social security

[Toro]

We should give people the option of investing in their own private accounts.

We should make SS into a real pension fund that invests in stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. Everyone has to be part of this new SS fund until they are 40. At 40, they can transfer their funds to their dedicated retirement account but still must contribute to it until retirement. However, they can manage it the way they see fit.

 

[cielo42]

Petition Congress to raise taxes and close loops holes in Debt Ceiling debate
Please sign the petition below and email your local representatives/senators!
http://www.change.org/petitions/dema...e-debt-ceiling

The American middle and lower class refuse to bare the entire burden of balancing the United States' massive debt. The people of the United States have grown fearful with the threat of a credit default looming because of a stagnant debate in our Congress about raising the debt ceiling. In recent negotiations, President Obama has put forth a deal that would cut parts of social security and medicare while raising tax revenues. We the people disagree with the notion that our welfare programs must be sacrificed in order to balance the federal government's budget. Republicans have refused to consider raising taxes and therefore I ask that everyone call or email their senators and state representatives demanding that they leave our welfare programs alone and return taxes for the upper class back to pre-Bush-era rates while also closing loop holes for big oil and agriculture.

 

[MikeK]

I just wrote a letter to the Democratic National Committee (430 S Capitol St S.E. Washington DC 20003) to tell them I believe Obama to be a right-wing Trojan Horse.

He is useless and I will not vote for him in 2012.

 

[uscitizen]

We should give people the option of investing in their own private accounts.

We should make SS into a real pension fund that invests in stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. Everyone has to be part of this new SS fund until they are 40. At 40, they can transfer their funds to their dedicated retirement account but still must contribute to it until retirement. However, they can manage it the way they see fit.

yeah we need to let someone trustworthy like Wall Street and JP Chase manage SS for us instead of that untrustworthy US government.

 

[Flopper]

Those are IOUs only.

Yes, that's exactly what a treasury bill is, no collateral just backed by the full faith and credit of the United States.

Are you under the assumption that the 'faith and credit' of the federal government is infinite. WAKE UP. That is exactly what the government is losing.

If the full faith and credit of the US government is no good, then the problem is not just S.S. All government obligations are suspect including treasury bills, notes, savings bonds, and oh yes the dollars in your wallet.

 

[Claudette]

You can thank LBJ for that my friend.

He needed money to fund the Vietnam War and there were all those billions in SS money just sitting there.

Not anymore.

Congress funds wars, never Presidents.

True. But LBJ had a Dem Congress so no problem.

They voted to let him have that money and SS was fucked from that point onwards.

 

[whitehall]

Too late. FDR was stealing FICA taxes right off the bat and LBJ made official back in 1964 that Social Security taxes would be placed in the general fund. There is no locked box and there was never a locked box and there ain't likely to be a locked box in the future.

 

[Flopper]

Those are IOUs only.

Yes, that's exactly what a treasury bill is, no collateral just backed by the full faith and credit of the United States.

This is 2nd time you've made that assertion, Flopper.. I gave you the back-up on this.

All that sits at the Soc Sec Admin are "Special Issue" non-transferable "intra-governmental transfer bonds" They are NOT normal Treasury bonds.. Congress could decide to default on these IOUs without affecting the Fed bond market..

They cannot be sold to 3rd parties -- Have NO market value.. And if interest is paid on them, it's the 2nd time it's been stolen from the taxpayers. You might have missed the ORIGINAL theft of the $2Trill.. But I hope you catch them the 2nd time....

MAYBE we should ask the SSA...

Special-issue securities, Social Security trust funds

The Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Disability Insurance Trust Fund comprise the Social Security trust funds. Both funds are managed by the Department of the Treasury through their Bureau of Public Debt. Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government. There are two general types of such securities:

•Special issues—available only to the trust funds
•Public issues—marketable Treasury bonds available to the public.
The trust funds now hold only special issues, but they have held public issues in the past.

Holy SHIT! Were we robbed 3 times?? Wonder what happened to those "public issue" bonds?

Ask yourself why -- when SS books are going negative fast --- WHY the SSA CLAIMS that the treasury is gonna kick in a SURPLUS (over and beyond what's required to balance the fund) for the next 20 years or so?? That's the 4th GRAND THIEF that most folks aren't even aware of yet..

Special interest treasury bills are ever bit as safe as ordinary treasury bills. They are both backed by the full faith and credit of US government. Failure to pay either type is a default. They are actually safer than ordinary treasuries because unlike other treasuries, the government can not refuse to pay interest or principal without an act of congress. If the debt ceiling is not raised, the administration could default on ordinary treasuries but not special interest treasuries.

 

[Flopper]

Politicians and social security is like foxes guarding the hen house. The politicians have been drooling, salivating and licking their chops for years, now they are going to pounce on it and tear it to pieces. And if you don't like it, what are you going to do about it?

What makes you think there is anything left to tear to pieces?

It is already gone.

If the trust fund is already gone, then it never existed. From day one the trust fund has been invested in US debt. Despite the Republican attempt to bring on a default, US debt is still considered one of the safest investments in the world, however that may change in a few weeks.

 

[auditor0007]

You can thank LBJ for that my friend.

He needed money to fund the Vietnam War and there were all those billions in SS money just sitting there.

Not anymore.

Reagan helped to raise the rate on SS, so that there would be a huge surplus. Republicans and Democrats since then have spent it all away. Everyone is to blame. Now the only choice is to raise the retirement age in order to insure everyone receives full benefits.

 

[auditor0007]

Too late. FDR was stealing FICA taxes right off the bat and LBJ made official back in 1964 that Social Security taxes would be placed in the general fund. There is no locked box and there was never a locked box and there ain't likely to be a locked box in the future.

It really is no longer a matter of there being a locked box. We only have enough coming in to pay current recipients, so there is no longer any additional funds to borrow from. This has caused a fairly sizable drop in revenue for other expenses and has helped contribute to the massive yearly deficits.

 

[whitehall]

There is no "locked box". There never was. Congress started spending FICA taxes as soon as the entitlement was created and LBJ made it "legal" with a presidential authorization.

 

[ShackledNation]

hey congress quit tampering with social security, ill dare you guys, robb from the working taxpayers to fund illegals or slackers with the working folks money that they earned and put in for retirement, most people would go to jail for these actions.
obama has wasted enough money to foreign countries and bailouts plus money/ assistance for welfare and slackers to have corrected social security, dont continue to rob the working people who made this country, working folks have to be responsible with their money,how about government getting their act together and living within their means, and oh by the way fix social security, because you guys screwed it up, theres enough of you guys sittin on your bottoms drawing big pay,lets do something.

So by taxing away workers money, spending it, and then paying those workers retirement with other people's money that could have been invested, Congress is helping the working people? It seems to me like social security is the robbery.

Phase out social security, and abolish it. Allow people to create their own private retirement accounts. They would generate more money. Invest in mutual funds if you worry you do not have the know how to make the decisions yourself. The market provides all you need. The government takes away your hard earned money and pretends like it is doing you a favor when it returns the stolen property.

 

[MaggieMae]

We should give people the option of investing in their own private accounts.

We should make SS into a real pension fund that invests in stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. Everyone has to be part of this new SS fund until they are 40. At 40, they can transfer their funds to their dedicated retirement account but still must contribute to it until retirement. However, they can manage it the way they see fit.

And also make SSI a separate "welfare" program, which is exactly what it is. Social Security retirement is not.

 

[MaggieMae]

You can thank LBJ for that my friend.

He needed money to fund the Vietnam War and there were all those billions in SS money just sitting there.

Not anymore.

Reagan helped to raise the rate on SS, so that there would be a huge surplus. Republicans and Democrats since then have spent it all away. Everyone is to blame. Now the only choice is to raise the retirement age in order to insure everyone receives full benefits.

There also needs to be a means test so that multi-millionaires/billionaires only get back what they put in. They don't need it. If a time came when they did, then they could reapply.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Take away the cap on maximum income that is taxed for SS. Take social security out at the same rate whether the person makes $25,000 per year or $25,000,000 per year.

The fund would start growing in a hurry.

That as well as quit borrowing from the SS funds for other purposes.

 

[Flopper]

There is no "locked box". There never was. Congress started spending FICA taxes as soon as the entitlement was created and LBJ made it "legal" with a presidential authorization.

If by lock-box, you mean cash sitting in an account invested in nothing, then no there has never been a lock-box and for good reason. Most of the 2 trillion dollars in assets in the fund comes from interest earned on investments in treasuries bonds. Typically the fund earns 50 or 60 billion a year.

By law social security payroll taxes go to the treasury where benefits checks are issued. Any remaining funds must be deposited in the trust fund. Most of the funds assets are then invested in US treasury bonds and special issue treasury bonds. Any other use of the funds is illegal.

In most years there is sufficient payroll taxes coming in to pay all benefits, therefore as bonds mature, the proceeds are reinvested in order to maximize interest payments to the fund. Once in the 1980's and in 2010 and 2011, payroll taxes were insufficient to cover benefit payments therefor some benefits were paid from the fund. The amount was about 2% of the fund in 2011, less that the interest being earned.

Anyone that says "S.S. is bankrupt" or "there is nothing in the fund" is showing their ignorance.

S.S. has real problems. Very soon S.S. payroll taxes will not be enough to cover the benefit checks so we will start drawing enough from the trust fund to pay benefits. Sometime in the 2030's, not sure of the year, there will be no assets left in the fund. So what will happens to S.S? Benefits will continue to be paid out the S.S. payroll taxes, however the benefits will be reduced by about 25% possibly a bit more. This is the S.S. problem. It has little or nothing to do with the deficit. S.S is considered off budget, so there is no line item in budget to be cut.

Social Security history Frequently Asked Questions

 

[Toro]

There is no "locked box". There never was. Congress started spending FICA taxes as soon as the entitlement was created and LBJ made it "legal" with a presidential authorization.

If by lock-box, you mean cash sitting in an account invested in nothing, then no there has never been a lock-box and for good reason. Most of the 2 trillion dollars in assets in the fund comes from interest earned on investments in treasuries bonds. Typically the fund earns 50 or 60 billion a year.

By law social security payroll taxes go to the treasury where benefits checks are issued. Any remaining funds must be deposited in the trust fund. Most of the funds assets are then invested in US treasury bonds and special issue treasury bonds. Any other use of the funds is illegal.

In most years there is sufficient payroll taxes coming in to pay all benefits, therefore as bonds mature, the proceeds are reinvested in order to maximize interest payments to the fund. Once in the 1980's and in 2010 and 2011, payroll taxes were insufficient to cover benefit payments therefor some benefits were paid from the fund. The amount was about 2% of the fund in 2011, less that the interest being earned.

Anyone that says "S.S. is bankrupt" or "there is nothing in the fund" is showing their ignorance.

S.S. has real problems. Very soon S.S. payroll taxes will not be enough to cover the benefit checks so we will start drawing enough from the trust fund to pay benefits. Sometime in the 2030's, not sure of the year, there will be no assets left in the fund. So what will happens to S.S? Benefits will continue to be paid out the S.S. payroll taxes, however the benefits will be reduced by about 25% possibly a bit more. This is the S.S. problem. It has little or nothing to do with the deficit. S.S is considered off budget, so there is no line item in budget to be cut.

Social Security history Frequently Asked Questions

Social security does not own Treasury bonds. Treasury bonds are marketable bonds that can be bought and sold. Social security owns nonmarketable government liabilities that cannot be bought and sold.

 

[Flopper]

There is no "locked box". There never was. Congress started spending FICA taxes as soon as the entitlement was created and LBJ made it "legal" with a presidential authorization.

If by lock-box, you mean cash sitting in an account invested in nothing, then no there has never been a lock-box and for good reason. Most of the 2 trillion dollars in assets in the fund comes from interest earned on investments in treasuries bonds. Typically the fund earns 50 or 60 billion a year.

By law social security payroll taxes go to the treasury where benefits checks are issued. Any remaining funds must be deposited in the trust fund. Most of the funds assets are then invested in US treasury bonds and special issue treasury bonds. Any other use of the funds is illegal.

In most years there is sufficient payroll taxes coming in to pay all benefits, therefore as bonds mature, the proceeds are reinvested in order to maximize interest payments to the fund. Once in the 1980's and in 2010 and 2011, payroll taxes were insufficient to cover benefit payments therefor some benefits were paid from the fund. The amount was about 2% of the fund in 2011, less that the interest being earned.

Anyone that says "S.S. is bankrupt" or "there is nothing in the fund" is showing their ignorance.

S.S. has real problems. Very soon S.S. payroll taxes will not be enough to cover the benefit checks so we will start drawing enough from the trust fund to pay benefits. Sometime in the 2030's, not sure of the year, there will be no assets left in the fund. So what will happens to S.S? Benefits will continue to be paid out the S.S. payroll taxes, however the benefits will be reduced by about 25% possibly a bit more. This is the S.S. problem. It has little or nothing to do with the deficit. S.S is considered off budget, so there is no line item in budget to be cut.

Social Security history Frequently Asked Questions

Social security does not own Treasury bonds. Treasury bonds are marketable bonds that can be bought and sold. Social security owns nonmarketable government liabilities that cannot be bought and sold.

They are also referred to by S.S. as Special Issue Treasury Bonds. They are not marketable because the fund is not allowed to sell them. This does not mean they have no value. They have a face value payable at maturity like any other bond. Private placement bonds used by businesses, large and small are not marketed but that certainly doesn't mean they lack value.

According to S.S, there are only two differences between Special Issue Treasury Bonds and Ordinary Treasury Bonds. Special issues bonds can be redeemed at any time by the fund. Unlike ordinary treasuries, the government can not default on these bonds without an act of Congress. This makes the bonds safer from default than ordinary treasuries.

BTW I think a lot people are unaware that the S.S. trust fund is only 1 of 18 trusts managed by the treasury with a total asset value of 2.5 trillion. To my knowledge all of these funds are invested in US debt. These are just 18 of 230 government trust funds. The other funds are not managed by the treasury and there is little information on the Net about them. I think one of them is an Indian trust fund but I haven't found anything else. I wonder what these funds might be.

 

[ShackledNation]

Most of the 2 trillion dollars in assets in the fund comes from interest earned on investments in treasuries bonds. Typically the fund earns 50 or 60 billion a year.

And that interest comes from...TAXES! Those treasury bonds are paid for by...TAXES! It is a ponzi scheme. Government taxes us. It invests those tax dollars into itself. Then it spends that invested money. It then has to pay back the money at a later date with interest. Investing money in Treasuries means giving government money to spend. When the government has to pay back to treasury to itself so it can give it back to retirees, it has to use revenue from taxes.

WAKE UP!