Thank you for the 47 percent increase in my health care rate

[Greenbeard]

Twenty one tax increases. We are once again screwed by the Democratic Party of America. Assholes one and all.

In fairness, if folks had known in 2009 that those taxes weren't actually necessary to pay for the law, most of the revenue raisers probably wouldn't be there (though one hopes the ones with a very strong policy case behind them would've remained).

I don't think anybody foresaw slowing health cost growth lopping hundreds of billions off the cost of Medicare (above anything the ACA directly does) over this period. That's been a pleasant surprise. Certainly CBO never would've scored those savings back then, as even now they have to keep revising their projections for Medicare spending downward every single time they update their budget numbers.

 

[Mac1958]

.

The sloppy mess that is the ACA is the predictable result of one political party writing a law of this magnitude.

.

 

[Trajan]

Cheaper in Canada
Cheaper in the UK

They can do it and we can't?

oh yea, its "cheaper" in the UK

I am sure that is a comfort to those poor bastards that have to drink water from a flower vase becasue theres no nurse to bring them any....

Drink water from a flower vase?

And yet the spend less of their GDP on healthcare and receive better coverage

How many people in the UK go bankrupt because they got sick?

I don't know, you using the cooked numbers form Elizabeth Warrens study


and yes , oh you have not heard the flower vase story?


better coverage? really? Oh yeah right the other mis-characterized, misreported, poorly conducted and cooked numbers from WHO? Oh and right the long term cancer survival treatment rate here is better too but hey, whats that

 

[Polk]

Twenty one tax increases. We are once again screwed by the Democratic Party of America. Assholes one and all.

In fairness, if folks had known in 2009 that those taxes weren't actually necessary to pay for the law, most of the revenue raisers probably wouldn't be there (though one hopes the ones with a very strong policy case behind them would've remained).

I don't think anybody foresaw slowing health cost growth lopping hundreds of billions off the cost of Medicare (above anything the ACA directly does) over this period. That's been a pleasant surprise. Certainly CBO never would've scored those savings back then, as even now they have to keep revising their projections for Medicare spending downward every single time they update their budget numbers.

Nothing breeds anger like success.

 

[rdean]

My most recent monthly health insurance bill went up 47 percent. Thanks again, Obama and all you liberal a-holes who support the madness.

Kaiser Family Foundation found that family health care costs increased by 78 percent between 2001 and 2008.

FACT CHECK NO.1: Health Care Costs Versus Wages - ABC News

35 seconds of research.

 

[Obamanation]

That's great. What about the people who need medical attention for their cancer, accident, major illness, accident, etc...that can't be treated at an Urgent Care facility?

or an emergency room...

thats handled through your oncologist.

And if they can't afford it? Tough luck?

Please, I have worked with oncologists. My Father died of cancer not 6 years ago. He was uninsured and 64 when his treatments began, and the oncologist wrote off 70% of his charges taking only what medicare payed once medicare finally kicked in. Nobody EVER said, "You don't have coverage? Screw you! Just die!!" --- they wrote off 70% and he never paid a dime from his fixed income/savings...

 

[Trajan]

Twenty one tax increases. We are once again screwed by the Democratic Party of America. Assholes one and all.

In fairness, if folks had known in 2009 that those taxes weren't actually necessary to pay for the law, most of the revenue raisers probably wouldn't be there (though one hopes the ones with a very strong policy case behind them would've remained).

I don't think anybody foresaw slowing health cost growth lopping hundreds of billions off the cost of Medicare (above anything the ACA directly does) over this period. That's been a pleasant surprise. Certainly CBO never would've scored those savings back then, as even now they have to keep revising their projections for Medicare spending downward every single time they update their budget numbers.

uh huh, so that glut of CLASS act cash they were counting will be made up ......how?

it now looks like Rands vclaim that the electronic records gig is,.well not going very well and their estimate which of course was embraced by obama et al, of $81 Bn in savings was " overstated ", which means of course since Obamacare will never ever take a step back not voluntarily that is) , they'll use the usual government answer= throw more money at it. Money that was not budgeted.....so those 'savings' will be made up....how?



here, watch this-


so greenbeard, is obamacare still- 'budget neutral'?

 

[Obamanation]

Everything in the above statement is false. Be proud of yourself.

The hell it is...

I have to drive to work at the hospital now. 2.5 hours from my home as there are fewer medical imaging jobs now than EVER before. I'll be there for 3 days - and I'll have time to discuss this in depth with you. Go ahead and tell me where my statements are "false". LMAO!!

I can't wait to get to a point I can respond to you!! Looking forward to it!!

Oh goodie. Let's start with your first incorrect statement that "conservatives weren't invited to the healthcare discussion meetings".

They were in fact, they even broadcast the discussions on TV. Bipartisan meetings.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTd6v3VQf5s"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTd6v3VQf5s[/ame]

Let me know when you're done with that and I'll address your next incorrect statement. I can do this all day long

You can't do chit all day long. I watched the healht care summit and the GOP was shut down at every turn. Anyone who wasn't for preemptive gov't takeover of healthcare was shut down and ignored. You say my statements are false and then use bogus statements and a video that proves my point!

You can't disprove ANY of my claims because they are all TRUE!

 

[Obamanation]

They administer chemo at urgent care centers?
They do surgery at urgent care centers?

What happens to those people who were denied/can't afford insurance and need something that an Urgent care center can't handle (which is a lot).

What has always amused me about this debate is the fact that those who are whining the most about "paying for others" are already doing so through their own plan. Not only are they (and their insurance companies) paying for those w/o insurance who use the ER as their only health care resource, but they're also paying for those in the plan who actually use their insurance for health care. That's why we have insurance, so we won't have to pick up the entire bloated tab.

I can't even begin to count the number of times I've attempted to explain this to people on this site. They don't get it, nor do they want to get it. They just want to live in their bubble and blame Obama and "all those moochers".

What you are missing is the lack of personal responsibility. Obamacare doesn't address it either, and between the fear of law suit and lack of personal responsibility, we have the two biggest problems with healthcare costs....

Obama shoved a NON-solution to the big problems down our throat in a attempt to get the gov'ts foot in the door for an entire gov't takeover of healthcare.

It was dishonest at best!

 

[Obamanation]

My premium increases began under Bush. My company bounced around HMOs too. We went from Oxford to United Health to Blue Shield...then I got the boot.

The company I work for now has Aetna.

Part of the reason that Conservative plan for the Health Care was used INSTEAD of socializing medicine was BECAUSE of Conservative opposition to single payer.

It's like you guys have really short memories.

There is no CONSERVATIVE plan. We weren't invited to the meetings. We have "the way things were" and Obama's plan to do a "government take over of healthcare". The GOP was never allowed to provide an alternative. We want honest open discussions to come up with a solution to the bad(the way things were) and the horrible (obamacare).

Sure there is. It's called, Romneycare. Obamacare was based on it. They are pretty much the same law. And the main component of the law -- the individual mandate -- was a conservative idea.

Besides all of that; if Republicans wanted more input into the law, then they should have done more than offer a "free market" solution. They were happy with the status quo. But the status quo was not working. So, something else had to be done. They didn't want to play. Oh well. Nothing new. They're always on the wrong side of history.

That wasn't a plan put forward by conservatives as a solution to the Nations healthcare cost problem, and to pretend that it is isn't being honest in the least bit.

No conservatives ideas were EVER considered by the obama admin when developing the ACA. It was built behind closed doors a mere 3 months after Obama stood in front of America and said he would be the most transparent admin. ever! Once completed, Pelosi has the nerve to stand in front of America and tell us that we would like it once we got the chance to read it (but only after it passed!!!!).

Had W done this to America, you guys would be so up in arms over it, we would never hear the end of it --- and you guys don't even have the honesty to admit that.

It's pathetic! ...and the biggest industry in America, healthcare, has been fed a disease that the only cure will be total gov't control --- and with it, it marks the grand entrance of socialism to which a return to FREEDOM will be a very difficult journey!

 

[Obamanation]

Nobody suggested that at all. It is obvious that we are seeing a response to the ACA. As soon at the POS bill was forced on Americans - a lot of things started happening. Doctors began retiring, students picked alternative careers to medicine, insurances started gutting plans and raising prices on premium healthcare. Hospitals started eliminating non-essential positions, now are redefining essential positions to make more cuts.

What's actually happened? 2012 just saw record medical school applications, the lowest health care price inflation since 1998, the smallest increases for group health insurance premiums in 15 years, unprecedented slowing of Medicare's per capita cost growth, and the smallest increase in total national health spending ever seen in the 52 years those numbers have been tracked.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=6&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=fewer%20stu&tok=zhPF_pTagwqXFtwCVxf4oA&cp=22&gs_id=3t&xhr=t&q=fewer+students+doctors&es_nrs=true&pf=p&biw=1254&bih=577&sclient=psy-ab&oq=fewer+students+doctors&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43429836,bs.1,d.eWU&fp=7ed15a824f860d64

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=6&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=decrease%20in%20insurcoverage%20&tok=zhPF_pTagwqXFtwCVxf4oA&cp=22&gs_id=9u&xhr=t&q=decrease+in+insurance+coverage&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=decrease+in+insurance+coverage+&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43429836,bs.1,d.eWU&fp=7ed15a824f860d64&biw=1254&bih=577

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=6&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=federgovernment%20cutting%20reimbursement%20&tok=zhPF_pTagwqXFtwCVxf4oA&cp=8&gs_id=df&xhr=t&q=federal+government+cutting+reimbursement&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=federal+government+cutting+reimbursement+&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43429836,bs.1,d.eWU&fp=7ed15a824f860d64&biw=1254&bih=577

I just love watching lefties twist the truth to try to fit their talking points....

 

[rdean]

What has always amused me about this debate is the fact that those who are whining the most about "paying for others" are already doing so through their own plan. Not only are they (and their insurance companies) paying for those w/o insurance who use the ER as their only health care resource, but they're also paying for those in the plan who actually use their insurance for health care. That's why we have insurance, so we won't have to pick up the entire bloated tab.

I can't even begin to count the number of times I've attempted to explain this to people on this site. They don't get it, nor do they want to get it. They just want to live in their bubble and blame Obama and "all those moochers".

What you are missing is the lack of personal responsibility. Obamacare doesn't address it either, and between the fear of law suit and lack of personal responsibility, we have the two biggest problems with healthcare costs....

Obama shoved a NON-solution to the big problems down our throat in a attempt to get the gov'ts foot in the door for an entire gov't takeover of healthcare.

It was dishonest at best!

Did you know that medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy for Americans who are "personally responsible"?

 

[boedicca]

I can't even begin to count the number of times I've attempted to explain this to people on this site. They don't get it, nor do they want to get it. They just want to live in their bubble and blame Obama and "all those moochers".

What you are missing is the lack of personal responsibility. Obamacare doesn't address it either, and between the fear of law suit and lack of personal responsibility, we have the two biggest problems with healthcare costs....

Obama shoved a NON-solution to the big problems down our throat in a attempt to get the gov'ts foot in the door for an entire gov't takeover of healthcare.

It was dishonest at best!

Did you know that medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy for Americans who are "personally responsible"?

I call shenanigans.

That myth has been debunked. When people declare bankruptcy, they have to provide a list of liabilities, which often includes some minor amount of unpaid medical bills (but those bills are not the main cause). The #1 cause is Over Consumption.

http://faculty.gsm.ucdavis.edu/~nzhu/papers/personal_bank.pdf

 

[Obamanation]

I can't even begin to count the number of times I've attempted to explain this to people on this site. They don't get it, nor do they want to get it. They just want to live in their bubble and blame Obama and "all those moochers".

What you are missing is the lack of personal responsibility. Obamacare doesn't address it either, and between the fear of law suit and lack of personal responsibility, we have the two biggest problems with healthcare costs....

Obama shoved a NON-solution to the big problems down our throat in a attempt to get the gov'ts foot in the door for an entire gov't takeover of healthcare.

It was dishonest at best!

Did you know that medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy for Americans who are "personally responsible"?

...and will continue to be even after Obamacare takes full effect. The levels of coverage will NEVER again meet all persons healthcare needs for the middle class. Those of us who are deemed financially capable of paying for our own healthcare will find ourselves existing on the ledge of what we can afford and it's lack of coverage!! All the ACA will do is raise the bar of poverty to include more of the middle class!!!

It is by design and ensures an increase of gov't control over more Americans....

 

[Greenbeard]

so greenbeard, is obamacare still- 'budget neutral'?

Significantly more than expected with the unexpected slowdown in health cost growth.

No conservatives ideas were EVER considered by the obama admin when developing the ACA.

Such as?

Nobody suggested that at all. It is obvious that we are seeing a response to the ACA. As soon at the POS bill was forced on Americans - a lot of things started happening. Doctors began retiring, students picked alternative careers to medicine, insurances started gutting plans and raising prices on premium healthcare. Hospitals started eliminating non-essential positions, now are redefining essential positions to make more cuts.

What's actually happened? 2012 just saw record medical school applications, the lowest health care price inflation since 1998, the smallest increases for group health insurance premiums in 15 years, unprecedented slowing of Medicare's per capita cost growth, and the smallest increase in total national health spending ever seen in the 52 years those numbers have been tracked.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=6&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=fewer%20stu&tok=zhPF_pTagwqXFtwCVxf4oA&cp=22&gs_id=3t&xhr=t&q=fewer+students+doctors&es_nrs=true&pf=p&biw=1254&bih=577&sclient=psy-ab&oq=fewer+students+doctors&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43429836,bs.1,d.eWU&fp=7ed15a824f860d64

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=6&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=decrease%20in%20insurcoverage%20&tok=zhPF_pTagwqXFtwCVxf4oA&cp=22&gs_id=9u&xhr=t&q=decrease+in+insurance+coverage&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=decrease+in+insurance+coverage+&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43429836,bs.1,d.eWU&fp=7ed15a824f860d64&biw=1254&bih=577

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=6&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=federgovernment%20cutting%20reimbursement%20&tok=zhPF_pTagwqXFtwCVxf4oA&cp=8&gs_id=df&xhr=t&q=federal+government+cutting+reimbursement&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=federal+government+cutting+reimbursement+&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43429836,bs.1,d.eWU&fp=7ed15a824f860d64&biw=1254&bih=577

I just love watching lefties twist the truth to try to fit their talking points....

Good point, I forgot that 2012 was also "the first time in the last 10 years that the rate of private health insurance coverage has not decreased," as your links note.

So cost and price growth has plummeted, med school applications are up, and private coverage decline has actually reversed for the first time in a decade. Good save.

 

[Obamanation]

What you are missing is the lack of personal responsibility. Obamacare doesn't address it either, and between the fear of law suit and lack of personal responsibility, we have the two biggest problems with healthcare costs....

Obama shoved a NON-solution to the big problems down our throat in a attempt to get the gov'ts foot in the door for an entire gov't takeover of healthcare.

It was dishonest at best!

Did you know that medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy for Americans who are "personally responsible"?

I call shenanigans.

That myth has been debunked. When people declare bankruptcy, they have to provide a list of liabilities, which often includes some minor amount of unpaid medical bills (but those bills are not the main cause). The #1 cause is Over Consumption.

http://faculty.gsm.ucdavis.edu/~nzhu/papers/personal_bank.pdf

This I did not know, but is certainly going in my arsenal!

Nothing better than a conservative American with a big arsenal!

 

[boedicca]

Very happy to oblige.

 

[Obamanation]

so greenbeard, is obamacare still- 'budget neutral'?

Significantly more than expected with the unexpected slowdown in health cost growth.

No conservatives ideas were EVER considered by the obama admin when developing the ACA.

Such as?

What's actually happened? 2012 just saw record medical school applications, the lowest health care price inflation since 1998, the smallest increases for group health insurance premiums in 15 years, unprecedented slowing of Medicare's per capita cost growth, and the smallest increase in total national health spending ever seen in the 52 years those numbers have been tracked.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=6&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=fewer%20stu&tok=zhPF_pTagwqXFtwCVxf4oA&cp=22&gs_id=3t&xhr=t&q=fewer+students+doctors&es_nrs=true&pf=p&biw=1254&bih=577&sclient=psy-ab&oq=fewer+students+doctors&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43429836,bs.1,d.eWU&fp=7ed15a824f860d64

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=6&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=decrease%20in%20insurcoverage%20&tok=zhPF_pTagwqXFtwCVxf4oA&cp=22&gs_id=9u&xhr=t&q=decrease+in+insurance+coverage&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=decrease+in+insurance+coverage+&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43429836,bs.1,d.eWU&fp=7ed15a824f860d64&biw=1254&bih=577

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=6&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=federgovernment%20cutting%20reimbursement%20&tok=zhPF_pTagwqXFtwCVxf4oA&cp=8&gs_id=df&xhr=t&q=federal+government+cutting+reimbursement&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=federal+government+cutting+reimbursement+&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43429836,bs.1,d.eWU&fp=7ed15a824f860d64&biw=1254&bih=577

I just love watching lefties twist the truth to try to fit their talking points....

Good point, I forgot that 2012 was also "the first time in the last 10 years that the rate of private health insurance coverage has not decreased," as your links note.

So cost and price growth has plummeted, med school applications are up, and private coverage decline has actually reversed for the first time in a decade. Good save.

You wish....

Your President forces a non-solution on you and you defend him. If it had been Bush you would be screaming bloody murder!

You are dishonest and a hypocrite - at least regarding this topic!

 

[Greenbeard]

You wish....

I wish what? These are pretty easily verifiable facts. The wingnut blogs have led you astray.

 

[Obamanation]

You wish....

I wish what? These are pretty easily verifiable facts. The wingnut blogs have led you astray.

They aren't verifiable at all. They are data manipulation. For example, if you find colleges with more students applying for med school it is only because standards have been lowered in an attempt to increase applicants due to the loss of previously qualified candidates.

Try as you might --- the only arguments for the ACA, as it currently stands, are DISHONEST!