Tax the Rich: Fix Jobs and Deficits

[martybegan]

What if raising taxes on the super rich and their corporations funds a 21st century WPA?

WPA type projects are often big infrastructure projects, dams, power plants, wastewater plants, roads, bridges. Back in the 30's you could just build the damn things, with manual labor.

Today you require a more specialized work force, but that isnt the dealbreaker. The dealbreaker are all the new Environmental rules you have to meet, permits you have to file, studies you have to perform. Add in the fact that any idiot with access to a lawyer could sue to stop you, and it would take a decade to get these projects off the ground.

 

[theHawk]

None of that proves the Bush tax cuts caused the increase in revenue.

You could as easily say that the explosion of deficit spending from 2001 on stimulated the economy and caused the increased revenue.

Wow, the increased revenue came from "deficit spending". How rediculuous can you get?

 

[Claudette]

First you said you want their taxes raised, now you say you don't. Then you say you do.

Which is it?

Thought my post was pretty clear. I'll clarify just for you NYC.

If the taxes on the high earners get raised then everyones taxes should be raised. That includes the 50% who pay for nothing. Pretty simple really.

After all. Fair is Fair.

Since the 50% who pay no federal income taxes donate a far higher percentage of their total income to taxes of all kinds, would you think it "fair" to ask the richest 1% to donate the same percent of their total income to taxes as the 50% do?

You bet.

Fair is fair or does your idea of social justice only apply to those in the lower income bracket??

Just because someone makes more money than someone else why should they be expected to carry the burden for others?? While those folks are better off financially they will still be paying all the taxes the lower income folks pay plus about 60% of all Fed taxes. I think they pay their fair share and then some.

The poor pay for nothing. If there were no rich folks they would still be paying for nothing. The entire burden would fall on the middle class. Don't know about you but I don't much like that scenario.

Yup. I love those rich tax paying rich folks. Wish there were more of em.

 

[georgephillip]

Since DC Democrats and Republicans are tone deaf to anything that doesn't ring of corporate cash, it falls on workers to demand a massive public works program which can be funded by taxing corporations and the richest Americans at pre-Reagan levels.

"And it makes complete sense because the growing inequalities in wealth over the past three decades has meant a spectacular concentration of wealth at the top.

"The rich have plenty of money to spare."

Spare me the brain-dead conservative vomit about how hard the rich have "worked" for all their money.

The rich have the money because Republicans AND Democrats threw money at Wall Street banks and hedge funds instead of prosecuting the executives responsible for the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression.

The rich have the money because their chief enabler, The Federal Reserve, has fueled a major commodity bubble "that may be in the midst of bursting, possibly triggering a double dip recession."

Throw in high unemployment which allows the rich to work remaining employees harder and thus increase profits and combine it with commodity speculation and you have the entire basis for a corporate recovery which both major parties tout as "proof" of economic "recovery."

It's another lie the rich tell.

When the Fed stops purchasing 60% of US Treasury bonds, a new creditor will have to step up. One that will probably demand significantly higher interest rates before loaning anymore money to the US Government.

Surprise, surprise - the rich win again!

They got all that free bail-out money which increased the deficit.
None of them went to prison for their crimes.
Their bottom lines are being enhanced by commodity speculation and high unemployment.
And now the rich want higher interest rates for investing in US Treasury Bonds.

"In (all) instances working people pay the bills."

The Rich Are Destroying the Economy | Common Dreams

Its not about defending the "rich", I just want to hear how taxing them and giving the money to the government is going to help the poor and unemployed. Because the government does nothing to help them.

Would you feel the same way if the government put the tax monies to work by funding a 21st Century version of the WPA, putting millions of unemployed Americans back to work rebuilding infrastructure?

High speed rail?

Universal fiber optic internet?

What is our government doing to help the people of Afghanistan?
Besides boosting poppy production.

 

[daveman]

Since DC Democrats and Republicans are tone deaf to anything that doesn't ring of corporate cash, it falls on workers to demand a massive public works program which can be funded by taxing corporations and the richest Americans at pre-Reagan levels.

"And it makes complete sense because the growing inequalities in wealth over the past three decades has meant a spectacular concentration of wealth at the top.

"The rich have plenty of money to spare."

Spare me the brain-dead conservative vomit about how hard the rich have "worked" for all their money.

The rich have the money because Republicans AND Democrats threw money at Wall Street banks and hedge funds instead of prosecuting the executives responsible for the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression.

The rich have the money because their chief enabler, The Federal Reserve, has fueled a major commodity bubble "that may be in the midst of bursting, possibly triggering a double dip recession."

Throw in high unemployment which allows the rich to work remaining employees harder and thus increase profits and combine it with commodity speculation and you have the entire basis for a corporate recovery which both major parties tout as "proof" of economic "recovery."

It's another lie the rich tell.

When the Fed stops purchasing 60% of US Treasury bonds, a new creditor will have to step up. One that will probably demand significantly higher interest rates before loaning anymore money to the US Government.

Surprise, surprise - the rich win again!

They got all that free bail-out money which increased the deficit.
None of them went to prison for their crimes.
Their bottom lines are being enhanced by commodity speculation and high unemployment.
And now the rich want higher interest rates for investing in US Treasury Bonds.

"In (all) instances working people pay the bills."

The Rich Are Destroying the Economy | Common Dreams

Its not about defending the "rich", I just want to hear how taxing them and giving the money to the government is going to help the poor and unemployed. Because the government does nothing to help them.

Would you feel the same way if the government put the tax monies to work by funding a 21st Century version of the WPA, putting millions of unemployed Americans back to work rebuilding infrastructure?

High speed rail?

Universal fiber optic internet?

What is our government doing to help the people of Afghanistan?
Besides boosting poppy production.

Do you really think you can build high speed rail and fiber optic networks with unskilled labor?

Reality check: No, you can't.

 

[georgephillip]

Mr. GeorgePhilip:

Can't reach you with logic or reason.. How about this?

What is your beef with Oprah Winfrey? Do you really want to punish Venus/Serena Williams and all the other "first generation rich"? Did the S.F. Giants steal from you?

Gee I can understand Bill Gates -- his crap has cost me countless hours of grief. But even your most leftist orgs have pointed out that 40% of the folks on the Forbes Richest list came from modest means or LESS. What does that tell you about economic mobility in this country?

So when you put faces to the ENEMY in this war. I want you to see Justin Bieber (a guy who was panhandling at bus stations a few years back) , the heart surgeon who's gonna save your sorry ass someday and George Soros. Because THEY are your sworn rich enemies that you want to rape and pillage.

I know -- that's ruins the whole dam mood of this thread. I'm SOOO tired of this crap. I just want to GIVE BACK the Bush tax cuts just to shut these mothers up. They would then have NO IDEA of what to do next. And the result to the economy would be like chemotherapy gone wild. Let's just blow the sucker up and GIVE THEM what they want..

flacaltenn (SECPAC12?):

What does it say to you about the health of our Republic when more citizens know the names Oprah/Venus/Serena than know who Noam Chomsky is?

Oprah, et al, are corporate whores whose principle role in this society is to deflect attention from the crimes committed by the US ruling elites. Crimes like Iraq and Afghanistan or Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns, for example.

If you are tired of this crap, imagine how those whose children are being murdered and maimed for profit feel.
Imagine how those who've lost their jobs, houses and pensions feel.

Pat Tillman's dad put it pretty well when he said "Fuck you and yours"

That's my message for Oprah, Venus, Serena, Bill and Justin and Obama.

Gotta beef with that?

 

[georgephillip]

Its not about defending the "rich", I just want to hear how taxing them and giving the money to the government is going to help the poor and unemployed. Because the government does nothing to help them.

Would you feel the same way if the government put the tax monies to work by funding a 21st Century version of the WPA, putting millions of unemployed Americans back to work rebuilding infrastructure?

High speed rail?

Universal fiber optic internet?

What is our government doing to help the people of Afghanistan?
Besides boosting poppy production.

Do you really think you can build high speed rail and fiber optic networks with unskilled labor?

Reality check: No, you can't.

Yeah, Dave, you can if your principle concern is NOT short-term profit.

Can the private sector manage it?

No. Just like the private sector in the 19th century couldn't manage the construction of the transcontinental railroads without government.

Where would you be without a government stipend?

Supermax?

 

[daveman]

Would you feel the same way if the government put the tax monies to work by funding a 21st Century version of the WPA, putting millions of unemployed Americans back to work rebuilding infrastructure?

High speed rail?

Universal fiber optic internet?

What is our government doing to help the people of Afghanistan?
Besides boosting poppy production.

Do you really think you can build high speed rail and fiber optic networks with unskilled labor?

Reality check: No, you can't.

Yeah, Dave, you can if your principle concern is NOT short-term profit.

Can the private sector manage it?

Then YOU ride on that damn train. You won't get me near it.

Unskilled, untrained, and inexperienced people doing jobs they shouldn't is a recipe for disaster. Look at the Obama Administration.

No. Just like the private sector in the 19th century couldn't manage the construction of the transcontinental railroads without government.

Where would you be without a government stipend?

Supermax?

Someone leeching off society and advocating the government take by force and give him what he hasn't earned really shouldn't be bitching about others who earned their pensions.

 

[DiamondDave]

Would you feel the same way if the government put the tax monies to work by funding a 21st Century version of the WPA, putting millions of unemployed Americans back to work rebuilding infrastructure?

High speed rail?

Universal fiber optic internet?

What is our government doing to help the people of Afghanistan?
Besides boosting poppy production.

Do you really think you can build high speed rail and fiber optic networks with unskilled labor?

Reality check: No, you can't.

Yeah, Dave, you can if your principle concern is NOT short-term profit.

Can the private sector manage it?

No. Just like the private sector in the 19th century couldn't manage the construction of the transcontinental railroads without government.

Where would you be without a government stipend?

Supermax?

You sir, are a goddamned motherfucking idiot

That is all

 

[kwc57]

George, you talk the talk, but do you walk the walk? It's been 24 hours and you still have not accepted the challenge.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/172042-tax-the-rich-fix-jobs-and-deficits-2.html#post3772006

 

[Claudette]

They are pretty good at spending other peoples money.

Not so good if its their money and theirs alone. After all, who wants to go broke taking care of the poor and downtrodden??

 

[Wry Catcher]

The pofane daveboy asked, "Do you really think you can build high speed rail and fiber optic networks with unskilled labor?" He latter adds, "You sir, are a goddamned motherfucking idiot".

The answer is yes. Unskilled does not mean unable. And to suggest either project would be planned, managed and supervised by unskilled labor is beyond hyperbole, it is dishonest.

 

[daveman]

The pofane daveboy asked, "Do you really think you can build high speed rail and fiber optic networks with unskilled labor?" He latter adds, "You sir, are a goddamned motherfucking idiot".

Good Gaea's galloping gazongas, but you're nowhere NEAR as smart as you think you are.

Read the posts again, you idiot. Pay particular attention to the usernames. If you need help, please PM me.

Moron.

The answer is yes. Unskilled does not mean unable. And to suggest either project would be planned, managed and supervised by unskilled labor is beyond hyperbole, it is dishonest.

The answer is no. Construction requires skilled labor. I suppose the WPA folks can sweep up, but they can't do any actual construction.

Something tells me you've never worn a hard hat. Perhaps you should not speak authoritatively about things of which you have no knowledge or experience.

 

[flacaltenn]

Mr. GeorgePhilip:

Can't reach you with logic or reason.. How about this?

What is your beef with Oprah Winfrey? Do you really want to punish Venus/Serena Williams and all the other "first generation rich"? Did the S.F. Giants steal from you?

Gee I can understand Bill Gates -- his crap has cost me countless hours of grief. But even your most leftist orgs have pointed out that 40% of the folks on the Forbes Richest list came from modest means or LESS. What does that tell you about economic mobility in this country?

So when you put faces to the ENEMY in this war. I want you to see Justin Bieber (a guy who was panhandling at bus stations a few years back) , the heart surgeon who's gonna save your sorry ass someday and George Soros. Because THEY are your sworn rich enemies that you want to rape and pillage.

I know -- that's ruins the whole dam mood of this thread. I'm SOOO tired of this crap. I just want to GIVE BACK the Bush tax cuts just to shut these mothers up. They would then have NO IDEA of what to do next. And the result to the economy would be like chemotherapy gone wild. Let's just blow the sucker up and GIVE THEM what they want..

flacaltenn (SECPAC12?):

What does it say to you about the health of our Republic when more citizens know the names Oprah/Venus/Serena than know who Noam Chomsky is?

Oprah, et al, are corporate whores whose principle role in this society is to deflect attention from the crimes committed by the US ruling elites. Crimes like Iraq and Afghanistan or Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns, for example.

If you are tired of this crap, imagine how those whose children are being murdered and maimed for profit feel.
Imagine how those who've lost their jobs, houses and pensions feel.

Pat Tillman's dad put it pretty well when he said "Fuck you and yours"

That's my message for Oprah, Venus, Serena, Bill and Justin and Obama.

Gotta beef with that?

Congrats georgephillip. You are my FAVORITE type of commie then. One who doesnt' make ANY exceptions to the list of "rich" that should serve them. Probably Noam Chomsky has squandered all his riches on noble proletariat causes. Surely HE will surrender all of his excess wealth to ANYTHING that strikes you fancy.

We agree about the mis-use of American power abroad, but otherwise, you ARE my enemy. I'm never goin to war against Oprah,Venus,Serena, Bill and Justin with you.. You're very angry. A very fine quality for a revolutionary. But I'm worried that you want to have the revolution NOW -- bury the carcasses, and THEN figure out what the plan is. Just like all of your revolutionary heroes. High-speed rail? IS THAT WHAT FIXES American occupations in 2 countries and bombing of 3 others a day?

You've got no plan....

 

[Wry Catcher]

The pofane daveboy asked, "Do you really think you can build high speed rail and fiber optic networks with unskilled labor?" He latter adds, "You sir, are a goddamned motherfucking idiot".

Good Gaea's galloping gazongas, but you're nowhere NEAR as smart as you think you are.

Read the posts again, you idiot. Pay particular attention to the usernames. If you need help, please PM me.

Moron.

The answer is yes. Unskilled does not mean unable. And to suggest either project would be planned, managed and supervised by unskilled labor is beyond hyperbole, it is dishonest.

The answer is no. Construction requires skilled labor. I suppose the WPA folks can sweep up, but they can't do any actual construction.

Something tells me you've never worn a hard hat. Perhaps you should not speak authoritatively about things of which you have no knowledge or experience.

I erred. Most people make errors, some are too insecure to admit so.

Otherwise, you're wrong. You will never admit it, no evidence ever causes you pause and that is a character issue as well as your propensity to call those you disagree with names, so, my err was explainable if not excuseable.

Nope, I've never worn a hard hat. I have owned three homes and can read and follow directions. So my skill level in home repair is about that of an E-6, competent but not skilled enough to supervise others. Career wise I supervised managers who supervised supervisors.

 

[daveman]

The pofane daveboy asked, "Do you really think you can build high speed rail and fiber optic networks with unskilled labor?" He latter adds, "You sir, are a goddamned motherfucking idiot".

Good Gaea's galloping gazongas, but you're nowhere NEAR as smart as you think you are.

Read the posts again, you idiot. Pay particular attention to the usernames. If you need help, please PM me.

Moron.

The answer is yes. Unskilled does not mean unable. And to suggest either project would be planned, managed and supervised by unskilled labor is beyond hyperbole, it is dishonest.

The answer is no. Construction requires skilled labor. I suppose the WPA folks can sweep up, but they can't do any actual construction.

Something tells me you've never worn a hard hat. Perhaps you should not speak authoritatively about things of which you have no knowledge or experience.

I erred. Most people make errors, some are too insecure to admit so.

I do all the time. I even apologize for them.

That never occurred to you, though, did it?

Otherwise, you're wrong. You will never admit it, no evidence ever causes you pause and that is a character issue as well as your propensity to call those you disagree with names, so, my err was explainable if not excuseable.

So...you fucked up, and it's MY fault.

You really are not very bright, are you?

Nope, I've never worn a hard hat.

Then why do you pretend your opinion matters?

I have owned three homes and can read and follow directions. So my skill level in home repair is about that of an E-6, competent but not skilled enough to supervise others. Career wise I supervised managers who supervised supervisors.

And once again, you speak of matter of which you know nothing.

E-6s are supervisors. As an E-4, I worked unsupervised because I knew what I was doing. As an E-5, I led maintenance crews and wrote performance reports and decorations. As an E-6, I managed a billion dollars' worth of equipment. I told (respectfully) O-6s that they couldn't have the equipment they wanted. When I retired, my Director, another O-6, said he'd heard nothing but compliments for my work from those same O-6s whose requests I turned down. Generals and command chief master sergeants have given me coins for my work.

Now, do you really want to continue bloviating about construction and the military as if you know something about it? I really don't mind making you look stupid.

Or, if you'd rather, before you post, you could ask yourself, "Have I ever done this?" If the answer is no, then you could just STFU and not look like such an arrogant prick.

But that never occurred to you, either.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Good Gaea's galloping gazongas, but you're nowhere NEAR as smart as you think you are.

Read the posts again, you idiot. Pay particular attention to the usernames. If you need help, please PM me.

Moron.


The answer is no. Construction requires skilled labor. I suppose the WPA folks can sweep up, but they can't do any actual construction.

Something tells me you've never worn a hard hat. Perhaps you should not speak authoritatively about things of which you have no knowledge or experience.

I erred. Most people make errors, some are too insecure to admit so.

I do all the time. I even apologize for them.

That never occurred to you, though, did it?

So...you fucked up, and it's MY fault.

You really are not very bright, are you?

Nope, I've never worn a hard hat.

Then why do you pretend your opinion matters?

I have owned three homes and can read and follow directions. So my skill level in home repair is about that of an E-6, competent but not skilled enough to supervise others. Career wise I supervised managers who supervised supervisors.

And once again, you speak of matter of which you know nothing.

E-6s are supervisors. As an E-4, I worked unsupervised because I knew what I was doing. As an E-5, I led maintenance crews and wrote performance reports and decorations. As an E-6, I managed a billion dollars' worth of equipment. I told (respectfully) O-6s that they couldn't have the equipment they wanted. When I retired, my Director, another O-6, said he'd heard nothing but compliments for my work from those same O-6s whose requests I turned down. Generals and command chief master sergeants have given me coins for my work.

Now, do you really want to continue bloviating about construction and the military as if you know something about it? I really don't mind making you look stupid.

Or, if you'd rather, before you post, you could ask yourself, "Have I ever done this?" If the answer is no, then you could just STFU and not look like such an arrogant prick.

But that never occurred to you, either.

Really, in my experience the division officer (in my case, the Lt. Cmdr. gave the orders and the Chief supervised the division. First Class and Second Class PO's implemented the division operations under direction and worked within their rate.

Other than boot camp and a few temp assignments I was at sea. Maybe your experience sitting in a chair was different, frankly I don't give a shit. Maybe you ought to ask yourself if the ideology you hold is good for the country. As a patriot you might consider how the avarice and bigotry and the callous disregard for other Americans which today's Republican Party advocates fits with the principles upon our nation was founded.

 

[georgephillip]

Do you really think you can build high speed rail and fiber optic networks with unskilled labor?

Reality check: No, you can't.

Yeah, Dave, you can if your principle concern is NOT short-term profit.

Can the private sector manage it?

Then YOU ride on that damn train. You won't get me near it.

Unskilled, untrained, and inexperienced people doing jobs they shouldn't is a recipe for disaster. Look at the Obama Administration.

No. Just like the private sector in the 19th century couldn't manage the construction of the transcontinental railroads without government.

Where would you be without a government stipend?

Supermax?

Someone leeching off society and advocating the government take by force and give him what he hasn't earned really shouldn't be bitching about others who earned their pensions.

Where did I say you didn't earn your pension?

I'm saying you earned what you're receiving and a whole lot more.

So did I, and so did every other productive other worker.

It's the capitalists who expect something for nothing.

 

[daveman]

I erred. Most people make errors, some are too insecure to admit so.

I do all the time. I even apologize for them.

That never occurred to you, though, did it?

So...you fucked up, and it's MY fault.

You really are not very bright, are you?

Then why do you pretend your opinion matters?

I have owned three homes and can read and follow directions. So my skill level in home repair is about that of an E-6, competent but not skilled enough to supervise others. Career wise I supervised managers who supervised supervisors.

And once again, you speak of matter of which you know nothing.

E-6s are supervisors. As an E-4, I worked unsupervised because I knew what I was doing. As an E-5, I led maintenance crews and wrote performance reports and decorations. As an E-6, I managed a billion dollars' worth of equipment. I told (respectfully) O-6s that they couldn't have the equipment they wanted. When I retired, my Director, another O-6, said he'd heard nothing but compliments for my work from those same O-6s whose requests I turned down. Generals and command chief master sergeants have given me coins for my work.

Now, do you really want to continue bloviating about construction and the military as if you know something about it? I really don't mind making you look stupid.

Or, if you'd rather, before you post, you could ask yourself, "Have I ever done this?" If the answer is no, then you could just STFU and not look like such an arrogant prick.

But that never occurred to you, either.

Really, in my experience the division officer (in my case, the Lt. Cmdr. gave the orders and the Chief supervised the division. First Class and Second Class PO's implemented the division operations under direction and worked within their rate.

Other than boot camp and a few temp assignments I was at sea.

You'd think someone as allegedly intelligent as you are could tell the difference between the Navy and the Air Force.

Guess not.

The Air Force expects initiative and self-reliance from our Airmen. Does the Navy need their widdle hands held all the time?

Maybe your experience sitting in a chair was different...

It was. I spent about half my career in a cublicle. That's when I managed the billion-dollar fleet of equipment. The other stuff I did in the field.

But, hey, nice try at minimizing my service. Too bad reality doesn't agree with your arrogant prickery.

...frankly I don't give a shit.

Of course you don't, now that I've shown your idiotic assertions to be stupid.

Maybe you ought to ask yourself if the ideology you hold is good for the country.

I have, and it is. Your problem with it is not that it's bad for the country, but that it's bad for the Democratic Party.

As a patriot you might consider how the avarice and bigotry and the callous disregard for other Americans which today's Republican Party advocates fits with the principles upon our nation was founded.

Did you know that the stereotypes and talking points you just spewed exist only in the minds of idiot leftists incapable of independent thought?

I hate to break it to you, but you're really a dumb person. No, really, you are. And every time you try to sound smart, it just totally fails. And there are few things more funny that a dumb person insisting he's smart.

 

[daveman]

Yeah, Dave, you can if your principle concern is NOT short-term profit.

Can the private sector manage it?

Then YOU ride on that damn train. You won't get me near it.

Unskilled, untrained, and inexperienced people doing jobs they shouldn't is a recipe for disaster. Look at the Obama Administration.

No. Just like the private sector in the 19th century couldn't manage the construction of the transcontinental railroads without government.

Where would you be without a government stipend?

Supermax?

Someone leeching off society and advocating the government take by force and give him what he hasn't earned really shouldn't be bitching about others who earned their pensions.

Where did I say you didn't earn your pension?

I'm saying you earned what you're receiving and a whole lot more.

So did I, and so did every other productive other worker.

It's the capitalists who expect something for nothing.

Yeah. You know you're full of bullshit, don't you?

You've made no secret of hating me and my service. NOW you expect me to believe you think I've earned my pension "killing innocent babies"?

Damn, leftists are stupid.