The 2nd Civil War

[Drake_Roberts]

Yes. Probably 110% since inevitably border skirmishes affect people on the other side of the border and in our interconnected world, what happens in Wisconsin is transmitted immediately to other parts of the nation. You won't be safe anywhere.

Yes. Soldiers (for one) are from all over the nation. Fort Hood isn't going to open it's gates and welcome you...they will just open fire and in 5 minutes...they will go back to their day...that's how long you'll last.

This is why the debate you challenged me to never got off the ground. You have no basis in reality. Seriously, you have zero idea of what you're talking about. None whatsoever.

You are what, 20? Ever bought anything online? There is often taxes involved. People are still going to pay those taxes...ON TOP OF whatever taxes you'll charge. What you're doing is imposing new taxes you ignorant sack of shit...not reducing taxes. For fuck's sake dick breath...grow a pair.

As for restoring rights..what rights are you going to restore. Name 10 specific rights you'll restore. I'd be surprised if you can name 5.

Finally the "corrupt government" actually employs about 10% of the nation (about 8 percent actually). Not counting the local, county and state governments. What you're actually doing is going to be plunging any economy you touch into total bedlam because a lot of people will be out of work. Are you going to have a DMV...a postal service...air traffic controllers...IRS auditors? These people have jobs--good jobs--that help fund the local economy. How you going to replace them?

And why we are on the subject of money..what are you going to use for money shitbrains? Greenbacks? Think there is going to be an influx of them coming in? Or will you use bitcoin? Your currency will be worthless--which will be appropriate since you're there already--but nobody will want whatever it is you're handing out. Think Amazon.com will take your kangaroo currency shit-stain? Do you think someone spending dollars to produce X, Y, or Z will be happy taking your Monopoly money as payment?

There is this thing called economics. What your currency is worth is largely tied to how much value people place on it. And, oh yeah, the South is one of the largest consumers of the North's dollars....when the spigot gets turned off and people are starving in the streets--because of you and the other 2 people using your screen name (kids--gotta love them)--what are you going to feed them with?

Scarcity and warfare go hand in hand. You're sitting here talking about elections....wake the fuck up junior. Martial law will be the only option for any occupying force as it has been for likely centuries.



You're a fucking idiot. In the same way you have to smell rotten milk before you toss it out...I hope to hell you try something. It will be a perverse pleasure watching you fail.

I was not talking about online taxes, rather taxes paid to the state or fed. Maybe not state once most of a state is controlled, though. And yes, I will still use greenbacks. And guess what? Your stupidity goes in hand in hand with scarcity just as much as war. And of course there will still be federal jobs. Do you think I would outlaw a central government?

See shit brains...you can't name the rights you're going to restore...

Online taxes are real money shit brains....and your hostages will still be paying them.

Still going to use Federal Reserve Notes? Really? And the Federal Reserve Bank is going to send you money? Are you that fucking insane? Money will be leaving your country and nothing will be coming in. You will be surrounded you ignorant piece of shit!!!

So there will still be tax collectors collecting taxes for the Washington government? Wow... and the people will pay that in addition to your taxes? Obviously that won't fly.

Don't worry about addressing these obvious shortcomings...you haven't thought about what it takes to be a man much less how to be a man...you have no answers and you have nothing.

Rights:
Right to bear arms and shall never be infringed.
Right to non-socialist healthcare.
Right to freedom to say what you please.
Right to live in a country not owned by the Chinese.
Right to live in a society ruled by those who oppose bigotry and corruption.
Right to your privacy.
Right to live in peace, without people threatening subpoenas on you. (Sorry, had to do a joke answer)
Right to happiness.
Right to know the truth.
Right to a more perfect union.
Give me some time and I'll come up with some others.
Why would I allow Washington tax collectors to collect in my territory? The people are citizens of my new country, and thus are outside the jurisdiction of Washington.

 

[WinterBorn]

Uh, Winter, the coin flips both ways. Do you believe those who lost family in service of the rebellion will be happy with the US? And notice I said that they could still hold office unless deemed necessary they were not fit to do it. The people with experience deemed to be friends of our rights and the rebellion would of course still be able to hold office, and teach a new generation about national economics and things like that.

No it does not flip both ways.

If my sons die attacking the US, I will mourn their loss and grieve. But if my sons dies defending their home land and country, I will avenge them.

Plus, the people you want to run those cities you conquered will not have been part of the invading force. They will have been defending it.

That you think people will switch loyalties so quickly is naïve.

At first I will use people who are loyal to the cause. After the war is over or it is clear we are winning, I will start to use people who have come to their senses.

No, you will HAVE to use people who switched sides under duress. Otherwise you will be shedding leadership behind you to run the conquered towns & cities.

The numbers of people "loyal to the cause" will be far to low to mount an effective war machine.

And in addition to those who are "loyal to the cause" you will have far more who want to kill, loot & pillage. You offer them a chance and they will be barbaric marauders. And for each time one of your men rapes, steals, loots, or commits an atrocity against the conquered population, the word will spread and more hatred will be heaped on you.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

I was not talking about online taxes, rather taxes paid to the state or fed. Maybe not state once most of a state is controlled, though. And yes, I will still use greenbacks. And guess what? Your stupidity goes in hand in hand with scarcity just as much as war. And of course there will still be federal jobs. Do you think I would outlaw a central government?

I have a simple question for you, Drake Roberts. What is the largest number of people you have ever been in charge of or led? Obviously not into battle. But how many people have you supervised at something or been in a position of leadership over?

Clearly, Drake is the next Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Muhammad, or Hannibal. His military genius is without equal, even by these great minds. They had years of experience before displaying their tactics, Drake doesn't need experience.

Thanks for the sarcastic vote of confidence!

 

[007]

So you're going to take cities but fight in the woods. Are there a lot of towns with forests in the middle of the city?

Not a single shot will be required to "take a city." City slickers will kill each other over food and starve to death when it runs out, which will be real damn quick when the trucks stop hauling it in. The only place anyone will be able to survive nation wide anarchy, is in the country, where there's food and water. Problem with that is what few city slickers are left that are lucky enough to survive long enough to flee the city, when they venture out into the country thinking they're going to find food won't find anything more than a hail of bullets from country people protecting what they have.

Are there lots of farms growing food and wild game running lose in the city? No.

Simple fact of the matter is, you live in the city, you gonna die.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

I have a simple question for you, Drake Roberts. What is the largest number of people you have ever been in charge of or led? Obviously not into battle. But how many people have you supervised at something or been in a position of leadership over?

60ish.

Given your age, the leadership was fairly short-lived. And you think that somehow provides you with the skills to lead thousands? And to do so in unfamiliar territory and against the combined might of the US Gov't?

Yes, I think you are either delusional or a child.

Winter, if more people were like you, I don't think the world would have invented usable electricity, the wheel... just about anything. And the obvious intent of this is to not fight the combined US gov't, rather a splintered and chaotic one.

 

[HenryBHough]

The group best equipped to launch civil war?

Truck drivers.

All they have to do is park the rigs for about 10-days. Then the grocery shelves will be bare, having been looted when about 1/2 empty. There'll be no drinkable water because there will be no chlorine deliveries to the treatment plants. Disease will kill thousands because there'll be no medicines delivered.

Of course getting 100% driver participation would be impossible as some would try to profit from scarcity by jacking up rates but an army equipped with nothing much more than ice picks could improve the stats.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

No it does not flip both ways.

If my sons die attacking the US, I will mourn their loss and grieve. But if my sons dies defending their home land and country, I will avenge them.

Plus, the people you want to run those cities you conquered will not have been part of the invading force. They will have been defending it.

That you think people will switch loyalties so quickly is naïve.

At first I will use people who are loyal to the cause. After the war is over or it is clear we are winning, I will start to use people who have come to their senses.

No, you will HAVE to use people who switched sides under duress. Otherwise you will be shedding leadership behind you to run the conquered towns & cities.

The numbers of people "loyal to the cause" will be far to low to mount an effective war machine.

And in addition to those who are "loyal to the cause" you will have far more who want to kill, loot & pillage. You offer them a chance and they will be barbaric marauders. And for each time one of your men rapes, steals, loots, or commits an atrocity against the conquered population, the word will spread and more hatred will be heaped on you.

And the US is never going to loot or pillage. But my men, my Americans, are brutal savages. You should defend the US more and on an open stage for millions to see, Winter. I'd have a revolt in no time.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

So you're going to take cities but fight in the woods. Are there a lot of towns with forests in the middle of the city?

Not a single shot will be required to "take a city." City slickers will kill each other over food and starve to death when it runs out, which will be real damn quick when the trucks stop hauling it in. The only place anyone will be able to survive nation wide anarchy, is in the country, where there's food and water. Problem with that is what few city slickers are left that are lucky enough to survive long enough to flee the city, when they venture out into the country thinking they're going to find food won't find anything more than a hail of bullets from country people protecting what they have.

Are there lots of farms growing food and wild game running lose in the city? No.

Simple fact of the matter is, you live in the city, you gonna die.

Problem is, I don't want the cities to be wiped out. I need people to tax to fund my army. And to produce more products. And to prevent national anarchy. I don't want for cities to be wiped out, causing more hatred towards my forces.

 

[007]

The group best equipped to launch civil war?

Truck drivers.

All they have to do is park the rigs for about 10-days. Then the grocery shelves will be bare, having been looted when about 1/2 empty. There'll be no drinkable water because there will be no chlorine deliveries to the treatment plants. Disease will kill thousands because there'll be no medicines delivered.

Of course getting 100% driver participation would be impossible as some would try to profit from scarcity by jacking up rates but an army equipped with nothing much more than ice picks could improve the stats.

It won't take 100% participation either. All it will take is enough truckers to not go into cities for it get dangerous for the rest still driving to enter a city and there ya go. No truckers will enter cities for fear of their lives, then city slickers start dying, from starvation, killing each other, and sickness and disease.

It's just a simple fact, if there's ever any anarchy in America, living in a city is going to be a death sentence.

 

[WinterBorn]

I was not talking about online taxes, rather taxes paid to the state or fed. Maybe not state once most of a state is controlled, though. And yes, I will still use greenbacks. And guess what? Your stupidity goes in hand in hand with scarcity just as much as war. And of course there will still be federal jobs. Do you think I would outlaw a central government?

See shit brains...you can't name the rights you're going to restore...

Online taxes are real money shit brains....and your hostages will still be paying them.

Still going to use Federal Reserve Notes? Really? And the Federal Reserve Bank is going to send you money? Are you that fucking insane? Money will be leaving your country and nothing will be coming in. You will be surrounded you ignorant piece of shit!!!

So there will still be tax collectors collecting taxes for the Washington government? Wow... and the people will pay that in addition to your taxes? Obviously that won't fly.

Don't worry about addressing these obvious shortcomings...you haven't thought about what it takes to be a man much less how to be a man...you have no answers and you have nothing.

Rights:
Right to bear arms and shall never be infringed.
Right to non-socialist healthcare.
Right to freedom to say what you please.
Right to live in a country not owned by the Chinese.
Right to live in a society ruled by those who oppose bigotry and corruption.
Right to your privacy.
Right to live in peace, without people threatening subpoenas on you. (Sorry, had to do a joke answer)
Right to happiness.
Right to know the truth.
Right to a more perfect union.
Give me some time and I'll come up with some others.
Why would I allow Washington tax collectors to collect in my territory? The people are citizens of my new country, and thus are outside the jurisdiction of Washington.

That sounds very noble.

But let's look at your list, shall we?

Rights:
1)Right to bear arms and shall never be infringed.
already exists

2)Right to non-socialist healthcare.
Who will pay these doctors, nurses and for the medicines? And those who have no money, will they have medical care? If so, it will be socialistic.

3)Right to freedom to say what you please.
Already exists

4)Right to live in a country not owned by the Chinese.
We owe the Chinese a lot of money. Destroying infrastructure will not change that But the Chinese do not own this country.

5)Right to live in a society ruled by those who oppose bigotry and corruption.
So who decides who rules? You have said you will step down. Now you are guaranteeing that those who follow you will never be bigoted or corrupt?

6)Right to your privacy.
You have already invaded, killed, and demanded taxes be paid. I would call those invasions of privacy.

7)Right to live in peace, without people threatening subpoenas on you. (Sorry, had to do a joke answer)
Live in peace? This, coming from someone who violently removed the duly elected gov't, is laughable.

8)Right to happiness.
You are actually willing to guarantee happiness? Wow. You are seriously naïve.

9)Right to know the truth.
Sounds great but is essentially meaningless

10)Right to a more perfect union.
Not only bogus, but seriously vague


Ok, so me and my well-armed friends will pass on joining your little revolution. Good luck in the northeast, and stay out of the south.

 

[candycorn]

I was not talking about online taxes, rather taxes paid to the state or fed. Maybe not state once most of a state is controlled, though. And yes, I will still use greenbacks. And guess what? Your stupidity goes in hand in hand with scarcity just as much as war. And of course there will still be federal jobs. Do you think I would outlaw a central government?

See shit brains...you can't name the rights you're going to restore...

Online taxes are real money shit brains....and your hostages will still be paying them.

Still going to use Federal Reserve Notes? Really? And the Federal Reserve Bank is going to send you money? Are you that fucking insane? Money will be leaving your country and nothing will be coming in. You will be surrounded you ignorant piece of shit!!!

So there will still be tax collectors collecting taxes for the Washington government? Wow... and the people will pay that in addition to your taxes? Obviously that won't fly.

Don't worry about addressing these obvious shortcomings...you haven't thought about what it takes to be a man much less how to be a man...you have no answers and you have nothing.

Rights:
Right to bear arms and shall never be infringed.

We currently have that right.

Right to non-socialist healthcare.

We currently have that right too.

Right to freedom to say what you please.

We currently have that right...

Right to live in a country not owned by the Chinese.

Most of America is owned by Americans.

Right to live in a society ruled by those who oppose bigotry and corruption.

You have the right to vote out those who are in favor of bigotry and corruption...

Right to your privacy.

Good point however that wasn't in the constitution...just as our founders wanted it.

Right to live in peace, without people threatening subpoenas on you. (Sorry, had to do a joke answer)

You're joke enough...just people threatening revolutions.

Right to happiness.

I'm quite happy. You're not exercising that right if you're not happy or just a sad person.

Right to know the truth.

Oh lord. What truth do you want to know boy?

Right to a more perfect union.

This is particularly entertaining...and your remedy is to unleash warfare.

Give me some time and I'll come up with some others.

I'm sure you will come up with all sorts of imagined grievances. Since you haven't lived you have no idea what injustice is all about sonny boy.

Why would I allow Washington tax collectors to collect in my territory? The people are citizens of my new country, and thus are outside the jurisdiction of Washington.

Washington won't recognize you and those people won't recognize you. So they will be double taxed which means you won't collect anything.

Seriously, you're going to have massive unemployment and massive shortages since no imports will be coming in...much less currency...

 

[American4Americ]

I was not talking about online taxes, rather taxes paid to the state or fed. Maybe not state once most of a state is controlled, though. And yes, I will still use greenbacks. And guess what? Your stupidity goes in hand in hand with scarcity just as much as war. And of course there will still be federal jobs. Do you think I would outlaw a central government?

See shit brains...you can't name the rights you're going to restore...

Online taxes are real money shit brains....and your hostages will still be paying them.

Still going to use Federal Reserve Notes? Really? And the Federal Reserve Bank is going to send you money? Are you that fucking insane? Money will be leaving your country and nothing will be coming in. You will be surrounded you ignorant piece of shit!!!

So there will still be tax collectors collecting taxes for the Washington government? Wow... and the people will pay that in addition to your taxes? Obviously that won't fly.

Don't worry about addressing these obvious shortcomings...you haven't thought about what it takes to be a man much less how to be a man...you have no answers and you have nothing.

Rights:
Right to bear arms and shall never be infringed.
Right to non-socialist healthcare.
Right to freedom to say what you please.
Right to live in a country not owned by the Chinese.
Right to live in a society ruled by those who oppose bigotry and corruption.
Right to your privacy.
Right to live in peace, without people threatening subpoenas on you. (Sorry, had to do a joke answer)
Right to happiness.
Right to know the truth.
Right to a more perfect union.
Give me some time and I'll come up with some others.
Why would I allow Washington tax collectors to collect in my territory? The people are citizens of my new country, and thus are outside the jurisdiction of Washington.

This list is COMICAL

Where was the revolution during the 1870s? 1890s? 1910s? 1930 through today?

Oh I'll tell you what happened - They were systematically crushed. Laughably so. Even when MILLIONS supported such a revolution during the 1890s, when America was *This* close to a worker revolution, it was easily swept aside.

Here let me give you some historical precedents.

Shay's Rebellion
Coxy's Army
The Wobblies,

Just to name a few.

Not to mention your list of "rights" is hysterical.


Right to bear arms and shall never be infringed. This has been done since the 30s.
Right to non-socialist healthcare. Wtf kind of right is this? According to Thomas Jefferson, the people have to the final say in such matters. The healthcare system is neither socialist, and Obamacare will eliminated come the 2014 elections, due to true patriots using the vote to oust the terrorist in chief.
Right to freedom to say what you please. Um - John Adams anyone? Literally the second president.

Right to live in a country not owned by the Chinese. Also not a right. In fact, assuming you want a truly free market, and not a socialist utopia, then being owned by the Chinese WOULD be a fundamental right.
Right to live in a society ruled by those who oppose bigotry and corruption. Bigotry and Corruption is evident in every single nation. This is not a right, otherwise we would not have government as there would not be anyone to elect.
Right to your privacy. That was destroyed during the civil war, and has not existed since.
Right to happiness. Actually, you have the right to PURSUE happiness, you should never be guaranteed such a thing.
Right to know the truth. The government has been lying since the days of Washington. This right is not fundamental
Right to a more perfect union. What does this even mean?

 

[007]

So you're going to take cities but fight in the woods. Are there a lot of towns with forests in the middle of the city?

Not a single shot will be required to "take a city." City slickers will kill each other over food and starve to death when it runs out, which will be real damn quick when the trucks stop hauling it in. The only place anyone will be able to survive nation wide anarchy, is in the country, where there's food and water. Problem with that is what few city slickers are left that are lucky enough to survive long enough to flee the city, when they venture out into the country thinking they're going to find food won't find anything more than a hail of bullets from country people protecting what they have.

Are there lots of farms growing food and wild game running lose in the city? No.

Simple fact of the matter is, you live in the city, you gonna die.

Problem is, I don't want the cities to be wiped out. I need people to tax to fund my army. And to produce more products. And to prevent national anarchy. I don't want for cities to be wiped out, causing more hatred towards my forces.

Cities will implode, that's just the simple fact of the matter.

The only place to survive nation wide anarchy or even unrest, is out in the country.

The "HEARTLAND."

 

[WinterBorn]

At first I will use people who are loyal to the cause. After the war is over or it is clear we are winning, I will start to use people who have come to their senses.

No, you will HAVE to use people who switched sides under duress. Otherwise you will be shedding leadership behind you to run the conquered towns & cities.

The numbers of people "loyal to the cause" will be far to low to mount an effective war machine.

And in addition to those who are "loyal to the cause" you will have far more who want to kill, loot & pillage. You offer them a chance and they will be barbaric marauders. And for each time one of your men rapes, steals, loots, or commits an atrocity against the conquered population, the word will spread and more hatred will be heaped on you.

And the US is never going to loot or pillage. But my men, my Americans, are brutal savages. You should defend the US more and on an open stage for millions to see, Winter. I'd have a revolt in no time.

I didn't say the US would never do anything wrong.

That is not the point. You are the invader. YOu have to convince the population to follow you. If you can't then your revolution will be very short-lived.

 

[007]

Maybe that's why the leftard, city slickers hate conservative country people so much. They know that if the shit ever hits the fan, those country people will survive, but they're pretty much fucked.

 

[WinterBorn]

60ish.

Given your age, the leadership was fairly short-lived. And you think that somehow provides you with the skills to lead thousands? And to do so in unfamiliar territory and against the combined might of the US Gov't?

Yes, I think you are either delusional or a child.

Winter, if more people were like you, I don't think the world would have invented usable electricity, the wheel... just about anything. And the obvious intent of this is to not fight the combined US gov't, rather a splintered and chaotic one.

On the contrary, I am a very creative sort of fellow. I am also a student of the human condition.

You are wanting to attack the US. Now whether you do that with US citizens or robots is beside the point. You will be portrayed as an invader and a terrorist.

YOu will face the combined law enforcement abilities of federal state and local agencies. That will defeat what you have to start with. The military will not be needed.

 

[American4Americ]

Also, the fact of the matter is that any nation fighting a war becomes extremely authoritarian, so Drake's alternative will be far worse.

The confederacy, is one such example.

 

[WinterBorn]

Not a single shot will be required to "take a city." City slickers will kill each other over food and starve to death when it runs out, which will be real damn quick when the trucks stop hauling it in. The only place anyone will be able to survive nation wide anarchy, is in the country, where there's food and water. Problem with that is what few city slickers are left that are lucky enough to survive long enough to flee the city, when they venture out into the country thinking they're going to find food won't find anything more than a hail of bullets from country people protecting what they have.

Are there lots of farms growing food and wild game running lose in the city? No.

Simple fact of the matter is, you live in the city, you gonna die.

Problem is, I don't want the cities to be wiped out. I need people to tax to fund my army. And to produce more products. And to prevent national anarchy. I don't want for cities to be wiped out, causing more hatred towards my forces.

Cities will implode, that's just the simple fact of the matter.

The only place to survive nation wide anarchy or even unrest, is out in the country.

The "HEARTLAND."

You are correct. Anyone remaining in the cities will be screwed.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Has the revolution started yet? It is getting kind of boreing here in my bunker.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

See shit brains...you can't name the rights you're going to restore...

Online taxes are real money shit brains....and your hostages will still be paying them.

Still going to use Federal Reserve Notes? Really? And the Federal Reserve Bank is going to send you money? Are you that fucking insane? Money will be leaving your country and nothing will be coming in. You will be surrounded you ignorant piece of shit!!!

So there will still be tax collectors collecting taxes for the Washington government? Wow... and the people will pay that in addition to your taxes? Obviously that won't fly.

Don't worry about addressing these obvious shortcomings...you haven't thought about what it takes to be a man much less how to be a man...you have no answers and you have nothing.

Rights:
Right to bear arms and shall never be infringed.
Right to non-socialist healthcare.
Right to freedom to say what you please.
Right to live in a country not owned by the Chinese.
Right to live in a society ruled by those who oppose bigotry and corruption.
Right to your privacy.
Right to live in peace, without people threatening subpoenas on you. (Sorry, had to do a joke answer)
Right to happiness.
Right to know the truth.
Right to a more perfect union.
Give me some time and I'll come up with some others.
Why would I allow Washington tax collectors to collect in my territory? The people are citizens of my new country, and thus are outside the jurisdiction of Washington.

That sounds very noble.

But let's look at your list, shall we?

Rights:
1)Right to bear arms and shall never be infringed.
already exists

2)Right to non-socialist healthcare.
Who will pay these doctors, nurses and for the medicines? And those who have no money, will they have medical care? If so, it will be socialistic.

3)Right to freedom to say what you please.
Already exists

4)Right to live in a country not owned by the Chinese.
We owe the Chinese a lot of money. Destroying infrastructure will not change that But the Chinese do not own this country.

5)Right to live in a society ruled by those who oppose bigotry and corruption.
So who decides who rules? You have said you will step down. Now you are guaranteeing that those who follow you will never be bigoted or corrupt?

6)Right to your privacy.
You have already invaded, killed, and demanded taxes be paid. I would call those invasions of privacy.

7)Right to live in peace, without people threatening subpoenas on you. (Sorry, had to do a joke answer)
Live in peace? This, coming from someone who violently removed the duly elected gov't, is laughable.

8)Right to happiness.
You are actually willing to guarantee happiness? Wow. You are seriously naïve.

9)Right to know the truth.
Sounds great but is essentially meaningless

10)Right to a more perfect union.
Not only bogus, but seriously vague


Ok, so me and my well-armed friends will pass on joining your little revolution. Good luck in the northeast, and stay out of the south.

Actually, I never clarified which of Drake_Roberts would not be claiming power. Problem with sharing an account. Drake says, "No." Roberts says, "Fuck, no!" And _ says, "If the people really want me." And as to "a more perfect union" sounding vague and bogus, perhaps you should brush up on your Constitution.