Texas senate approves open carry law

[M14 Shooter]

We all know private party sales are rarely lawful.

^^^
This is a lie.

 

[Wry Catcher]

We all know private party sales are rarely lawful.

^^^
This is a lie.

How do you know? Guns stolen in a burglary, or from one's car are usually sold, do you suppose the gun sale is lawful recorded. Oh, and yes I have first hand knowledge of such gun sales.

 

[M14 Shooter]

We all know private party sales are rarely lawful.

This is a lie.

How do you know?

More importantly: how do YOU know?
You don't, and you know you don't.
Thus a lie.
People with sound positions do not need to lie to make their point.

 

[rightwinger]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

And just how many people with CCW's, outta 10 to 15 million CCW's in the USA, do the outrageous shit that you spew above?

How many really needed the gun, and more importantly, how many put themselves in predicaments they might not if they had not been armed?

Swallowing your pride and walking away doesn't seem to be much of an option when you are carrying a gun

 

[rightwinger]

I understand there are two sides to this argument, what I don't understand is why so many people feel the need to carry a gun all of the time.

And because -you- do not understand this, people should not be able to exercise their right to do so?

I have no problem with following the law, I do believe anyone who owns, possesses or has in his custody or control a gun needs to have insurance and have completed a background check to verify he or she is sane, sober and has never been convicted of a crime of violence - misdemeanor or felony. I wonder if you could pass such a check.

Other than "having insurance on your firearm", all the rest IS checked before you can legally buy a firearm in the US.
Federal form 4473, and it is a felony to lie of that form.
NICS that "qualifies" you are legally eligible to buy a firearm BEFORE you can take possession of it.

We all know private party sales are rarely lawful. IMO, If gun owners were licensed and sold a firearm to someone not licensed they would lose their license and be arrested, charged and if convicted lose their first amendment rights.

I agree and that is the key to stopping the flow of guns to those who shouldn't have them

You can have all the checks you want at gun shops but once that gun is sold it can be sold to anyone

Thank the NRA

 

[Nosmo King]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

And just how many people with CCW's, outta 10 to 15 million CCW's in the USA, do the outrageous shit that you spew above?

How many really needed the gun, and more importantly, how many put themselves in predicaments they might not if they had not been armed?

Swallowing your pride and walking away doesn't seem to be much of an option when you are carrying a gun

The reason they buy guns and want so desperately to use them is because they have bought into the culture of fear the gun lobby and culture has so carefully crafted. Everyone wants to be a hero. Dirty Harry coolly taking aim at a 'bad guy'. Rambo coming into a situation guns a'blazin'. And they all think that they live on the set of Escape from New York. Criminals are an everyday occurrence according to these gun nuts.

Now, when was the last time anyone actually faced a life or death situation on the streets of America? It happens all the time, in the movies. But when has anyone actually NEEDED a gun for defense?

Wanna be a cowboy? Wanna be an action movies star? Wanna compensate for some other shortcoming? Buy a gun and carry it openly. Above and beyond the hero status you might think, you are showing the world that, in your judgment, you can handle a crisis situation with the cool and aplomb of anything you can imagine.

March 31, 1981. Four men are grievously wounded by gun fire on the streets of Washington, D.C. Two of these wounded were carrying guns themselves. Another was wounded in the head rendering him paralyzed. The fourth was the President of the United States. He was surrounded by the best armed, best trained cadre of security personnel in history.

Now, Mom goes to the grocer with a side arm strapped to her waist. Does she have the same level of expertise the Secret Service has? Could she be responsible enough that her gun fire does not wound or kill innocent bystanders? Can a third grade teacher keep her cool with twenty or more screaming, panicking children in her charge?

The level of thought involved in these gun laws begins and ends with a misinterpretation of the Second Amendment. There are weapons that belong in the hands of a well regulated militia, not on our streets.

 

[rightwinger]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

And just how many people with CCW's, outta 10 to 15 million CCW's in the USA, do the outrageous shit that you spew above?

How many really needed the gun, and more importantly, how many put themselves in predicaments they might not if they had not been armed?

Swallowing your pride and walking away doesn't seem to be much of an option when you are carrying a gun

The reason they buy guns and want so desperately to use them is because they have bought into the culture of fear the gun lobby and culture has so carefully crafted. Everyone wants to be a hero. Dirty Harry coolly taking aim at a 'bad guy'. Rambo coming into a situation guns a'blazin'. And they all think that they live on the set of Escape from New York. Criminals are an everyday occurrence according to these gun nuts.

Now, when was the last time anyone actually faced a life or death situation on the streets of America? It happens all the time, in the movies. But when has anyone actually NEEDED a gun for defense?

Wanna be a cowboy? Wanna be an action movies star? Wanna compensate for some other shortcoming? Buy a gun and carry it openly. Above and beyond the hero status you might think, you are showing the world that, in your judgment, you can handle a crisis situation with the cool and aplomb of anything you can imagine.

March 31, 1980. Four men are grievously wounded by gun fire on the streets of Washington, D.C. Two of these wounded were carrying guns themselves. Another was wounded in the head rendering him paralyzed. The fourth was the President of the United States. He was surrounded by the best armed, best trained cadre of security personnel in history.

Now, Mom goes to the grocer with a side arm strapped to her waist. Does she have the same level of expertise the Secret Service has? Could she be responsible enough that her gun fire does not wound or kill innocent bystanders? Can a third grade teacher keep her cool with twenty or more screaming, panicking children in her charge?

The level of thought involved in these gun laws begins and ends with a misinterpretation of the Second Amendment. There are weapons that belong in the hands of a well regulated militia, not on our streets.

Just reading some of the posts on this thread and you get the impression not of mature, well qualified gun owners but of Ralphie in Christmas Story fantasizing about shooting bad guys with his Red Ryder

Just let one of them bad guys try to take my stuff.....I'll kill em where they stand

 

[2aguy]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

If you actually paid attention you would know that more Americans than ever own and carry guns for protection...right now....and the gun murder rate is going down, not up...and the gun accident rate is going down, not up.....so your post is simple ignorance and a lack of knowledge of the subject......

 

[2aguy]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

And just how many people with CCW's, outta 10 to 15 million CCW's in the USA, do the outrageous shit that you spew above?

Every week we hear of reports about a toddler shooting a gun left within her reach or someone 'holstering' her weapon and then it discharges or how kids found Dad's gun with tragic consequences.

The gubn culture has painted a thin veneer of 'safety and security' over carrying guns. by first instilling fear "You need a gun for defense" in spite of the fact most folks do not encounter the Rambo scenario they secretly hope for when they decide to pack heat.

There are over 320 million people in the U.S. and over 320 million guns in private hands and on top of that there are over 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense....and each year on average Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives 1.6 million times.....

How many children are accidentally killed with guns......less than 100......

I assume you can do simple math......

 

[Nosmo King]

If Ford or GM or Hasbro made a product that is responsible for thousands of deaths each year by simoply using that product, there would be a national outcry for banning such products.

But guns are too cool for that.

 

[2aguy]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

And just how many people with CCW's, outta 10 to 15 million CCW's in the USA, do the outrageous shit that you spew above?

How many really needed the gun, and more importantly, how many put themselves in predicaments they might not if they had not been armed?

Swallowing your pride and walking away doesn't seem to be much of an option when you are carrying a gun

Actually it is more than an option...the consequences for even a justified defensive shooting can be a nightmare....your delusions about how people who choose to carry a gun for protection are sadly wrong......

 

[2aguy]

If Ford or GM or Hasbro made a product that is responsible for thousands of deaths each year by simoply using that product, there would be a national outcry for banning such products.

But guns are too cool for that.

But guns don't fit that category....since on average guns stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives 1.6 million times a year.....over the gun murder rate of 8-9,000 a year and over the accidental gun death rate of 6-700 a year......

You can do math...right?

 

[2aguy]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

And just how many people with CCW's, outta 10 to 15 million CCW's in the USA, do the outrageous shit that you spew above?

How many really needed the gun, and more importantly, how many put themselves in predicaments they might not if they had not been armed?

Swallowing your pride and walking away doesn't seem to be much of an option when you are carrying a gun

The reason they buy guns and want so desperately to use them is because they have bought into the culture of fear the gun lobby and culture has so carefully crafted. Everyone wants to be a hero. Dirty Harry coolly taking aim at a 'bad guy'. Rambo coming into a situation guns a'blazin'. And they all think that they live on the set of Escape from New York. Criminals are an everyday occurrence according to these gun nuts.

Now, when was the last time anyone actually faced a life or death situation on the streets of America? It happens all the time, in the movies. But when has anyone actually NEEDED a gun for defense?

Wanna be a cowboy? Wanna be an action movies star? Wanna compensate for some other shortcoming? Buy a gun and carry it openly. Above and beyond the hero status you might think, you are showing the world that, in your judgment, you can handle a crisis situation with the cool and aplomb of anything you can imagine.

March 31, 1981. Four men are grievously wounded by gun fire on the streets of Washington, D.C. Two of these wounded were carrying guns themselves. Another was wounded in the head rendering him paralyzed. The fourth was the President of the United States. He was surrounded by the best armed, best trained cadre of security personnel in history.

Now, Mom goes to the grocer with a side arm strapped to her waist. Does she have the same level of expertise the Secret Service has? Could she be responsible enough that her gun fire does not wound or kill innocent bystanders? Can a third grade teacher keep her cool with twenty or more screaming, panicking children in her charge?

The level of thought involved in these gun laws begins and ends with a misinterpretation of the Second Amendment. There are weapons that belong in the hands of a well regulated militia, not on our streets.

You have no idea what you are talking about do you.......please...educate yourself about the truth....go to "Thearmedcitizen" that chronicles actual self defense with a gun, or thetruthaboutguns, or gunssavelives......they all collect real stories of normal, honest, law abiding people using guns responsibly to stop violent criminals...and it happens every day.....1.6 million times a year on average........

and there are only 8-9,000 gun murders a year, mostly by gangs in inner cities...1.6 million vs. 8-9,000 can you tell which number is bigger.....?

 

[Nosmo King]

If Ford or GM or Hasbro made a product that is responsible for thousands of deaths each year by simoply using that product, there would be a national outcry for banning such products.

But guns are too cool for that.

But guns don't fit that category....since on average guns stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives 1.6 million times a year.....over the gun murder rate of 8-9,000 a year and over the accidental gun death rate of 6-700 a year......

You can do math...right?

collateral damage is acceptable so long as we have guns on the streets and on the persons lacking training and forethought? That's simply not acceptable. Guns are designed to kill. What other products with poor safety records are still on the shelves? Certainly none of those defective products were exclusively designed to kill.

 

[2aguy]

If Ford or GM or Hasbro made a product that is responsible for thousands of deaths each year by simoply using that product, there would be a national outcry for banning such products.

But guns are too cool for that.

But guns don't fit that category....since on average guns stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives 1.6 million times a year.....over the gun murder rate of 8-9,000 a year and over the accidental gun death rate of 6-700 a year......

You can do math...right?

collateral damage is acceptable so long as we have guns on the streets and on the persons lacking training and forethought? That's simply not acceptable. Guns are designed to kill. What other products with poor safety records are still on the shelves? Certainly none of those defective products were exclusively designed to kill.

What collateral damage...you have been given the numbers.....more people are carrying guns, over 11.1 million and the gun murder rate is going down and the gun accident rate is going down, not up...you are wrong...and talking out of your ass......and you aren't even as good as Jim Carrey when you do it....

 

[Wry Catcher]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

And just how many people with CCW's, outta 10 to 15 million CCW's in the USA, do the outrageous shit that you spew above?

How many really needed the gun, and more importantly, how many put themselves in predicaments they might not if they had not been armed?

Swallowing your pride and walking away doesn't seem to be much of an option when you are carrying a gun

The reason they buy guns and want so desperately to use them is because they have bought into the culture of fear the gun lobby and culture has so carefully crafted. Everyone wants to be a hero. Dirty Harry coolly taking aim at a 'bad guy'. Rambo coming into a situation guns a'blazin'. And they all think that they live on the set of Escape from New York. Criminals are an everyday occurrence according to these gun nuts.

Now, when was the last time anyone actually faced a life or death situation on the streets of America? It happens all the time, in the movies. But when has anyone actually NEEDED a gun for defense?

Wanna be a cowboy? Wanna be an action movies star? Wanna compensate for some other shortcoming? Buy a gun and carry it openly. Above and beyond the hero status you might think, you are showing the world that, in your judgment, you can handle a crisis situation with the cool and aplomb of anything you can imagine.

March 31, 1981. Four men are grievously wounded by gun fire on the streets of Washington, D.C. Two of these wounded were carrying guns themselves. Another was wounded in the head rendering him paralyzed. The fourth was the President of the United States. He was surrounded by the best armed, best trained cadre of security personnel in history.

Now, Mom goes to the grocer with a side arm strapped to her waist. Does she have the same level of expertise the Secret Service has? Could she be responsible enough that her gun fire does not wound or kill innocent bystanders? Can a third grade teacher keep her cool with twenty or more screaming, panicking children in her charge?

The level of thought involved in these gun laws begins and ends with a misinterpretation of the Second Amendment. There are weapons that belong in the hands of a well regulated militia, not on our streets.

Well stated, thank you.

 

[2aguy]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

And just how many people with CCW's, outta 10 to 15 million CCW's in the USA, do the outrageous shit that you spew above?

How many really needed the gun, and more importantly, how many put themselves in predicaments they might not if they had not been armed?

Swallowing your pride and walking away doesn't seem to be much of an option when you are carrying a gun

The reason they buy guns and want so desperately to use them is because they have bought into the culture of fear the gun lobby and culture has so carefully crafted. Everyone wants to be a hero. Dirty Harry coolly taking aim at a 'bad guy'. Rambo coming into a situation guns a'blazin'. And they all think that they live on the set of Escape from New York. Criminals are an everyday occurrence according to these gun nuts.

Now, when was the last time anyone actually faced a life or death situation on the streets of America? It happens all the time, in the movies. But when has anyone actually NEEDED a gun for defense?

Wanna be a cowboy? Wanna be an action movies star? Wanna compensate for some other shortcoming? Buy a gun and carry it openly. Above and beyond the hero status you might think, you are showing the world that, in your judgment, you can handle a crisis situation with the cool and aplomb of anything you can imagine.

March 31, 1981. Four men are grievously wounded by gun fire on the streets of Washington, D.C. Two of these wounded were carrying guns themselves. Another was wounded in the head rendering him paralyzed. The fourth was the President of the United States. He was surrounded by the best armed, best trained cadre of security personnel in history.

Now, Mom goes to the grocer with a side arm strapped to her waist. Does she have the same level of expertise the Secret Service has? Could she be responsible enough that her gun fire does not wound or kill innocent bystanders? Can a third grade teacher keep her cool with twenty or more screaming, panicking children in her charge?

The level of thought involved in these gun laws begins and ends with a misinterpretation of the Second Amendment. There are weapons that belong in the hands of a well regulated militia, not on our streets.

Well stated, thank you.

You think talking out of his ass about a topic he obviously knows nothing about is "well stated" .......well you are a lefty.......

 

[Nosmo King]

If Ford or GM or Hasbro made a product that is responsible for thousands of deaths each year by simoply using that product, there would be a national outcry for banning such products.

But guns are too cool for that.

But guns don't fit that category....since on average guns stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives 1.6 million times a year.....over the gun murder rate of 8-9,000 a year and over the accidental gun death rate of 6-700 a year......

You can do math...right?

collateral damage is acceptable so long as we have guns on the streets and on the persons lacking training and forethought? That's simply not acceptable. Guns are designed to kill. What other products with poor safety records are still on the shelves? Certainly none of those defective products were exclusively designed to kill.

What collateral damage...you have been given the numbers.....more people are carrying guns, over 11.1 million and the gun murder rate is going down and the gun accident rate is going down, not up...you are wrong...and talking out of your ass......and you aren't even as good as Jim Carrey when you do it....

What collateral damage? How many kids are killed by errant guns that someone without enough responsibility to own a cat left in their reach? How many accidental shootings could have been prevented had the wounded not been around a gun at the time?

You cite that fantastic number 1.6 million times a year. But I'm skeptical. Gun lobbies have carefully crafted A message of fear and suspicion into their 'buy a gun today' meme. 1.6 million times a year could account for all the crimes committed, even the crime of irresponsible gun owners wishing their darkest fantasy would come true and a 'bad guy' appears in their homes, just like the movies.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Ah! Handguns! Is there no problem they cannot solve? Wait til road rage, drunken hillbillies, incompetent marksmen, stooges who leave their penises, er ah handguns in the reach of their children, domestic disputes, bar fights and minor disagreements that flare out of control because someone has a gun and that makes him feel like Dirty Harry! At least there will be a self appointed vigilante with a gun strapped to his waist on hand to show the world what consequences his lack of judgment may wrought.

If you actually paid attention you would know that more Americans than ever own and carry guns for protection...right now....and the gun murder rate is going down, not up...and the gun accident rate is going down, not up.....so your post is simple ignorance and a lack of knowledge of the subject......

On the contrary, I believe as hate and fear has risen, so have the sale of guns. But suggesting the correlation between gun murders going down and the sale of guns going up is no where near a positive 1; you have no evidence offered to prove that it is and any source you offer will be suspect. Of course I have no evidence to support my opinion either, but I bet mine opinion has a stronger correlation than yours.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Guns are fine, it's the people that that have guns that need to be controlled. How do we control people? Well drivers must be licensed, as do doctors and lawyers and teachers and pilots and tour guides and insurance sales persons, and all of these people have some training and have demonstrated some competence and abilities to handle the responsibility assoicated with their vocation or avocation.

None of these are rights, and so none of these examples support your argument.

Why do we not require the same from those who want to own, possess or want to have in their custody and control a gun?

Owning and using a gun us a right protected from infringement by the Constitution.
Aside from that.... under the Constitution, the government cannot require you to ask it permission or meet some arbitrary of competence before you can exercise ANY right.

If the answer is the Second Amendment, maybe its time - 2 + centuries after it was signed into the law - to modify this law in a minor manner?

See: US Constitution, article V.
Good luck.
Until you change it, you don't get to pretend its not there.

Let's allow the individual states the authority to require a license of anyone who wants to own, etc. a firearm.

You;d have to change the 14th amendment then, as the rights, privileges and immunities of US citizens are protected from actions by the states.