The 2nd Civil War

[Drake_Roberts]

No, you will HAVE to use people who switched sides under duress. Otherwise you will be shedding leadership behind you to run the conquered towns & cities.

The numbers of people "loyal to the cause" will be far to low to mount an effective war machine.

And in addition to those who are "loyal to the cause" you will have far more who want to kill, loot & pillage. You offer them a chance and they will be barbaric marauders. And for each time one of your men rapes, steals, loots, or commits an atrocity against the conquered population, the word will spread and more hatred will be heaped on you.

And the US is never going to loot or pillage. But my men, my Americans, are brutal savages. You should defend the US more and on an open stage for millions to see, Winter. I'd have a revolt in no time.

I didn't say the US would never do anything wrong.

That is not the point. You are the invader. YOu have to convince the population to follow you. If you can't then your revolution will be very short-lived.

And I will. Because once it all starts, I will make public speeches and personally persuade the people to fight for me.

 

[candycorn]

No, you will HAVE to use people who switched sides under duress. Otherwise you will be shedding leadership behind you to run the conquered towns & cities.

The numbers of people "loyal to the cause" will be far to low to mount an effective war machine.

And in addition to those who are "loyal to the cause" you will have far more who want to kill, loot & pillage. You offer them a chance and they will be barbaric marauders. And for each time one of your men rapes, steals, loots, or commits an atrocity against the conquered population, the word will spread and more hatred will be heaped on you.

And the US is never going to loot or pillage. But my men, my Americans, are brutal savages. You should defend the US more and on an open stage for millions to see, Winter. I'd have a revolt in no time.

I didn't say the US would never do anything wrong.

That is not the point. You are the invader. YOu have to convince the population to follow you. If you can't then your revolution will be very short-lived.

He has united liberals and conservatives in one thing...that he's a fucking idiot.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

And the US is never going to loot or pillage. But my men, my Americans, are brutal savages. You should defend the US more and on an open stage for millions to see, Winter. I'd have a revolt in no time.

I didn't say the US would never do anything wrong.

That is not the point. You are the invader. YOu have to convince the population to follow you. If you can't then your revolution will be very short-lived.

He has united liberals and conservatives in one thing...that he's a fucking idiot.

Hell. If all this does is unite libs and pubs and get rid of the partisanship that plagues this country, I will be content. I will have performed my role in the life of America.

 

[oreo]

Everyone knows that at the rate things are going, we will probably have a 2nd Civil War sometime in our near future. The question is, who will come out on top?
Do you think it will be the Dems? The Right? The people? Or some dissident cell? What about a terrorist group?

My hopes and bets are on a dissident cell made up of the common people.

There will be no civil war--like the 1860's--but it wouldn't surprise me to see some states want to exit the Federal Government umbrella.

Obamacare is a big problem for them--their constituents are getting screwed over--their costs will go up dramatically. States will start to exempt themselves and their constituents from the Obamacare mandates--giving the Federal Government the middle finger and that's where it's going to start.

 

[WinterBorn]

Drake Roberts, let me help you see the futility of what you are proposing. Luckily, this is one of my insomnia nights, and I have a tasty adult beverage at hand.

You are proposing a military campaign within the US. You say you will start with those loyal to the cause.

I do not think you have the capability, but I am going to start you (for the sake of this discussion) with a sizeable force. Let's say you have 50,000 healthy men ready to serve. I will even give you that all 50,000 have weapons and as much ammo as they can carry.

I do not see you having any worthwhile air support, due to the expense and difficulty maintaining it. So your force would be vulnerable to air attacks from the beginning.

Have you given any thought to how much ammunition you will need? In WWII, the US military expended 25,000 rounds for each enemy soldier killed. In Korea that number climbed to 100,000 rounds per enemy casualty. In Vietnam we expended 200,000 rounds per enemy casualty. So if you plan to kill roughly 4 times as many enemy combatants as you have soldiers (200,000 enemy casualties), and you are extra well disciplined and only expend 100,000 rounds per casualty, you will need to have access to 20,000,000,000 rounds of ammunition. Good luck obtaining it. Oh, and before you say you plan to raid existing gov't installations, that will only work once or twice. After that the federal supplies will be moved or they will be sacrificed before they are lost. One smart bomb will destroy the facility and remove your resupply.

And how will you move your forces? Trucks? Plan to put all your gear and troops into one area so an air strike can wipe you out? Ever think that one sniper with a .308 can prevent your convoy from crossing a bridge and thereby hold you at a bottleneck point?

If you do manage to take a city. How will you bring in food? Do you think the federal gov't will allow food to be shipped in? Or will the food be drugged?

How long do you think the power will stay on? You plan to tax people and want them to continue to produce, but the electrical power will be taken out as soon as you take a city. That is a very simple act.


Do I really need to go on?

 

[candycorn]

I didn't say the US would never do anything wrong.

That is not the point. You are the invader. YOu have to convince the population to follow you. If you can't then your revolution will be very short-lived.

He has united liberals and conservatives in one thing...that he's a fucking idiot.

Hell. If all this does is unite libs and pubs and get rid of the partisanship that plagues this country, I will be content. I will have performed my role in the life of America.

You're comic relief...we don't talk about abortion when we are all talking about what a fucking idiot you are.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

I do believe you all are forgetting one key point. Drake_Roberts= No war unless the nation has gotten so bad that in no way will the current path work. If the people are already declaring mass war on the US gov't. Or if the government starts killing harmless protestors for protesting their corruption. Not because I feel like it or I think it sounds fun.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

He has united liberals and conservatives in one thing...that he's a fucking idiot.

Hell. If all this does is unite libs and pubs and get rid of the partisanship that plagues this country, I will be content. I will have performed my role in the life of America.

You're comic relief...we don't talk about abortion when we are all talking about what a fucking idiot you are.

If my efforts help America in any way, I will be content.

 

[WinterBorn]

And the US is never going to loot or pillage. But my men, my Americans, are brutal savages. You should defend the US more and on an open stage for millions to see, Winter. I'd have a revolt in no time.

I didn't say the US would never do anything wrong.

That is not the point. You are the invader. YOu have to convince the population to follow you. If you can't then your revolution will be very short-lived.

And I will. Because once it all starts, I will make public speeches and personally persuade the people to fight for me.

Public speeches? The feds will control or jam the news outlets in the areas you are after. So you will have to give those speeches in person. You would not live for very long. Your "loyal subjects" do not have the experience or the resources to protect you when you are speaking to large crowds. One sniper and a clear line of sight is all it will take.

 

[candycorn]

Drake Roberts, let me help you see the futility of what you are proposing. Luckily, this is one of my insomnia nights, and I have a tasty adult beverage at hand.

You are proposing a military campaign within the US. You say you will start with those loyal to the cause.

I do not think you have the capability, but I am going to start you (for the sake of this discussion) with a sizeable force. Let's say you have 50,000 healthy men ready to serve. I will even give you that all 50,000 have weapons and as much ammo as they can carry.

I do not see you having any worthwhile air support, due to the expense and difficulty maintaining it. So your force would be vulnerable to air attacks from the beginning.

Have you given any thought to how much ammunition you will need? In WWII, the US military expended 25,000 rounds for each enemy soldier killed. In Korea that number climbed to 100,000 rounds per enemy casualty. In Vietnam we expended 200,000 rounds per enemy casualty. So if you plan to kill roughly 4 times as many enemy combatants as you have soldiers (200,000 enemy casualties), and you are extra well disciplined and only expend 100,000 rounds per casualty, you will need to have access to 20,000,000,000 rounds of ammunition. Good luck obtaining it. Oh, and before you say you plan to raid existing gov't installations, that will only work once or twice. After that the federal supplies will be moved or they will be sacrificed before they are lost. One smart bomb will destroy the facility and remove your resupply.

And how will you move your forces? Trucks? Plan to put all your gear and troops into one area so an air strike can wipe you out? Ever think that one sniper with a .308 can prevent your convoy from crossing a bride and thereby hold you at a bottleneck point?

If you do manage to take a city. How will you bring in food? Do you think the federal gov't will allow food to be shipped in? Or will the food be drugged?

How long do you think the power will stay on? You plan to tax people and want them to continue to produce, but the electrical power will be taken out as soon as you take a city. That is a very simple act.


Do I really need to go on?

Add in 50,000 armed men who haven't been paid. Wouldn't want to be their leader.

Add in that, since he'll still be using green backs that will be instantly limited to the supply on hand...interest rates will be through the roof and the ability to get a loan will be equivalent to the new republic's chances...zero.

 

[candycorn]

I do believe you all are forgetting one key point. Drake_Roberts= No war unless the nation has gotten so bad that in no way will the current path work. If the people are already declaring mass war on the US gov't. Or if the government starts killing harmless protestors for protesting their corruption. Not because I feel like it or I think it sounds fun.

You can't even list 5 specific real grievances. Pfft...loser.

 

[WinterBorn]

I do believe you all are forgetting one key point. Drake_Roberts= No war unless the nation has gotten so bad that in no way will the current path work. If the people are already declaring mass war on the US gov't. Or if the government starts killing harmless protestors for protesting their corruption. Not because I feel like it or I think it sounds fun.

Now why would we think you want war?

Where would we have gotten the impression that you liked the idea or that you wanted a war? Hmmm....

Could it be when you posted "I, on the other hand, practice shooting actual rifles (as opposed to video game ones) constantly, study military tactics and logistics, acquaint myself with military equipment and gear, condition myself for long marches and hikes and extreme weather conditions, am a very persuasive speaker (face to face), am highly manipulative, make wonderful grades throughout school, etc."?

So you practice marksmanship constantly (with actual rifles), study military tactics and logistics, spend time looking at military gear, condition yourself for long marches, are manipulative and make good grades??

Unless there is a war, you have no career skills. lol

 

[American4Americ]

Rights:
Right to bear arms and shall never be infringed.
Right to non-socialist healthcare.
Right to freedom to say what you please.
Right to live in a country not owned by the Chinese.
Right to live in a society ruled by those who oppose bigotry and corruption.
Right to your privacy.
Right to live in peace, without people threatening subpoenas on you. (Sorry, had to do a joke answer)
Right to happiness.
Right to know the truth.
Right to a more perfect union.
Give me some time and I'll come up with some others.
Why would I allow Washington tax collectors to collect in my territory? The people are citizens of my new country, and thus are outside the jurisdiction of Washington.

That sounds very noble.

But let's look at your list, shall we?

Rights:
1)Right to bear arms and shall never be infringed.
already exists

2)Right to non-socialist healthcare.
Who will pay these doctors, nurses and for the medicines? And those who have no money, will they have medical care? If so, it will be socialistic.

3)Right to freedom to say what you please.
Already exists

4)Right to live in a country not owned by the Chinese.
We owe the Chinese a lot of money. Destroying infrastructure will not change that But the Chinese do not own this country.

5)Right to live in a society ruled by those who oppose bigotry and corruption.
So who decides who rules? You have said you will step down. Now you are guaranteeing that those who follow you will never be bigoted or corrupt?

6)Right to your privacy.
You have already invaded, killed, and demanded taxes be paid. I would call those invasions of privacy.

7)Right to live in peace, without people threatening subpoenas on you. (Sorry, had to do a joke answer)
Live in peace? This, coming from someone who violently removed the duly elected gov't, is laughable.

8)Right to happiness.
You are actually willing to guarantee happiness? Wow. You are seriously naïve.

9)Right to know the truth.
Sounds great but is essentially meaningless

10)Right to a more perfect union.
Not only bogus, but seriously vague


Ok, so me and my well-armed friends will pass on joining your little revolution. Good luck in the northeast, and stay out of the south.

Actually, I never clarified which of Drake_Roberts would not be claiming power. Problem with sharing an account. Drake says, "No." Roberts says, "Fuck, no!" And _ says, "If the people really want me." And as to "a more perfect union" sounding vague and bogus, perhaps you should brush up on your Constitution.

Drake Roberts is a constitutional scholar now.

 

[American4Americ]

And the US is never going to loot or pillage. But my men, my Americans, are brutal savages. You should defend the US more and on an open stage for millions to see, Winter. I'd have a revolt in no time.

I didn't say the US would never do anything wrong.

That is not the point. You are the invader. YOu have to convince the population to follow you. If you can't then your revolution will be very short-lived.

And I will. Because once it all starts, I will make public speeches and personally persuade the people to fight for me.

You can't even persuade a group of people on the internet to do anything but laugh at you.

 

[Contumacious]

See shit brains...you can't name the rights you're going to restore...

Online taxes are real money shit brains....and your hostages will still be paying them.

Still going to use Federal Reserve Notes? Really? And the Federal Reserve Bank is going to send you money? Are you that fucking insane? Money will be leaving your country and nothing will be coming in. You will be surrounded you ignorant piece of shit!!!

So there will still be tax collectors collecting taxes for the Washington government? Wow... and the people will pay that in addition to your taxes? Obviously that won't fly.

Don't worry about addressing these obvious shortcomings...you haven't thought about what it takes to be a man much less how to be a man...you have no answers and you have nothing.

Rights:
Right to bear arms and shall never be infringed.

We currently have that right.

The right has been reduced to a privilege by the powers that be. If individuals are subject to background checks and all kinds of regulations then it is NOT a right.

If the bureaucrats decide whether or not individuals have a right then you have fascism:

...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....

Benito Mussolini

.

 

[candycorn]

Rights:
Right to bear arms and shall never be infringed.

We currently have that right.

The right has been reduced to a privilege by the powers that be. If individuals are subject to background checks and all kinds of regulations then it is NOT a right.
.

Your right to swing your fist stops at my face. We currently have the right to bear arms. You're simply mis-informed.

 

[Contumacious]

We currently have that right.

The right has been reduced to a privilege by the powers that be. If individuals are subject to background checks and all kinds of regulations then it is NOT a right.
.

Your right to swing your fist stops at my face. We currently have the right to bear arms. You're simply mis-informed.

HUH?

What the fuck does you face has to do with my ABSOLUTE right to bear ams?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

You are simply naive, gullible and willing to accept enslavement.

.

 

[candycorn]

The right has been reduced to a privilege by the powers that be. If individuals are subject to background checks and all kinds of regulations then it is NOT a right.
.

Your right to swing your fist stops at my face. We currently have the right to bear arms. You're simply mis-informed.

HUH?
.

There are limitations to your right to swing your fist. Your right to bear arms was never "absolute" in the first place.

 

[Contumacious]

Your right to swing your fist stops at my face. We currently have the right to bear arms. You're simply mis-informed.

HUH?
.

There are limitations to your right to swing your fist. Your right to bear arms was never "absolute" in the first place.

HUH?

The right there specified is that of 'bearing arms for a lawful purpose.' This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The second amendment declares that it shall not be infringed; but this, as has been seen, means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress. .......' 'not surrendered or restrained' by the Constituton of the United States.


UNITED STATES v. CRUIKSHANK ET AL., 92 U.S. 542 (U.S. 10/01/1875)


You are simply naive, gullible and willing to accept enslavement.


.

 

[candycorn]

[/B]

HUH?
.

There are limitations to your right to swing your fist. Your right to bear arms was never "absolute" in the first place.

HUH?

See above for response.