So What Was The Point of Obamacare Again?

[Contumacious]

So What Was The Point of Obamacare Again?

Politicians suffer from Munchausen by proxy syndrome.


They fuck up healthcare in the US then adopt Obama Hellcare to create the illusion that they are concerned about health care and its costs.

.

 

[Freewill]

2014 allowed for late enrollees.

This is the lowest monthly uninsured rate recorded since Gallup and Healthways began tracking it in January 2008, besting the previous low of 13.9% in September of that year. Also ignored is the employer mandate which begins in 2015.

The implication that reducing the number of insured Americans was the only reason for Obamacare is preposterous. Some people seem to need a little review here. Obamacare eliminated preexisting condition requirements for insurance, removed yearly and lifetime caps on benefits, expanded Medicaid, partially subsided health insurance for low income earners, required insurance to offer dependent coverage to age 26, introduced pay for performance strategies to improve care and reduce costs, required 80% of premiums be paid back in benefits, and required all plans to offer the following essential benefits.

Emergency Services
Inpatient care
Maternity and newborn care
Mental health services and addiction treatment
Prescription drugs
Rehabilitative services and devices
Laboratory services
Preventive and wellness services, & chronic disease treatment
Pediatric services including vision and dental to children

Although the number of insured has fallen and will continue to do so, insurance companies are required to offer many additional benefits, previously only available in the best plans.

And your ignorance of the status quo BEFORE Obamacare is really abysmal!
If there were so many other positive values WHY jack up the number with phony 46 million uninsured?
Why not tell the truth that 10 million were not legal... 14 million were already BEFORE ACA eligible for Medicaid/SCHIP and more importantly why
force 18 million people who didn't need insurance under 34, spent less on health services then the premiums and could afford their employers' plan?
Why phony the 4 million that needed it?
Also Obama said to gin up support that ""Up to half of all Americans have a pre-existing condition," he told the crowd in Maryland."
THAT is a bald face lie! Half of all Americans would be 155 million! 85% of all americans that were eligible that wanted insurance were covered so
85% of 310 million is 263 million! So how could half of all Americans have a pre-existing condition that kept them from insurance?
THAT was again a bald face LIE that if ACA was so good why was it needed to lie about that fact?
AND this totally totally stupid lie was shown by the insurance studies that stated this was the number of people with "pre-existing conditions"
Less then 1.5 million!
Insurance industry studies show that one in eight applicants for private health insurance have preexisting conditions that affect their eligibility or premiums.
This gives a total of 1.5 million Americans who were denied health insurance or paid higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions.
Obama s Pre-existing Conditions Whopper - Forbes

NOTE 1.5 million NOT 155 million!

Finally you people are so ignorant about how insurance works especially when it comes to RESERVES.
Obviously you don't think about the future "claims" that people are going to have which is WHY states' insurance regulators REQUIRE reserves!
Where do reserves come from DUMMY???
Profits!
The average insurance company paid out in 2012 80% ALREADY of the premiums in claims! 80%
That leaves for you math shrift people 20%!
Out of the 20% you have to pay office expenses salaries, computers, rent, etc.... that eats up about 16% LEAVING 4% for profits.
YOU idiots... If you have to pay out 80% then that means you can't cover people unless you have your operating expenses and a profit for RESERVES!
If you don't have RESERVES for future claims the insurance regulators SHUT YOU DOWN!!

Do you understand? The whole premise was to as Obama has said "he prefers a single payer system"....
YOU f...king dummies that think that way also..... WHAT happens to the 1,300 companies that have been paying $100 billion a year in taxes?
WHERE will that tax money come from? Dummies... where will the 400,000 people that will be put out work go?
SEE you really really dumb people about health and health insurance were so grossly mislead!
Why aren't you after the lawyers that according to doctors cause $850 billion a year in what is called defensive medicine, duplicate tests, etc. ALL because
doctors are fearful of being sued!
But you ignore that! YOU ignore the biggest cost driver and stupidly depend on ignorant people leading other ignorant people and passed ACA!
So absolutely UNNECESSARY!

If I were to be hired, before ACA, and the company provided healthcare I do not remember any questions being ask about preexisting conditions. Could be that I don't have any so they didn't ask or refuse coverage.

BECAUSE of this reason:
You were part of a group insurance plan and the risks are spread out over the group.
Private individual insurance didn't have a "group" to spread the risk!
So for example from Obamacare web site:ObamaCare and Smokers
• ObamaCare says smokers can be charged up to 50% more for their premiums. This is due to a “tobacco surcharge”.
• The tobacco premium surcharge is calculated after cost assistance.
• The ObamaCare smokers glitch means the surcharge won’t go into affect until 2015.
• Statistically, lower-income Americans are the most likely group to smoke.

I agree that is why so for the vast majority of people the preexisting condition part really didn't matter. Still a good thing in my opinion. But, maybe we should be considering everyone that isn't covered under a group plan a group and lower their rates.

 

[healthmyths]

2014 allowed for late enrollees.

This is the lowest monthly uninsured rate recorded since Gallup and Healthways began tracking it in January 2008, besting the previous low of 13.9% in September of that year. Also ignored is the employer mandate which begins in 2015.

The implication that reducing the number of insured Americans was the only reason for Obamacare is preposterous. Some people seem to need a little review here. Obamacare eliminated preexisting condition requirements for insurance, removed yearly and lifetime caps on benefits, expanded Medicaid, partially subsided health insurance for low income earners, required insurance to offer dependent coverage to age 26, introduced pay for performance strategies to improve care and reduce costs, required 80% of premiums be paid back in benefits, and required all plans to offer the following essential benefits.

Emergency Services
Inpatient care
Maternity and newborn care
Mental health services and addiction treatment
Prescription drugs
Rehabilitative services and devices
Laboratory services
Preventive and wellness services, & chronic disease treatment
Pediatric services including vision and dental to children

Although the number of insured has fallen and will continue to do so, insurance companies are required to offer many additional benefits, previously only available in the best plans.

And your ignorance of the status quo BEFORE Obamacare is really abysmal!
If there were so many other positive values WHY jack up the number with phony 46 million uninsured?
Why not tell the truth that 10 million were not legal... 14 million were already BEFORE ACA eligible for Medicaid/SCHIP and more importantly why
force 18 million people who didn't need insurance under 34, spent less on health services then the premiums and could afford their employers' plan?
Why phony the 4 million that needed it?
Also Obama said to gin up support that ""Up to half of all Americans have a pre-existing condition," he told the crowd in Maryland."
THAT is a bald face lie! Half of all Americans would be 155 million! 85% of all americans that were eligible that wanted insurance were covered so
85% of 310 million is 263 million! So how could half of all Americans have a pre-existing condition that kept them from insurance?
THAT was again a bald face LIE that if ACA was so good why was it needed to lie about that fact?
AND this totally totally stupid lie was shown by the insurance studies that stated this was the number of people with "pre-existing conditions"
Less then 1.5 million!
Insurance industry studies show that one in eight applicants for private health insurance have preexisting conditions that affect their eligibility or premiums.
This gives a total of 1.5 million Americans who were denied health insurance or paid higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions.
Obama s Pre-existing Conditions Whopper - Forbes

NOTE 1.5 million NOT 155 million!

Finally you people are so ignorant about how insurance works especially when it comes to RESERVES.
Obviously you don't think about the future "claims" that people are going to have which is WHY states' insurance regulators REQUIRE reserves!
Where do reserves come from DUMMY???
Profits!
The average insurance company paid out in 2012 80% ALREADY of the premiums in claims! 80%
That leaves for you math shrift people 20%!
Out of the 20% you have to pay office expenses salaries, computers, rent, etc.... that eats up about 16% LEAVING 4% for profits.
YOU idiots... If you have to pay out 80% then that means you can't cover people unless you have your operating expenses and a profit for RESERVES!
If you don't have RESERVES for future claims the insurance regulators SHUT YOU DOWN!!

Do you understand? The whole premise was to as Obama has said "he prefers a single payer system"....
YOU f...king dummies that think that way also..... WHAT happens to the 1,300 companies that have been paying $100 billion a year in taxes?
WHERE will that tax money come from? Dummies... where will the 400,000 people that will be put out work go?
SEE you really really dumb people about health and health insurance were so grossly mislead!
Why aren't you after the lawyers that according to doctors cause $850 billion a year in what is called defensive medicine, duplicate tests, etc. ALL because
doctors are fearful of being sued!
But you ignore that! YOU ignore the biggest cost driver and stupidly depend on ignorant people leading other ignorant people and passed ACA!
So absolutely UNNECESSARY!

1 Up to half could be 1 person
2 Pre-existing conditions are not always caught by applications/health screenings
3 There is no reason to think that people with existing coverage wouldn't have a higher rate then new applicants for private insurance.
4 RESERVES? how many billions per year would your 4% figure allow?
5 "Where will the tax money come from?" is not a serious question.
6 1300 companies can sell other types of insurance. Would you be sad if everyone stopped committing crimes and all the prison guards lost their jobs?

Your comments debunked point by point!!
1.)
ARE YOU REALLY that poor of a reader?? Obama SAID..."Up to half of all Americans have a pre-existing condition," he told the crowd in Maryland
For such simpleminded person HE SAID HALF of ALL AMERICANS... (310 million Americans... 1/2 of 310 million is 155 million!)
DO YOU understand the ignorance of that comment? If 85% of all Americans have some form of coverage that is 263 million! So how in the world can
there be 155 million with "pre-existing conditions" that DON"T have insurance which is the purpose of ACA according to Obama!

2. There never were 155 million! There were less then 1.5 million some of which pay a higher premium BUT no where near 155 million Obama alluded to!

3. This point makes absolutely NO SENSE!!
4. RESERVES?
A) you dummy 4% is before paying income taxes and then paying out dividends.
B) RESERVES under STATE insurance regulations are a % of projected claims and varies state by state... but this issue there must be profits to have a reserve!
5.) The loss of $100 billion in tax revenue a year is not a serious question maybe to you as you pay no taxes but tell that to the property owners in the cities
where these 1,300 insurance companies pay rent/or property taxes that will be abandoned such as Detroit! Want to see the effect of no businesses? Visit Detroit!
Also how f...king stupid! Each of these for profit companies pay taxes which in turn SUBSIDIZE those NON-profits...with those taxes!
Take away $100 billion a year in Federal/state/local/property taxes and see what will happen!
6.) You are right. They already do sell other insurance and guess what dummy! To make up the losses of their health insurance they raise their rates! Good business
sense and the next thing you will have fewer and fewer companies to choose from ...i.e. monopolies. Finally complete state run businesses!
Of course idiots like you womb to tombers don't care cause you are really lazy sons of bi...!

You spent the lion's share of your original post talking about how Obama lied about the number of pre-existing conditions in our country and then posted a bunch of stats to support your position but the only problem is that you either didn't read or understand what you wrote.

Your post:
Obama SAID..."Up to half of all Americans have a pre-existing condition,"

Notice the key words "Up to" . I feel bad because you are probably one of those elderly widow's that fall prey to every scam that hits her mail box (e.g. "Act now and win up to $1,000,000 dollars ..... ). I recommend getting on a no call list and having your mail forwarded to an adult child.

As to your 'points' 4,5, and 6; Maybe you weren't aware of it but the insurance industry was intimately involved in the crafting of this law so I am pretty sure the 80%/20% rule wasn't just some arbitrary number they pulled out of a hat that will crash the entire insurance industry. In one sentence you seem concerned with them having the proper reserves (read up on actuarial science) and in the next you are worried about losing 100 billion dollars (if correct) in tax revenue. Due you have any idea how much money that a corporation would have to make in profit to have that kind of tax bill? Wouldn't that be nice if it was actually spent that on health care... just a thought. Private health insurance is safer than ever because it has a guaranteed customer base built into the law along with other safeguards ( see: cronie capitalism). The truth is that we would be better off without them because they are just an unnecessary overhead expense and impediment between you and your doctor.

Thank you for validating that Obama was scamming the public when he said "up to half of all Americans"! YOU proved my point!
If he couldn't convince people with FACTS he scammed!
The facts...

Insurance industry studies show that one in eight applicants for private health insurance have preexisting conditions that affect their eligibility or premiums.
This gives a total of 1.5 million Americans who were denied health insurance or paid higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions.
Obama s Pre-existing Conditions Whopper - Forbes

Operative statement "private health insurance"... of which there are less then 1.5 million that either paid higher (NOT denied coverage!!) or denied!
Not 155 million as Obama's statement grossly scams the American public to believe hence passing ACA via another Gigantic HOAX

 

[asterism]

I was asking about part D of medicare for my father. Seems like he never signed up for part D. So I called his insurance company and asked about a perscription plan. I was told that if he has not signed up there is a penalty for doing so. A person with 5 years is paying a penalty of 20 dollars per month. He is 17 years past 65 I can't imagine the penalty.

So I asked what was the point of the penalty, silence. I finally said I think it is to help them, the insurance company, not my dad.

You have a penalty for delaying the signup for Medicare Part D drug coverage because the need for drugs rises sharply as seniors age yet the yearly premium is not based on age, so the law requires a penalty if you start when your're older. It's the same with part B coverage if you delay it past age 65.

If I had to pay a penalty, I would analysis my drug cost and consider buying from Canadian pharmacies. There are many reliable ones which can save you 50% to 75% off the cost of brand name drugs.

I would assume, as someone pointed out, the penalty for him would be the max. At 88 he still doesn't take that many drugs and the pharmacy gives his a discount. So it would not pay him to pay the penalty might as well keep on keeping on. EXCEPT, he is having an operation and the drug they want him to take is pretty damn expensive. But in the long run it will be less then paying for a drug plan.

I have Medicare Drug coverage as do several people in my family. I can say without a doubt that for some people the coverage is worthless, at least until the time comes that you have a serious illness.

Case in point - my brother who had Medicare drug coverage took 2 generics a month which he could buy without insurance for $22. His drug coverage premium was about $35 a month and his copay was $10 a month. So the insurance looked like a real looser until he got a cancer diagnosis followed by several other problems. Suddenly the cost of drugs went from $22/mo. to over $6,000 a month, about $35,000 in the first year of his illness. His cost using the Medicare drug coverage including premium was just over $7,500 for the year. Had he not had Medicare drug coverage, he could have bought the drugs through Canada and the cost would have been about $17,000.

I've had Medicare drug coverage for some years and could have save money by not carrying it, however I could be on drugs costing $3,000/mo next week. Like most insurance, it's a crap shoot. You pay or don't pay your money and take your chances.

Cancer drugs are not covered by Part D, they are covered by Part B so the drug plan is irrelevant in his case.

So what is your opinion? He is 88, his drug cost right now might be 20 per month. If I read correctly the penalty for him would be 32/month. He can get drugs through the VA, he does but not all, for some reason I don't understand.

He can enroll in Part D if and when he needs it. His penalty will be higher, but I see no need for him to pay more now so that me might pay less later.

 

[Flopper]

You have a penalty for delaying the signup for Medicare Part D drug coverage because the need for drugs rises sharply as seniors age yet the yearly premium is not based on age, so the law requires a penalty if you start when your're older. It's the same with part B coverage if you delay it past age 65.

If I had to pay a penalty, I would analysis my drug cost and consider buying from Canadian pharmacies. There are many reliable ones which can save you 50% to 75% off the cost of brand name drugs.

I would assume, as someone pointed out, the penalty for him would be the max. At 88 he still doesn't take that many drugs and the pharmacy gives his a discount. So it would not pay him to pay the penalty might as well keep on keeping on. EXCEPT, he is having an operation and the drug they want him to take is pretty damn expensive. But in the long run it will be less then paying for a drug plan.

I have Medicare Drug coverage as do several people in my family. I can say without a doubt that for some people the coverage is worthless, at least until the time comes that you have a serious illness.

Case in point - my brother who had Medicare drug coverage took 2 generics a month which he could buy without insurance for $22. His drug coverage premium was about $35 a month and his copay was $10 a month. So the insurance looked like a real looser until he got a cancer diagnosis followed by several other problems. Suddenly the cost of drugs went from $22/mo. to over $6,000 a month, about $35,000 in the first year of his illness. His cost using the Medicare drug coverage including premium was just over $7,500 for the year. Had he not had Medicare drug coverage, he could have bought the drugs through Canada and the cost would have been about $17,000.

I've had Medicare drug coverage for some years and could have save money by not carrying it, however I could be on drugs costing $3,000/mo next week. Like most insurance, it's a crap shoot. You pay or don't pay your money and take your chances.

Cancer drugs are not covered by Part D, they are covered by Part B so the drug plan is irrelevant in his case.

So what is your opinion? He is 88, his drug cost right now might be 20 per month. If I read correctly the penalty for him would be 32/month. He can get drugs through the VA, he does but not all, for some reason I don't understand.

He can enroll in Part D if and when he needs it. His penalty will be higher, but I see no need for him to pay more now so that me might pay less later.

At 88, later may never come. Whether it's best to pay the penalty for part d really depends on your current cost of drugs. If your drug cost are say $10,000 a year, it certainly be worth the cost because you would be in the catastrophic phase which pays 95% of the cost after the first 4 or 5 thousand. If you're in the gap, there no reason to pay the penalties and cost at that time. If you're spending a couple of thousand a year, then maybe.

For anyone with high maintenance drug costs, they should check out the prices buying through Canada. You can buy generic versions of brand name drugs at a small fraction of what you pay in the US. Even the brand name drugs can be bought at significant discounts.

 

[Roadrunner]

So What Was The Point of Obamacare Again?

Politicians suffer from Munchausen by proxy syndrome.


They fuck up healthcare in the US then adopt Obama Hellcare to create the illusion that they are concerned about health care and its costs.

.

If they cared about healthCARE, they would build hospitals and preventive clinics.

PP/ACA is about power, and punitive wealth distribution from the middle class to the unproductive class.

Gruber pretty well laid it out.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The point of ObamaCare was to benefit Big Government and its Cronies...in this particular case, Big Insurance and Big Pharma.

even if you have to lie to get it passed

 

[AntiParty]

Once again, the results are the exact opposite of the stated liberal intent.

From the WSJ:

Early signals suggest the majority of the 2.2 million people who sought to enroll in private insurance through new marketplaces through Dec. 28 were previously covered elsewhere, raising questions about how swiftly this part of the health overhaul will be able to make a significant dent in the number of uninsured.

Insurers, brokers and consultants estimate at least two-thirds of those consumers previously bought their own coverage or were enrolled in employer-backed plans.

So What Was The Point of Obamacare Again National Review Online

The point of "Obamacare" as you put it was to jump past a debate on how Hopsitals can run with less $$$ Price gouging is a HUGE issue with Doctors and with Hospitals. And Price Gouging like Monopolies use to be against the law.

So since no one attacked the price gouging and Obama was absolutely purchased by a specific Healthcare Organization, a President tried to protect a nation via Health. You know the Constitution's only authority to a President is to protect the people, correct?........Or maybe you thought that only meant warfare and eating Monsanto (self harm).

The Single Payer System was the original plan of the Left. Everyone pitches in, not just some. Americans might be faced with decisions like "The F-22, or Health for the People"

I personally didn't like the concept of Government healthcare because I wondered what it would be like if tyrants like Ted Cruz shut down the Government in hopes to sell Tea. "Buy Tea today and we will support you!"

 

[Skylar]

Once again, the results are the exact opposite of the stated liberal intent.

From the WSJ:

Early signals suggest the majority of the 2.2 million people who sought to enroll in private insurance through new marketplaces through Dec. 28 were previously covered elsewhere, raising questions about how swiftly this part of the health overhaul will be able to make a significant dent in the number of uninsured.

Insurers, brokers and consultants estimate at least two-thirds of those consumers previously bought their own coverage or were enrolled in employer-backed plans.

So What Was The Point of Obamacare Again National Review Online

Uninsured Rate Drops To Lowest Level Since The '90s

The latest numbers come from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which polled more than 27,000 people during the first three months of the year. Forty-one million U.S. residents, or 13.1 percent, were uninsured during the quarter when benefits started to kick in for people who signed up for coverage into private insurance or Medicaid via the Obamacare exchanges or elsewhere.

That's the lowest number and percentage of uninsured people since the CDC started using this version of its survey in 1997. It's also down 3.8 million people and 1.3 percentage points from the end of 2013.

Uninsured Rate Drops To Lowest Level Since The 90s

 

[boedicca]

The point of ObamaCare was to benefit Big Government and its Cronies...in this particular case, Big Insurance and Big Pharma.

even if you have to lie to get it passed

Well, you have to lie to get things done in America because the knuckle dragging Molocks are too stupid to understand how the Altruistic Progs are doing things to help them.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

To collapse the American health insurance industry and usher in single-payer.

 

[healthmyths]

To collapse the American health insurance industry and usher in single-payer.

Obama said he wants to put 1,300 companies that pay $100 billion a year in Federal, state, local and property taxes on their buildings, etc. and at the same
time put 400,000 people out of work!
"I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.”

Without thinking I sure the consequences naive ignorant people like Obama BLAME insurance companies for doing what they are required to do pay claims!
On average The American Medical Association reports that between 1.38% and 5.07% of claims are denied by insurers on first submission.
https://www.optum.com/content/dam/optum/resources/whitePapers/Denial_Management_White_paper.pdf

So those ignorant stupid people that think insurance companies ONLY want to reject claims are again DUMB!!
Average insurance companies pay 80% of the premiums out in claims!
Now the biggest cost driver and I've said this dozens of times is what the doctors report as their biggest cost driver..
Proof is 90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year

Health News Observer rsaquo Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

FEAR of being sued causes $850 billion a year in claims paid by insurance companies/Medicare wastefully all out of fear of lawyers suing!

 

[Foxfyre]

To collapse the American health insurance industry and usher in single-payer.

Obama said he wants to put 1,300 companies that pay $100 billion a year in Federal, state, local and property taxes on their buildings, etc. and at the same
time put 400,000 people out of work!
"I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.”

Without thinking I sure the consequences naive ignorant people like Obama BLAME insurance companies for doing what they are required to do pay claims!
On average The American Medical Association reports that between 1.38% and 5.07% of claims are denied by insurers on first submission.
https://www.optum.com/content/dam/optum/resources/whitePapers/Denial_Management_White_paper.pdf
View attachment 34029
So those ignorant stupid people that think insurance companies ONLY want to reject claims are again DUMB!!
Average insurance companies pay 80% of the premiums out in claims!
Now the biggest cost driver and I've said this dozens of times is what the doctors report as their biggest cost driver..
Proof is 90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year

Health News Observer rsaquo Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

FEAR of being sued causes $850 billion a year in claims paid by insurance companies/Medicare wastefully all out of fear of lawyers suing!

And having a good deal of experience with that, I can say with complete confidence that many MANY unnecessary tests and medical procedures are done and many MANY insurance claims are paid that are not owed, purely because of threatened litigation and the costs of defending those cases would exceed paying the claim that is not owed. And that drives up the basic cost of healthcare for all of us and has driven insurance costs into the stratosphere.

And every time somebody suggests remedying that situation, the trial lawyers, aided and abetted by elected officials who themselves are mostly trial lawyers, will point to the very few cases that go to trial. What we are supposed to believe is that litigation is a tiny part of the medical costs overall. What they don't tell you are the fortunes they are raking in from their clients by just threatening the litigation.

With the onset of Medicare and Medicaid, the deep pockets of government covering those programs has sharply escalated that trend and Obamacare will only worsen it.

 

[healthmyths]

To collapse the American health insurance industry and usher in single-payer.

Obama said he wants to put 1,300 companies that pay $100 billion a year in Federal, state, local and property taxes on their buildings, etc. and at the same
time put 400,000 people out of work!
"I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.”

Without thinking I sure the consequences naive ignorant people like Obama BLAME insurance companies for doing what they are required to do pay claims!
On average The American Medical Association reports that between 1.38% and 5.07% of claims are denied by insurers on first submission.
https://www.optum.com/content/dam/optum/resources/whitePapers/Denial_Management_White_paper.pdf
View attachment 34029
So those ignorant stupid people that think insurance companies ONLY want to reject claims are again DUMB!!
Average insurance companies pay 80% of the premiums out in claims!
Now the biggest cost driver and I've said this dozens of times is what the doctors report as their biggest cost driver..
Proof is 90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year

Health News Observer rsaquo Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

FEAR of being sued causes $850 billion a year in claims paid by insurance companies/Medicare wastefully all out of fear of lawyers suing!

And having a good deal of experience with that, I can say with complete confidence that many MANY unnecessary tests and medical procedures are done and many MANY insurance claims are paid that are not owed, purely because of threatened litigation and the costs of defending those cases would exceed paying the claim that is not owed. And that drives up the basic cost of healthcare for all of us and has driven insurance costs into the stratosphere.

And every time somebody suggests remedying that situation, the trial lawyers, aided and abetted by elected officials who themselves are mostly trial lawyers, will point to the very few cases that go to trial. What we are supposed to believe is that litigation is a tiny part of the medical costs overall. What they don't tell you are the fortunes they are raking in from their clients by just threatening the litigation.

With the onset of Medicare and Medicaid, the deep pockets of government covering those programs has sharply escalated that trend and Obamacare will only worsen it.

THANK YOU!!!!
I've been beating this drum constantly and it appears you are one of the very few that comprehend the magnitude of this gigantic cost driver.
$850 billion a year is what these 90% of physicians admit their reason is fear of lawsuits.
Further proof is this:
Up to 92% of US physicians practice defensive medicine.
76% of physicians report that defensive medicine decreases patient access to healthcare.
53% of physicians report delaying new techniques, procedures, and treatments due to fear of lawsuits.
Patients most affected by defensive medicine include those visiting emergency rooms and those requiring surgery.
Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
BUT NOTE this: "Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected
against lawsuits by the Federal Tort Claims Act.
Only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians.
89% of physicians support a patient’s right to be compensated fairly for true negligence.
SOURCE: Health News Observer rsaquo Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

And so if government doctors won't be sued because of the Federal Tort Claims Act... why not expand that act to cover the rest of the physicians?
As a result this $850 billion cost would be reduced dramatically.
Then the insurance companies will NOT have claims to pay for these defensive measures and as a result and this is what most people are
grossly uninformed so I'm making it in bold letters!!!

STATE Insurance regulators approve premium increases.
IF insurance companies having to verify their claim costs have gone down, then the states WON"T approve RATE increases but MAY require reductions!

 

[Ame®icano]

Obamacare was simply a windfall for insurance companies in the short term and a stepping stone to single payer.

It's so awful that the outcry will be great and then the idiots who gave us this disaster will tell us that single payer is the only thing that can save it.

It's a scam, a disaster, and the majority of Americans fell for it.

I think taking back the House in 2010 and the Senate in 2014 shows the majority did not fall for it.

It just takes time.

The people's House of Reps repealed it numerous times.

Senators better get on board or more get fired in 2016.

Republican takeover of the Senate is a clear mandate from the voters for President Barry to rule by executive orders. At least that how he sees it.

 

[Foxfyre]

To collapse the American health insurance industry and usher in single-payer.

Obama said he wants to put 1,300 companies that pay $100 billion a year in Federal, state, local and property taxes on their buildings, etc. and at the same
time put 400,000 people out of work!
"I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.”

Without thinking I sure the consequences naive ignorant people like Obama BLAME insurance companies for doing what they are required to do pay claims!
On average The American Medical Association reports that between 1.38% and 5.07% of claims are denied by insurers on first submission.
https://www.optum.com/content/dam/optum/resources/whitePapers/Denial_Management_White_paper.pdf
View attachment 34029
So those ignorant stupid people that think insurance companies ONLY want to reject claims are again DUMB!!
Average insurance companies pay 80% of the premiums out in claims!
Now the biggest cost driver and I've said this dozens of times is what the doctors report as their biggest cost driver..
Proof is 90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year

Health News Observer rsaquo Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

FEAR of being sued causes $850 billion a year in claims paid by insurance companies/Medicare wastefully all out of fear of lawyers suing!

And having a good deal of experience with that, I can say with complete confidence that many MANY unnecessary tests and medical procedures are done and many MANY insurance claims are paid that are not owed, purely because of threatened litigation and the costs of defending those cases would exceed paying the claim that is not owed. And that drives up the basic cost of healthcare for all of us and has driven insurance costs into the stratosphere.

And every time somebody suggests remedying that situation, the trial lawyers, aided and abetted by elected officials who themselves are mostly trial lawyers, will point to the very few cases that go to trial. What we are supposed to believe is that litigation is a tiny part of the medical costs overall. What they don't tell you are the fortunes they are raking in from their clients by just threatening the litigation.

With the onset of Medicare and Medicaid, the deep pockets of government covering those programs has sharply escalated that trend and Obamacare will only worsen it.

THANK YOU!!!!
I've been beating this drum constantly and it appears you are one of the very few that comprehend the magnitude of this gigantic cost driver.
$850 billion a year is what these 90% of physicians admit their reason is fear of lawsuits.
Further proof is this:
Up to 92% of US physicians practice defensive medicine.
76% of physicians report that defensive medicine decreases patient access to healthcare.
53% of physicians report delaying new techniques, procedures, and treatments due to fear of lawsuits.
Patients most affected by defensive medicine include those visiting emergency rooms and those requiring surgery.
Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
BUT NOTE this: "Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected
against lawsuits by the Federal Tort Claims Act.
Only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians.
89% of physicians support a patient’s right to be compensated fairly for true negligence.
SOURCE: Health News Observer rsaquo Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

And so if government doctors won't be sued because of the Federal Tort Claims Act... why not expand that act to cover the rest of the physicians?
As a result this $850 billion cost would be reduced dramatically.
Then the insurance companies will NOT have claims to pay for these defensive measures and as a result and this is what most people are
grossly uninformed so I'm making it in bold letters!!!

STATE Insurance regulators approve premium increases.
IF insurance companies having to verify their claim costs have gone down, then the states WON"T approve RATE increases but MAY require reductions!

I have worked in both the medical and insurance industries so have some first hand experience. And my hubby is a 40-year experienced all lines general insurance adjuster who has worked hands on all that time and has sufficient credentials and experience that he has been used as an expert by the legal and insurance industries. During the course of this discussion on this thread I asked him his best guess of how many insurance claims are paid for claims the insurance company does not owe just to avoid the cost of litigation. He said he is aware of no hard statistics on that, but his best guess would be at least 50%. And it is an absolute certainty that those costs for products, services, and insurance coverage are passed on to us all.

So, unless the patient gets screwed by not being able to receive compensation for real negligence and injury as a result of it, what does it profit us for the government to assume the risk instead of the insurance companies? Now the government gets to decide who the winners and losers will be? I think most of us can see a real danger there.

The best solution except in the most hardship cases--and those could be judged on a case by case basis--is that if the plaintiff loses the case, he pays the court costs and attorney fees for the defendant or his/her insurance company. That would stop almost all opportunistic litigation in its tracks.

 

[healthmyths]

To collapse the American health insurance industry and usher in single-payer.

Obama said he wants to put 1,300 companies that pay $100 billion a year in Federal, state, local and property taxes on their buildings, etc. and at the same
time put 400,000 people out of work!
"I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.”

Without thinking I sure the consequences naive ignorant people like Obama BLAME insurance companies for doing what they are required to do pay claims!
On average The American Medical Association reports that between 1.38% and 5.07% of claims are denied by insurers on first submission.
https://www.optum.com/content/dam/optum/resources/whitePapers/Denial_Management_White_paper.pdf
View attachment 34029
So those ignorant stupid people that think insurance companies ONLY want to reject claims are again DUMB!!
Average insurance companies pay 80% of the premiums out in claims!
Now the biggest cost driver and I've said this dozens of times is what the doctors report as their biggest cost driver..
Proof is 90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
Physicians estimate the cost of defensive medicine in US at $650 to $850 billion per year

Health News Observer rsaquo Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

FEAR of being sued causes $850 billion a year in claims paid by insurance companies/Medicare wastefully all out of fear of lawyers suing!

And having a good deal of experience with that, I can say with complete confidence that many MANY unnecessary tests and medical procedures are done and many MANY insurance claims are paid that are not owed, purely because of threatened litigation and the costs of defending those cases would exceed paying the claim that is not owed. And that drives up the basic cost of healthcare for all of us and has driven insurance costs into the stratosphere.

And every time somebody suggests remedying that situation, the trial lawyers, aided and abetted by elected officials who themselves are mostly trial lawyers, will point to the very few cases that go to trial. What we are supposed to believe is that litigation is a tiny part of the medical costs overall. What they don't tell you are the fortunes they are raking in from their clients by just threatening the litigation.

With the onset of Medicare and Medicaid, the deep pockets of government covering those programs has sharply escalated that trend and Obamacare will only worsen it.

THANK YOU!!!!
I've been beating this drum constantly and it appears you are one of the very few that comprehend the magnitude of this gigantic cost driver.
$850 billion a year is what these 90% of physicians admit their reason is fear of lawsuits.
Further proof is this:
Up to 92% of US physicians practice defensive medicine.
76% of physicians report that defensive medicine decreases patient access to healthcare.
53% of physicians report delaying new techniques, procedures, and treatments due to fear of lawsuits.
Patients most affected by defensive medicine include those visiting emergency rooms and those requiring surgery.
Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
BUT NOTE this: "Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected
against lawsuits by the Federal Tort Claims Act.
Only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians.
89% of physicians support a patient’s right to be compensated fairly for true negligence.
SOURCE: Health News Observer rsaquo Physicians Estimate The Cost Of Defensive Medicine In Us At 650 To 850 Bill Articles

And so if government doctors won't be sued because of the Federal Tort Claims Act... why not expand that act to cover the rest of the physicians?
As a result this $850 billion cost would be reduced dramatically.
Then the insurance companies will NOT have claims to pay for these defensive measures and as a result and this is what most people are
grossly uninformed so I'm making it in bold letters!!!

STATE Insurance regulators approve premium increases.
IF insurance companies having to verify their claim costs have gone down, then the states WON"T approve RATE increases but MAY require reductions!

I have worked in both the medical and insurance industries so have some first hand experience. And my hubby is a 40-year experienced all lines general insurance adjuster who has worked hands on all that time and has sufficient credentials and experience that he has been used as an expert by the legal and insurance industries. During the course of this discussion on this thread I asked him his best guess of how many insurance claims are paid for claims the insurance company does not owe just to avoid the cost of litigation. He said he is aware of no hard statistics on that, but his best guess would be at least 50%. And it is an absolute certainty that those costs for products, services, and insurance coverage are passed on to us all.

So, unless the patient gets screwed by not being able to receive compensation for real negligence and injury as a result of it, what does it profit us for the government to assume the risk instead of the insurance companies? Now the government gets to decide who the winners and losers will be? I think most of us can see a real danger there.

The best solution except in the most hardship cases--and those could be judged on a case by case basis--is that if the plaintiff loses the case, he pays the court costs and attorney fees for the defendant or his/her insurance company. That would stop almost all opportunistic litigation in its tracks.

I don't know if you saw my last post...so here are the FACTS NOT guesses and it is BETTER far better then the "best guess of 50%" as there are hard statistics so please go to the below and check out the realities that insurance companies REJECT the FIRST time less then 5% NOT 50%

Without thinking I sure the consequences naive ignorant people like Obama BLAME insurance companies for doing what they are required to do pay claims!
On average The American Medical Association reports that between 1.38% and 5.07% of claims are denied by insurers on first submission.
https://www.optum.com/content/dam/optum/resources/whitePapers/Denial_Management_White_paper.pdf

 

[g5000]

To collapse the American health insurance industry and usher in single-payer.

That may not have been the conscious goal, but it is going to be the end result. Yep.

 

[healthmyths]

Guesses.. estimations... Please Obamacare is so replete with total fabrications!
1) Never were 46 million uninsured when 10 million are not citizens, 14 million should be enrolled in Medicaid/SCHIP and 18 million don't want or need!
2) Obama said ""Up to half of all Americans have a pre-existing condition," another gross lie!
Facts: half of 310 million Americans is 155 million. 85% of Americans have coverage... that means 266 million so where in the hell did he come up with "half"?
Facts: a total of 1.5 million Americans who were denied health insurance or paid higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions.
Obama s Pre-existing Conditions Whopper - Forbes
3) Obama said:
PRESIDENT OBAMA: "Partly because it’s not treated as effectively as it could be. Right now if we paid a family if a family care physician works with his or her patient to help them lose weight, modify diet, monitors whether they are taking their medications in a timely fashion, they might get reimbursed a pittance.
But if that same doctor Ends up getting their foot amputated, that’s $30,000, $40,000, $50,000. Immediately the surgeon is reimbursed."
Total f...king LIE...
A) the family physican makes nothing off an amputation so WHY would he be that "SAME doctor" that does the amputation! PURE bull crap!
B) So what Obama the fabricator did was his common practice HE ignorantly counted EVERYTHING but make it sound like the physician makes 30,40,50..etc.
Obama was quickly attacked by doctor organizations for getting his numbers wrong. According to an article from HealthLeaders Media, the American College of Surgeons noted in a statement that Medicare actually reimburses surgeons between $740 and $1,140 for a leg amputation — and private insurers tend to have similar rates. But Obama’s numbers were not made up: According to the Journal of the American Podiatric Medical Association, a foot or leg amputation costs between $30,000 and $60,000 in initial hospital costs, plus between $43,000 and $60,000 in costs for follow-up care over the next three years. So even though individual doctors may not have a large financial incentive to perform them, amputations are costly to the health insurance system.
Costs of Amputation Diabetes Self-Management
These are just 3 examples of the absolutely gross exaggerations Obama had done to ultimately get what he wants.. 1,300 companies out of business and
the "single payer" Just a absolutely bald face liar!

 

[Flopper]

So What Was The Point of Obamacare Again?

Politicians suffer from Munchausen by proxy syndrome.


They fuck up healthcare in the US then adopt Obama Hellcare to create the illusion that they are concerned about health care and its costs.

.

If they cared about healthCARE, they would build hospitals and preventive clinics.

PP/ACA is about power, and punitive wealth distribution from the middle class to the unproductive class.

Gruber pretty well laid it out.

The ACA was a compromise. There was not enough support for single payer so Congress came up with a bill that satisfied most of the basic requirements while still keeping healthcare delivery in the private sector, eliminating the preexisting condition requirement, increasing the number of insured, elimination of limits that allow insurance companies to bow out when the subscriber required extensive medical care, and rules that guaranteed that all plans have basic essentials such as inpatient and outpatient care, drug coverage, mental health care, etc.

The goal of reducing cost has been met for those in low income brackets, however in higher income brackets, premiums cost in most areas are higher.

IMHO, the ACA is a lot better than nothing, but it could have been much better.