So who is still mad about the civil war?

[Boss]

If it had been the north who was dependent on slaves for their economy I doubt seriously whether they would have fought the civil war.

I don't understand why people say this. We were NOT two nations. There wasn't a "northern economy" and "southern economy" ...just a US economy. The reason it was called "King Cotton" is because cotton was the United States' biggest export. Second and third biggest were tobacco and sugar cane... fourth and fifth were textiles made from cotton and refined sugar made from sugar cane. So, these three crops were essential to the US economy.

You want to construct some clever little "factoid" here's one for ya... If cotton, tobacco and sugar cane could grow in Northern climate, there would have been just as many slaves up North as there was in the South. The ONLY reason slaves were predominately in the South is because that's where cotton, tobacco and sugar cane grows.

They say it because its true, which is in fact what you yourself then said, "If cotton, tobacco and sugar cane could grow in Northern climate..."

Well... NO... it's NOT TRUE... hard head. We didn't have TWO countries with competing economies. We had ONE country with ONE economy. What I said was, if cotton, tobacco and sugar cane could've been grown in Northern climate, there would have been just as many slaves up North. That comment has ZERO to do with the economy... it's just a fact.

The US economy (not North or South) was dependent upon three major crops grown in the South... Cotton, tobacco and sugar cane. Our top 5 export products as a nation (not North or South) was tied to those three crops.

It is nothing but revisionist claptrap to pretend there was some mythical "Northern economy" that was unaffected by slavery. We did not have a "Northern" and "Southern" economy, we had a US economy.

 

[pwjohn]

What Robert E. Lee can teach us about Confederate memorials (Opinion) - CNN.com

After reading this article I figure that the left is still mad about it. I don't know of anyone who really pissed off about it other than 'liberals' in this country because whenever someone wants to show the confederate flag then the left gets upset. No one ever really cared if some guy had a memorial to a dead confederate soldier. According to this article General Lee thought all memorials should be torn down so as to not upset people. Do you know who is getting upset? It is the left because if there is some memorial out there dedicated to a dead confederate soldier then some 'liberal' somewhere wants to take it down. No one else FUCKING CARED in the entire world! It makes me wonder who is still pissed off about the civil war in this country.

Nobody really cares about how you feel about something such as this, and even less about your advice on how we should feel about it.

The reality is, more than 300, 000 southern boys wasted their lives on nothing more than a lifestyle none of them could afford to live. What they should have done was rise up and kill the buttfuckers that were promoting slavery as a way of life.

 

[kaz]

What Robert E. Lee can teach us about Confederate memorials (Opinion) - CNN.com

After reading this article I figure that the left is still mad about it. I don't know of anyone who really pissed off about it other than 'liberals' in this country because whenever someone wants to show the confederate flag then the left gets upset. No one ever really cared if some guy had a memorial to a dead confederate soldier. According to this article General Lee thought all memorials should be torn down so as to not upset people. Do you know who is getting upset? It is the left because if there is some memorial out there dedicated to a dead confederate soldier then some 'liberal' somewhere wants to take it down. No one else FUCKING CARED in the entire world! It makes me wonder who is still pissed off about the civil war in this country.

Well, you ‘figured’ wrong, as usual.

Your thread fails as a straw man fallacy.

It's funny how every thread criticizing liberals is a straw man fallacy ...

 

[bodecea]

What Robert E. Lee can teach us about Confederate memorials (Opinion) - CNN.com

After reading this article I figure that the left is still mad about it. I don't know of anyone who really pissed off about it other than 'liberals' in this country because whenever someone wants to show the confederate flag then the left gets upset. No one ever really cared if some guy had a memorial to a dead confederate soldier. According to this article General Lee thought all memorials should be torn down so as to not upset people. Do you know who is getting upset? It is the left because if there is some memorial out there dedicated to a dead confederate soldier then some 'liberal' somewhere wants to take it down. No one else FUCKING CARED in the entire world! It makes me wonder who is still pissed off about the civil war in this country.

Well, you ‘figured’ wrong, as usual.

Your thread fails as a straw man fallacy.

It's funny how every thread criticizing liberals is a straw man fallacy ...

Very true.

 

[BluesLegend]

If it had been the north who was dependent on slaves for their economy I doubt seriously whether they would have fought the civil war.

I don't understand why people say this. We were NOT two nations. There wasn't a "northern economy" and "southern economy" ...just a US economy. The reason it was called "King Cotton" is because cotton was the United States' biggest export. Second and third biggest were tobacco and sugar cane... fourth and fifth were textiles made from cotton and refined sugar made from sugar cane. So, these three crops were essential to the US economy.

You want to construct some clever little "factoid" here's one for ya... If cotton, tobacco and sugar cane could grow in Northern climate, there would have been just as many slaves up North as there was in the South. The ONLY reason slaves were predominately in the South is because that's where cotton, tobacco and sugar cane grows.

They say it because its true, which is in fact what you yourself then said, "If cotton, tobacco and sugar cane could grow in Northern climate..."

Well... NO... it's NOT TRUE... hard head. We didn't have TWO countries with competing economies. We had ONE country with ONE economy. What I said was, if cotton, tobacco and sugar cane could've been grown in Northern climate, there would have been just as many slaves up North. That comment has ZERO to do with the economy... it's just a fact.

The US economy (not North or South) was dependent upon three major crops grown in the South... Cotton, tobacco and sugar cane. Our top 5 export products as a nation (not North or South) was tied to those three crops.

It is nothing but revisionist claptrap to pretend there was some mythical "Northern economy" that was unaffected by slavery. We did not have a "Northern" and "Southern" economy, we had a US economy.

LOL I see US history is your weak subject, thanks for playing.

 

[kaz]

What Robert E. Lee can teach us about Confederate memorials (Opinion) - CNN.com

After reading this article I figure that the left is still mad about it. I don't know of anyone who really pissed off about it other than 'liberals' in this country because whenever someone wants to show the confederate flag then the left gets upset. No one ever really cared if some guy had a memorial to a dead confederate soldier. According to this article General Lee thought all memorials should be torn down so as to not upset people. Do you know who is getting upset? It is the left because if there is some memorial out there dedicated to a dead confederate soldier then some 'liberal' somewhere wants to take it down. No one else FUCKING CARED in the entire world! It makes me wonder who is still pissed off about the civil war in this country.

Well, you ‘figured’ wrong, as usual.

Your thread fails as a straw man fallacy.

It's funny how every thread criticizing liberals is a straw man fallacy ...

Very true.

Yes, liberalism actually means truth, it's in the liberal dictionary. How can the truth be a lie?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

What Robert E. Lee can teach us about Confederate memorials (Opinion) - CNN.com

After reading this article I figure that the left is still mad about it. I don't know of anyone who really pissed off about it other than 'liberals' in this country because whenever someone wants to show the confederate flag then the left gets upset. No one ever really cared if some guy had a memorial to a dead confederate soldier. According to this article General Lee thought all memorials should be torn down so as to not upset people. Do you know who is getting upset? It is the left because if there is some memorial out there dedicated to a dead confederate soldier then some 'liberal' somewhere wants to take it down. No one else FUCKING CARED in the entire world! It makes me wonder who is still pissed off about the civil war in this country.

Well, you ‘figured’ wrong, as usual.

Your thread fails as a straw man fallacy.

It's funny how every thread criticizing liberals is a straw man fallacy ...

That is consistently his singular response.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Yes, liberals, and some misguided conservatives, always twist Lee's comments about Confederate memorials and symbols. Lee made those comments during Reconstruction, when the South was being run like D.C., when former Confederates were having their lands stolen, and when the Radical Republicans were gearing up to strip former Confederates of their right to vote and hold public office. He did not feel that under those conditions it was wise to be erecting Confederate monuments or to be displaying the Confederate flag.

Of course, liberals ignore Lee when it comes to the causes of the war and Lee's comment that the war was fought over states rights and federal usurpation. Yeah, when it comes to those comments of Lee's, liberals couldn't care less.

 

[MarcATL]

The left is still mad about the civil war because they were never able to shame the South. The north was never able to make the South sorry for secession. The South isn't even sorry for slavery.

The left in the US today is deeply ashamed of America and everything it did. For anyone to have pride, especially in the South is a slap in the collective faces of the leftl.

Proud of slavery, aren't you?

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[MarcATL]

The Left tries to bury their history, to no avail.

Self-proclaimed conservatives are living in the passed, obsessed with reclaiming what they perceive to be former their former glory.

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[MarcATL]

I'm not mad about the Civil War. It is frustrating there is so much disinformation about it... most of it generated by revisionists who want to turn it into some kind of perverted reason to scapegoat the South and blame them for racism. Virtually everyone in America in 1860 was a racist by today's standards. In fact, it was only a few devoutly-religious Quaker ministers who founded the abolition movement, who actually believed black slaves were equal to white men. The issue of slavery had very little to do with the issue of equality.

Today, it is portrayed as the courageous moral righteous Northerners fighting for liberation of blacks against the backward racists in the South who wanted to cling to ownership of slaves. This is just factually inaccurate. The sole reason and justification for the war from the northern perspective was to preserve the union. Lincoln said this himself. He also intimated, if he could end the war by keeping slavery, he would do so. The war became focused on the issue of emancipation when the South was kicking ass and taking names. The North needed something to rally the people behind in order to prevail and emancipation became the "just cause" to continue the bloody war.

I think that people actually LEARN from history. I think the furnaces and concentration camps in Germany should remain there for people to see and visit. Certainly, people could vote to bulldoze them and pave over the area... maybe construct a nice mall or park... but just erase that abhorrent memory from history... I think that is wrong. I think we do a grave disservice to future generations by trying to "cleanse" history. The confederate flags don't need to be shoved into a closet... confederate memorials torn down... history cleansed... that's wrong. That's immoral in my opinion.

So you're saying that America, as we know it today was built upon the backs of black slaves, correct?

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[kaz]

What Robert E. Lee can teach us about Confederate memorials (Opinion) - CNN.com

After reading this article I figure that the left is still mad about it. I don't know of anyone who really pissed off about it other than 'liberals' in this country because whenever someone wants to show the confederate flag then the left gets upset. No one ever really cared if some guy had a memorial to a dead confederate soldier. According to this article General Lee thought all memorials should be torn down so as to not upset people. Do you know who is getting upset? It is the left because if there is some memorial out there dedicated to a dead confederate soldier then some 'liberal' somewhere wants to take it down. No one else FUCKING CARED in the entire world! It makes me wonder who is still pissed off about the civil war in this country.

Well, you ‘figured’ wrong, as usual.

Your thread fails as a straw man fallacy.

It's funny how every thread criticizing liberals is a straw man fallacy ...

That is consistently his singular response.

Yes, Clayton is driven by strict adherence to logic and intellectual, non-partisan analysis. Which is why he knows the Democrats are right on every issue and Democrats are concerned and motivated by nothing but helping others ...

 

[kaz]

I'm not mad about the Civil War. It is frustrating there is so much disinformation about it... most of it generated by revisionists who want to turn it into some kind of perverted reason to scapegoat the South and blame them for racism. Virtually everyone in America in 1860 was a racist by today's standards. In fact, it was only a few devoutly-religious Quaker ministers who founded the abolition movement, who actually believed black slaves were equal to white men. The issue of slavery had very little to do with the issue of equality.

Today, it is portrayed as the courageous moral righteous Northerners fighting for liberation of blacks against the backward racists in the South who wanted to cling to ownership of slaves. This is just factually inaccurate. The sole reason and justification for the war from the northern perspective was to preserve the union. Lincoln said this himself. He also intimated, if he could end the war by keeping slavery, he would do so. The war became focused on the issue of emancipation when the South was kicking ass and taking names. The North needed something to rally the people behind in order to prevail and emancipation became the "just cause" to continue the bloody war.

I think that people actually LEARN from history. I think the furnaces and concentration camps in Germany should remain there for people to see and visit. Certainly, people could vote to bulldoze them and pave over the area... maybe construct a nice mall or park... but just erase that abhorrent memory from history... I think that is wrong. I think we do a grave disservice to future generations by trying to "cleanse" history. The confederate flags don't need to be shoved into a closet... confederate memorials torn down... history cleansed... that's wrong. That's immoral in my opinion.

So you're saying that America, as we know it today was built upon the backs of black slaves, correct?

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How can you possibly get that out of what he said?

 

[Boss]

So you're saying that America, as we know it today was built upon the backs of black slaves, correct?

A lot of it was. A lot of it was also built by immigrants from Ireland, Germany, Italy, Japan, etc. Slaves provided mostly labor on plantations. They were considered to be in the same category as the farmer's mule. And guess who's courts all the way up to the highest in the land had upheld this viewpoint as a matter of public law for more than 80-something years before any talk of a war? Guess who's founding fathers failed to address the issue when forging their nation? It certainly wasn't the CSA.

Slaves were property... so sayeth the court. So you have to understand, from the slave owner's perspective... this is my legal property and what business does the government have in taking it? There is a Bill of Rights with a 4th Amendment that specifically says they can't do that. The error is in the finding of the US courts that slaves were property... that's not the Southerner's fault. It's not the slave owner's fault.

I'm afraid when it comes to slavery, nobody gets a free pass. No one can escape culpability. I resent people who try to scapegoat the South and blame slavery on them as if they were doing something illegal or indifferent to public policy. People act like the plantation owner had some kind of alternative choice... the way you grew cotton, tobacco and sugar cane back then was to have slaves to harvest it... that's just how you had to do it.

 

[kaz]

I'm not mad about the Civil War. It is frustrating there is so much disinformation about it... most of it generated by revisionists who want to turn it into some kind of perverted reason to scapegoat the South and blame them for racism. Virtually everyone in America in 1860 was a racist by today's standards. In fact, it was only a few devoutly-religious Quaker ministers who founded the abolition movement, who actually believed black slaves were equal to white men. The issue of slavery had very little to do with the issue of equality.

Today, it is portrayed as the courageous moral righteous Northerners fighting for liberation of blacks against the backward racists in the South who wanted to cling to ownership of slaves. This is just factually inaccurate. The sole reason and justification for the war from the northern perspective was to preserve the union. Lincoln said this himself. He also intimated, if he could end the war by keeping slavery, he would do so. The war became focused on the issue of emancipation when the South was kicking ass and taking names. The North needed something to rally the people behind in order to prevail and emancipation became the "just cause" to continue the bloody war.

I think that people actually LEARN from history. I think the furnaces and concentration camps in Germany should remain there for people to see and visit. Certainly, people could vote to bulldoze them and pave over the area... maybe construct a nice mall or park... but just erase that abhorrent memory from history... I think that is wrong. I think we do a grave disservice to future generations by trying to "cleanse" history. The confederate flags don't need to be shoved into a closet... confederate memorials torn down... history cleansed... that's wrong. That's immoral in my opinion.

True that almost all whites where racists by today's standards, but actually most northerners were against slavery. You don't have to not be a racist to oppose enslaving other races. And it was a bigger part of the war on both sides than you're giving it credit for being. Though certainly to your point it wasn't the only reason for the war. Also, Lincoln for sure wasn't championing the anti-slavery banner earlier on, but he did become more anti-slavery as the war progressed

 

[eflatminor]

It makes me wonder who is still pissed off about the civil war in this country.

One point: It wasn't a "civil war". A civil war is when factions within a country fight to overthrow the existing government so that they may run that country. That's not what happened in the war between the states. The Southern states did not want to overthrow anyone. They choose to exercise the right that was agreed to when the country was founded, which was to separate and form their own country should the national government become intolerable.

I understand we call it a civil war, but I think it's an important distinction to make.

Back to the point of the thread!

 

[Boss]

The reality is, more than 300, 000 southern boys wasted their lives on nothing more than a lifestyle none of them could afford to live. What they should have done was rise up and kill the buttfuckers that were promoting slavery as a way of life.

No, jackass... the reality is quite different.

No one was promoting slavery as a way of life. We had outlawed slave trade 50 years before the war. Southerner's felt they had the right to own slaves as property because the SCOTUS said they did... it was constitutional. If you were a farmer in 1860 and you wanted to grow cotton, tobacco or sugar cane... you know, our three biggest export crops? Well... you needed slaves to harvest your crops. Northern textile industries profited just as much as the plantation owners. Export shipping merchants made tons of money out of Boston and New York. England paid well for sugar... they can't grow sugar cane in England.

Everything in the US economy was tied to slavery and slave labor. I'm sorry if that bursts your little bubble but it's just a plain old fact. And the Southern boys who died, did so defending their homeland from an attacking Northern aggressor.

 

[kaz]

The reality is, more than 300, 000 southern boys wasted their lives on nothing more than a lifestyle none of them could afford to live. What they should have done was rise up and kill the buttfuckers that were promoting slavery as a way of life.

No, jackass... the reality is quite different.

No one was promoting slavery as a way of life. We had outlawed slave trade 50 years before the war. Southerner's felt they had the right to own slaves as property because the SCOTUS said they did... it was constitutional. If you were a farmer in 1860 and you wanted to grow cotton, tobacco or sugar cane... you know, our three biggest export crops? Well... you needed slaves to harvest your crops. Northern textile industries profited just as much as the plantation owners. Export shipping merchants made tons of money out of Boston and New York. England paid well for sugar... they can't grow sugar cane in England.

Everything in the US economy was tied to slavery and slave labor. I'm sorry if that bursts your little bubble but it's just a plain old fact. And the Southern boys who died, did so defending their homeland from an attacking Northern aggressor.

The Constitution didn't actually say they had a right to own slaves It just as you said ended the slave trade and they didn't put in the language to end it to kick the slavery can down the road so they could get the South to agree to it. You're asking for precision from others, you should give it as well, Boss. We pretty much agree on the fundamental points you're making

 

[Rustic]

The Civil War was such stupidity. It got the US nothing. The ones who are "still mad" are those who want right and left at each others throats.

As for the Dems being racist, its not that simple.

Its conservatives who have always been backward and racist. Democrats used to be conservative and Repubs used to be liberals.

Today, it may be true that not all Repubs are racists but its also true that all racists are Repubs.

Political correctness had made the word "racism" meaningless... Lol

 

[eflatminor]

Political correctness had made the word "racism" meaningless... Lol

Have to agree with that...but you're a racist for pointing it out!