Terrorist Murder In Jerusalem Synagogue

[Beelzebub]

... The near-collapse of Hamas during Gaza War II and their sudden caving-in to a dual control alongside Fatah is proof that the concept works.

You do know that Hamas and Fatah had agreed to unite, just before Israel attacked Gaza last time, don't you?
Some speculate that that was part of the calculation of Israel in staging the attack. As Israel doesn't want them to unite.

 

[Coyote]

Coyote, et al,

I thought it was interesting that:

• "Hamas, the militant Palestinian group that runs the Gaza Strip."
  • Gazans celebrate Israel condemns Jerusalem synagogue attack
• "Militant group the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) has claimed responsibility for the deadly attack on a Jerusalem synagogue. (International Business Times, November 18, 2014)
  • "The Front {PFLP} saluted the escalating heroic operations against Israeli soldiers and settlers in occupied Palestine, especially in the West Bank and Jerusalem, noting that this is an expected response to the crimes of the occupation and that resistance is the most effective method to defend our people against the systematic Zionist war on their existence." (FightBackNews Tuesday November 18, 2014)

Once again Israel got what Israel deserved for their treatment of Palestinians with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so the Palestinians can remain in Israel. When will Israel ever learn to treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers do in surrounding Arab countries?

Prayer massacre Three Americans among four rabbis killed as Palestinian militants storm Jerusalem synagogue - AOL.com

That's a horrible thing to happen...there's no excuse for killing people like that. I was glad to see Abbas denounce it.

Why do you feel the need to politicize it like that?

(COMMENT)

As I said previously (Posting #651: What do normal people think of Palestinians), many revolutionaries, terrorists, guerrillas, and insurgents (anti-government forces in general) attempt to masquerade as freedom fighters. But it is fairly clear that this is not a freedom fighting action. This is an act by cowards attacking the unarmed. Normally one would ask what pride there is in this? But HAMAS and the Abu Ali Mustafa Brigade have answered this for us.

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Most Respectfully,
R

When "freedom fighters" target innocents they are no different than terrorists. Most groups we call freedom fighters are little more than white-washed terrorists who were victorious. If we approve of their cause, we celebrate them. We don't approve of their cause, we denigrate them. Most of the time, it's a dishonest charade that conveniently overlooks spilled blood.

It doesn't take a "will of steel" to murder people in their place of worship. It just takes hate.

 

[Kondor3]

... The near-collapse of Hamas during Gaza War II and their sudden caving-in to a dual control alongside Fatah is proof that the concept works.

You do know that Hamas and Fatah had agreed to unite, just before Israel attacked Gaza last time, don't you?...

Yep.

Gaza War II accelerated the adoption of that agreement, too.

...Some speculate that that was part of the calculation of Israel in staging the attack. As Israel doesn't want them to unite.

Could be... could be.

 

[RoccoR]

Coyote, et al,

In this context I have to agree.

When "freedom fighters" target innocents they are no different than terrorists. Most groups we call freedom fighters are little more than white-washed terrorists who were victorious. If we approve of their cause, we celebrate them. We don't approve of their cause, we denigrate them. Most of the time, it's a dishonest charade that conveniently overlooks spilled blood.

It doesn't take a "will of steel" to murder people in their place of worship. It just takes hate.

(COMMENT)

But this is why (practical examine) the need for containment and quarantine. No reasonable people in a position of responsibility and trust would want to be responsible for exposing the general public to these savages. Hence, the need for separation; not because they are Arabs or Muslim, but because they pose a danger.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

Coyote, et al,

In this context I have to agree.

When "freedom fighters" target innocents they are no different than terrorists. Most groups we call freedom fighters are little more than white-washed terrorists who were victorious. If we approve of their cause, we celebrate them. We don't approve of their cause, we denigrate them. Most of the time, it's a dishonest charade that conveniently overlooks spilled blood.

It doesn't take a "will of steel" to murder people in their place of worship. It just takes hate.

(COMMENT)

But this is why (practical examine) the need for containment and quarantine. No reasonable people in a position of responsibility and trust would want to be responsible for exposing the general public to these savages. Hence, the need for separation; not because they are Arabs or Muslim, but because they pose a danger.

Most Respectfully,
R

I disagree that they as an entire people post a danger and should be collectively punished.

Hamas? Yes.

 

[Kondor3]

Coyote, et al,

In this context I have to agree.

When "freedom fighters" target innocents they are no different than terrorists. Most groups we call freedom fighters are little more than white-washed terrorists who were victorious. If we approve of their cause, we celebrate them. We don't approve of their cause, we denigrate them. Most of the time, it's a dishonest charade that conveniently overlooks spilled blood.

It doesn't take a "will of steel" to murder people in their place of worship. It just takes hate.

(COMMENT)

But this is why (practical examine) the need for containment and quarantine. No reasonable people in a position of responsibility and trust would want to be responsible for exposing the general public to these savages. Hence, the need for separation; not because they are Arabs or Muslim, but because they pose a danger.

Most Respectfully,
R

I disagree that they as an entire people post a danger and should be collectively punished.

Hamas? Yes.

And when the two cannot be practicably separated in connection with security needs?

 

[Beelzebub]

Some interesting stuff on Synagogue security in Jerusalem:

Israelis visiting synagogues in Western Europe for the first time are often astonished by the level of security: private security guards, community volunteers, uniformed police and advanced surveillance systems are the norm. Moreover, in the few Muslim countries with still-functioning Jewish congregations, like Turkey or Tunisia, synagogues operate in fortified compounds.

Less than two months ago, during Rosh Hashanah, the level of police presence around synagogues in North London, apparently motivated by the rising number of anti-Semitic attacks in the wake of the Gaza conflict, was unprecedented. This has all become standard in parts of the world where synagogues have been terrorist targets by Palestinians and Islamist groups since the 1970s. These security measures seem to have worked. The two deadly attacks on Jewish targets in 2012 in Toulouse, France, and earlier this year in Brussels, Belgium, were on a school and a museum respectively, both with considerably less security than nearby synagogues.

In Israel, however, the scene of a plethora of attacks and suicide bombings over the decades, synagogues have not been protected to the same extent as, say, shopping malls and schools. With the exception of a tiny handful of large, well-financed houses of worship, the thousands of small and medium-sized and even big neighborhood synagogues remain wide open. While Israelis are used to having an armed security guard inspect them when entering nearly every supermarket, mall and cinema, there is something jarring to them about restricting entrance to a synagogue. At one point during the Second Intifada, the police suggested that members place one of their own at the door during the High Holy Days, as deterrence, but the practice did not last for long.

Incredible as it may sound, Tuesday morning's terror attack on the Kehilat Bnei Torah synagogue in Jerusalem's Har Nof neighborhood, in which four worshippers and one police officer were killed by Palestinian terrorists from Jabel Mukaber in East Jerusalem, was the first of its kind in living memory on a local synagogue. There was of course the 2008 attack on the Merkaz Harav yeshiva, which technically also served as a synagogue, not far from today's murder scene. In that attack, eight students were murdered.

The exact number of synagogues in Israel is unknown. Unlike many well-appointed Jewish houses of worship in the Diaspora, most in Israel are small and locally-funded, with many situated in bomb shelters and ground-floor apartments, or in halls rented out by schools and community centers. While some have been in existence for decades, new synagogues are established every week as communities grow or split over arcane disputes. There are thousands of synagogues in Jerusalem alone.

In the wake of Tuesday's terror attack in Har Nof, Sephardi Chief Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef issued an edictsaying that prayers must be held only in synagogues with a security guard. However, there is no realistic way that these security measures can be implemented, given the vast amount of synagogues.

It took years and protracted arguments between the various authorities and government departments to secure funding for security guards at all of Israel's thousands of schools, and this massive undertaking is still not complete. Securing all of Israel's synagogues is an impossible task and no congregation is about to give up its location because the chief rabbi, who has a miniscule following, if he has one at all, says so.

No one can say for sure why terrorists had not yet targeted a local synagogue until Tuesday morning's attack. The most plausible reason is that they are less convenient targets than public transport or coffee shops, usually being open just twice a day for an hour or so at a time during morning and afternoon-evening prayers. Also, synagogues afford little cover for terrorists as they would be immediately noticed upon entering. Even in disguise, an attacker who does not know how to conduct himself in a synagogue immediately sticks out like a sore thumb.

In Tuesday morning's attack, one of the terrorists was apparently acquainted with the targeted synagogue as he worked at an adjacent grocery shop. He would have known that at 7 A.M., the synagogue would be crowded, allowing him and his accomplice to quickly move between congregants, hacking away at the worshippers.

Attack on worshipers in synagogue sets deadly precedent - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News Haaretz

So Synagogues are soft targets, and likely to remain as soft targets for quite some time.
Peace now, with equality and justice would be a very good idea for all those wishing to worship in Jerusalem / Al Quds.

 

[Coyote]

Coyote, et al,

In this context I have to agree.

When "freedom fighters" target innocents they are no different than terrorists. Most groups we call freedom fighters are little more than white-washed terrorists who were victorious. If we approve of their cause, we celebrate them. We don't approve of their cause, we denigrate them. Most of the time, it's a dishonest charade that conveniently overlooks spilled blood.

It doesn't take a "will of steel" to murder people in their place of worship. It just takes hate.

(COMMENT)

But this is why (practical examine) the need for containment and quarantine. No reasonable people in a position of responsibility and trust would want to be responsible for exposing the general public to these savages. Hence, the need for separation; not because they are Arabs or Muslim, but because they pose a danger.

Most Respectfully,
R

I disagree that they as an entire people post a danger and should be collectively punished.

Hamas? Yes.

And when the two cannot be practicably separated in connection with security needs?

I don't believe they can't. I strongly suspect the claim that they can't is merely an excuse to move them off their lands.

SK and NK managed. P and I can do so.

 

[toastman]

Sure, just kill more innocent people, that's the solution. Funny though - that's what they've been doing for 50 years now...hasn't worked very well.

Thing is, the Israeli powers are really not very bothered by this. Not by anyone dying on any side, however innocent.
Like the NRA in the US, their only question is:

"How can use use this to forward our agenda?"

In that respect, if Zionist Central could arrange to have a Synagogue attack every week, they would, as they could make use of every one.

Pure Weezle Scum

 

[Kondor3]

...I don't believe they can't...

And, of course, others hold differently, and, in the case of Israel, act accordingly.

...I strongly suspect the claim that they can't is merely an excuse to move them off their lands...

There may be some truth in that observation, but, in truth, the Israelis aren't making excuses for evictions and re-taskings of land - they're just doing it, without the excuses.

...SK and NK managed. P and I can do so.

SK and NK are part of the same ethnic/cultural/heritage mix.

P and I are apples and oranges, so... mebbe not, after all.

I'm not saying that merely to be argumentative.

I'm genuinely convinced that this is now the way of things.

I wish it could be otherwise, but such windows of opportunity are years or decades behind us now.

 

[Kondor3]

...So Synagogues are soft targets, and likely to remain as soft targets for quite some time...

Then it is, indeed, time to begin taking-out mosques in Rump Palestine, on at least a 10-to-1 ratio. Your (side's) choice.

...Peace now, with equality and justice would be a very good idea for all those wishing to worship in Jerusalem / Al Quds.

Impossible now, quite probably. Only one side or the other will remain on that land. And, somehow, I doubt that it will be the current residents of Rump Palestine.

 

[Beelzebub]

...So Synagogues are soft targets, and likely to remain as soft targets for quite some time...

Then it is, indeed, time to begin taking-out mosques in Rump Palestine, on at least a 10-to-1 ratio. Your (side's) choice.

...Peace now, with equality and justice would be a very good idea for all those wishing to worship in Jerusalem / Al Quds.

Impossible now, quite probably. Only one side or the other will remain on that land. And, somehow, I doubt that it will be the current residents of Rump Palestine.

I think if Israel is planning to sweep Palestinians out it had better have alerted the US to us its arms production beyond what it has ever done before.
And to alert its industry to be closed to exports. And most imports.

Israel cannot do to Jerusalem what it did to Gaza, and even in Gaza it only fought to a new stand off.

As I say Kondor. You need to stop thinking in comic-book terms.

 

[Kondor3]

...So Synagogues are soft targets, and likely to remain as soft targets for quite some time...

Then it is, indeed, time to begin taking-out mosques in Rump Palestine, on at least a 10-to-1 ratio. Your (side's) choice.

...Peace now, with equality and justice would be a very good idea for all those wishing to worship in Jerusalem / Al Quds.

Impossible now, quite probably. Only one side or the other will remain on that land. And, somehow, I doubt that it will be the current residents of Rump Palestine.

I think if Israel is planning to sweep Palestinians out it had better have alerted the US to us its arms production beyond what it has ever done before.
And to alert its industry to be closed to exports. And most imports.

Israel cannot do to Jerusalem what it did to Gaza, and even in Gaza it only fought to a new stand off.

As I say Kondor. You need to stop thinking in comic-book terms.

Feel free to continue in your arrogant complacency that such things cannot and will not happen.

Such a mindset will make it far easier to do what needs to be done, and to surprise you(r side) with its advent, when the time comes.

For now, let's see what Bibi has in mind, for a response... he's on CNN, live, as I write this.

 

[Beelzebub]

...So Synagogues are soft targets, and likely to remain as soft targets for quite some time...

Then it is, indeed, time to begin taking-out mosques in Rump Palestine, on at least a 10-to-1 ratio. Your (side's) choice.

...Peace now, with equality and justice would be a very good idea for all those wishing to worship in Jerusalem / Al Quds.

Impossible now, quite probably. Only one side or the other will remain on that land. And, somehow, I doubt that it will be the current residents of Rump Palestine.

I think if Israel is planning to sweep Palestinians out it had better have alerted the US to us its arms production beyond what it has ever done before.
And to alert its industry to be closed to exports. And most imports.

Israel cannot do to Jerusalem what it did to Gaza, and even in Gaza it only fought to a new stand off.

As I say Kondor. You need to stop thinking in comic-book terms.

Feel free to continue in your arrogant complacency that such things cannot and will not happen.

Such a mindset will make it far easier to do what needs to be done, and to surprise you(r side) with its advent, when the time comes.

For now, let's see what Biib has in mind, for a response... he's on CNN, live, as I write this.

They may.
But the consequences for Israel would be devastating. And despite evidence to the contrary, we can expect the strategists in Israel to know there are things that would destroy them, after an apparent advance.

 

[Phoenall]

I don't believe in any violence, but we have lots of it here, but it feels worst when it hits home doesn't it. I guess some Jews are still praying and worship who was it Goldstein, who did the massacre on the Pals while they were worshipping.

I see they
The family of the men said Israeli forces raided their homes following the attack and detained 12 family members, including Abu Jamal's wife, mother, and brothers Munther, Jamal, Imade, Murad, and Muawiya.

Good thing that doesn't happen in the states yet of course members of the families are questioned,

Yes Israel has itself to thank to push people to such limits.

Then don't complain when Israel retaliates and bombs a mosque will you................

 

[Phoenall]

Once again Israel got what Israel deserved for their treatment of Palestinians with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so the Palestinians can remain in Israel. When will Israel ever learn to treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers do in surrounding Arab countries?

Prayer massacre Three Americans among four rabbis killed as Palestinian militants storm Jerusalem synagogue - AOL.com

That's a horrible thing to happen...there's no excuse for killing people like that. I was glad to see Abbas denounce it.

Why do you feel the need to politicize it like that?

Did he, or did he have his fingers crossed. What odds will you give me that he praises the terrorist murderers when next he speaks to the Palestinians................

 

[Phoenall]

I don't believe in any violence, but we have lots of it here, but it feels worst when it hits home doesn't it. I guess some Jews are still praying and worship who was it Goldstein, who did the massacre on the Pals while they were worshipping.

I see they
The family of the men said Israeli forces raided their homes following the attack and detained 12 family members, including Abu Jamal's wife, mother, and brothers Munther, Jamal, Imade, Murad, and Muawiya.

Good thing that doesn't happen in the states yet of course members of the families are questioned,

Yes Israel has itself to thank to push people to such limits.

In the end - people are in control of their own actions. They can choose to attack unarmed innocents or they can attack other targets. When they do something like this - it doesn't help their cause at all.

And yes, Goldstein is still worshipped and made excuses for in some areas, particularly by settlers - but it's not mainstream.

The reprisals will begin and the Palestinians will suffer greatly for these murders, they have it in their control to bring a halt to the killings just arrest all the terrorists and agree to talks.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Watching the coverage here. Hope the police officer wounded pulls through. Logged in angry, but reading this thread, I find myself asking "do I wanna join this fray? Be like them?" ...No. It happened, getting upset about it wont change anything and only harm myself. I'm saddened, for everyone involved. For the Palestinians who had so little in life to love and cherish that this act seemed like a good idea, for their victims who should have been safe in a synagogue, and for those who responded and had to see the aftermath. CNN has some crime scene photos of blood covered floors. I'm not angry any more. Just sad. This is all just sad.

 

[Phoenall]

Time to teach a terrible and frightful lesson as retaliation against those who perpetrated this outrage.

Attack 1 synagogue?

Flatten ten mosques in Rump Palestine.

Kill 4 rabbis?

Kill 40 Hamas leaders in Rump Palestine.

A 10-to-1 kill-ratio, to begin wityh.

If that isn't enough, increase the ratio.

As often as it takes.

Until the message finally gets through those thick Neanderthal skulls in Rump Palestine.

Sure, just kill more innocent people, that's the solution. Funny though - that's what they've been doing for 50 years now...hasn't worked very well.

If they had been doing that gaza would have been flattened 45 years ago, and not rebuilt at Israeli expence. Then gaza would have been a wasteland of refugee camps and cemeteries and a staging post for Israeli troops

 

[Phoenall]

...So Synagogues are soft targets, and likely to remain as soft targets for quite some time...

Then it is, indeed, time to begin taking-out mosques in Rump Palestine, on at least a 10-to-1 ratio. Your (side's) choice.

...Peace now, with equality and justice would be a very good idea for all those wishing to worship in Jerusalem / Al Quds.

Impossible now, quite probably. Only one side or the other will remain on that land. And, somehow, I doubt that it will be the current residents of Rump Palestine.

I think if Israel is planning to sweep Palestinians out it had better have alerted the US to us its arms production beyond what it has ever done before.
And to alert its industry to be closed to exports. And most imports.

Israel cannot do to Jerusalem what it did to Gaza, and even in Gaza it only fought to a new stand off.

As I say Kondor. You need to stop thinking in comic-book terms.

Feel free to continue in your arrogant complacency that such things cannot and will not happen.

Such a mindset will make it far easier to do what needs to be done, and to surprise you(r side) with its advent, when the time comes.

For now, let's see what Biib has in mind, for a response... he's on CNN, live, as I write this.

They may.
But the consequences for Israel would be devastating. And despite evidence to the contrary, we can expect the strategists in Israel to know there are things that would destroy them, after an apparent advance.

The consequences for the Palestinians are horrendous as the west is looking to sanctions and action against them. Expect friendly nations to now take Israel's side and demand UN action against the Palestinians. I wonder what Santa is bringing the Palestinians this year ?