taxes

[yiostheoy]

everyone was all about trump's tax cuts.....and yet there has been total silence on how this effected your taxes this year as you settled? My taxes are being done and I cant wait to see the results....

so anyone...how did your taxes compare to last year?

I do my own taxes last.

I have clients that I need to take care of first.

The client with a really big mortgage is getting out of Trump's tax hike on the upper middle and lower-upper classes by renting out their home on Airbnb and renting for themselves elsewhere. Mortgage interest is still fully deductible for a rental property if you make a profit. This is for 2018 payable quarterly now.

State tax goes up too when the Fed exemptions go away, in some states.

As for me, since I rent, and since I have no kids, my taxes will go down under Trump. Same as they did under Dubya. Just not as much as for the ultra rich plutocracy.

 

[yiostheoy]

Tax rates have decreased for every income level.

No they didn't. You raised the lowest bracket from 10% to 12%. That affects up to 20,000,000 people. So right away, you raised taxes on 20 million people, out of the gate.

Secondly, the tax rate "decreases" aren't showing up in anyone's paycheck, largely, and those who are seeing it are seeing diminished returns, not like what the GOP was promising back in December and January.

It ought to be obvious, even to you that people will pay less taxes on 2018 income than they are paying for 2017 income. If you draw a paycheck, that should be reflected in reduced withholding for income taxes.

Conservatives were selling the tax cut as an immediate impact on paychecks. Even Heritage came out in January and said that people will expect to see higher after-tax pay as late as February. It is now April and most people haven't seen any increase in their after-tax pay. It was pitched in December and January by Conservatives, some of whom on these very boards, that it would show up by February.

Conor Lamb ran against the GOP Tax Scam in PA and won because of it. He came right out and attacked it, thus taking it off the table as something you can try to use in November. I believe that we will be in a recession by November anyway, so it will have the double impact of not only creating a trillion dollar deficit, but resulting in economic contraction.

If that highly likely scenario is in the cards, the GOP can not only bid their House majority goodbye, but potentially their Senate majority too.

The part that seems to twist your knickers, is the simple fact that the people and businesses that pay more taxes are getting larger tax cuts than those who pay little or no tax. That is nothing more than the manifestation of the greed and envy that has been ingrained into your soul by a bad economic education.

LOL! Corporations got a tax cut that we were promised would trickle-down and it hasn't. Most of the tax cut has gone to stock buybacks with less than 3.5 million workers seeing any kind of nominal benefit from the cut. That's less than 3% of all workers, yet 100% of businesses got a tax cut. So your math isn't working out there.

Secondly, I saw a few Conservative trolls on this thread try to pretend like they're saving $2K a year when the reality is that amounts to less than $25 a paycheck, which isn't going to help the economy grow at all. In fact, because of your tax cut, you're going to force millions of Americans to pay more for their health care when the PayGo cuts to Medicare and Social Security take effect in January 2019.

It would have taken effect in 2018, but you guys waived your own PayGo rule in order to grow the deficit to $1T.

Strange, but I still see a 10% bracket on the new tax brackets.

MFJ

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Erb
MFS

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Erb

Correct.

The top bracket dropped from 39.5% to 37%.

2% of $1 million is $20K in tax savings.

 

[yiostheoy]

i can see why you are called the derp....you have made two generalizations about me in a row...i have realized that BOTH sides lie to us and have since before this century started....when did you wake up,last year?.....

It's not a both sides thing. One side, Conservatives, told you that you'd see larger paychecks thanks to the tax cut. The fact that you're not is proof that they lied to you. WE told you that this tax cut would be nothing special for you, and that most of it goes to the rich and corporations. But you all screamed that it would somehow magically trickle down. It didn't. Rather than accept responsibility for being duped by Conservatives, you try to shirk that by saying both sides lie, which isn't true. Both sides didn't lie about this tax cut, one side did. That they did has no bearing on anything else.

Tax rates have decreased for every income level. It ought to be obvious, even to you that people will pay less taxes on 2018 income than they are paying for 2017 income. If you draw a paycheck, that should be reflected in reduced withholding for income taxes.

The part that seems to twist your knickers, is the simple fact that the people and businesses that pay more taxes are getting larger tax cuts than those who pay little or no tax. That is nothing more than the manifestation of the greed and envy that has been ingrained into your soul by a bad economic education.

Youre funny though.

"The tax ..." and "the tax rate" are two different things.

Don't forget that mortgage interest will be capped even more. This is a killer for the upper-middle and the lower-upper classes, who both still use debt to finance big ticket items like homes and boats.

And the exemptions are gone. This is a killer for big families of the working classes.

 

[The Derp]

i can see why you are called the derp....you have made two generalizations about me in a row...i have realized that BOTH sides lie to us and have since before this century started....when did you wake up,last year?.....

It's not a both sides thing. One side, Conservatives, told you that you'd see larger paychecks thanks to the tax cut. The fact that you're not is proof that they lied to you. WE told you that this tax cut would be nothing special for you, and that most of it goes to the rich and corporations. But you all screamed that it would somehow magically trickle down. It didn't. Rather than accept responsibility for being duped by Conservatives, you try to shirk that by saying both sides lie, which isn't true. Both sides didn't lie about this tax cut, one side did. That they did has no bearing on anything else.

Tax rates have decreased for every income level. It ought to be obvious, even to you that people will pay less taxes on 2018 income than they are paying for 2017 income. If you draw a paycheck, that should be reflected in reduced withholding for income taxes.

The part that seems to twist your knickers, is the simple fact that the people and businesses that pay more taxes are getting larger tax cuts than those who pay little or no tax. That is nothing more than the manifestation of the greed and envy that has been ingrained into your soul by a bad economic education.

Youre funny though.

"The tax ..." and "the tax rate" are two different things.

Don't forget that mortgage interest will be capped even more. This is a killer for the upper-middle and the lower-upper classes, who both still use debt to finance big ticket items like homes and boats.

And the exemptions are gone. This is a killer for big families of the working classes.

And it expands the deficit to $1T which automatically triggers cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security...which was the real goal of these tax cuts. Conservatives fly planes of tax cuts into the budget, then scream about the fallout being why spending has to be cut. Conservatives are fiscal terrorists.

 

[EGR one]

I think you are a little confused about this.
Whowever pays you the money does the withholding and then sends it to the filthy ass government.
The filthy ass government issues withholding guidelines based up the tax rates.
You can tell the company to withhold more or less by notifying them..

Nothing you are saying is what Conservatives promised us in December and January; that most Americans will see an increase in their take home pay immediately.

It's now April and the latest surveys show that most Americans aren't seeing any increase in their after-tax income, or the increase isn't close to what Conservatives were selling.

Most of the tax cut went right back into stock buybacks. Very little went to workers.

When a corporation buys back stock, it buys it from someone else. That money does not go into a black hole somewhere.

how is a tax cut going to reduce the deficit ?

Hopefully, by growing the tax base.

 

[The Derp]

When a corporation buys back stock, it buys it from someone else. That money does not go into a black hole somewhere.

OMFG, TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS IS A LIE AND A SCAM.

No, stock buybacks do not trickle down into the economy. Never have, never will.

Hopefully, by growing the tax base.

Which it doesn't do. Instead, it creates deficits and debt which are then used by the same people who created the deficits and debt as a means to attack the spending they are ideologically opposed to but lack the courage, support, and will to repeal through conventional legislation.

You practice fiscal terrorism when you defend and promote tax cuts.

 

[Likkmee]

Kill the debt ? Simple. Abolish the military and commence "meatheads gone wild" They'll make MS-XX look like the gurl scouts ! Unemployment will be 50% plus. The US of Venezuelastan !

 

[EGR one]

The criminal conspiracy, also known as the Democrat party, recognizes and appreciates the economic ignorance that has allowed it to prosper for over a hundred years. Greed and envy are alive and well in the good ole USA, and the Democrat party can rightly claim much credit for that.

It's the Democratic Party, not the Democrat Party.

It is actually the Communist party, but who gives a crap what you want to call it. It is still a criminal conspiracy.

Anyone with any common sense should be highly concerned about the continuous run of deficits and the consequent rise in the national debt. When your out go continually exceeds your income, you are headed for economic disaster. So, once we can agree on that, what can we do about it?

Untrue. Economic disaster doesn't come from the federal budget, it comes from a contraction of demand in the economy. Spending = demand. When you cut spending you're cutting demand...which results in an economy that contracts. Cutting spending and not replacing that spending with anything will always result in economic catastrophe.

And no, trickle-down doesn't work...so there's no corresponding increase in spending to make up for the spending lost by cuts.

Take your head out of your ass and look around the world for some very valuable lessons on why your dogma is false. Italy and Greece are good examples of what happens when government finally reach the limits of their borrowing power. Without bail outs from the EU, their governments would already have collapsed. There is no one around to bail us out.

Spending is nothing more than passing pieces of the pie around, and has little effect on economic health. Government spending today is mostly income redistribution. The only was to generate wealth is to add value to what you already have. That is true for individuals, companies, corporations, and countries If a country is not generating enough wealth to maintain the standard of living for current and future citizens, it is in decline and possibly headed for disaster.

There is no such thing as trickle down economics, and anyone who thinks there is, is either an economic dunce, a democrat, or both.

Raising taxes in the progressive solution, and that will do little beyond starving the cow that constitutes the tax base. Growing the tax base by feeding the cow is the conservative solution. Meanwhile, back at the scene of the crime, politicians are spending like there is no tomorrow, and that is ensuring that there will be no tomorrow.

They raised taxes in California in 2012 (I know because I voted for it), and now CA has a budget surplus, one of the fastest growing economies in the country, and the fastest when it comes to job creation.

I have a bridge in San Francisco that you might be interested in buying.

 

[The Derp]

It is actually the Communist party, but who gives a crap what you want to call it. It is still a criminal conspiracy.

The only criminal conspiracy involving Russia seems to be among Conservatives, Republicans, the NRA, and Trump who are all being revealed as having conspiratorial ties to Russia.

In fact, how many Trump people have been indicted for conspiracy charges? At least two that we know of...

So this seems like an instance of you using the Active Measure of projecting your own shittiness on those you perceive as your enemy.

 

[The Derp]

Take your head out of your ass and look around the world for some very valuable lessons on why your dogma is false. Italy and Greece are good examples of what happens when government finally reach the limits of their borrowing power. Without bail outs from the EU, their governments would already have collapsed. There is no one around to bail us out.

Italy and Greece both cannot control their own currency since both use the Euro, so they cannot do things on their own to counteract a financial collapse and global recession; they must borrow from the European Central Banks to do that. You don't seem to know anything about what you're speaking.

Furthermore, Greece did exactly what you wanted; it cut spending to the bone...and it didn't work.

Meanwhile, the welfare state of Kansas just had to repeal their trickle-down tax cuts because your fiscal and economic fairy tale of trickle down didn't materialize. Instead, all your trickle down did was create deficits and debt.

 

[EGR one]

When a corporation buys back stock, it buys it from someone else. That money does not go into a black hole somewhere.

OMFG, TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS IS A LIE AND A SCAM.

No, stock buybacks do not trickle down into the economy. Never have, never will.

A stock buyback is a financial transaction. Nothing less, nothing more. I sell a stock, I buy something else. Perhaps another stock, or maybe a new boat. Economics 101.

Hopefully, by growing the tax base.

Which it doesn't do. Instead, it creates deficits and debt which are then used by the same people who created the deficits and debt as a means to attack the spending they are ideologically opposed to but lack the courage, support, and will to repeal through conventional legislation.

You practice fiscal terrorism when you defend and promote tax cuts.

Do we laugh now, or is there a punch line?

You are completely clueless. You invest in your future to grow your personal economy. You invest in a company to grow the company. And, if you are halfway intelligent, you invest in the economy, to grow the economy.

 

[The Derp]

Spending is nothing more than passing pieces of the pie around, and has little effect on economic health.

Wrong. Spending is the only thing that grows GDP. Spending = demand. Economies cannot grow if there's no demand. When you cut government spending and don't replace it with anything, you're reducing demand in the economy, resulting in a contraction. And what happens when the economy contracts? We get a recession.

Government spending today is mostly income redistribution. The only was to generate wealth is to add value to what you already have. That is true for individuals, companies, corporations, and countries If a country is not generating enough wealth to maintain the standard of living for current and future citizens, it is in decline and possibly headed for disaster.

Of course this is an incorrect view of macroeconomics which will earn you an F in any school or university. If government spending didn't add value, then I suppose all the roads and infrastructure government built would have been built on its own, by itself? If we hadn't passed a National Highway Act in the 1950's, you're saying the "free market" would have constructed all those freeways itself?

There is no such thing as trickle down economics, and anyone who thinks there is, is either an economic dunce, a democrat, or both.

You're the ones who pretend that wealth trickles down, either vis-a-vis stock buybacks or increased consumption the higher your percentile climbs. But the reality is that people pretty much consume the same amount, regardless of income level, and that giving the wealthy bigger tax breaks only increases their savings, which doesn't trickle down into the economy.

That's why this GOP Tax Scam failed so miserably at doing everything except ballooning the deficit up to $1T. Last year, the deficit was $503B, but now it's $1T. That's entirely due to your shitty tax cut.

I have a bridge in San Francisco that you might be interested in buying.

Fucking idiot. If you're going to try and make this joke, at least know how to make the joke. Like everything you do, it's half-assed and without merit.

 

[DOTR]

Here you go The Derp the serf. Start with the standard deduction going from 12700 to 24000. Then observe your new tax tables as compared to the old.

I warn you that if you claim 12,700 is not less than 24000 I will just laugh at you. If you claim that 12% is more than 15% I will laugh at you. If you try to convince me that 22% is a larger number than 25% I wont even feel sorry for you. I will just laugh and point.

View attachment 185934

View attachment 185935

Sigh.

You can vomit up anything you'd like to convince yourself that the GOP Tax Scam was a good thing. We both know it wasn't, and that the miraculous $2K a year you claim you're saving comes through your paychecks incrementally, which means it adds no benefit to the economy and doesn't result in increased spending or growth.

You say you saved about $2K a year.

That comes to less than $25 a paycheck (less than $50 a check if you're paid bi-weekly).

So what are you doing with your extra $25 a paycheck? Not much. There's not much you can do for that little. That barely covers the cost of two movie tickets (but no popcorn or soda).

So once again you wiggle. You claimed there was no tax cut and now, faced with the tax tables, you have to admit to the tax cut but you dont think it is enough.
I never said how much I save a year. But no matter. I do save like most employed. If it isnt enough for you then you should have been on the phone demanding a bigger tax cut. I was. If there is one problem working Americans do not have it is being undertaxed. I cn give you the numbers of your congressmen if you want to call them and demand a larger tax cut next year.

 

[The Derp]

A stock buyback is a financial transaction. Nothing less, nothing more. I sell a stock, I buy something else. Perhaps another stock, or maybe a new boat. Economics 101.

LOL!

Stock buyback is a financial transaction that largely happens in a vacuum, which is why the stock buybacks -which has been 50% of the tax cut so far- haven't trickled down into the economy and they never will because you are trying to pretend like all Americans benefit from the stock market when the reality is that less than 50% of workers have a 401K, and the average 401k balance for someone aged 55-64 is merely $70K. One would think, with these giant tax cuts, that average balance would be much higher thanks to the "buybacks". Only it isn't, and this is just another fanciful load of horseshit you think will help your weak argument.

Do we laugh now, or is there a punch line?

There's nothing funny about your fiscal terrorism.

You are completely clueless. You invest in your future to grow your personal economy. You invest in a company to grow the company. And, if you are halfway intelligent, you invest in the economy, to grow the economy.

LOL! So what you described right there is trickle-down economics. Call it whatever the fuck you want, the principle that giving to the well-off will result in prosperity for all is a fairy tale that wasn't true when it was first vomited out 40 years ago, and isn't true today.

We were told by you people that if we cut taxes for corporations down to 22%, it would bring all these jobs "back" to the US and raise wages for everyone.

Now, no jobs have been brought back and wages have stagnated.

So it seems you're the one full of shit here.

 

[DOTR]

Here you go The Derp the serf. Start with the standard deduction going from 12700 to 24000. Then observe your new tax tables as compared to the old.

I warn you that if you claim 12,700 is not less than 24000 I will just laugh at you. If you claim that 12% is more than 15% I will laugh at you. If you try to convince me that 22% is a larger number than 25% I wont even feel sorry for you. I will just laugh and point.

View attachment 185934

View attachment 185935

Sigh.

You can vomit up anything you'd like to convince yourself that the GOP Tax Scam was a good thing. We both know it wasn't, and that the miraculous $2K a year you claim you're saving comes through your paychecks incrementally, which means it adds no benefit to the economy and doesn't result in increased spending or growth.

You say you saved about $2K a year.

That comes to less than $25 a paycheck (less than $50 a check if you're paid bi-weekly).

So what are you doing with your extra $25 a paycheck? Not much. There's not much you can do for that little. That barely covers the cost of two movie tickets (but no popcorn or soda).

You remind me of the scum I deal with as a union steward. A very recent example...one of my men missed a bump up for three days. it went to the bosses pet instead of him. He called me and I filed a grievance. In the meeting the company admitted to the mistake but the labor relations guy said "it was only 1.00 an hour for three days. 36.00 for the three days. Lets just drop this". And I said "good open your wallet and give him 36.00"

And this little bit the democrats begrudge us. Screamed like they were going to starve. Too bad. I hope they starve to death...or get a job,

You socialists are outstanding at giving away other people's money.

 

[The Derp]

You claimed there was no tax cut and now, faced with the tax tables, you have to admit to the tax cut but you dont think it is enough.

NO! What I said was that people aren't seeing the tax cut in their paychecks, and for those that do, the amount they're getting is far below what the GOP was overselling from December-January. We were told, by Conservatives, Trump, Republicans, etc. that we would see the net effect of this tax cut immediately, but no later than February. It's now April. So someone lied.

So what we have here is an instance of you not reading what was written, then trying to jury-rig it into something for which you already have a pre-loaded, unoriginal talking point ready to go.

I never said how much I save a year. But no matter. I do save like most employed. If it isnt enough for you then you should have been on the phone demanding a bigger tax cut. I was. If there is one problem working Americans do not have it is being undertaxed. I cn give you the numbers of your congressmen if you want to call them and demand a larger tax cut next year.

First of all, you're the ones who passed this tax cut. So the rates and the consequences of those rates falls squarely on you. Secondly, the tax cut was sold, marketed, and advertised as having an immediate impact on paychecks, no later than February. Paul Ryan, Donald Trump, and countless other Conservative nitwits promised that would be the case. Thirdly, as you try to pivot away from the merits of the tax cut, I notice you try to make the fact that the tax cut wasn't noticeable my fault, when you're the one who was supporting it, you're the one who wanted it, now you don't want to be held accountable for it?

FUCK. YOU.

You are accountable for it. I am making you personally accountable for it because you made it such an integral part of what you believe and who you are.

I think you're just bullshitting about it. I don't think you saw any real change in your paycheck (assuming you are even employed), but you're pretending you do because you know that no one will hold you accountable for lying on an anonymous message board.

 

[DOTR]

So what spending in Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and Defense do you want to cut?

All of them. Defense last. And never ever again create an entitlement for people like you to whine about and say "it cant be cut".
The Republicans warned that FDR's social security would metastasize eventually and destroy the budget. Did democrats listen? Did they even care?

 

[The Derp]

You remind me of the scum I deal with as a union steward. A very recent example...one of my men missed a bump up for three days. it went to the bosses pet instead of him. He called me and I filed a grievance. In the meeting the company admitted to the mistake but the labor relations guy said "it was only 1.00 an hour for three days. 36.00 for the three days. Lets just drop this". And I said "good open your wallet and give him 36.00"

Sorry, how does anything I'm saying remind you of this? You're the ones who were selling this tax scam as a boon for the economy that people will see in their paychecks right away. Only, they didn't. So now you think some half-baked story papers over that huge distinction of your promises consistently under-delivering?

You're the ones who said the GOP Tax Scam would have immediate effects for people's paychecks. It hasn't and it never will.

You socialists are outstanding at giving away other people's money.

You're the ones who just gave the wealthy $1.5T that you said would trickle down. You're the ones giving away people's money here. You're the ones who have redistributed the wealth. So go fuck yourself because we're coming for it and we're going to get it one way or another. If that means higher taxes on the wealthy and corporations, boo-fucking-hoo.

 

[The Derp]

All of them. Defense last. And never ever again create an entitlement for people like you to whine about and say "it cant be cut".

So then how are old people supposed to afford health care?

The Republicans warned that FDR's social security would metastasize eventually and destroy the budget. Did democrats listen? Did they even care?

The budget was balanced and produced surpluses before you Conservatives came along in 2001 and turned those budget surpluses into record deficits. Then, when Obama cut the last deficit you all handed to him by 2/3, you went and passed a massive tax cut that ballooned the deficit back up to $1T.

You gotta ask why you all did that? You screech like a barnyard animal about the deficit and dependency, yet you're the ones who erased a surplus, you're the ones who doubled the deficit, you're the ones who created welfare-dependent red states.

 

[EGR one]

Take your head out of your ass and look around the world for some very valuable lessons on why your dogma is false. Italy and Greece are good examples of what happens when government finally reach the limits of their borrowing power. Without bail outs from the EU, their governments would already have collapsed. There is no one around to bail us out.

Italy and Greece both cannot control their own currency since both use the Euro, so they cannot do things on their own to counteract a financial collapse and global recession; they must borrow from the European Central Banks to do that. You don't seem to know anything about what you're speaking.

Furthermore, Greece did exactly what you wanted; it cut spending to the bone...and it didn't work.

Meanwhile, the welfare state of Kansas just had to repeal their trickle-down tax cuts because your fiscal and economic fairy tale of trickle down didn't materialize. Instead, all your trickle down did was create deficits and debt.

Yes dumbass, Italy and Greece cannot devalue their currency to stave off financial collapse. What you want to ignore is the fiscal idiocy that got them there in the first place. And, no, they did not cut spending to the bone.

There is no such thing as trickle down economics, and the fact that you do not seem to understand that simple fact, is telling on your knowledge of economics. A rising tide lifts all boats. A strong and growing economy is good for everyone who participates in that economy. And yes, if the boat doesn't float, it doesn't rise.

Kansas is mainly an agricultural state, and agriculture doesn't grow much in response to lower taxes. Just about every place in Kansas that can be farmed is already being farmed.