Sodom and Gomorrah

[ABikerSailor]

Did I actually read up there somewhere that the Apostle Paul never met Jesus? Boy somebody doesn't know their Bible, huh.

Paul in fact was on a personal mission to eradicate followers of Christ from the entire Earth UNTIL he met Jesus and was completely turned around. (Book of Acts) As one of the most prolific missionaries establishing churches across the near East, Northern Africa, and Europe, in letters that he wrote to the churches he produced the largest collection of manuscripts that we have in the New Testament (though all attributed to him were probably not actually written by him.) An interesting character.

But again to understand Paul, you have to read the text through his eyes and experience or you'll get it wrong.

That works on the assumption that the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke is an accurate account. As compared to the other versions of the same stories...

Paul didn't encounter Jesus before the Assencion, so he didn't meet Jesus.

For myself, I personally doubt Jesus was a flesh and blood person to start with. Paul's Epistles are the earliest Christian writings we have, but they lack many of the biographical details of the Gospels. No mention of Pilate, Herod, Mary Magalene, the Virgin Mary, etc.

Then you get the Gospels, and the four that were picked contradict each other on a lot of key points. Was Jesus born in the time of Herod the Great (died 4 BC) or when Cyrneus (Quirenius) was governor of Judea (6 AD)

Okay..........

Paul the Apostle (c. AD 5 – c. AD 67; variously referred to as the "Apostle Paul" or "Saint Paul"),[2] also known as Saul of Tarsus, is described in the Christian New Testament as one of the most influential early Christian missionaries, with the writings ascribed to him by the church forming a considerable portion of the New Testament. The influence on Christian thinking of the epistles ascribed to him has been significant,[3] due in part to his association as a prominent apostle of Christianity during the spreading of the Gospel through early Christian communities across the Roman Empire.

According to the writings in the New Testament, Paul was known as Saul prior to his conversion, and was dedicated to the persecution of the early disciples of Jesus in the area of Jerusalem.[4] While traveling from Jerusalem to Damascus on a mission to "bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem", the resurrected Jesus appeared to him in a great light. Saul was struck blind, but after three days his sight was restored by Ananias of Damascus, and Paul began to preach that Jesus of Nazareth is the Jewish Messiah and the Son of God.[5]

Paul the Apostle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even though he met the resurrected Jesus, he STILL met Him.

 

[Ropey]

It's for the priests to give/teach the people. God's people.

Jesus came so that not just the Jews, but ALL may be saved.

We are all Spiritual Jews, aka brothers and sisters under Christ.

We are all now God's people...if we choose to be.

The message applies to all who are followers of Christ and believers in Got the Creator.

You do realize that...don't you?

When the time comes you might realize it....

or not Marc...

No one knows for sure... Not even your hairdresser.

God the Creator does not leave His people in darkness nor in a state of confusion. That is not the God we serve.

We have his Word available to us and it's our responsibility to study it and to know it.

With that said, we can come to know Him and everything we need to know to do His will by studying His Word.

And you presume to tell all the other 'mansions' how it goes?

That's your personal intention. Not mine. I await H-s will.

 

[Foxfyre]

You are dealing with four separate eye witness accounts in the Gospels. Anytime in any period of history you are reading the memory of human beings, there will be differences in the recall. Among the synoptics there is content in Matthew and content in Luke that is found nowhere else. Almost all of the content of Mark is found in the two others. Matthew and Luke sometimes disagree with each other and also with Mark, but in no place do they agree with each other against Mark. It is a fascinating thing to study.

But that's the point, they weren't "eyewitness" accounts. Even the Churches admit that Luke and Mark never met Jesus. They try to claim that Matthew and John were the apostles by the same names, but that is questionable, at best.

Let's look at the fact that 90% of Mark is repeated in Luke and/or Matthew. That would kind of make sense, it was the earliest of the four. Matt and Luke were writing for different audiences and embellished. So they are just expansions on Mark. But going back to Mark, what is clear is that this guy never set foot in Judea. For instance, Mark states that Jesus said a woman who gets a divorce and marries again is committing a sin. Big problem. Women in Judea couldn't get divorces. Only the men could. Greek and Roman women could. He gets geographical details of Judea wrong.

All of this implies that he is rehashing vague stories about a guy named Jesus a century after the fact.

I don't think you read what I wrote. But again, you are reading through 21st century eyes and not through the eyes of those who wrote the text. There are MANY theories of who Matthew, Mark, and Luke were and also many understandings of the source(s) of the content. If you look for reasons to discredit the Bible you will find them. If you look for contradictions they will be there. If you look for what seems to be error of fact, it is there too. If you look for ways to shake the faith of the faithful, you will be able to find and/or make up plenty of ammunition.

But at the end of the day, there is more to back up the history of the Bible than there is to dispute it. Neither the people of the Old Testament or of the New Testament had benefit of video cameras, recorders, or even somebody following people around taking notes.

If you and I and 100 other people sat down and each individually wrote his/her recollections of the day that Kennedy was shot or the events of 9/11 without any way to look up any information, we each would remember a lot. And we would each get some facts wrong, get some names wrong, and get some facts out of sequence. Some would remember some things that others wouldn't. It is likely that not one of us would remember every single thing that happened. But at the end of the day, if four editors divided up the manuscripts and each pieced their stack together into one document, you would have four documents with many similarities, some contradictions, some errors of facts, and lots of the real deal. And you would also get a very good sense of the character, flavor, imagery, and events.

Most Bible Scholars believe The Synoptic Gospels and in fact a lot of the Old and New Testament were compiled in very much that way.

Proof texting the Bible is not a good way to either make a point or try to discredit one.

 

[Newby]

Ugh... JoeB, you seem to forever be blending realities. You cannot disprove God with you refusal to acknowledge He represents better than your personal experiences have thus far been. Perhaps you only need a new way of understanding?

Disease and death can be the tools used to prove Him, just as they seem to have been what disproved Him for you. My uncle passed away druggedon morphine with bone cancer. Within a month later his wife, my aunt passed on with cancer, but more prepared and seemingly impatient... It was always a marker for me... Reminding me that some people do marry beyond that which is physically evident.

You misunderstand me... God didn't make mom better because there WAS no God.

Never was.

And realizing that this nasty, evil old nun who prayed to an imaginary sky friend her whole life because she couldn't handle being a lesbian was completely full of shit was totally liberating. No god worth his salt would have IDIOTS like these trying to defend him.

There is no God. Once I realized that, everything in life became a lot simpler. No more having to reconcile ridiculous stories in the bible. They are just stories, written by stupid savages that have no basis on my life at all.

Great! So that should be the end, should it not? Yet you still feel the need to call out those who still do believe and belittle their beliefs. Why is that if you're now 'enlightened' and at peace with yourself? Apparently you're not.

 

[Newby]

The story of Sodom and Gommorah has been misused. Have you ever walked past a person who was looking for a handout and totally ignored them? I hate to say it, but I know I have. If you have too, then, in a way, we are both guilty of the sin of Sodom. The sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, as has been taught: it was inhospitality.

Inhospitality is what you do to me, FF. Make me unwelcome to debate you. It is unkindness to strangers.

It's a story about lust and excess and doing something to only gain physical pleasure and leaving the heart out of the equation. Christianity has never promised a life without consequences, Jesus certainly never promised that. This thread was started with the premise that if God were 'good' then regardless of human action, everyone would live in paradise for eternity. There would be no consequences. The Bible has never stated any such thing, God never promised any such thing. If one wants to argue that God is 'bad' or 'evil' because there is the consequence of permanent death for heartless behavior, then more power to them. Unfortunately their argument is wrong, and the stories in the Bible certainly show that.

 

[Foxfyre]

The story of Sodom and Gommorah has been misused. Have you ever walked past a person who was looking for a handout and totally ignored them? I hate to say it, but I know I have. If you have too, then, in a way, we are both guilty of the sin of Sodom. The sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, as has been taught: it was inhospitality.

Inhospitality is what you do to me, FF. Make me unwelcome to debate you. It is unkindness to strangers.

It's a story about lust and excess and doing something to only gain physical pleasure and leaving the heart out of the equation. Christianity has never promised a life without consequences, Jesus certainly never promised that. This thread was started with the premise that if God were 'good' then regardless of human action, everyone would live in paradise for eternity. There would be no consequences. The Bible has never stated any such thing, God never promised any such thing. If one wants to argue that God is 'bad' or 'evil' because there is the consequence of permanent death for heartless behavior, then more power to them. Unfortunately their argument is wrong, and the stories in the Bible certainly show that.

From the original personal sin in the Garden of Eden story to the spread of sin into the family in the story of Cain and Abel to the spread of sin into the community in the story of Noah to the spread of sin into the whole world in the story of the Tower of Babel, we see that sin has consequences. Sin hurts those who sin and/or others and spoils God's perfect creation. The more sin, the less perfect things will be and the more people will be hurt. That is why sin is bad and why God is against it.

The ultimate consequence of sin of course is total destruction as illustrated by the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Those who look for the deeper intent and meaning in the Bible will find a rich resource of instruction, insight, and yes, hope too that all isn't hopeless when we finally take the hint.

 

[MarcATL]

I wouldn't want to worship that kind of sadist, and I take great comfort in his non-existence.

Is it not fair to identify that statement as the pride JoeB is taking in what he's saying?

What is your point, here, guy?

I wouldn't call it pride as much as certitude. I simply refuse to believe the universe is that badly designed.

My point wasn't to say or imply that you're some prideful jerk. I see how it could have come off as that. It was to point out that you are willfully doing it, and using your own words, certain. So we'll stick with that, you're certain of your disdain and disbelief of God.

By your own definition, most of us are going to the same Hell Adolf Hitler is in, for the same "eternal" punishment, even if our horrible sin was not believing in the right sky pixie, not having the right kind of sex, or for those Catholics in the room, just thinking naughty thoughts.

"By [my] own definition?" I'm not sure what I said that defined that per se, but OK. BTW, I understand how you could have such a horrible understanding of God and/or the Bible. You were brought up Catholic. Not to disparage any of our sincere Catholic brethren on here, but that religion is just all kinds of wrong. Without getting too deep I'll go into a few of how they are totally off the mark. Firstly, they believe in an earthly High Priest, which is in the form of a the Pope. Scripture clearly states that we have ONE High Priest, which is Christ Jesus who came and died for our sins. And no man cometh to the Father but by the Son. So the Catholic Church is clearly in opposition to the Scripture here. Secondly, they believe that the Pope is infallible, which is to say perfect. Scripture clearly states that there is and was only one perfect human being that walked this earth and that was Jesus Christ. Yet, Catholics preach and teach otherwise. That's how you will see that the Pope has been "given authority" to even change the Bible (read declare which laws we should or shouldn't follow any more) Thirdly, they believe in veneration of the saints. Which is to say that to to truly worship God they have to go through the dead saints aka Peter, Paul, John, etc. They've even elevated Mary, Jesus' mother to Saint-hood, so they can worship God through her. Scripture clearly states that we are not to do that and that is an abomination to God. They are just all-kinds-of-wrong on that one. First of all, the dead can do nothing for us, for they are...dead. Moreover, we don't have to worship through anyone or anything to get to God. We can worship Him directly. We have access to God through His Son Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is breaking one of the 10 Commandments with their worship practice by elevating the "saints," as they are essentially creating false God. You will notice their use of beads and rosaries and "Hail Maries." I mean, non of that is rooted in Biblical worship. In fact, those worship styles and rituals are steeply rooted in Pagan worship. Look it up if you wish. And those things are just touching the tip of the iceberg BTW. So yes, I understand how you would be so misinformed and angry at the type of god you would learn under such an apostate organization. It only makes sense.

Yup, one of the fun aspects of Catholicism. Thinking about a sin was just as bad as committing one. If you thought about feeling Mary Sue up, it was just as bad as if you felt her up!

Ah yes, the Catholic "interpretation" strikes again. It's not just thinking about sin, but its about dwelling on sin. Again, we as humans are not perfect, we are sinners, we will sin, however, we aren't to dwell on it. If your thoughts happen across something evil, like stealing of lust, etc. we shouldn't allow it to dwell in our minds and hearts. That's what that concept is all about.

Oh, I mean the Catholics had some stuff in there about Purgatory and Limbo, which were alternative hells for the not quite so naughty....

Again, none of this is Biblical. More Paganism that has been introduced and injected into Christianity by the Catholic Church. You find a Scripture that talks about purgatory.

But you know, if you're not Hitler, I just don't see eternal punishment for a finite sin being just.

I know the Catholics have this belief in an eternal hell. Again, a myth. Hell is not eternal. Hitler is not in hell. He's dead and gone and awaiting his judgement when Christ returns, just like all the other dead souls and just like we all will once, we too, expire. What I'm saying is backed up by Scripture and I've shown how the Catholic Church's teachings and beliefs are not.

You've been hoodwinked by that organization and it has clouded and perverted your entire concept of God and Christianity. Just as was planned.

 

[MarcATL]

The story of Sodom and Gommorah has been misused. Have you ever walked past a person who was looking for a handout and totally ignored them? I hate to say it, but I know I have. If you have too, then, in a way, we are both guilty of the sin of Sodom. The sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, as has been taught: it was inhospitality.

Inhospitality is what you do to me, FF. Make me unwelcome to debate you. It is unkindness to strangers.

It's a story about lust and excess and doing something to only gain physical pleasure and leaving the heart out of the equation. Christianity has never promised a life without consequences, Jesus certainly never promised that. This thread was started with the premise that if God were 'good' then regardless of human action, everyone would live in paradise for eternity. There would be no consequences. The Bible has never stated any such thing, God never promised any such thing. If one wants to argue that God is 'bad' or 'evil' because there is the consequence of permanent death for heartless behavior, then more power to them. Unfortunately their argument is wrong, and the stories in the Bible certainly show that.

Amen!

The story of Sodom and Gommorah has been misused. Have you ever walked past a person who was looking for a handout and totally ignored them? I hate to say it, but I know I have. If you have too, then, in a way, we are both guilty of the sin of Sodom. The sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, as has been taught: it was inhospitality.

Inhospitality is what you do to me, FF. Make me unwelcome to debate you. It is unkindness to strangers.

It's a story about lust and excess and doing something to only gain physical pleasure and leaving the heart out of the equation. Christianity has never promised a life without consequences, Jesus certainly never promised that. This thread was started with the premise that if God were 'good' then regardless of human action, everyone would live in paradise for eternity. There would be no consequences. The Bible has never stated any such thing, God never promised any such thing. If one wants to argue that God is 'bad' or 'evil' because there is the consequence of permanent death for heartless behavior, then more power to them. Unfortunately their argument is wrong, and the stories in the Bible certainly show that.

From the original personal sin in the Garden of Eden story to the spread of sin into the family in the story of Cain and Abel to the spread of sin into the community in the story of Noah to the spread of sin into the whole world in the story of the Tower of Babel, we see that sin has consequences. Sin hurts those who sin and/or others and spoils God's perfect creation. The more sin, the less perfect things will be and the more people will be hurt. That is why sin is bad and why God is against it.

The ultimate consequence of sin of course is total destruction as illustrated by the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Those who look for the deeper intent and meaning in the Bible will find a rich resource of instruction, insight, and yes, hope too that all isn't hopeless when we finally take the hint.

And Amen!!

 

[Dr.Drock]

The Bible speaks about arguing with a fool.

There comes a point and time when the believer has to recognize when it becomes pointless and even negative to "debate" with an unbeliever.

Clearly JoeB started out this thread with an agenda, to attack God and the Bible, and he's very happy with himself over it. He's not going to change his position, as he's not sincerely trying to understand God or the Bible. Simply strengthen his own predetermined beliefs and biases.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised this thread is still going on.

Happy Sabbath guys.

I've never seen this before.

A non-believer asks a question about a holy book, and the believer attacks the non-believer for simply asking the question rather than providing an answer.



This must be the first time in history this has ever happened.

 

[Newby]

The Bible speaks about arguing with a fool.

There comes a point and time when the believer has to recognize when it becomes pointless and even negative to "debate" with an unbeliever.

Clearly JoeB started out this thread with an agenda, to attack God and the Bible, and he's very happy with himself over it. He's not going to change his position, as he's not sincerely trying to understand God or the Bible. Simply strengthen his own predetermined beliefs and biases.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised this thread is still going on.

Happy Sabbath guys.

I've never seen this before.

A non-believer asks a question about a holy book, and the believer attacks the non-believer for simply asking the question rather than providing an answer.



This must be the first time in history this has ever happened.

The initial question was an attack on believers to begin with because of the vitriol used in the question, and I saw no attack in the post that you quoted.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The Bible speaks about arguing with a fool.

There comes a point and time when the believer has to recognize when it becomes pointless and even negative to "debate" with an unbeliever.

Clearly JoeB started out this thread with an agenda, to attack God and the Bible, and he's very happy with himself over it. He's not going to change his position, as he's not sincerely trying to understand God or the Bible. Simply strengthen his own predetermined beliefs and biases.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised this thread is still going on.

Happy Sabbath guys.

I've never seen this before.

A non-believer asks a question about a holy book, and the believer attacks the non-believer for simply asking the question rather than providing an answer.



This must be the first time in history this has ever happened.

Actually, they are attacking your cherry picking of just one situation from the Bible, and basing your whole view of Christians on the actions of just 1 situation.

But then again, I guess you learned that trick from the Christians who kept trying to convert you.

It didn't convert you, and it damn sure won't convert us to your way of thinking.

 

[Dr.Drock]

The Bible speaks about arguing with a fool.

There comes a point and time when the believer has to recognize when it becomes pointless and even negative to "debate" with an unbeliever.

Clearly JoeB started out this thread with an agenda, to attack God and the Bible, and he's very happy with himself over it. He's not going to change his position, as he's not sincerely trying to understand God or the Bible. Simply strengthen his own predetermined beliefs and biases.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised this thread is still going on.

Happy Sabbath guys.

I've never seen this before.

A non-believer asks a question about a holy book, and the believer attacks the non-believer for simply asking the question rather than providing an answer.



This must be the first time in history this has ever happened.

Actually, they are attacking your cherry picking of just one situation from the Bible, and basing your whole view of Christians on the actions of just 1 situation.

But then again, I guess you learned that trick from the Christians who kept trying to convert you.

It didn't convert you, and it damn sure won't convert us to your way of thinking.

I think you're mixing me up with another poster.

I don't care if every person on the planet is christian except me.

 

[JoeB131]

Great! So that should be the end, should it not? Yet you still feel the need to call out those who still do believe and belittle their beliefs. Why is that if you're now 'enlightened' and at peace with yourself? Apparently you're not.

And if you fools kept your stupidity in your houses and churches, I'd have no problem with you.

When you come out in public with that silliness- expect to get mocked. Mercilessly.

 

[JoeB131]

I wouldn't want to worship that kind of sadist, and I take great comfort in his non-existence.

Is it not fair to identify that statement as the pride JoeB is taking in what he's saying?

My point wasn't to say or imply that you're some prideful jerk. I see how it could have come off as that. It was to point out that you are willfully doing it, and using your own words, certain. So we'll stick with that, you're certain of your disdain and disbelief of God.

"By [my] own definition?" I'm not sure what I said that defined that per se, but OK. BTW, I understand how you could have such a horrible understanding of God and/or the Bible. You were brought up Catholic. Not to disparage any of our sincere Catholic brethren on here, but that religion is just all kinds of wrong. Without getting too deep I'll go into a few of how they are totally off the mark. Firstly, they believe in an earthly High Priest, which is in the form of a the Pope. Scripture clearly states that we have ONE High Priest, which is Christ Jesus who came and died for our sins. And no man cometh to the Father but by the Son. So the Catholic Church is clearly in opposition to the Scripture here. Secondly, they believe that the Pope is infallible, which is to say perfect. Scripture clearly states that there is and was only one perfect human being that walked this earth and that was Jesus Christ. Yet, Catholics preach and teach otherwise. That's how you will see that the Pope has been "given authority" to even change the Bible (read declare which laws we should or shouldn't follow any more) Thirdly, they believe in veneration of the saints. Which is to say that to to truly worship God they have to go through the dead saints aka Peter, Paul, John, etc. They've even elevated Mary, Jesus' mother to Saint-hood, so they can worship God through her. Scripture clearly states that we are not to do that and that is an abomination to God. They are just all-kinds-of-wrong on that one. First of all, the dead can do nothing for us, for they are...dead. Moreover, we don't have to worship through anyone or anything to get to God. We can worship Him directly. We have access to God through His Son Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church is breaking one of the 10 Commandments with their worship practice by elevating the "saints," as they are essentially creating false God. You will notice their use of beads and rosaries and "Hail Maries." I mean, non of that is rooted in Biblical worship. In fact, those worship styles and rituals are steeply rooted in Pagan worship. Look it up if you wish. And those things are just touching the tip of the iceberg BTW. So yes, I understand how you would be so misinformed and angry at the type of god you would learn under such an apostate organization. It only makes sense.

Ah yes, the Catholic "interpretation" strikes again. It's not just thinking about sin, but its about dwelling on sin. Again, we as humans are not perfect, we are sinners, we will sin, however, we aren't to dwell on it. If your thoughts happen across something evil, like stealing of lust, etc. we shouldn't allow it to dwell in our minds and hearts. That's what that concept is all about.

Oh, I mean the Catholics had some stuff in there about Purgatory and Limbo, which were alternative hells for the not quite so naughty....

Again, none of this is Biblical. More Paganism that has been introduced and injected into Christianity by the Catholic Church. You find a Scripture that talks about purgatory.

But you know, if you're not Hitler, I just don't see eternal punishment for a finite sin being just.

I know the Catholics have this belief in an eternal hell. Again, a myth. Hell is not eternal. Hitler is not in hell. He's dead and gone and awaiting his judgement when Christ returns, just like all the other dead souls and just like we all will once, we too, expire. What I'm saying is backed up by Scripture and I've shown how the Catholic Church's teachings and beliefs are not.

You've been hoodwinked by that organization and it has clouded and perverted your entire concept of God and Christianity. Just as was planned.

I could do a point by point refutation of this, but I will make it simple.

Not sure what flavor of Christianity you belong to. However, the notion that anyone has got it more or less right than the Catholics, or worse, that Catholicism is part of Satan's evil plot to fool everyone is kind of silly.

Every flavor of Christian, from the Pope to David Koresh to the guy who runs the Westboro Baptist Church thinks his interpretation is the correct one, and they can cite the chapter and verse to back that up.

Which just tells me that if God had intended the bible as an instruction manual, he got it horribly wrong. By your interpretation, most Christians are getting it wrong.

Now, keep in mind, God is an infalliable being. He doesn't make mistakes. But the bible by your own defintion is full of them.

 

[MarcATL]

Great! So that should be the end, should it not? Yet you still feel the need to call out those who still do believe and belittle their beliefs. Why is that if you're now 'enlightened' and at peace with yourself? Apparently you're not.

And if you fools kept your stupidity in your houses and churches, I'd have no problem with you.

When you come out in public with that silliness- expect to get mocked. Mercilessly.

Here we go again. The anger, the vitriol, the lashing out.

It's almost as if something bad happened to you under the tutelage of The Catholic Church, something very bad.

Hopefully, time and the Holy Spirit will change your heart.

 

[JoeB131]

Great! So that should be the end, should it not? Yet you still feel the need to call out those who still do believe and belittle their beliefs. Why is that if you're now 'enlightened' and at peace with yourself? Apparently you're not.

And if you fools kept your stupidity in your houses and churches, I'd have no problem with you.

When you come out in public with that silliness- expect to get mocked. Mercilessly.

Here we go again. The anger, the vitriol, the lashing out.

It's almost as if something bad happened to you under the tutelage of The Catholic Church, something very bad.

Hopefully, time and the Holy Spirit will change your heart.

They told me a big honkin' fucking lie... which I believed until Mom died with a rosary clutched in her hand.

That's usually enough for me. One thing I can't stand, it's liars.

 

[Foxfyre]

You know Joe, if we mortals could figure God out, predict His every move or decision, know what he would do or what He was al about, He wouldn't be much of a God would He? He is God and we aren't. He sees and understands fully. We don't.

I am so sorry for your loss. I imagine most or all of us have lost loved ones, some in cruel ways, some long before they were 'supposed' to go. For me it is everybody in my mother and father's generation but one aunt who is still with us. This month was the anniversary of the death of my beloved cousin closer to me than any sister could be but who died suddenly and in her prime of life. And how we prayed and prayed for her to stay with us. It wasn't to be.

But I also believe the Bible when it says that a day to the Lord is like a thousand years for us. Our time on Earth is but a wink in eternity before the spirit moves on. I wish you could have comfort that your Mother was clutching that rosary. It brought her comfort, joy, and peace and she will tell you that herself sometime when it is your time to step into the next life.

Yes the Bible contains countless human errors and gives us a glaring image of human weakness and frailty. But there is one continuous theme that moves seamlessly from the Old Testament to the New Testament and that is God is with us and He sees us through whatever we have to face. And no matter how bad it seems now, it is never hopeless. Being angry with God is a very real part of the grief process. I think He handles that pretty well too.

 

[JoeB131]

You know Joe, if we mortals could figure God out, predict His every move or decision, know what he would do or what He was al about, He wouldn't be much of a God would He? He is God and we aren't. He sees and understands fully. We don't.

I am so sorry for your loss. I imagine most or all of us have lost loved ones, some in cruel ways, some long before they were 'supposed' to go. For me it is everybody in my mother and father's generation but one aunt who is still with us. This month was the anniversary of the death of my beloved cousin closer to me than any sister could be but who died suddenly and in her prime of life. And how we prayed and prayed for her to stay with us. It wasn't to be.

But I also believe the Bible when it says that a day to the Lord is like a thousand years for us. Our time on Earth is but a wink in eternity before the spirit moves on. I wish you could have comfort that your Mother was clutching that rosary. It brought her comfort, joy, and peace and she will tell you that herself sometime when it is your time to step into the next life.

Yes the Bible contains countless human errors and gives us a glaring image of human weakness and frailty. But there is one continuous theme that moves seamlessly from the Old Testament to the New Testament and that is God is with us and He sees us through whatever we have to face. And no matter how bad it seems now, it is never hopeless. Being angry with God is a very real part of the grief process. I think He handles that pretty well too.

Sorry, if something sounds retarded to me, I don't assume that there is some great wisdom I'm not getting. In fact, I find any such suggestions sort of insulting.

The bible is the scribblings of superstitious brozne age savages. Period.

 

[Newby]

Great! So that should be the end, should it not? Yet you still feel the need to call out those who still do believe and belittle their beliefs. Why is that if you're now 'enlightened' and at peace with yourself? Apparently you're not.

And if you fools kept your stupidity in your houses and churches, I'd have no problem with you.

When you come out in public with that silliness- expect to get mocked. Mercilessly.

Well, the problem here is that your mockery is meaningless to me, you just make a fool of yourself. But, as Marc said, you obviously have problems, so I will pray that you find healing. Compassion for others is a gift from God, and you need it in abundance.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Speaking of the Garden of Eden story. Does anyone really believe in a talking serpent?

If the Garden of Eden story is not true, and there is no original sin, the whole need for a savior disappears.

The whole of Christianity hangs on the Garden of Eden story.