So You Want to Fix the "Income Gap" and Help the Working Poor........

[flacaltenn]

Tired of the noise -- I'm sticking to policy and ideas. There are SO MANY SOLUTIONS out there that don't even get the slightest exposure. Because all festering problems are mired in the 2 party finger pointing. Meanwhile -- there are MILLIONS of politically invested America WORKING these problems and coming up with valid "alternative" solutions that you've never once heard about from Brand Name party leaders or the Media.

Here's 2 that apply to helping people cope with the changing meaning of a "job" and the way we approach "income equality"..

Chapter One..

First -- the Min Wage in all it's demogoguery and slender. One side wants to makes folks comfortable in menial jobs that don't lead to sustainable careers by PROMOTING THE JOB -- not the person. And the other side makes economic arguments about the cost or viability of the "raising all boats" approach.

How about ---- a Two Tiered Min Wage. One where the emphasis is getting people OUT of menial starting jobs and into careers. Tier ONE -- with the higher wage min -- requires that the worker currently be enrolled in some (almost ANY) form of continuing Ed. Could be vocational school, getting a GED, Art School, Divinity training, or even "Life Skills" for the actually retarded. Don't really CARE what it is --- as long as the worker is committed to continuing Ed. Seniors over 65 would get an exemption to be in Tier One.

Tier Two -- is the lower min wage. And would be the base from which adjustments to either Tier are made over time. However the ratio of wages would be kept constant with adjustments.

With THIS system -- I'd be MUCH MORE inclined to generousity when it comes to APPROACHING a "living wage". Because it's no longer just promoting the job -- it's promoting the INDIVIDUAL..

Chapter Two

In a similar way, every social net is SOME form of contract. There are onerous requirements considered like drug testing or kicking Granny out of public housing because her granddaughter "dealt drugs" while visiting. This proposal is NOWHERE near as onerous.

It's simple. Families recieving TANF or EITC or any other welfare would have a stated responsibility to keep their kids in school until 12th grade graduation. They must sign report cards, be aware of truancy, respond to requests from school authorities and make EVERY effort to keep their kids status and enrollment. They need to confer about found learning disabilities, provide the necessary supplies and the BASICS.

If a child is UNMANAGEABLE and simply cannot be compelled to attend and participate (up to the age of STATE legal emancipation) they must sign a release that allows the school to reassign them or otherwise attempt to get them educated. Perhaps academies are started with the discipline and special tutoring required. Don't CARE if those are "for profit" because we're talking about literally saving lives and keeping asses out of prison..

BOTH of these concepts add new wrinkles to those battles. Gives actual long term RESULTS. And is far more designed and nuanced than any stereotypical Dem/Rep/Media approach to the issue..

 

[Ricky LIbtardo]

Social engineering created the problems you're trying to fix with social engineering.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Social engineering created the problems you're trying to fix with social engineering.

Indeed. Trying to cure the sickness with an increasing dose of the same poison that caused it in the first place.

 

[flacaltenn]

Social engineering created the problems you're trying to fix with social engineering.

It's not "social engineering" if you already HAVE a Min Wage rule and Welfare programs. I gave you examples of all the "strings" attached to welfare. MOST of those are punitive for purposes of the Drug war. And they provide NO assistance or recourse for drug rehab.

Here, I'm arguing that a Min Wage makes MORE SENSE if you emphasis the transient nature of it. Rather than just making folks comfortable for LIFE (implied by "living wage") in menial dead end work.

And in the case of HS graduation, we are FAILING MISERABLY to keep kids in school for graduation and DOOMING them to the cycle of poverty. If you're gonna have poverty programs -- they should be DESIGNED to END POVERTY...

I spend a lot of time in LParty meetings arguing with more pure libertarians about designs like these being a "use of force". That's a big no no in the LParty. BUT -- any CONTRACT is fine with them. It's a CONTRACT. Not a use of force. In either proposal -- there are choices. In the case of parent making a declaration that the kid is uncontrollable --- perhaps there are "special military style academies". Even boarding situations for which VOUCHERS would be issued. It get the job done. BEFORE they end up struggling economically and legally.. Which COSTS society far more..

 

[flacaltenn]

Social engineering created the problems you're trying to fix with social engineering.

Indeed. Trying to cure the sickness with an increasing dose of the same poison that caused it in the first place.

View attachment 134397

So -- you advocate ENDING min wage and social welfare because they are "social engineering". Here's the dirty secret. IT SHOULD BE ENGINEERING. Govt should face issues more like Engineers and less like Santa Claus..

 

[Wyatt earp]

I have been saying we needed a two tier minimum.wage for a long time but my angle was a two tier between Adults and under 18..(due to the high teenage unemployment)



But I heard it was spoken about before and no way does the left want that.

 

[12icer]

Actually the liberal propaganda centers are the PROBLEM. I really don't want any of my descendants to attend the public school system anymore, it is only a place to destroy all of the values and the aspirations of any individual child with even a modicum of honor, and intellect. The only way to repair our country is to completely STOP all liberal socialist/communist programs. Then rebuild them with the foundation being achievement, honor, and personal responsibility. Then there wont be a need for a "minimum wage"

 

[Wry Catcher]

Social engineering created the problems you're trying to fix with social engineering.

Here ya go, the idea that no solution exists ^^^ is the meat and potatoes of a true callous conservative; one who offers nothing but an echo of a meme.

Much of which is proposed in the OP was part of Welfare Reform, when TANF replaced AFDC. TANF allowed each state to develop a plan of their own devising, I don't know what other states have done, but CA has rules in place which require many of ideas suggested in the OP.

 

[Coyote]

Some real thinking outside the box here.

I like the ideas.

A tiered min wage system. There's another aspect with minimum wage that should be looked at as well and that is age. Should an unemancipated highschool student earn the same wage as someone supporting him or herself?

 

[Siete]

Min wage

Min wage Plus

two stages of Min wage ... I like it.

it gives anti min wage haters another level to bitch about.

 

[TNHarley]

Some real thinking outside the box here.

I like the ideas.

A tiered min wage system. There's another aspect with minimum wage that should be looked at as well and that is age. Should an unemancipated highschool student earn the same wage as someone supporting him or herself?

yes if their quality is the same

 

[TNHarley]

Well, to b cear, I just don think the govt should be mandating that.
Isn't too much the govt SHOULD be mandating. Pay isnt one of them

 

[Darkwind]

Tired of the noise -- I'm sticking to policy and ideas. There are SO MANY SOLUTIONS out there that don't even get the slightest exposure. Because all festering problems are mired in the 2 party finger pointing. Meanwhile -- there are MILLIONS of politically invested America WORKING these problems and coming up with valid "alternative" solutions that you've never once heard about from Brand Name party leaders or the Media.

Here's 2 that apply to helping people cope with the changing meaning of a "job" and the way we approach "income equality"..

Chapter One..

First -- the Min Wage in all it's demogoguery and slender. One side wants to makes folks comfortable in menial jobs that don't lead to sustainable careers by PROMOTING THE JOB -- not the person. And the other side makes economic arguments about the cost or viability of the "raising all boats" approach.

How about ---- a Two Tiered Min Wage. One where the emphasis is getting people OUT of menial starting jobs and into careers. Tier ONE -- with the higher wage min -- requires that the worker currently be enrolled in some (almost ANY) form of continuing Ed. Could be vocational school, getting a GED, Art School, Divinity training, or even "Life Skills" for the actually retarded. Don't really CARE what it is --- as long as the worker is committed to continuing Ed. Seniors over 65 would get an exemption to be in Tier One.

Tier Two -- is the lower min wage. And would be the base from which adjustments to either Tier are made over time. However the ratio of wages would be kept constant with adjustments.

With THIS system -- I'd be MUCH MORE inclined to generousity when it comes to APPROACHING a "living wage". Because it's no longer just promoting the job -- it's promoting the INDIVIDUAL..

Chapter Two

In a similar way, every social net is SOME form of contract. There are onerous requirements considered like drug testing or kicking Granny out of public housing because her granddaughter "dealt drugs" while visiting. This proposal is NOWHERE near as onerous.

It's simple. Families recieving TANF or EITC or any other welfare would have a stated responsibility to keep their kids in school until 12th grade graduation. They must sign report cards, be aware of truancy, respond to requests from school authorities and make EVERY effort to keep their kids status and enrollment. They need to confer about found learning disabilities, provide the necessary supplies and the BASICS.

If a child is UNMANAGEABLE and simply cannot be compelled to attend and participate (up to the age of STATE legal emancipation) they must sign a release that allows the school to reassign them or otherwise attempt to get them educated. Perhaps academies are started with the discipline and special tutoring required. Don't CARE if those are "for profit" because we're talking about literally saving lives and keeping asses out of prison..

BOTH of these concepts add new wrinkles to those battles. Gives actual long term RESULTS. And is far more designed and nuanced than any stereotypical Dem/Rep/Media approach to the issue..

Two things. What is the motivation? You're asking people to do more schooling for as separate minimum wage. Yeah, its slightly higher than the none schooled program.

Whats the motivation to get them out of minimum wage to make room for younger recruits.

There has to be some kind of finish line where if they cross it, and haven't improved their position, they are on their own or they have to pay back the cost of their training.

It has to be said. Young people particularly, but people in general, have to be motivated. Left to their own, they'll just sit back and let people argue that they should get more money for doing nothing extra, and they'll let you do that all day long.

 

[DGS49]

The National minimum wage law is a perfect storm of unconstitutionality, economic folly, and immorality. It is unconstitutional because Congress is only empowered to regulate interstate commerce, and not the relationships between employer and employee, which are neither Commerce nor interstate. As to the economic wisdom, no less a Leftist icon than Paul Krugman - before he took up political prostitution - noted the stupidity of the MW in his first Economics text. As for the moral issue, if an employer has work to be done which she values at $5.00 per hpur, and there is a person who wants to do that work for the offered wage, then the MW law steps in; the work doesn't get done, and the would-be worker remains unemployed. Immoral as hell.

Along with the Abomination known as Davis Bacon, the MW should be abolished immediately. Nothing but good will come of it.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Some real thinking outside the box here.

I like the ideas.

A tiered min wage system. There's another aspect with minimum wage that should be looked at as well and that is age. Should an unemancipated highschool student earn the same wage as someone supporting him or herself?

So, an employer, seeking to fill a position that requires little skill, has a choice between hiring someone in one minimum-wage-tier, or hiring someone else in a different tier, with a higher minimum wage, which one is he going to hire?

If the unemancipated minor can be hired at a lower wage then the one who is trying to support himself, guess who isn't going to get that job that he needs to support himself.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

So -- you advocate ENDING min wage and social welfare because they are "social engineering". Here's the dirty secret. IT SHOULD BE ENGINEERING. Govt should face issues more like Engineers and less like Santa Claus..

You just seem to be proving the cliché that defines insanity as doing what has been done before, and expecting a different result.

Too much of government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong is what created the problem. You are not going to solve the problem by having government stick its nose even deeper into where it doesn't belong.

 

[sartre play]

Ever hear of RED NECK REVOLT, some of there stuff could work re income gap.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Some real thinking outside the box here.

I like the ideas.

A tiered min wage system. There's another aspect with minimum wage that should be looked at as well and that is age. Should an unemancipated highschool student earn the same wage as someone supporting him or herself?

So, an employer, seeking to fill a position that requires little skill, has a choice between hiring someone in one minimum-wage-tier, or hiring someone else in a different tier, with a higher minimum wage, which one is he going to hire?

If the unemancipated minor can be hired at a lower wage then the one who is trying to support himself, guess who isn't going to get that job that he needs to support himself.

Who gets the job now , the adult with only one set minimum wage..the kids are left with no jobs like we saw during the recession. No way to improve or build a resume to move up




.

 

[flacaltenn]

Actually the liberal propaganda centers are the PROBLEM. I really don't want any of my descendants to attend the public school system anymore, it is only a place to destroy all of the values and the aspirations of any individual child with even a modicum of honor, and intellect. The only way to repair our country is to completely STOP all liberal socialist/communist programs. Then rebuild them with the foundation being achievement, honor, and personal responsibility. Then there wont be a need for a "minimum wage"

I'd like to know how to do that. Because large urban poor communities have 40% and MORE dropping out. The solution for suburban schools isn't anything LIKE the war zones in the urban centers. One of lefty heroes USED to be Jerry Brown. Not so much since he became governor and lost his principles. But as Mayor of Oakland, he fought vehement lefty opposition to a "military style public academy". 6 days a week. 9th to 12th grade. 7 hours a day.. They called him every name in the book. It opened in a lottery with 8500 (iirc) applicants for 800 slots. THOSE parents are not the problem. If given CHOICES -- they WILL put kids in there that would benefit. And it was a huge benefit to Oakland school system.

Every effort needs to be made to FIX that grad rate. When 70% of kids are not graduating from inner city schools, that's a bigger problem than the "indoctrination" that DOES exist -- along with some really bad Academic ideas from the teaching schools.

Families receiving benefits need to do the MINIMUM to keep THEIR kids in school..

 

[flacaltenn]

Social engineering created the problems you're trying to fix with social engineering.

Here ya go, the idea that no solution exists ^^^ is the meat and potatoes of a true callous conservative; one who offers nothing but an echo of a meme.

Much of which is proposed in the OP was part of Welfare Reform, when TANF replaced AFDC. TANF allowed each state to develop a plan of their own devising, I don't know what other states have done, but CA has rules in place which require many of ideas suggested in the OP.

Does Cali actually tie Parent participation into benefits? I doubt that progressive paradise would make that kind of deal..