commission findings, the Economic Policy Institute published a report evaluating the progress of the black community since the Kerner Report was released. It was based on a study done by the Economic Policy Institute that compared the progress of the black community with the condition of the black community at the time of the Kerner Commission. The Kerner Commission met in 1968 and made recommendation on how to move toward racial progress. Titled “50 years after the Kerner Commission,” the study’s central premise was that there had been some improvements in the situation blacks faced but still face disadvantages that were based on race.

Here are some of the findings.

African Americans today are much better educated than they were in 1968 but still lag behind whites in overall educational attainment. More than 90 percent of younger African Americans (ages 25 to 29) have graduated from high school, compared with just over half in 1968—which means they’ve nearly closed the gap with white high school graduation rates. They are also more than twice as likely to have a college degree as in 1968 but are still half as likely as young whites to have a college degree.

The substantial progress in educational attainment of African Americans has been accompanied by significant absolute improvements in wages, incomes, wealth, and health since 1968. But black workers still make only 82.5 cents on every dollar earned by white workers, African Americans are 2.5 times as likely to be in poverty as whites, and the median white family has almost 10 times as much wealth as the median black family.

With respect to homeownership, unemployment, and incarceration, America has failed to deliver any progress for African Americans over the last five decades. In these areas, their situation has either failed to improve relative to whites or has worsened. In 2017 the black unemployment rate was 7.5 percent, up from 6.7 percent in 1968, and is still roughly twice the white unemployment rate. In 2015, the black homeownership rate was just over 40 percent, virtually unchanged since 1968, and trailing a full 30 points behind the white homeownership rate, which saw modest gains over the same period. And the share of African Americans in prison or jail almost tripled between 1968 and 2016 and is currently more than six times the guy white incarceration rate.

Following up on this, Richard Rothstein of the Economic Policy Institute, wrote an op ed published in the February 28th edition of the New York Daily News entitled, “50 years after the Kerner Commission, minimal racial progress.” It had been 50 years since the commission made those recommendations at that point, yet Rothstein makes this statement: “So little has changed since 1968 that the report remains worth reading as a near-contemporary description of racial inequality.”

These words were not written in the long ago past. They were written 2 years ago. They were not written by some angry black you ignorantly and wrongfully assume has a problem with white people. This was not written by a black person some retard thinks will lose relevance if true racial reconciliation happens, it was written by:

This guy. Richard Rothstein. You want me to be satisfied with an undone job. Until white racism is gone talking about how there has been all this great improvement is BS. And I guarantee that if you went into a majority black forum trying to lecture them about how much better things are today and how you don't like the past being hammered, you would delete yourself from membership after they got done with you.

When a man like the great John Lewis who got his skull busted fighting for my freedom, says we have come a long way but we still have a long way to go, you nor anyone here thinking like you can tell me shit.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Did IM2 say anything like the above? He quoted many academic studies, and most of them were well worth reading. When he defends Obama — a genuinely well educated man; when he uses W.E.B. Dubois as his avatar — a man who could outthink any one of us in several languages, he doesn’t show disrespect for academic achievement. Yet he gets insulted by many here just for supporting his party and the party of Obama and most African-Americans!

Attempting to correct racial disparities requires a complete and open-minded exploration of the causes for those disparities.. Blaming racism before you DO THAT is too convenient and simplistic. MANY of those causes are SYSTEMIC -- and only affect the black community in an unequal manner BECAUSE of education and economic gaps.. The Big Three being education, economic income and access to EQUAL and ACCOMMODATING justice that takes into account the special needs of folks living on the edge of economic ruin.

NOWHERE did I mention Obama.. NOWHERE did I demean Dubois or ANY OTHER black high academic achiever.. In FACT -- I've REPEATEDLY suggested that SUCCESSFUL and high achieving blacks BE used as role models.. Don't give a damn about their politics.. IM2 in the past has posted mind numbing crap about "math and science" as being "racist".. He's DISSED high acheiving blacks that dont fit his political views REPEATEDLY.. Its VERY political how he excommunicates high achieving blacks that DO NOT FIT HIS POLITICS... I don't play that game, because I'm a FIXER of things. Not a demagogue.

Fair enough. I didn’t mean you when I said people insult IM2 — and others — just for supporting “the party of Obama and most African Americans.” I am happy if you respect the intelligence and academic achievement of men like W.E.B. DuBois, who himself lived a long life in which he was at different times a Lincoln-admiring Republican, a leader of the NAACP, a Socialist and a Pan-Africanist. I haven’t been here long, haven’t seen what you say about IM2, or know you or many people here well. If I strongly disagree with IM2 about such matters in the future, I hope I will find a way to express myself in a constructive way. That is sometimes all we can do when we disagree ... especially about politics.

Can't we all just "get along" ??? Actually not really a rhetorical question.. Because after going 20 or 30 pages with some of the "black educators" here -- the most IMPORTANT thing you'll learn TP, is that they are afeared of stuff like "racial reconcilation".. Aint shopping for any improved "social interactions that might result from honest discussion.. Because IF that happened, THEY would become irrelevant.. In a Kumbaya world -- some of resident "grievance scholars" would be VERY unhappy that the PAST and history is IN the past..

IM2 is knowledgeable, but he doesn't know when to stop pounding the past on us, who can't do anything about it.

I have tried several time to have him realize it is so much better than it used to be for black Americans. He persist on the gnashing of teeth replies, I think he is scared to realize he IS the one who has a problem, not like many black folks I have met in various places, who have no problem seeing a White man in front of him.

That is why he turns me off, the persistent insistence for the past, the one that mostly vanished by today.

I don't think you know many blacks. I am very capable of seeing how the world is around me. You need to read this. Now while you want to explain to me how things aren't as I see them and can only be as you tell me, people who actually pay attention to such things say different. So I will repost this:

On February 26, 2018, 50 years after the Kerner Commission findings, the Economic Policy Institute published a report evaluating the progress of the black community since the Kerner Report was released. It was based on a study done by the Economic Policy Institute that compared the progress of the black community with the condition of the black community at the time of the Kerner Commission. The Kerner Commission met in 1968 and made recommendation on how to move toward racial progress. Titled “50 years after the Kerner Commission,” the study’s central premise was that there had been some improvements in the situation blacks faced but still face disadvantages that were based on race.

Here are some of the findings.

African Americans today are much better educated than they were in 1968 but still lag behind whites in overall educational attainment. More than 90 percent of younger African Americans (ages 25 to 29) have graduated from high school, compared with just over half in 1968—which means they’ve nearly closed the gap with white high school graduation rates. They are also more than twice as likely to have a college degree as in 1968 but are still half as likely as young whites to have a college degree.

The substantial progress in educational attainment of African Americans has been accompanied by significant absolute improvements in wages, incomes, wealth, and health since 1968. But black workers still make only 82.5 cents on every dollar earned by white workers, African Americans are 2.5 times as likely to be in poverty as whites, and the median white family has almost 10 times as much wealth as the median black family.

With respect to homeownership, unemployment, and incarceration, America has failed to deliver any progress for African Americans over the last five decades. In these areas, their situation has either failed to improve relative to whites or has worsened. In 2017 the black unemployment rate was 7.5 percent, up from 6.7 percent in 1968, and is still roughly twice the white unemployment rate. In 2015, the black homeownership rate was just over 40 percent, virtually unchanged since 1968, and trailing a full 30 points behind the white homeownership rate, which saw modest gains over the same period. And the share of African Americans in prison or jail almost tripled between 1968 and 2016 and is currently more than six times the guy white incarceration rate.

Following up on this, Richard Rothstein of the Economic Policy Institute, wrote an op ed published in the February 28th edition of the New York Daily News entitled, “50 years after the Kerner Commission, minimal racial progress.” It had been 50 years since the commission made those recommendations at that point, yet Rothstein makes this statement: “So little has changed since 1968 that the report remains worth reading as a near-contemporary description of racial inequality.”

These words were not written in the long ago past. They were written 2 years ago. They were not written by some angry black you ignorantly and wrongfully assume has a problem with white people. This was not written by a black person some retard thinks will lose relevance if true racial reconciliation happens, it was written by:

View attachment 329525
This guy. Richard Rothstein. You want me to be satisfied with an undone job. Until white racism is gone talking about how there has been all this great improvement is BS. And I guarantee that if you went into a majority black forum trying to lecture them about how much better things are today and how you don't like the past being hammered, you would delete yourself from membership after they got done with you.

When a man like the great John Lewis who got his skull busted fighting for my freedom, says we have come a long way but we still have a long way to go, you nor anyone here thinking like you can tell me shit.

It is people like YOU who are the problem, you have no idea what goes on in my life and how I treat people. You make assumptions of who I am because I am white, assumptions tends to stray people away from reality.

You have already called me a racist for openly refusing to pay reparations, that my family back to the 1600's when they arrived, never been a slavery supporter. That is why I don't like you because you are trying hard to impute your white hate onto me.

I never said there were no problems, I said the systemic problems have largely gone away. You are trying to find the residue of what it once was, segregation was destroyed by whites.

Whites destroyed the following instittions, that directly effect America:

The Slave trade outlawed in 1808
Slavery outlawed by Amendment in 1868
Full Citizenship and voting granted by 1870
Segregation struck down in 1954
Voting Rights reaffirmed in 1964

Today black Americans now has the full power of the law available.

Most of the unhappy blacks seems to congregate in leftist dominated cities, gee I wonder why?

 

[flacaltenn]

African Americans today are much better educated than they were in 1968 but still lag behind whites in overall educational attainment. More than 90 percent of younger African Americans (ages 25 to 29) have graduated from high school, compared with just over half in 1968—which means they’ve nearly closed the gap with white high school graduation rates. They are also more than twice as likely to have a college degree as in 1968 but are still half as likely as young whites to have a college degree.

Fractured statistic there. The problem with black HS graduation is NOT "a national" problem.. It affects largely the crime/poverty ridden big cities where there IS NO HOPE... Also -- the ones that are products of failing schools that issue diplomas for virtually no academic achievement ROBBED THEM of that chance to go to higher education before they ever ENTERED HS... Not ready for HS when they get there. Certainly not going to college out of HS...

But I'm not even SURE where they GOT these numbers.. Does NOT agree nationally with Dept of Education..

COE - Public High School Graduation Rates

Public High School Graduation Rates
(Last Updated: May 2019)
In school year 2016–17, the adjusted cohort graduation rate (ACGR) for public high school students was 85 percent, the highest it has been since the rate was first measured in 2010–11. Asian/Pacific Islander students had the highest ACGR (91 percent), followed by White (89 percent), Hispanic (80 percent), Black (78 percent), and American Indian/Alaska Native (72 percent) students.

*****************************************************

Here's another source from HHS.. Notice the grad rate in the 70s and 80s -- that's the WORKING poor of Today...

Lots of discrepancies here because some count GEDs, late or delayed graduations, etc..

THe BIG CITIES are still deplorable for black HS grad rates.. EVEN ONE with a less than 75% grad rate would be a crime.. But there are HUNDREDS of failing schools in those cities.. And parents WANT OUT... The ones that care.. Because IF they graduate, the curriculum has been dumbed down so far that they COULD get a diploma and know approximately nothing....

 

[IM2]

Did IM2 say anything like the above? He quoted many academic studies, and most of them were well worth reading. When he defends Obama — a genuinely well educated man; when he uses W.E.B. Dubois as his avatar — a man who could outthink any one of us in several languages, he doesn’t show disrespect for academic achievement. Yet he gets insulted by many here just for supporting his party and the party of Obama and most African-Americans!

Attempting to correct racial disparities requires a complete and open-minded exploration of the causes for those disparities.. Blaming racism before you DO THAT is too convenient and simplistic. MANY of those causes are SYSTEMIC -- and only affect the black community in an unequal manner BECAUSE of education and economic gaps.. The Big Three being education, economic income and access to EQUAL and ACCOMMODATING justice that takes into account the special needs of folks living on the edge of economic ruin.

NOWHERE did I mention Obama.. NOWHERE did I demean Dubois or ANY OTHER black high academic achiever.. In FACT -- I've REPEATEDLY suggested that SUCCESSFUL and high achieving blacks BE used as role models.. Don't give a damn about their politics.. IM2 in the past has posted mind numbing crap about "math and science" as being "racist".. He's DISSED high acheiving blacks that dont fit his political views REPEATEDLY.. Its VERY political how he excommunicates high achieving blacks that DO NOT FIT HIS POLITICS... I don't play that game, because I'm a FIXER of things. Not a demagogue.

Fair enough. I didn’t mean you when I said people insult IM2 — and others — just for supporting “the party of Obama and most African Americans.” I am happy if you respect the intelligence and academic achievement of men like W.E.B. DuBois, who himself lived a long life in which he was at different times a Lincoln-admiring Republican, a leader of the NAACP, a Socialist and a Pan-Africanist. I haven’t been here long, haven’t seen what you say about IM2, or know you or many people here well. If I strongly disagree with IM2 about such matters in the future, I hope I will find a way to express myself in a constructive way. That is sometimes all we can do when we disagree ... especially about politics.

Can't we all just "get along" ??? Actually not really a rhetorical question.. Because after going 20 or 30 pages with some of the "black educators" here -- the most IMPORTANT thing you'll learn TP, is that they are afeared of stuff like "racial reconcilation".. Aint shopping for any improved "social interactions that might result from honest discussion.. Because IF that happened, THEY would become irrelevant.. In a Kumbaya world -- some of resident "grievance scholars" would be VERY unhappy that the PAST and history is IN the past..

IM2 is knowledgeable, but he doesn't know when to stop pounding the past on us, who can't do anything about it.

I have tried several time to have him realize it is so much better than it used to be for black Americans. He persist on the gnashing of teeth replies, I think he is scared to realize he IS the one who has a problem, not like many black folks I have met in various places, who have no problem seeing a White man in front of him.

That is why he turns me off, the persistent insistence for the past, the one that mostly vanished by today.

I don't think you know many blacks. I am very capable of seeing how the world is around me. You need to read this. Now while you want to explain to me how things aren't as I see them and can only be as you tell me, people who actually pay attention to such things say different. So I will repost this:

On February 26, 2018, 50 years after the Kerner Commission findings, the Economic Policy Institute published a report evaluating the progress of the black community since the Kerner Report was released. It was based on a study done by the Economic Policy Institute that compared the progress of the black community with the condition of the black community at the time of the Kerner Commission. The Kerner Commission met in 1968 and made recommendation on how to move toward racial progress. Titled “50 years after the Kerner Commission,” the study’s central premise was that there had been some improvements in the situation blacks faced but still face disadvantages that were based on race.

Here are some of the findings.

African Americans today are much better educated than they were in 1968 but still lag behind whites in overall educational attainment. More than 90 percent of younger African Americans (ages 25 to 29) have graduated from high school, compared with just over half in 1968—which means they’ve nearly closed the gap with white high school graduation rates. They are also more than twice as likely to have a college degree as in 1968 but are still half as likely as young whites to have a college degree.

The substantial progress in educational attainment of African Americans has been accompanied by significant absolute improvements in wages, incomes, wealth, and health since 1968. But black workers still make only 82.5 cents on every dollar earned by white workers, African Americans are 2.5 times as likely to be in poverty as whites, and the median white family has almost 10 times as much wealth as the median black family.

With respect to homeownership, unemployment, and incarceration, America has failed to deliver any progress for African Americans over the last five decades. In these areas, their situation has either failed to improve relative to whites or has worsened. In 2017 the black unemployment rate was 7.5 percent, up from 6.7 percent in 1968, and is still roughly twice the white unemployment rate. In 2015, the black homeownership rate was just over 40 percent, virtually unchanged since 1968, and trailing a full 30 points behind the white homeownership rate, which saw modest gains over the same period. And the share of African Americans in prison or jail almost tripled between 1968 and 2016 and is currently more than six times the guy white incarceration rate.

Following up on this, Richard Rothstein of the Economic Policy Institute, wrote an op ed published in the February 28th edition of the New York Daily News entitled, “50 years after the Kerner Commission, minimal racial progress.” It had been 50 years since the commission made those recommendations at that point, yet Rothstein makes this statement: “So little has changed since 1968 that the report remains worth reading as a near-contemporary description of racial inequality.”

These words were not written in the long ago past. They were written 2 years ago. They were not written by some angry black you ignorantly and wrongfully assume has a problem with white people. This was not written by a black person some retard thinks will lose relevance if true racial reconciliation happens, it was written by:

View attachment 329525
This guy. Richard Rothstein. You want me to be satisfied with an undone job. Until white racism is gone talking about how there has been all this great improvement is BS. And I guarantee that if you went into a majority black forum trying to lecture them about how much better things are today and how you don't like the past being hammered, you would delete yourself from membership after they got done with you.

When a man like the great John Lewis who got his skull busted fighting for my freedom, says we have come a long way but we still have a long way to go, you nor anyone here thinking like you can tell me shit.

It is people like YOU who are the problem, you have no idea what goes on in my life and how I treat people. You make assumptions of who I am because I am white, assumptions tends to stray people away from reality.

You have already called me a racist for openly refusing to pay reparations, that my family back to the 1600's when they arrived, never been a slavery supporter. That is why I don't like you because you are trying hard to impute your white hate onto me.

I never said there were no problems, I said the systemic problems have largely gone away. You are trying to find the residue of what it once was, segregation was destroyed by whites.

Whites destroyed the following instittions, that directly effect America:

The Slave trade outlawed in 1808
Slavery outlawed by Amendment in 1868
Full Citizenship and voting granted by 1870
Segregation struck down in 1954
Voting Rights reaffirmed in 1964

Today black Americans now has the full power of the law available.

Most of the unhappy blacks seems to congregate in leftist dominated cities, gee I wonder why?

No, I am only a problem to those like you. The white racist. If you can tell me about my life, I can do the same for yours.

The systemic problems still exist. The supreme court said that in 2017. I don't have to try finding anything, it exists right now. You were shown this and you still try arguing. I live in a republican state and a conservative town. You are here telling me that blacks have the full power of the law when its known that the criminal justice system is racially biased. I have made my conclusions on what you have said. Furthermore you have been paying reparations for years for things you did not do to Native Americans. You paid reparations to German jews for the holacaust that you had nothing to do with. So you see, that argument is based on ignorance or racism.

I showed you a study dome in 2018 and despite that you hang on to a lie about how I am bringing up the past and post dates of things.

The Slave trade outlawed in 1808

But slavery comtinued until 1865 and blacks were vred like cattle.

Slavery outlawed by Amendment in 1868

But convict leasing and debt slavery took its place.

Full Citizenship and voting granted by 1870

The civil rights cases nullified the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments and created states rights.

Segregation struck down in 1954

Only De JURE SEGREGSATION was made illegal and that didnot end until the 1980s when Birmingham finally decided to integrate their foite department

De jure segregation 1: racial, ethnic, or other segregation resulting from racially-motivated public policy.

De facto segregation 1: racial, ethnic, or other segregation resulting from societal differences between groups, as socioeconomic or political disparity, without institutionalized legislation intended to segregate.

De facto segregatuion continues rifght now.

Voting Rights reaffirmed in 1964

This goes to show you how voting rights that were supposedly granted 95 years earlier were not, in addition, voter suppression exists today and has been found by courts to be racially motivated.

Lets continue here with this:

In 1863, the President of the United States signed the Emancipation Proclamation freeing the slaves only in states held by the confederacy. On January 31, 1865, the 13th Amendment was proposed which ended slavery officially in the United States, yet it took until March 16, 1995 for the last state to ratify this amendment. On June 13, 1866, the 14th Amendment was proposed whereby American citizenship was supposed to be granted to every citizen regardless of race or former condition of servitude. Yet it took until March 18, 1976, for the last state to ratify this amendment. On February 26, 1869, the first right to vote was granted to black men only but it took until 1997 for the last state to ratify. I present these 3 amendments because of what they were supposed to end. That would be the end of white racism by practice, law and policy. But that did not happen. Each and every time a non white group has been allowed more and more of what whites have gotten, there has been a white backlash.

 

[flacaltenn]

De jure segregation 1: racial, ethnic, or other segregation resulting from racially-motivated public policy.

De facto segregation 1: racial, ethnic, or other segregation resulting from societal differences between groups, as socioeconomic or political disparity, without institutionalized legislation intended to segregate.

Says right there what I've been telling you.. "societal difference" socioeconomic or political"
without ACTUAL racial barriers.. And I'd add education, access to justice into "De facto" segregation..

Except those things are NOT segregation.. They DO affect blacks more than whites as a PERCENTAGE. But in total number of poor and/or poorly educated -- whites are also "de facto segregated" in HIGHER ABSOLUTE numbers for "societal differences, socioeconomic, political" or education and justice wise as a result of being poor or living in bad places..

 

[IM2]

African Americans today are much better educated than they were in 1968 but still lag behind whites in overall educational attainment. More than 90 percent of younger African Americans (ages 25 to 29) have graduated from high school, compared with just over half in 1968—which means they’ve nearly closed the gap with white high school graduation rates. They are also more than twice as likely to have a college degree as in 1968 but are still half as likely as young whites to have a college degree.

Fractured statistic there. The problem with black HS graduation is NOT "a national" problem.. It affects largely the crime/poverty ridden big cities where there IS NO HOPE... Also -- the ones that are products of failing schools that issue diplomas for virtually no academic achievement ROBBED THEM of that chance to go to higher education before they ever ENTERED HS... Not ready for HS when they get there. Certainly not going to college out of HS...

But I'm not even SURE where they GOT these numbers.. Does NOT agree nationally with Dept of Education..

COE - Public High School Graduation Rates

Public High School Graduation Rates
(Last Updated: May 2019)
In school year 2016–17, the adjusted cohort graduation rate (ACGR) for public high school students was 85 percent, the highest it has been since the rate was first measured in 2010–11. Asian/Pacific Islander students had the highest ACGR (91 percent), followed by White (89 percent), Hispanic (80 percent), Black (78 percent), and American Indian/Alaska Native (72 percent) students.

*****************************************************

Here's another source from HHS.. Notice the grad rate in the 70s and 80s -- that's the WORKING poor of Today...

Lots of discrepancies here because some count GEDs, late or delayed graduations, etc..

THe BIG CITIES are still deplorable for black HS grad rates.. EVEN ONE with a less than 75% grad rate would be a crime.. But there are HUNDREDS of failing schools in those cities.. And parents WANT OUT... The ones that care.. Because IF they graduate, the curriculum has been dumbed down so far that they COULD get a diploma and know approximately nothing....

These are the sources used in that study..

1. Report of the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders: Summary of Report (U.S. Government Printing Office), downloadable at www.hsdl.org.

2. Data for high school and college graduate rates among adults ages 25–29 are from the National Center for Education Statistics, “Table 104.20. Percentage of Persons 25 to 29 Years Old with Selected Levels of Educational Attainment, by Race/Ethnicity and Sex: Selected Years, 1920 through 2017,” 2017 Tables and Figures, accessed February 4, 2018, at nces.ed.gov/programs/digest. The most recent year is 2016. The 1968 figure is estimated as 0.2 times the figure for 1960 and 0.8 times the figure for 1970.

3. For 1968, unemployment data are from the Council of Economic Advisers, “Table B-43. Civilian Unemployment Rate by Demographic Characteristic, 1968–2009,” in Economic Report of the President 2010 (U.S. Government Printing Office), accessed February 4, 2018, at www.gpo.gov/fdsys. For 2018 (2017 data), we use Bureau of Labor Statistics data, data tools, www.bls.gov/data/#unemployment, series ID LNU04000003 and LNU04000006, accessed February 4, 2018.

4. Median hourly wage data are from EPI analysis of March Current Population Survey data for calendar years 1968 and 2016. Data for 1968 are converted to 2016 dollars using the CPI-U-RS chained to the CPI-U-X1.

5. Median household income data are from the U.S. Census Bureau, “Table H-5. Race and Hispanic Origin of Householder—Households by Median and Mean Income: 1967 to 2016,” Historical Income Tables, accessed February 4, 2018, at www.census.gov. The most recent year is 2016. Data for 1968 are converted to 2016 dollars using the CPI-U-RS chained to the CPI-U-X1.

6. Poverty rate data are from the U.S. Census Bureau, “Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic Origin: 1959 to 2016,” Historical Poverty Tables, accessed February 4, 2018, at www.census.gov.

7. As noted in the appendix, data for 1968 are not always available. In this case, we use data for the closest available year, 1963.

8. Median household wealth data are from an Urban Institute analysis of Survey of Consumer Finances data, presented in “Chart 3: Average Family Wealth by Race/Ethnicity, 1963–2016,” in Nine Charts about Wealth Inequality in America, updated October 24, 2017. Data refer to 1963 and 2016. Data for 1963 are converted to 2016 dollars.

9. Homeownership rate data are from Laurie Goodman, Jun Zhu, and Rolf Pendall, “Are Gains in Black Homeownership History?” and accompanying downloadable spreadsheet, Urban Institute, February 15, 2017. The 1968 figure is estimated as 0.2 times the figure for 1960 and 0.8 times the figure for 1970. Most recent data refer to 2015.

10. Infant mortality rate data are from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “Table 11. Infant Mortality Rates, by Race: United States, Selected Years 1950–2015,” Health, United States, 2016—Individual Charts and Tables, accessed February 4, 2018, at www.cdc.gov/nchs/hus. The 1968 figure is estimated as 0.2 times the figure for 1960 and 0.8 times the figure for 1970. Most recent data refer to 2015. The 1968 data are based on the race of the child; the 2015 data are based on the race of the mother.

11. Life expectancy data are from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “Table 15. Life Expectancy at Birth, at Age 65, and at Age 75, by Sex, Race, and Hispanic Origin: United States, Selected Years 1900–2015,” Health, United States, 2016—Individual Charts and Tables, accessed February 4, 2018, at www.cdc.gov/nchs/hus. The 1968 figure is estimated as 0.2 times the figure for 1960 and 0.8 times the figure for 1970. Most recent data refer to 2015.

12. Incarcerated population data are from the authors’ calculations based on unpublished tabulations by Kris Warner of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, using Bureau of Justice Statistics and U.S. Census Bureau data.

So if you disagree take that up with Richard Rothstein. Let's take a look at this.

"Attempting to correct racial disparities requires a complete and open-minded exploration of the causes for those disparities.. Blaming racism before you DO THAT is too convenient and simplistic. MANY of those causes are SYSTEMIC -- and only affect the black community in an unequal manner BECAUSE of education and economic gaps.. The Big Three being education, economic income and access to EQUAL and ACCOMMODATING justice that takes into account the special needs of folks living on the edge of economic ruin."

You really think you're making sense here. Racial disparities have been caused by racism. That's the accurate assessment. To conclude it's something else is the simplistic and convenient thing. The education gap, doesn't really exist but the gap on school funding due to racist based property assessment values is a problem. Furthermore the economic gap was and still is created by racism. An open mind means you can accept that racism is a factor and in fact THE factor. I don't know what you think racism is, but you really don't have a clue if you think that people are just mindlessly blaming racism for things.

 

[Rambunctious]

Did IM2 say anything like the above? He quoted many academic studies, and most of them were well worth reading. When he defends Obama — a genuinely well educated man; when he uses W.E.B. Dubois as his avatar — a man who could outthink any one of us in several languages, he doesn’t show disrespect for academic achievement. Yet he gets insulted by many here just for supporting his party and the party of Obama and most African-Americans!

Attempting to correct racial disparities requires a complete and open-minded exploration of the causes for those disparities.. Blaming racism before you DO THAT is too convenient and simplistic. MANY of those causes are SYSTEMIC -- and only affect the black community in an unequal manner BECAUSE of education and economic gaps.. The Big Three being education, economic income and access to EQUAL and ACCOMMODATING justice that takes into account the special needs of folks living on the edge of economic ruin.

NOWHERE did I mention Obama.. NOWHERE did I demean Dubois or ANY OTHER black high academic achiever.. In FACT -- I've REPEATEDLY suggested that SUCCESSFUL and high achieving blacks BE used as role models.. Don't give a damn about their politics.. IM2 in the past has posted mind numbing crap about "math and science" as being "racist".. He's DISSED high acheiving blacks that dont fit his political views REPEATEDLY.. Its VERY political how he excommunicates high achieving blacks that DO NOT FIT HIS POLITICS... I don't play that game, because I'm a FIXER of things. Not a demagogue.

Fair enough. I didn’t mean you when I said people insult IM2 — and others — just for supporting “the party of Obama and most African Americans.” I am happy if you respect the intelligence and academic achievement of men like W.E.B. DuBois, who himself lived a long life in which he was at different times a Lincoln-admiring Republican, a leader of the NAACP, a Socialist and a Pan-Africanist. I haven’t been here long, haven’t seen what you say about IM2, or know you or many people here well. If I strongly disagree with IM2 about such matters in the future, I hope I will find a way to express myself in a constructive way. That is sometimes all we can do when we disagree ... especially about politics.

Can't we all just "get along" ??? Actually not really a rhetorical question.. Because after going 20 or 30 pages with some of the "black educators" here -- the most IMPORTANT thing you'll learn TP, is that they are afeared of stuff like "racial reconcilation".. Aint shopping for any improved "social interactions that might result from honest discussion.. Because IF that happened, THEY would become irrelevant.. In a Kumbaya world -- some of resident "grievance scholars" would be VERY unhappy that the PAST and history is IN the past..

Nobody here is scared of racial reconciliation but you. And you prove that with what you just told Paine. You believe that crazy shit. You are the one that cannot handle honest discussion. An honest discussion means you are able to accept that past racism has caused damage that continues now as well ads the fact that continuing racism by whites exacerbates the already unfixed damage. Instead you offer solutions like blacks moving into all white rural towns.

You are pissed...you have no path within you for forgiveness....and you weren't even alive back then.....

 

[IM2]

De jure segregation 1: racial, ethnic, or other segregation resulting from racially-motivated public policy.

De facto segregation 1: racial, ethnic, or other segregation resulting from societal differences between groups, as socioeconomic or political disparity, without institutionalized legislation intended to segregate.

Says right there what I've been telling you.. "societal difference" socioeconomic or political"
without ACTUAL racial barriers.. And I'd add education, access to justice into "De facto" segregation..

Except those things are NOT segregation.. They DO affect blacks more than whites as a PERCENTAGE. But in total number of poor and/or poorly educated -- whites are also "de facto segregated" in HIGHER ABSOLUTE numbers for "societal differences, socioeconomic, political" or education and justice wise as a result of being poor or living in bad places..

Read the first words again flacaltenn.

De facto segregation 1: racial, ethnic, or other segregation

I'm not debating you on this matter. I've lived 59 years black and I am telling you that the root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. Now you can stop trying to argue about it and go to work in the white community to end it. On my side we are and have been working to increase all the things that we denied us and have done what we can do to plug up the damages caused by racist public policy to include the wholesale damage caused by the government putting crack in our community. And we have done so without the funding needed to completely erase the damage.

1 out of every 10 whites are affected by what you are talking about and 1 out of every 4 blacks. So let's not try creating some kind of equal oppression argument. The government created the problems in poor black communities flacaltenn. It's documented.

 

[IM2]

Did IM2 say anything like the above? He quoted many academic studies, and most of them were well worth reading. When he defends Obama — a genuinely well educated man; when he uses W.E.B. Dubois as his avatar — a man who could outthink any one of us in several languages, he doesn’t show disrespect for academic achievement. Yet he gets insulted by many here just for supporting his party and the party of Obama and most African-Americans!

Attempting to correct racial disparities requires a complete and open-minded exploration of the causes for those disparities.. Blaming racism before you DO THAT is too convenient and simplistic. MANY of those causes are SYSTEMIC -- and only affect the black community in an unequal manner BECAUSE of education and economic gaps.. The Big Three being education, economic income and access to EQUAL and ACCOMMODATING justice that takes into account the special needs of folks living on the edge of economic ruin.

NOWHERE did I mention Obama.. NOWHERE did I demean Dubois or ANY OTHER black high academic achiever.. In FACT -- I've REPEATEDLY suggested that SUCCESSFUL and high achieving blacks BE used as role models.. Don't give a damn about their politics.. IM2 in the past has posted mind numbing crap about "math and science" as being "racist".. He's DISSED high acheiving blacks that dont fit his political views REPEATEDLY.. Its VERY political how he excommunicates high achieving blacks that DO NOT FIT HIS POLITICS... I don't play that game, because I'm a FIXER of things. Not a demagogue.

Fair enough. I didn’t mean you when I said people insult IM2 — and others — just for supporting “the party of Obama and most African Americans.” I am happy if you respect the intelligence and academic achievement of men like W.E.B. DuBois, who himself lived a long life in which he was at different times a Lincoln-admiring Republican, a leader of the NAACP, a Socialist and a Pan-Africanist. I haven’t been here long, haven’t seen what you say about IM2, or know you or many people here well. If I strongly disagree with IM2 about such matters in the future, I hope I will find a way to express myself in a constructive way. That is sometimes all we can do when we disagree ... especially about politics.

Can't we all just "get along" ??? Actually not really a rhetorical question.. Because after going 20 or 30 pages with some of the "black educators" here -- the most IMPORTANT thing you'll learn TP, is that they are afeared of stuff like "racial reconcilation".. Aint shopping for any improved "social interactions that might result from honest discussion.. Because IF that happened, THEY would become irrelevant.. In a Kumbaya world -- some of resident "grievance scholars" would be VERY unhappy that the PAST and history is IN the past..

Nobody here is scared of racial reconciliation but you. And you prove that with what you just told Paine. You believe that crazy shit. You are the one that cannot handle honest discussion. An honest discussion means you are able to accept that past racism has caused damage that continues now as well ads the fact that continuing racism by whites exacerbates the already unfixed damage. Instead you offer solutions like blacks moving into all white rural towns.

You are pissed...you have no path within you for forgiveness....and you weren't even alive back then.....

I am alive now and have seen 59 years of continuing white racism.