Soak the Rich, Lose the Rich

[ddye]

Americans know how to use the moving van to escape high taxes.Soak the Rich, Lose the Rich - WSJ.com

In the seventies CEOs made 40 times what average workers made. Now they make over 450 times what average workers make. Did CEOs magically start working ten times harder in the seventies?

Fuck no. They learned how to lobby Congress and game the rules. Look at income figures for the past 30 years. How can anyone with any sense bitch about "poor rich people"?

The rich have been stealing working peoples' money (by percentage) at an astounding rate for decades. And yet the right continues to kiss their asses as if the rich will allow crumbs to fall out of the windows of their limousines... it makes me sick.

Doug

I don't agree with the premise of the OP, but I wouldn't agree with the kind of legislation Barney Frank tried to push through earlier this year, either, when he tried to get a bill going that would limit ALL CEO pay, not just those of companies that recieved federal bailout money.


I have a big problem seeing all these CEOs getting golden parachutes when the companies they run go under and the little guys working under them find themselves losing their houses, but I have no good answer for what, if anything, should be done about it.

It's not executive pay that's the issue, it's the way the wealthy have gone about rewriting the rules via lobbying and buying politicians.

Doug

 

[KittenKoder]

Americans know how to use the moving van to escape high taxes.Soak the Rich, Lose the Rich - WSJ.com

In the seventies CEOs made 40 times what average workers made. Now they make over 450 times what average workers make. Did CEOs magically start working ten times harder in the seventies?

Fuck no. They learned how to lobby Congress and game the rules. Look at income figures for the past 30 years. How can anyone with any sense bitch about "poor rich people"?

The rich have been stealing working peoples' money (by percentage) at an astounding rate for decades. And yet the right continues to kiss their asses as if the rich will allow crumbs to fall out of the windows of their limousines... it makes me sick.

Doug

I don't agree with the premise of the OP, but I wouldn't agree with the kind of legislation Barney Frank tried to push through earlier this year, either, when he tried to get a bill going that would limit ALL CEO pay, not just those of companies that recieved federal bailout money.


I have a big problem seeing all these CEOs getting golden parachutes when the companies they run go under and the little guys working under them find themselves losing their houses, but I have no good answer for what, if anything, should be done about it.

Get rid of the government regulations that give the CEOs so much power ... that would solve a lot of problems as well as reduce the price to do business opening up the market so we can actually see what capitalism does.

 

[ozzmdj]

Unemployment Rose in 29 States Last Month; Michigan Rate Highest at 15.1%... California Was Among States With Record Unemployment (Update3) - Bloomberg.com

 

[oreo]

In the seventies CEOs made 40 times what average workers made. Now they make over 450 times what average workers make. Did CEOs magically start working ten times harder in the seventies?

Fuck no. They learned how to lobby Congress and game the rules. Look at income figures for the past 30 years. How can anyone with any sense bitch about "poor rich people"?

The rich have been stealing working peoples' money (by percentage) at an astounding rate for decades. And yet the right continues to kiss their asses as if the rich will allow crumbs to fall out of the windows of their limousines... it makes me sick.

Doug

I don't agree with the premise of the OP, but I wouldn't agree with the kind of legislation Barney Frank tried to push through earlier this year, either, when he tried to get a bill going that would limit ALL CEO pay, not just those of companies that recieved federal bailout money.


I have a big problem seeing all these CEOs getting golden parachutes when the companies they run go under and the little guys working under them find themselves losing their houses, but I have no good answer for what, if anything, should be done about it.

It's not executive pay that's the issue, it's the way the wealthy have gone about rewriting the rules via lobbying and buying politicians.

Doug

Yes & you can start with the Obama administration--of which his pick for treasury secretary (Timothy Geithner) stuck in 64 MILLION (taxpayer dollars) to give executives at AIG & 200+ MILLION (of taxpayer dollars) for executive bonuses for Freddie/Fannie--

 

[oreo]

Unemployment Rose in 29 States Last Month; Michigan Rate Highest at 15.1%... California Was Among States With Record Unemployment (Update3) - Bloomberg.com

Unemployment in the construction industry is 18.7%!!! But--I guess that wasn't "too big to fail"--- No taxpayer bail-outs here.

 

[oreo]

I think deaf ears are present.

There is nothing wrong with being rich, and there is nothing wrong with a progressive tax structure like we have had for decades.

What is being argued, at least by me, is whether our progressive tax structure that was initially instituted decades ago, which understood that you can not get blood out of a turnip, and understood the IMPORTANCE of having a strong middle class for America's continual success, has been manipulated SO MUCH by those elite with those we have elected in to power to represent us, that the system itself is corrupt now, and not serving it's purpose.....I seriously doubt that our IRS CODE when it was created, was 12 feet high if all the paper the code is written on is stacked.... ya know?

My parents are rich, not super wealthy but rich...none the less...they earned their money...mostly by being penny pinchers, they never took vacations, unless camping, never went out to dinner, mom packed dad's and my sister and my lunch every day, cooked our breakfasts and dinners...pinching pennies along the way...she sewed our clothes until my sister and I hit 12...just penny pincher-ing, no other way to describe it....Even as seniors, they now pay out the yin yang in taxes....but they can afford to do such and they don't complain, they are grateful for what this country gave them, the opportunity to become rich....

my parents worked hard and saved their whole life for the million or 2 that they have in wealth, while the Ceo gets this sum in one year, what took my father 50 years of bust ass working and restraining from any of the luxuries in life while he went along. My father does not wish ill on the person who managed to finagle this kind of salary....but please, as this person, don't be sending your lobbyist peons out to bid your cause, of not wanting to pay the taxes due....

Care

Unfortunately for you & your parents--the IRS is not discremantory when it comes to income & how one makes it. It all comes out of the same barrel.

This is the 1st time in history where success is punished & failure is rewarded.

Being in my own small sub-s business for the last 30+ years--I can honestly tell you that when you have a government that is so anti-business--anti-wealth--anti-producers--anti-risktakers & threaten to take away profit from them because they are successful--you end up with an anti-growth attitude in the private sector. And that's why our unemployment in this country is sky-rocketing & will remain high until attitudes in Washington D.C. change.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

anti-business--anti-wealth--anti-producers--anti-risktakers

Bullshit. We gave the uber wealthy "job creators" unnecessary tax breaks for a decade and waited to get "trickled" on. Never happened. How do you explain this as "anti-business"?
Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | U.S. | Reuters

They continued to hoard money and move jobs offshore to maximize profits. We are working longer and harder yet not being compensated accordingly. I pay 40% of my income (@ 45K a year) to the state & federal government but a millionare only has to pay 15% or less and THEN hides most of his money offshore as well? Tell me how that is fair. Voodoo economics indeed.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Just like in 1893 and 1929 and in the last two years, economies with little or no regulation imploded leading to massive recessions and depressions. The American public fully understands that the GOP had the government from 2001 through 2006, could have changed the direction of things, and failed to do so. The American public punished the GOP nationally in 2008. It will do so next year and in 2012.

Either the Mitch McConnell GOP changes or it is a permanent minority status for a very long time.

 

[ozzmdj]

Mayor Says President's Idea To Limit Size And Investments Will Lead To Big Problems For NYC, Including Layoffs.....Bloomberg Hammers Obama, Congress Over Bank Plan - wcbstv.com

 

[editec]

WE may lose the wealthy class but we won't lose the UBER-WEATHY.

Who, after all do you think is EATING THE RICH?

The poor?

Do any of us think that the poor are benefitting from this economic meltdown?

It's the hard working bourgoise who pay the majority of taxes so the UBERWEALTHY don't have to.

 

[ozzmdj]

Oregon votes on higher taxes for rich, businesses... Last-minute voters could decide tax Measures 66, 67 | Politics & Elections - - Oregonlive.com

Warm up the U-Hauls

 

[chanel]

Corzine did the same thing. As soon as Obama declared $250K as filthy rich, Sir Jon of NJ followed suit. And it looks like those subchapter S Corps. are going to be hit with another tax increase in March. The UI payroll tax may go up $1000 per employee. Struggling businesses may be forced to lay off even more people. Trickle down misery.

 

[chanel]

More than $70 billion in wealth left New Jersey between 2004 and 2008 as affluent residents moved elsewhere, according to a report released Wednesday that marks a swift reversal of fortune for a state once considered the nation’s wealthiest.

Conducted by the Center on Wealth and Philanthropy at Boston College, the report found wealthy households in New Jersey were leaving for other states — mainly Florida, Pennsylvania and New York — at a faster rate than they were being replaced.Wealthy residents are a key driver for everything from job creation and consumer spending to the real estate market and the state budget, said Jim Hughes, dean of the Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers University. In New Jersey, the top 1 percent of taxpayers pay more than 40 percent of the state’s income tax, he said.

“That’s probably why we have these massive income shortfalls in the state budget, especially this year,” he said.

Until the tax structure is improved, he said, “we’ll probably see a continuation of the trend, until there are no more high-wealth individuals left.”

N.J. loses $70B in wealth over four years as residents leave state at brisk pace | New Jersey Business - - NJ.com

Study after study seems to show the same, yet they still don't get it. It's easy to be "hatin on" the rich, until there's no money left. Someone has to make up the difference.

 

[Dr Gregg]

How you can defend the top 1% who are billionaires and live a luxurious life is beyond me. They are scum if they are filthy rich but they want more and more and more just to hoarde all the money. Yeah, the poor rich are really suffering miserably being taxed.

Yeah, we should just not have no taxes at all so that someone making 10K a year pays the same as someone making 20 million a year

I'll be more than happy to pay 10 million in taxes if I'm taking home 10 million salary anyday

 

[Dr Gregg]

it's funny how dishonest people can be. They are acting like the rich are suffering in poverty because they are getting taxed more. WHat a crock. On top of the fact all the tax money has helped them make their millions,.

 

[SwingVoter]

Clinton raised taxes on wealthiest filers 31% to 39.6% in 1993. Over the next four years, 10 million net new jobs were created, over 9 million of which were in the private sector. Moreover, this was before the Internet boom kicked into full gear in 97, 98, and 99, and it helped reduce the deficit.

At the same time, the fastest growing states in this country are mostly those with low or no income tax.

This isn't an issue of philosophy, but choice. People don't generally flee the country if the Fed gov't raise taxes, but they have 49 other choices when their state governments get carried away. NJ, Calif, and others are just handing their futures to Texas.

 

[Skull Pilot]

How you can defend the top 1% who are billionaires and live a luxurious life is beyond me. They are scum if they are filthy rich but they want more and more and more just to hoarde all the money. Yeah, the poor rich are really suffering miserably being taxed.

Yeah, we should just not have no taxes at all so that someone making 10K a year pays the same as someone making 20 million a year

I'll be more than happy to pay 10 million in taxes if I'm taking home 10 million salary anyday

No one is asking someone making 10K a year to pay the same amount of taxes as one making 10 million, just the same percentage.

A tax of 20% would mean the 10K earner pays 2000 a year in taxes while the 10 million dollar earner pays 2000000 a year in taxes.

sounds fair to me.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Clinton raised taxes on wealthiest filers 31% to 39.6% in 1993. Over the next four years, 10 million net new jobs were created, over 9 million of which were in the private sector. Moreover, this was before the Internet boom kicked into full gear in 97, 98, and 99, and it helped reduce the deficit.

At the same time, the fastest growing states in this country are mostly those with low or no income tax.

This isn't an issue of philosophy, but choice. People don't generally flee the country if the Fed gov't raise taxes, but they have 49 other choices when their state governments get carried away. NJ, Calif, and others are just handing their futures to Texas.

They can flee all they want, but not every place has a large population of highly educated workforce around them, especialy more technical and innovative technology companies. THe places that have a huge cost of living are areas with access to financial institutes, and most importantly, a highly educated workforce as they are surrounded by clusters of prestigious universities. NYC, Boston, San Diego, SF, Wash DC all have many top institutes of higher learning withing a short radius. THey are also packed with collaborative companies and resources valuable to the company6

So not every company is going to flee from a state with that kind of resources

 

[edthecynic]

How you can defend the top 1% who are billionaires and live a luxurious life is beyond me. They are scum if they are filthy rich but they want more and more and more just to hoarde all the money. Yeah, the poor rich are really suffering miserably being taxed.

Yeah, we should just not have no taxes at all so that someone making 10K a year pays the same as someone making 20 million a year

I'll be more than happy to pay 10 million in taxes if I'm taking home 10 million salary anyday

No one is asking someone making 10K a year to pay the same amount of taxes as one making 10 million, just the same percentage.

A tax of 20% would mean the 10K earner pays 2000 a year in taxes while the 10 million dollar earner pays 2000000 a year in taxes.

sounds fair to me.

Sounds fair to me too. That's why I'm a Flat Taxer.

Unfortunately our present tax system doesn't work that way. The truly wealthy are able to dodge most or all of their taxes. For example, when Nelson Rockefeller was appointed VP by Ford he made his last years tax return public. On a 7 figure income he paid not one single penny in taxes.

August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.

RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT

The Truth About Taxes
August 6, 2007
RUSH: I've told you before: the income tax is designed to keep people like his [Buffett's] secretary from becoming wealthy! There is no "wealth" tax. So this is a big misnomer. ...
But there's no tax on wealth. There is a tax on income, and the tax on income is designed to keep everybody who is not wealthy from getting there.

I'm talking about genuine wealth, not the way Democrats define "rich."

 

[chanel]

Small businesses making a quarter mil are hardly "uber rich" Is 50 percent enough or should we go for 70? Why not 80? It gets tiresome arguing with the "screw the rich" people who love to use the 20 million figure. Someday maybe we'll all be able to write off our 50K haircuts like Jennifer Aniston