Stand and fight!

[kaz]

Right, it was just a coincidence it was shot down less than three months after they killed Bin Laden.

You libs will believe anything.

Thousand of Americans were killed when we invaded Iraq.

You folks were pretty mum back then or said "Stay the course".

Now? Each and every American matters.

Wonder why that is..

I wonder why each and every time we demonstrate the incompetence of DumBama, the response by the left is "BUT BUSH..... BUT BUSH...."

It's Obama that's been competently cleaning up the outrageous incompetence of George W. Bush.

You folks seem to have collective amnesia about what a disaster he left behind.

Yep he's got the JV team contained,the ME is finally coming around,the Russians, aren't probing soft spots around the globe, china is a fair trade partner,with both economies growing,durable goods order up.

The "JV Team" is a result of the Bush Christian Oil Crusades in the Middle East. The Russians are following the Bush Doctrine. The Chinese are benefitting from Reagan and Bush's economic policies.

Why is it when you folks screw things up you like to blame the results on other people? What happened to personal responsibility?

So BonzO calls ISIS the JV team, and you still think it's Republicans who don't have a clue...

 

[kaz]

Why should they? When did providing a "living wage" become their responsibility?

See, in the olden days, if you didn't make enough money, it was your fault, not Walmart's. Why? Because Walmart nor McDonald's drafts people into their business. They advertise and take job applications to those that are willing to accept the job. Nobody is forcing them to work at those places.

It's not up to McDonald's or Walmart to make you worth more money, that's up to you.

Sallow already hit this, but it's worth hitting again.

Back in the old days, we had UNIONS. If WalMart wasn't treating their workers right, the unionized and put up picket lines around their stores and most people refused to cross a picket line and shop there.

Of course, working in retail is what your teenager or your wife did, because you were bringing home a good salary from a factory that had a good union wage.

But then you Wingnuts got your Free Trade, you got "Right to Work", you got "At-Will Employment", you got rules that said you could lay people off and not have to rehire them when you needed employees again.

So essentially, the social mobility you talk about, people on your side have been dismantling for 40 years now. and they did it because they got STUPID PEOPLE like you upset about the Gays and the Abortions and the Guns.

But a funny thing happened. Those working class folks who aren't making enough money. They just fu cking refuse to fucking starve like they are supposed to. NOpe, they go to the government and they sign up for the food stamps and the medicaid and the Section 8 housing.

And when the Democrats are doing more for you for a single vote once every four years than your employer does for you, guess where your loyalty is going to be?

Yes, I remember unions. Weren't unions those people that chased all our jobs out of the country because of their outrageous demands that made it too costly for American companies to do business in America?

See, in the olden days, if you didn't make enough money, you found work that paid better money, worked two jobs, or otherwise worked six days a week. Today, if your job doesn't pay enough money, it's the jobs fault--not yours.

It's the jobs fault you didn't stay in school or went after a higher education. It's the jobs fault you didn't seek a trade to get into, open up your own business, or make bad decisions like starting a family before you could afford one. It's the jobs fault you went on public assistance because you didn't have the intelligence to do anything but a monkeys job.

"If you have a party that promotes irresponsibility, don't be surprised when you create more irresponsible people."
Rush Limbaugh

In fairness, it wasn't "unions" that caused that, it was government giving unions artificial power that did that. Free market unions would be good for the economy. I doubt you disagree with that

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And to think, seven years of leaderships and it only got worse. Imagine that!

defined by what?

ONly 14 Americans were killed by Terrorists last year, most of them OUTSIDE the United States.

Compared to 11,000 gun homicides by Second Amendment Enthusiasts.

Let's not confuse other people's problems with our own.

ISIS was there since the end of the Clinton administration. They didn't get involved until Iraq, but they've been active long after Saddam was toppled, and certainly throughout the entire Obama administration.

 

[kaz]

And to think, seven years of leaderships and it only got worse. Imagine that!

defined by what?

ONly 14 Americans were killed by Terrorists last year, most of them OUTSIDE the United States.

Compared to 11,000 gun homicides by Second Amendment Enthusiasts.

Let's not confuse other people's problems with our own.

ISIS was there since the end of the Clinton administration. They didn't get involved until Iraq, but they've been active long after Saddam was toppled, and certainly throughout the entire Obama administration.

Democrats voted for Iraq, voted for Afghanistan, then Obama finished W's strategy in Iraq and expanded Afghanistan while toppling Libya and trying to topple Assad before Putin out flanked him. Then Democrats chastise Republicans for not having learned anything. It's un freaking believable

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

In fairness, it wasn't "unions" that caused that, it was government giving unions artificial power that did that. Free market unions would be good for the economy. I doubt you disagree with that

Maybe just Maybe this has to do with it...without workers getting $$ they cannot help the consumer economy grow....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why should they? When did providing a "living wage" become their responsibility?

See, in the olden days, if you didn't make enough money, it was your fault, not Walmart's. Why? Because Walmart nor McDonald's drafts people into their business. They advertise and take job applications to those that are willing to accept the job. Nobody is forcing them to work at those places.

It's not up to McDonald's or Walmart to make you worth more money, that's up to you.

Sallow already hit this, but it's worth hitting again.

Back in the old days, we had UNIONS. If WalMart wasn't treating their workers right, the unionized and put up picket lines around their stores and most people refused to cross a picket line and shop there.

Of course, working in retail is what your teenager or your wife did, because you were bringing home a good salary from a factory that had a good union wage.

But then you Wingnuts got your Free Trade, you got "Right to Work", you got "At-Will Employment", you got rules that said you could lay people off and not have to rehire them when you needed employees again.

So essentially, the social mobility you talk about, people on your side have been dismantling for 40 years now. and they did it because they got STUPID PEOPLE like you upset about the Gays and the Abortions and the Guns.

But a funny thing happened. Those working class folks who aren't making enough money. They just fu cking refuse to fucking starve like they are supposed to. NOpe, they go to the government and they sign up for the food stamps and the medicaid and the Section 8 housing.

And when the Democrats are doing more for you for a single vote once every four years than your employer does for you, guess where your loyalty is going to be?

Yes, I remember unions. Weren't unions those people that chased all our jobs out of the country because of their outrageous demands that made it too costly for American companies to do business in America?

See, in the olden days, if you didn't make enough money, you found work that paid better money, worked two jobs, or otherwise worked six days a week. Today, if your job doesn't pay enough money, it's the jobs fault--not yours.

It's the jobs fault you didn't stay in school or went after a higher education. It's the jobs fault you didn't seek a trade to get into, open up your own business, or make bad decisions like starting a family before you could afford one. It's the jobs fault you went on public assistance because you didn't have the intelligence to do anything but a monkeys job.

"If you have a party that promotes irresponsibility, don't be surprised when you create more irresponsible people."
Rush Limbaugh

In fairness, it wasn't "unions" that caused that, it was government giving unions artificial power that did that. Free market unions would be good for the economy. I doubt you disagree with that

I don't disagree, but what good were unions without government power?

It's like I've always said, I could make a delivery to a place I had no knowledge of, and I could tell you within ten minutes if it was a union shop or not. It's not a gift, just observance.

Non-union workers actually worked. They would take an interest in their job and try to perform it the best they could. Union guys? You could sit there half of the day and they could care less.

I went to a place about seven years ago. When I pulled in, the shipper got disgusted because he had to stop packing orders to unload my truck. So I asked what his new helper did?

He said his helper was worthless because the guy refused to drive a tow motor; he was scared of it. So I asked another question: if the guy can't do the shipping job, why is he in shipping and receiving? His response was seniority. He had the most years with the union so he got the job.

I suggested that he complain to his union about his worthless helper. At that point, he turned off the tow motor and said this to me "I could take this tow motor, drive it right through the front of your trailer, and because I'm in a union, I would still have my job tomorrow. But if I went to the union and told them that another union member wasn't doing their job, I would be fired that minute." He then started the tow motor and finished unloading me.

I have dozens of stories just like that one. That's why I'm so anti-union.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

I am anti Police Union myself............

 

[kaz]

Why should they? When did providing a "living wage" become their responsibility?

See, in the olden days, if you didn't make enough money, it was your fault, not Walmart's. Why? Because Walmart nor McDonald's drafts people into their business. They advertise and take job applications to those that are willing to accept the job. Nobody is forcing them to work at those places.

It's not up to McDonald's or Walmart to make you worth more money, that's up to you.

Sallow already hit this, but it's worth hitting again.

Back in the old days, we had UNIONS. If WalMart wasn't treating their workers right, the unionized and put up picket lines around their stores and most people refused to cross a picket line and shop there.

Of course, working in retail is what your teenager or your wife did, because you were bringing home a good salary from a factory that had a good union wage.

But then you Wingnuts got your Free Trade, you got "Right to Work", you got "At-Will Employment", you got rules that said you could lay people off and not have to rehire them when you needed employees again.

So essentially, the social mobility you talk about, people on your side have been dismantling for 40 years now. and they did it because they got STUPID PEOPLE like you upset about the Gays and the Abortions and the Guns.

But a funny thing happened. Those working class folks who aren't making enough money. They just fu cking refuse to fucking starve like they are supposed to. NOpe, they go to the government and they sign up for the food stamps and the medicaid and the Section 8 housing.

And when the Democrats are doing more for you for a single vote once every four years than your employer does for you, guess where your loyalty is going to be?

Yes, I remember unions. Weren't unions those people that chased all our jobs out of the country because of their outrageous demands that made it too costly for American companies to do business in America?

See, in the olden days, if you didn't make enough money, you found work that paid better money, worked two jobs, or otherwise worked six days a week. Today, if your job doesn't pay enough money, it's the jobs fault--not yours.

It's the jobs fault you didn't stay in school or went after a higher education. It's the jobs fault you didn't seek a trade to get into, open up your own business, or make bad decisions like starting a family before you could afford one. It's the jobs fault you went on public assistance because you didn't have the intelligence to do anything but a monkeys job.

"If you have a party that promotes irresponsibility, don't be surprised when you create more irresponsible people."
Rush Limbaugh

In fairness, it wasn't "unions" that caused that, it was government giving unions artificial power that did that. Free market unions would be good for the economy. I doubt you disagree with that

I don't disagree, but what good were unions without government power?

It's like I've always said, I could make a delivery to a place I had no knowledge of, and I could tell you within ten minutes if it was a union shop or not. It's not a gift, just observance.

Non-union workers actually worked. They would take an interest in their job and try to perform it the best they could. Union guys? You could sit there half of the day and they could care less.

I went to a place about seven years ago. When I pulled in, the shipper got disgusted because he had to stop packing orders to unload my truck. So I asked what his new helper did?

He said his helper was worthless because the guy refused to drive a tow motor; he was scared of it. So I asked another question: if the guy can't do the shipping job, why is he in shipping and receiving? His response was seniority. He had the most years with the union so he got the job.

I suggested that he complain to his union about his worthless helper. At that point, he turned off the tow motor and said this to me "I could take this tow motor, drive it right through the front of your trailer, and because I'm in a union, I would still have my job tomorrow. But if I went to the union and told them that another union member wasn't doing their job, I would be fired that minute." He then started the tow motor and finished unloading me.

I have dozens of stories just like that one. That's why I'm so anti-union.

Well, low end workers would never have market power without artificial government power. However, voluntary unions can be far less confrontational with management. And high end workers, pilots, that sort of thing, can have legitimate market power and band together. With government out of it, they should have every right to put the screws to management. I support freedom, not management when it comes to government. And my career is in management and management consulting.

I'm not arguing at all with you, my view of the reality of unions is the same as yours. I'm just making that point that it was artificial power given to them by government guns that was the problem, not workers banding together. When government prevented their employers from replacing them, they lost perspective and didn't see how harming their employer was harming themselves and they kept getting more angry and belligerent.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, I remember unions. Weren't unions those people that chased all our jobs out of the country because of their outrageous demands that made it too costly for American companies to do business in America?

tell me, what were the unions demanding that was 'outrageous", exactly?

You are like the misogynistic whole blame a rape victim for wearing too short of a dress.

Sorry, living wages and safe working conditions are not "outrageous' demands.

See, in the olden days, if you didn't make enough money, you found work that paid better money, worked two jobs, or otherwise worked six days a week. Today, if your job doesn't pay enough money, it's the jobs fault--not yours.

No, it really is the fault of the 1% that controls 43% of the wealth and still doesn't think they have enough.

I'm sure you live in your Trailer Park in Cleveland and blame the bad old unions for the fact you make shitty wages and not the big corporations that moved your job to Mexico.

 

[JoeB131]

I am anti Police Union myself............

Of course you are. You'd much rather have Police officers thrown to the wolves without anyone standing up for them.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

I am anti Police Union myself............

Of course you are. You'd much rather have Police officers thrown to the wolves without anyone standing up for them.

My eyes are moist with tears....from laughter at you and Scott Walker.............

 

[JoeB131]

ISIS was there since the end of the Clinton administration. They didn't get involved until Iraq, but they've been active long after Saddam was toppled, and certainly throughout the entire Obama administration.

so how is it Obama's fault if they've been around since Clinton?

 

[JoeB131]

I am anti Police Union myself............

Of course you are. You'd much rather have Police officers thrown to the wolves without anyone standing up for them.

My eyes are moist with tears....from laughter at you and Scott Walker.............

yup, it's Democrats like you who make working class whites vote republican.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why should they? When did providing a "living wage" become their responsibility?

See, in the olden days, if you didn't make enough money, it was your fault, not Walmart's. Why? Because Walmart nor McDonald's drafts people into their business. They advertise and take job applications to those that are willing to accept the job. Nobody is forcing them to work at those places.

It's not up to McDonald's or Walmart to make you worth more money, that's up to you.

Sallow already hit this, but it's worth hitting again.

Back in the old days, we had UNIONS. If WalMart wasn't treating their workers right, the unionized and put up picket lines around their stores and most people refused to cross a picket line and shop there.

Of course, working in retail is what your teenager or your wife did, because you were bringing home a good salary from a factory that had a good union wage.

But then you Wingnuts got your Free Trade, you got "Right to Work", you got "At-Will Employment", you got rules that said you could lay people off and not have to rehire them when you needed employees again.

So essentially, the social mobility you talk about, people on your side have been dismantling for 40 years now. and they did it because they got STUPID PEOPLE like you upset about the Gays and the Abortions and the Guns.

But a funny thing happened. Those working class folks who aren't making enough money. They just fu cking refuse to fucking starve like they are supposed to. NOpe, they go to the government and they sign up for the food stamps and the medicaid and the Section 8 housing.

And when the Democrats are doing more for you for a single vote once every four years than your employer does for you, guess where your loyalty is going to be?

Yes, I remember unions. Weren't unions those people that chased all our jobs out of the country because of their outrageous demands that made it too costly for American companies to do business in America?

See, in the olden days, if you didn't make enough money, you found work that paid better money, worked two jobs, or otherwise worked six days a week. Today, if your job doesn't pay enough money, it's the jobs fault--not yours.

It's the jobs fault you didn't stay in school or went after a higher education. It's the jobs fault you didn't seek a trade to get into, open up your own business, or make bad decisions like starting a family before you could afford one. It's the jobs fault you went on public assistance because you didn't have the intelligence to do anything but a monkeys job.

"If you have a party that promotes irresponsibility, don't be surprised when you create more irresponsible people."
Rush Limbaugh

In fairness, it wasn't "unions" that caused that, it was government giving unions artificial power that did that. Free market unions would be good for the economy. I doubt you disagree with that

I don't disagree, but what good were unions without government power?

It's like I've always said, I could make a delivery to a place I had no knowledge of, and I could tell you within ten minutes if it was a union shop or not. It's not a gift, just observance.

Non-union workers actually worked. They would take an interest in their job and try to perform it the best they could. Union guys? You could sit there half of the day and they could care less.

I went to a place about seven years ago. When I pulled in, the shipper got disgusted because he had to stop packing orders to unload my truck. So I asked what his new helper did?

He said his helper was worthless because the guy refused to drive a tow motor; he was scared of it. So I asked another question: if the guy can't do the shipping job, why is he in shipping and receiving? His response was seniority. He had the most years with the union so he got the job.

I suggested that he complain to his union about his worthless helper. At that point, he turned off the tow motor and said this to me "I could take this tow motor, drive it right through the front of your trailer, and because I'm in a union, I would still have my job tomorrow. But if I went to the union and told them that another union member wasn't doing their job, I would be fired that minute." He then started the tow motor and finished unloading me.

I have dozens of stories just like that one. That's why I'm so anti-union.

Well, low end workers would never have market power without artificial government power. However, voluntary unions can be far less confrontational with management. And high end workers, pilots, that sort of thing, can have legitimate market power and band together. With government out of it, they should have every right to put the screws to management. I support freedom, not management when it comes to government. And my career is in management and management consulting.

I'm not arguing at all with you, my view of the reality of unions is the same as yours. I'm just making that point that it was artificial power given to them by government guns that was the problem, not workers banding together. When government prevented their employers from replacing them, they lost perspective and didn't see how harming their employer was harming themselves and they kept getting more angry and belligerent.

Oh no, I understand your point and all, it's just that because of the customers we lost not to mention the city and state because of unions, I just have a negative attitude towards them. With or without government, they are nothing but greedy SOB's that were only concerned about the money and what it meant to the union.

Even I would have to admit to their value at the beginning. But like anything else, they got too big and too strong and ended up doing more damage to this country than good.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

yup, it's Democrats like you who make working class whites vote republican.

Friends do not let friends drive drunk or vote Republican....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

ISIS was there since the end of the Clinton administration. They didn't get involved until Iraq, but they've been active long after Saddam was toppled, and certainly throughout the entire Obama administration.

so how is it Obama's fault if they've been around since Clinton?

Because he's done very little to combat them. He virtually handed over Iraq to ISIS because of political expediency. Every military adviser he had warned him about doing so, but it was nothing but politics to Obama. He didn't care.

Whether you agree or disagree with our involvement in Iraq, we lost a lot of American lives there only to be in vain because of one mans desire to live up to his Noble Peace Prize award and to insure reelection.

Benghazi may have been a mistake, but Iraq was deliberate.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't disagree, but what good were unions without government power?

It's like I've always said, I could make a delivery to a place I had no knowledge of, and I could tell you within ten minutes if it was a union shop or not. It's not a gift, just observance.

Non-union workers actually worked. They would take an interest in their job and try to perform it the best they could. Union guys? You could sit there half of the day and they could care less.

I went to a place about seven years ago. When I pulled in, the shipper got disgusted because he had to stop packing orders to unload my truck. So I asked what his new helper did?

He said his helper was worthless because the guy refused to drive a tow motor; he was scared of it. So I asked another question: if the guy can't do the shipping job, why is he in shipping and receiving? His response was seniority. He had the most years with the union so he got the job.

I suggested that he complain to his union about his worthless helper. At that point, he turned off the tow motor and said this to me "I could take this tow motor, drive it right through the front of your trailer, and because I'm in a union, I would still have my job tomorrow. But if I went to the union and told them that another union member wasn't doing their job, I would be fired that minute." He then started the tow motor and finished unloading me.

I have dozens of stories just like that one. That's why I'm so anti-union.

oh, now you see, i would have guessed that you wanted to be in a union and couldn't get into one.

frankly, I've seen loafing at union shops and non-union shops.

I've seen a guy who got a job because he was drinking buddies with the general manager. They fired a perfectly qualified black girl from our department to make a job for this guy. Every day, this guy and the managers go out and take two hour lunches, then take off at 3 PM while the rest of us are still working.

Same place, we had another girl who was in our department because they moved her over after she started sleeping with the manger in her previous department, until he traded her in for a younger model. She was absolutely flummoxed if she had to perform any task that required thinking through a problem. But she sucked up to management and she was protected.

I have dozens of stories like those of the kinds of abuses that go on in non-union shops due to nepotism, favoritism, and so on.

Now, here's the thing. I agree, unions have not kept up with the times. They've lost the plot. They probably made a lot more sense back in the old days when everyone didn't have cars and the employer of choice was the factory you could walk to or take a trolley to get to.

 

[JoeB131]

yup, it's Democrats like you who make working class whites vote republican.

Friends do not let friends drive drunk or vote Republican....

Guy, here's the thing. I don't think EITHER party represents the vast majority of Americans who punch a clock or work every day.

The Republicans represent the rich, the Democrats represent the slugs who want to sit on their asses all day and collect welfare.

Sadly, republican greed has made that second group a much larger political force.

 

[sealybobo]

We are all aware of the death and destruction radical Islamic terrorism has wrought all over the world. France is not the only victim. It is not the first, nor will it be the last.

But today, still, we all mourn the loss of life in Paris. It is just yet another reminder that not even the greatest nations on Earth are immune to the effects of terrorism. We Americans discovered that for ourselves on September 11th, 2001.

Also, let us us not forget the deaths of those in Iraq, Syria, Israel, and Lebanon by those same hands. Terrorism is a scourge that needs to be exterminated, a cancer that infests all of humankind. We must all strive for a cure.

Pray for them all. For peace. But praying for peace will still not be enough. To gain peace, one must prepare to take action, even if it means doing so through violent means.

Speak softly, carry a big stick. The time for speaking softly has passed, it's time to start swinging the stick. Hard. Don't let politics stand in the way.

I hate the war on terrorism because it doesn't have a country to defeat.

But we should take out any regimes that harbor them. Unfortunately that's not always cut and dry or easily done.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes, I remember unions. Weren't unions those people that chased all our jobs out of the country because of their outrageous demands that made it too costly for American companies to do business in America?

tell me, what were the unions demanding that was 'outrageous", exactly?

You are like the misogynistic whole blame a rape victim for wearing too short of a dress.

Sorry, living wages and safe working conditions are not "outrageous' demands.

See, in the olden days, if you didn't make enough money, you found work that paid better money, worked two jobs, or otherwise worked six days a week. Today, if your job doesn't pay enough money, it's the jobs fault--not yours.

No, it really is the fault of the 1% that controls 43% of the wealth and still doesn't think they have enough.

I'm sure you live in your Trailer Park in Cleveland and blame the bad old unions for the fact you make shitty wages and not the big corporations that moved your job to Mexico.

Nope, I'm doing just fine thank you. Unlike liberals who want to whine about working at Walmart, I took the initiative to make sure I got into a line of work that's always in demand. In fact by the end of the year, we will need 48,000 more workers, but we can't get them off their Obama phone and SNAP's cards to take the jobs. Now industry is looking at hiring foreigners because Americans are too lazy and comfortable to work.

What's outrageous is that companies were disabled from getting rid of bad workers that brought the company down. They were forced to promote even the most worthless employees all because of union demands. They were forced to pay superior wages to those with little or no skills. In a few cases that I know of, they even had companies provide positions of employment where they didn't do an ounce of work all day long every day.

The destructions of unions in this country is transcending; from teachers unions to government unions that brought down our education levels and are bankrupting states. From the private market where large companies were chased out to small businesses where the company was forced to close down.