Study Says Concealed Carry Permits Don't Affect Crime

[Brain357]

The ones who would be dissuaded so easily aren't adding to the crime rate in the first place.

But they would if the preventative measures weren't in place.
The reason the crime rate is going down is that those that could be dissuaded haven't been committing the crimes that they would have been had the situation been different. If a potential criminal is prevented from becoming a career criminal, all of their future crimes have been prevented as well.
The effect isn't immediately visible but it grows with time, and the results of what was done in the past are now becoming apparent.

They are dissuaded by morals and fear of being caught and punished. Concealed carry has nothing to do with that as the study shows.

While the study might not show it, CC certainly does nothing to encourage a potential crime, either.
The prevalence of legal CC is directly proportional to its effectiveness. In other words, the more people that practice lawful CC, the better the chance that a potential criminal will encounter one. In this potential criminal's mind, the risk vs. reward equation tips further out of their favor as lawful CC becomes more widespread, possibly due to the fact that it takes less justification for a private citizen to permanently end a criminal's career than it would for a law enforcement officer to do so.

More cc doesn't make a difference because the criminal goes free.

 

[Alystyr]

The ones who would be dissuaded so easily aren't adding to the crime rate in the first place.

But they would if the preventative measures weren't in place.
The reason the crime rate is going down is that those that could be dissuaded haven't been committing the crimes that they would have been had the situation been different. If a potential criminal is prevented from becoming a career criminal, all of their future crimes have been prevented as well.
The effect isn't immediately visible but it grows with time, and the results of what was done in the past are now becoming apparent.

They are dissuaded by morals and fear of being caught and punished. Concealed carry has nothing to do with that as the study shows.

While the study might not show it, CC certainly does nothing to encourage a potential crime, either.
The prevalence of legal CC is directly proportional to its effectiveness. In other words, the more people that practice lawful CC, the better the chance that a potential criminal will encounter one. In this potential criminal's mind, the risk vs. reward equation tips further out of their favor as lawful CC becomes more widespread, possibly due to the fact that it takes less justification for a private citizen to permanently end a criminal's career than it would for a law enforcement officer to do so.

No it does not encourage crime. This study and others show it does not affect crime rates.

So - if lawful CC doesn't affect crime rates, yet does nothing to encourage crime...why are you worried about it?

More cc doesn't make a difference because the criminal goes free.

Until, of course, said criminal runs afoul of a person practicing lawful CC and gets... permanently retired.
More lawful CC just improves the odds of that happening.

 

[Dan Daly]

Gun laws don't create criminals. Why would they effect crime rates? I guess they will lead to more jail time for some criminals lowering crime rates.

Concealed carry permits don't create criminals either..whoops.

FYI, many gun laws DO create criminals...literally overnight...of otherwise law-abiding citizens. One day the firearm they own is perfectly legal, then the next, POOF, it isn't and they are a criminal.

Neither I, nor the study claims concealed carry creates criminals. Why the whoops?

When has that happened?

Nevermind...that you can't even see your own circular logic just further proves that you are beyond logic and reason.

I think you're right Dan.
He doesn't seem to realize that dissuading a potential criminal from committing the crime(s) that could lead to a career of crimes is the best way to lower crime rates.

As the study shows, it doesn't reduce crime rates. Why would letting the criminal run free dissuade crime?[/QUOTE

Here is where you really go off the deep end. As another poster has constantly said...PROVE IT! Prove that someone prevented from committing one crime will "still commit a crime that day".

Whoopsie, hoisted by your own petard yet again, swami.

See the study in the OP.

Sorry, no proof of your claim there...try again.

Yes there is actually. It is why concealed carry does not effect crime rates. Now run along.

Then you should have no problem quoting and posting from the article the proof that "The criminal walks free. He will still commit a crime that day.", as you so ignorantly vomited, now should you?

Time to fish or cut bait, son.

The results of the study say that. You are really quite dense.

Yet you can't provide the quote. The results of the study say no such thing, and you know it...or maybe you don't...you haven't show much in the way if intelligence in this thread.

 

[Brain357]

The ones who would be dissuaded so easily aren't adding to the crime rate in the first place.

But they would if the preventative measures weren't in place.
The reason the crime rate is going down is that those that could be dissuaded haven't been committing the crimes that they would have been had the situation been different. If a potential criminal is prevented from becoming a career criminal, all of their future crimes have been prevented as well.
The effect isn't immediately visible but it grows with time, and the results of what was done in the past are now becoming apparent.

They are dissuaded by morals and fear of being caught and punished. Concealed carry has nothing to do with that as the study shows.

While the study might not show it, CC certainly does nothing to encourage a potential crime, either.
The prevalence of legal CC is directly proportional to its effectiveness. In other words, the more people that practice lawful CC, the better the chance that a potential criminal will encounter one. In this potential criminal's mind, the risk vs. reward equation tips further out of their favor as lawful CC becomes more widespread, possibly due to the fact that it takes less justification for a private citizen to permanently end a criminal's career than it would for a law enforcement officer to do so.

No it does not encourage crime. This study and others show it does not affect crime rates.

So - if lawful CC doesn't affect crime rates, yet does nothing to encourage crime...why are you worried about it?

More cc doesn't make a difference because the criminal goes free.

Until, of course, said criminal runs afoul of a person practicing lawful CC and gets... permanently retired.
More lawful CC just improves the odds of that happening.

Not worried about it, just like honest debate. I find the facts interesting.

The criminal is more than twice as likely to accidently shoot himself dead than be killed by a defender. It almost never happens, criminals aren't worried about it.

 

[Brain357]

Concealed carry permits don't create criminals either..whoops.

FYI, many gun laws DO create criminals...literally overnight...of otherwise law-abiding citizens. One day the firearm they own is perfectly legal, then the next, POOF, it isn't and they are a criminal.

Neither I, nor the study claims concealed carry creates criminals. Why the whoops?

When has that happened?

Nevermind...that you can't even see your own circular logic just further proves that you are beyond logic and reason.

I think you're right Dan.
He doesn't seem to realize that dissuading a potential criminal from committing the crime(s) that could lead to a career of crimes is the best way to lower crime rates.

As the study shows, it doesn't reduce crime rates. Why would letting the criminal run free dissuade crime?[/QUOTE

See the study in the OP.

Sorry, no proof of your claim there...try again.

Yes there is actually. It is why concealed carry does not effect crime rates. Now run along.

Then you should have no problem quoting and posting from the article the proof that "The criminal walks free. He will still commit a crime that day.", as you so ignorantly vomited, now should you?

Time to fish or cut bait, son.

The results of the study say that. You are really quite dense.

Yet you can't provide the quote. The results of the study say no such thing, and you know it...or maybe you don't...you haven't show much in the way if intelligence in this thread.

And what is your explanation for why concealed carry does not affect crime rates? You seem i denial of the obvious reason.

 

[Alystyr]

The criminal is more than twice as likely to accidently shoot himself dead than be killed by a defender.

That is likely due to the historically low prevalence of lawful CC. It will probably change (for the better) with an increase in CC numbers.

And what is your explanation for why concealed carry does not affect crime rates?

Not directed at me, but it's probably because potential crimes prevented by lawful CC just cannot be quantified by any practical or reliable means.

 

[2aguy]

Gun laws don't create criminals. Why would they effect crime rates? I guess they will lead to more jail time for some criminals lowering crime rates.

Concealed carry permits don't create criminals either..whoops.

FYI, many gun laws DO create criminals...literally overnight...of otherwise law-abiding citizens. One day the firearm they own is perfectly legal, then the next, POOF, it isn't and they are a criminal.

Neither I, nor the study claims concealed carry creates criminals. Why the whoops?

When has that happened?

Nevermind...that you can't even see your own circular logic just further proves that you are beyond logic and reason.

I think you're right Dan.
He doesn't seem to realize that dissuading a potential criminal from committing the crime(s) that could lead to a career of crimes is the best way to lower crime rates.

As the study shows, it doesn't reduce crime rates. Why would letting the criminal run free dissuade crime?

Because he goes to his criminal buddies and says….I almost got shot…..and they break into homes instead of attacking people…..moron.

 

[Brain357]

The criminal is more than twice as likely to accidently shoot himself dead than be killed by a defender.

That is likely due to the historically low prevalence of lawful CC. It will probably change (for the better) with an increase in CC numbers.

And what is your explanation for why concealed carry does not affect crime rates?

Not directed at me, but it's probably because potential crimes prevented by lawful CC just cannot be quantified by any practical or reliable means.

We have by far the most guns in the world. The death numbers for criminals is not just from carry. More people carrying will make no significant difference.

 

[Brain357]

Concealed carry permits don't create criminals either..whoops.

FYI, many gun laws DO create criminals...literally overnight...of otherwise law-abiding citizens. One day the firearm they own is perfectly legal, then the next, POOF, it isn't and they are a criminal.

Neither I, nor the study claims concealed carry creates criminals. Why the whoops?

When has that happened?

Nevermind...that you can't even see your own circular logic just further proves that you are beyond logic and reason.

I think you're right Dan.
He doesn't seem to realize that dissuading a potential criminal from committing the crime(s) that could lead to a career of crimes is the best way to lower crime rates.

As the study shows, it doesn't reduce crime rates. Why would letting the criminal run free dissuade crime?

Because he goes to his criminal buddies and says….I almost got shot…..and they break into homes instead of attacking people…..moron.

That still doesn't lower crime. It just changes what criminals do. Thank you.

 

[2aguy]

The ones who would be dissuaded so easily aren't adding to the crime rate in the first place.

But they would if the preventative measures weren't in place.
The reason the crime rate is going down is that those that could be dissuaded haven't been committing the crimes that they would have been had the situation been different. If a potential criminal is prevented from becoming a career criminal, all of their future crimes have been prevented as well.
The effect isn't immediately visible but it grows with time, and the results of what was done in the past are now becoming apparent.

They are dissuaded by morals and fear of being caught and punished. Concealed carry has nothing to do with that as the study shows.

They aren't being punished moron……gun criminals are getting minimal sentences in these democrat cities and are back on the street, when convicted, in under 3 years…..Chicago police Commissioner McCarthy was just bitching about this today on the news……the catch and release is what drives crime….

 

[2aguy]

And here is what Lott actually says….
Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise, study claims

“When you allow people to carry concealed handguns, you see changes in the behavior of criminals," said the center’s president, John R. Lott, a Fox News contributor. “Some criminals stop committing crimes, others move on to crimes in which they don’t come into contact with victims and others actually move to areas where they have less fear of being confronted by armed victims.”

he real measure of the deterrent effect of concealed carry permits, according to Lott, is not laws on the books, but the percentage of a given state’s population that holds the permits. In 10 states, more than 8 percent of adults hold concealed carry permits, and all are among the states with the lowest crime rates. Lott claims his group’s analysis shows that each one percentage point increase in the adult population holding permits brings a 1.4 percent drop in the murder rate.

Lott 9/19/15 concealed carry paper

Not All Right-to-Carry Laws Are the Same, Yet Much of the Literature Keeps Ignoring the Differences by John R. Lott :: SSRN

Abstract:
Unfortunately, many who have examined the impact of so-called "shall-issue" or "right-to-carry" laws assume that the adoption of such laws causes a large, immediate increase in the number of permits. But that is often not the case, for states differ widely as to how easily permits can be obtained. This problem is particularly problematic for studies that have looked at the period after 2000. In fact, the share of the adult population with permits increased less during the 1999-2010 period in the states that adopted right-to-carry laws than the states that they are being compared against.

 

[Brain357]

The ones who would be dissuaded so easily aren't adding to the crime rate in the first place.

But they would if the preventative measures weren't in place.
The reason the crime rate is going down is that those that could be dissuaded haven't been committing the crimes that they would have been had the situation been different. If a potential criminal is prevented from becoming a career criminal, all of their future crimes have been prevented as well.
The effect isn't immediately visible but it grows with time, and the results of what was done in the past are now becoming apparent.

They are dissuaded by morals and fear of being caught and punished. Concealed carry has nothing to do with that as the study shows.

They aren't being punished moron……gun criminals are getting minimal sentences in these democrat cities and are back on the street, when convicted, in under 3 years…..Chicago police Commissioner McCarthy was just bitching about this today on the news……the catch and release is what drives crime….

Sorry moron, but going to jail is punishment.

 

[Brain357]

And here is what Lott actually says….
Murder rate drops as concealed carry permits rise, study claims

“When you allow people to carry concealed handguns, you see changes in the behavior of criminals," said the center’s president, John R. Lott, a Fox News contributor. “Some criminals stop committing crimes, others move on to crimes in which they don’t come into contact with victims and others actually move to areas where they have less fear of being confronted by armed victims.”

he real measure of the deterrent effect of concealed carry permits, according to Lott, is not laws on the books, but the percentage of a given state’s population that holds the permits. In 10 states, more than 8 percent of adults hold concealed carry permits, and all are among the states with the lowest crime rates. Lott claims his group’s analysis shows that each one percentage point increase in the adult population holding permits brings a 1.4 percent drop in the murder rate.

Lott 9/19/15 concealed carry paper

Not All Right-to-Carry Laws Are the Same, Yet Much of the Literature Keeps Ignoring the Differences by John R. Lott :: SSRN

Abstract:
Unfortunately, many who have examined the impact of so-called "shall-issue" or "right-to-carry" laws assume that the adoption of such laws causes a large, immediate increase in the number of permits. But that is often not the case, for states differ widely as to how easily permits can be obtained. This problem is particularly problematic for studies that have looked at the period after 2000. In fact, the share of the adult population with permits increased less during the 1999-2010 period in the states that adopted right-to-carry laws than the states that they are being compared against.

Oh lott who makes up surveys. Dismissed.

 

[Dan Daly]

The criminal is more than twice as likely to accidently shoot himself dead than be killed by a defender.

That is likely due to the historically low prevalence of lawful CC. It will probably change (for the better) with an increase in CC numbers.

And what is your explanation for why concealed carry does not affect crime rates?

Not directed at me, but it's probably because potential crimes prevented by lawful CC just cannot be quantified by any practical or reliable means.

We have by far the most guns in the world. The death numbers for criminals is not just from carry. More people carrying will make no significant difference.

History would disagree with you, considering that just about everyone used to carry firearms or other weapons in this and other countries in the world, but had very little crime as compared to today.

In my county, I can guarantee you that just about every household is armed...yet we have little or no crime. So what is the difference between my county and the more urban county north of us that has fewer firearms per household but a much larger crime rate?

 

[Brain357]

The criminal is more than twice as likely to accidently shoot himself dead than be killed by a defender.

That is likely due to the historically low prevalence of lawful CC. It will probably change (for the better) with an increase in CC numbers.

And what is your explanation for why concealed carry does not affect crime rates?

Not directed at me, but it's probably because potential crimes prevented by lawful CC just cannot be quantified by any practical or reliable means.

We have by far the most guns in the world. The death numbers for criminals is not just from carry. More people carrying will make no significant difference.

History would disagree with you, considering that just about everyone used to carry firearms or other weapons in this and other countries in the world, but had very little crime as compared to today.

In my county, I can guarantee you that just about every household is armed...yet we have little or no crime. So what is the difference between my county and the more urban county north of us that has fewer firearms per household but a much larger crime rate?

Most of Europe has low gun ownership and lower crimes rates than the US.

 

[2aguy]

The ones who would be dissuaded so easily aren't adding to the crime rate in the first place.

But they would if the preventative measures weren't in place.
The reason the crime rate is going down is that those that could be dissuaded haven't been committing the crimes that they would have been had the situation been different. If a potential criminal is prevented from becoming a career criminal, all of their future crimes have been prevented as well.
The effect isn't immediately visible but it grows with time, and the results of what was done in the past are now becoming apparent.

They are dissuaded by morals and fear of being caught and punished. Concealed carry has nothing to do with that as the study shows.

Concealed carry lowers violent crime agains human victims moron…….

 

[Brain357]

The ones who would be dissuaded so easily aren't adding to the crime rate in the first place.

But they would if the preventative measures weren't in place.
The reason the crime rate is going down is that those that could be dissuaded haven't been committing the crimes that they would have been had the situation been different. If a potential criminal is prevented from becoming a career criminal, all of their future crimes have been prevented as well.
The effect isn't immediately visible but it grows with time, and the results of what was done in the past are now becoming apparent.

They are dissuaded by morals and fear of being caught and punished. Concealed carry has nothing to do with that as the study shows.

Concealed carry lowers violent crime agains human victims moron…….

That's funny violent crime went up in wi after they got concealed carry. You fail again.

 

[2aguy]

The criminal is more than twice as likely to accidently shoot himself dead than be killed by a defender.

That is likely due to the historically low prevalence of lawful CC. It will probably change (for the better) with an increase in CC numbers.

And what is your explanation for why concealed carry does not affect crime rates?

Not directed at me, but it's probably because potential crimes prevented by lawful CC just cannot be quantified by any practical or reliable means.

We have by far the most guns in the world. The death numbers for criminals is not just from carry. More people carrying will make no significant difference.

History would disagree with you, considering that just about everyone used to carry firearms or other weapons in this and other countries in the world, but had very little crime as compared to today.

In my county, I can guarantee you that just about every household is armed...yet we have little or no crime. So what is the difference between my county and the more urban county north of us that has fewer firearms per household but a much larger crime rate?

Most of Europe has low gun ownership and lower crimes rates than the US.

And their criminals get their guns just as easily as our criminals do…they just don't use them as much because their criminal culture is different….but they are now importing more violent criminals from violent countries to commit the violent crime European criminals won't do…so their rates will be going up fairly quickly….

 

[2aguy]

The ones who would be dissuaded so easily aren't adding to the crime rate in the first place.

But they would if the preventative measures weren't in place.
The reason the crime rate is going down is that those that could be dissuaded haven't been committing the crimes that they would have been had the situation been different. If a potential criminal is prevented from becoming a career criminal, all of their future crimes have been prevented as well.
The effect isn't immediately visible but it grows with time, and the results of what was done in the past are now becoming apparent.

They are dissuaded by morals and fear of being caught and punished. Concealed carry has nothing to do with that as the study shows.

Concealed carry lowers violent crime agains human victims moron…….

That's funny violent crime went up in wi after they got concealed carry. You fail again.

And you know that they just passed it and that Milwaukee, where the actual gun violence is, is fighting concealed carry and they don't have enough police……same thing with Chicago….we have a shooting gallery here….and D.C. fighting concealed carry and just won't issue permits, and Baltimore as well…..

 

[2aguy]

Here you go…state that have concealed carry and their crime rates have gone down…..
Florida...

Florida Crime Down in 2014, But Murders and Rapes on Rise

The department reported the number of crimes per 100,000 residents dropped by 4.9 percent and was Florida's lowest level in 44 years.

There were 865,392 arrests made last year, down 5.1 percent from 2013.
And what was the point of this thread.....Florida just broke 1.5 million concealed carry permit holders....and the overall crime rate is down, as they hand out 20,000 new permits a month...
And there was a story about the crime rate being down in Minnesota as they reached 200,000 concealed carry permits, about 5% of their population, 19% of whom are women......
*****************************

And concealed carry reaches 1.5 million 9/17/15

Florida Concealed Carry Permits Reach 1.5 Million, Adding 20,000 Each Month

*********************

Minnesota....5% of pop, 200,000 19% of whom are women..and crime rate down...

On Firearms, Reporting Obscures the Truth