Texas senate approves open carry law

[M14 Shooter]

Guns are fine, it's the people that that have guns that need to be controlled. How do we control people? Well drivers must be licensed, as do doctors and lawyers and teachers and pilots and tour guides and insurance sales persons, and all of these people have some training and have demonstrated some competence and abilities to handle the responsibility assoicated with their vocation or avocation.

None of these are rights, and so none of these examples support your argument.

Why do we not require the same from those who want to own, possess or want to have in their custody and control a gun?

Owning and using a gun us a right protected from infringement by the Constitution.
Aside from that.... under the Constitution, the government cannot require you to ask it permission or meet some arbitrary of competence before you can exercise ANY right.

If the answer is the Second Amendment, maybe its time - 2 + centuries after it was signed into the law - to modify this law in a minor manner?

See: US Constitution, article V.
Good luck.
Until you change it, you don't get to pretend its not there.

Let's allow the individual states the authority to require a license of anyone who wants to own, etc. a firearm.

You;d have to change the 14th amendment then, as the rights, privileges and immunities of US citizens are protected from actions by the states.

 

[2aguy]

Does Texas need more guns?

1963 JFK Assassinated
1966 Texas Tower massacre
1991 Lubys massacre
1993 Waco massacre
2009 Ft Hood massacre
2014 Ft Hood massacre Part II

I don't think Texans and guns are a good mix

Yeah.....all cases of gun free zones, or government homicide....Luby's, and Fort Hood and The tower massacre...gun free zones.....except for the killers......waco...government manslaughter........

In Luby's...Susana Gratia Hupp had a permit to carry...just not in Luby's cafe....when the killer broke that law and started killing people, she didn't have her gun to stop him and both her parents were killed....dittos Fort Hood, the two shooters broke the law and carried guns on the Fort grounds....and killed disarmed soldiers at will.........

And in all the cases you pointed out.....the thing that stopped all the killers.....sending in good guys with more guns, not less guns.....

Would things be easier if I could just sling my AR-15 over my shoulder and walk in to Lubys without anyone being concerned? Give me a good chance to scope out who else is carrying and pick out my first targets

More guns are not the solution to every confrontation. In practice, they tend to make things worse

Well, since most people would still carry their guns concealed, it wouldn't help....you would still never know who actually had a gun....and if you had a rifle slung......everyone would see it, and if you started to act in an aggressive and violent manner, it is much easier to unholster a pistol than it is to unsling a rifle......

But more guns are the solution to many other problems...in particular, violent criminal attack when the police aren't around...and then a gun makes the situation a lot better for the victim.....

 

[Wry Catcher]

I have no problem with following the law,

And so, you have no issue with open carry, where legal.
Thank you.

That is correct. But I stand by my comment, anyone who openly carries or conceals a gun which is unloaded is stupid

There's no reason to have gun on you unless you are able to use it immediately.

Q. Do you ever leave a firearm in car, locked of course, when the car will be out of your sight?

Ever? Yes -- like when I walk into the post office. No choice.

I agree, there is no reason to openly carry an unloaded gun. And yet, many kooks were flooding coffee houses armed with supposedly unloaded guns.

Nothing I saw in that regard indicated the rifles were unloaded.
They may not have had a round in the chamber, but that's no the same thing.

I'd research your last comment if I were you. An inserted and loaded magazine is a loaded weapon notwithstanding the fact that a round has not been chambered.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And so, you have no issue with open carry, where legal.
Thank you.

That is correct. But I stand by my comment, anyone who openly carries or conceals a gun which is unloaded is stupid

There's no reason to have gun on you unless you are able to use it immediately.

Q. Do you ever leave a firearm in car, locked of course, when the car will be out of your sight?

Ever? Yes -- like when I walk into the post office. No choice.

I agree, there is no reason to openly carry an unloaded gun. And yet, many kooks were flooding coffee houses armed with supposedly unloaded guns.

Nothing I saw in that regard indicated the rifles were unloaded.
They may not have had a round in the chamber, but that's no the same thing.

I'd research your last comment if I were you. An inserted and loaded magazine is a loaded weapon notwithstanding the fact that a round has not been chambered.

I'd pay attention to what people write before I responded if I were you.
Why don't you read what I said and get back to me.

 

[2aguy]

And so, you have no issue with open carry, where legal.
Thank you.

That is correct. But I stand by my comment, anyone who openly carries or conceals a gun which is unloaded is stupid

There's no reason to have gun on you unless you are able to use it immediately.

Q. Do you ever leave a firearm in car, locked of course, when the car will be out of your sight?

Ever? Yes -- like when I walk into the post office. No choice.

I agree, there is no reason to openly carry an unloaded gun. And yet, many kooks were flooding coffee houses armed with supposedly unloaded guns.

Nothing I saw in that regard indicated the rifles were unloaded.
They may not have had a round in the chamber, but that's no the same thing.

I'd research your last comment if I were you. An inserted and loaded magazine is a loaded weapon notwithstanding the fact that a round has not been chambered.

That depends on the state......

 

[Wry Catcher]

1.1. “Loaded”

A firearm is “loaded” when there is:

an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot,
in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm…including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.4

CA law, Penal Code:

Defining loaded in California - Calguns Foundation Wiki

 

[2aguy]

1.1. “Loaded”

A firearm is “loaded” when there is:

an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot,
in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm…including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.4

CA law, Penal Code:

Defining loaded in California - Calguns Foundation Wiki

California....not in every state......and that state is gun grabber paradise....a gun is not loaded until a round is chambered....you can pull the trigger all day long and if there is no round in the chamber it is not going to fire...hence...it is not loaded....no matter the silliness in California.....

 

[bgr39]

What pressing issue requires open carry in downtown Dallas, Houston, San Antonio or Austin? Does the law also allow guns in private restaurants or bars? Is that wise (I not asking if it's legal)? Can the shop keeper post "No Guns Allowed", or is the business owner only allowed to outlaw smoking within his/her establishment?

Texas is a "force of law state", that means that IF there is a "no guns" sign posted and you bring a gun in there, concealed or open-carry, you are subject to arrest.
Of course, the people that post "no gun" signs will be missing out on a lot of business.

 

[bgr39]

I would still continue to conceal carry, it offers more options.

ONE option for concealed-carry is the criminal will be totally surprised when he is suddenly is looking down the barrel of a loaded firearm. heh, heh, heh!

 

[bgr39]

1.1. “Loaded”

A firearm is “loaded” when there is:

an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot,
in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm…including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.4

CA law, Penal Code:

Defining loaded in California - Calguns Foundation Wiki

California....not in every state......and that state is gun grabber paradise....a gun is not loaded until a round is chambered....you can pull the trigger all day long and if there is no round in the chamber it is not going to fire...hence...it is not loaded....no matter the silliness in California.....

CALIFORNIA ............ The land of fruits and nuts!!!

 

[bgr39]

A couple of years ago we went to a pub for lunch in Flagstaff, AZ. On the door was a sign, no guns allowed. The place was packed, it didn't seems to effect the owners business and the waitress said she felt safer now that those served alcohol were not armed.

I understand there are two sides to this argument, what I don't understand is why so many people feel the need to carry a gun all of the time. My first job in LE required us to carry a gun, on the clock and off. It was a pain in the ass going surfing, going to the gym and playing softball and basketball.

Maybe you could tell me which states allows someone to conceal-carry while sitting in a pub, bar, or any place ..... while you are drinking alcoholic drinks.
Personally, I don't know of any states, of course, I am not a walking gun-law- book for every state in the union.

 

[bgr39]

I understand there are two sides to this argument, what I don't understand is why so many people feel the need to carry a gun all of the time.

And because -you- do not understand this, people should not be able to exercise their right to do so?

I have no problem with following the law, I do believe anyone who owns, possesses or has in his custody or control a gun needs to have insurance and have completed a background check to verify he or she is sane, sober and has never been convicted of a crime of violence - misdemeanor or felony. I wonder if you could pass such a check.

Other than "having insurance on your firearm", all the rest IS checked before you can legally buy a firearm in the US.
Federal form 4473, and it is a felony to lie of that form.
NICS that "qualifies" you are legally eligible to buy a firearm BEFORE you can take possession of it.

 

[bgr39]

Guess I'd better get that CC permit so I can play John Wayne at Wal-Mart as well. I wouldn't want to miss the game.

Sorry, they don't allow the weak-minded to possess or carry firearms.
You'll just have to walk around unarmed!

 

[Nosmo King]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

 

[bgr39]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

And just how many people with CCW's, outta 10 to 15 million CCW's in the USA, do the outrageous shit that you spew above?

 

[Nosmo King]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

And just how many people with CCW's, outta 10 to 15 million CCW's in the USA, do the outrageous shit that you spew above?

Every week we hear of reports about a toddler shooting a gun left within her reach or someone 'holstering' her weapon and then it discharges or how kids found Dad's gun with tragic consequences.

The gubn culture has painted a thin veneer of 'safety and security' over carrying guns. by first instilling fear "You need a gun for defense" in spite of the fact most folks do not encounter the Rambo scenario they secretly hope for when they decide to pack heat.

 

[Wry Catcher]

1.1. “Loaded”

A firearm is “loaded” when there is:

an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot,
in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm…including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.4

CA law, Penal Code:

Defining loaded in California - Calguns Foundation Wiki

California....not in every state......and that state is gun grabber paradise....a gun is not loaded until a round is chambered....you can pull the trigger all day long and if there is no round in the chamber it is not going to fire...hence...it is not loaded....no matter the silliness in California.....

CALIFORNIA ............ The land of fruits and nuts!!!

Gee, how clever. The first time I learned about Texans was in Navy Boot Camp in early 1967. My company included Californian's like me, and a large group from Texas, plus a bit smaller one from Arkansas. The Texans were cocky, arrogant and in all honesty dumb.

The all held bigoted and ignorant opinions about California, and those of us who were born here. That didn't last long, since Navy Boot Camp was both physical and mental. My favorite stories include going to the pool and learning how to abandon ship from a bridge over a swimming pool.

We all lined up in our dungarees and white hats, sans our boondockers, and were told to cross our legs at the ankle and hold our arms at our sides, and on the whistle step off the platform. The drop was maybe 30 feet, and most of us followed directions. A couple chickened out, one being an overweight Texas lad who was dumb as a hammer and as arrogant as only a Texan can be. The Chief walked up behind this lad and put a boot to his ass. He went in belly flop much to our pleasure.

The other time was in the shot line, being a smart ass and being close to the front of the line, I went behind a screen where the shots were administered and said loudly, "holy shit, that's the biggest needle I've ever seen". A moment later I walked out holding my arm and pretending to be in pain.

The other guys caught on as they watched one of our members drift to the back of the line, by the time he got his turn he was really scared. As he went behind the screen we heard him say, "Oh, fuck you guys" causing a couple of dozen of us to laugh at the poor jerk.

The guys from Arkansas were generally quite, polite and curious - a sign IMO of intelligence. As the owner of a Border Collie, it is my considered opinion that my Dog is much more curious than those Texans, and better socialized.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

And just how many people with CCW's, outta 10 to 15 million CCW's in the USA, do the outrageous shit that you spew above?

How many really needed the gun, and more importantly, how many put themselves in predicaments they might not if they had not been armed?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Guns are fine, it's the people that that have guns that need to be controlled. How do we control people? Well drivers must be licensed, as do doctors and lawyers and teachers and pilots and tour guides and insurance sales persons, and all of these people have some training and have demonstrated some competence and abilities to handle the responsibility assoicated with their vocation or avocation.

None of these are rights, and so none of these examples support your argument.

Why do we not require the same from those who want to own, possess or want to have in their custody and control a gun?

Owning and using a gun us a right protected from infringement by the Constitution.
Aside from that.... under the Constitution, the government cannot require you to ask it permission or meet some arbitrary of competence before you can exercise ANY right.

If the answer is the Second Amendment, maybe its time - 2 + centuries after it was signed into the law - to modify this law in a minor manner?

See: US Constitution, article V.
Good luck.
Until you change it, you don't get to pretend its not there.

Let's allow the individual states the authority to require a license of anyone who wants to own, etc. a firearm.

You;d have to change the 14th amendment then, as the rights, privileges and immunities of US citizens are protected from actions by the states.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I understand there are two sides to this argument, what I don't understand is why so many people feel the need to carry a gun all of the time.

And because -you- do not understand this, people should not be able to exercise their right to do so?

I have no problem with following the law, I do believe anyone who owns, possesses or has in his custody or control a gun needs to have insurance and have completed a background check to verify he or she is sane, sober and has never been convicted of a crime of violence - misdemeanor or felony. I wonder if you could pass such a check.

Other than "having insurance on your firearm", all the rest IS checked before you can legally buy a firearm in the US.
Federal form 4473, and it is a felony to lie of that form.
NICS that "qualifies" you are legally eligible to buy a firearm BEFORE you can take possession of it.

We all know private party sales are rarely lawful. IMO, If gun owners were licensed and sold a firearm to someone not licensed they would lose their license and be arrested, charged and if convicted lose their first amendment rights.