The Arctic is already effectively ice free

[Billy_Bob]

The OP discusses what a scientist found when he went to the Arctic specifically to look at the ice and what he found. The OP discusses the differences between what the satellites think they see and what is actually floating around up there.

You've already heard ad infinitum how that wisp os CO2 is doing that Frank. I've asked you this before but you've never answered. What do YOU think is raising Arctic temperatures and melting all the ice? Or are you going to argue that the ice is all still there?

You do know that the Arctic and Antarctic have both been ice free many times over earths history.. The Roman Warm Period was one of those times.

The earth is cyclic and this is just one more cycle..

What i think is hilarious about this article is that this scientist refuses to look at natural causes for the cyclical trends. The paper is a propaganda piece. His assertions are wild ass guesses, no science involved.. This is precisely what is wrong with the peer review process. Basic science is not present. When crap like this gets passed off as science we have problems..

 

[Billy_Bob]

We may not be controlling the weather, but we are definately changing it. From the increase in 100,000 acre fires from less than one per year to nearly 10 per year in the us in the last 20 years, to the decline of ice area and change in the type of ice in the Arctic, we are seeing those changes negatively affecting all of us. Those in denial, and those outright lying about the changes will delay any efforts to ameliorate the problems associated with the changes until they create catastrophes for a large number of people. I hope to be a leading voice is seeing that there is an accounting for this.

That's hilarious dude. The Forest Service has many papers showing that the increased fire size is due to poor forest management. Your problem is you have claimed so many things are caused by AGW that everyone knows that NOTHING is caused by AGW. The climate changes. It always has. Man's effect on it though, there is nothing to show that man has any but a very local (UHI) effect.

And you are again a liar, Mr. Westwall. High temperatures and drought are the primary causes of the present fires. And poor forest management is a product of a Congress that gives x amount of money for fire figthing, knowing full well that the amount is far too small to do the job, then forces the Forest Service to take money out of the budget for managing the forests to fight the fires. Really, the Forest Service should just fight fires on public land, and the instant that it crosses the line, let whomevers property that is handle the fire at that point. Then see who is screaming.

Poor forest management and putting out ground fires that used to clear underbrush yearly are why we have large uncontrollable fires you fucking moron. Drought has been around as long as the earth has... AND IT GOES IN CYCLES !!!

 

[Crick]

You don't think there's anything special about the current drought in the southwest? It's broken records dating back centuries. Or do you think those are the lies of conspirators getting rich from drought measures?

 

[Crick]

The OP discusses what a scientist found when he went to the Arctic specifically to look at the ice and what he found. The OP discusses the differences between what the satellites think they see and what is actually floating around up there.

You've already heard ad infinitum how that wisp os CO2 is doing that Frank. I've asked you this before but you've never answered. What do YOU think is raising Arctic temperatures and melting all the ice? Or are you going to argue that the ice is all still there?

You do know that the Arctic and Antarctic have both been ice free many times over earths history.. The Roman Warm Period was one of those times.

So, you don't care that the Arctic is going ice free. You must not care, then, that the world is getting warmer. Neither must you care the sea level is rising and that weather extremes are becoming worse and more common.

The earth is cyclic and this is just one more cycle.

Look at the temperature data and show us the last time the Earth's temperature rose as rapidly as it has risen in the last century. Look at the CO2 data and show us the last time levels have risen as fast they have in the last century. Look at the ocean pH data dn show us the last time they have dropped as precipitously as they are dropping now. This is no fucking cycle. This is a goddamn catastrophe in the making and you're one of the idiots telling us not to worry.

What i think is hilarious

THERE'S NOTHING HILARIOUS HERE YOU GODDAMNED IDIOT

My children's world is going to be a pile of shit that could have been stopped, that could have been prevented were it not for worse than worthless shit-for-brains assholes like you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What's "unknown"? Your stupid theory is that a wisp of CO2 is generating all this "Excess heat", show us! That's science.

My theory? Certainly doesn't appear to be my theory at all.

What are you basing any of this on, for it to be my theory?

you believe in it correct?

What's "unknown"? Your stupid theory is that a wisp of CO2 is generating all this "Excess heat", show us! That's science.

My theory? Certainly doesn't appear to be my theory at all.

What are you basing any of this on, for it to be my theory?

you believe in it correct?

Punctuation???????

Believe in what exactly?

 

[frigidweirdo]

The idea that you think we can control the weather......

We think we can control things more than we can.

Many people are taking a bet on the fact that the weather won't suddenly go a little AWOL in terms of what is good for humans on this planet. Therefore they say that pumping a Greenhouse gas into the atmosphere at unprecedented rates won't actually do anything bad for us.

When, or if, this turns out not to be the case, we can't go back. Is it worth the risk? Oh, and all for a little more profit.

again, there is no evidence to support that statement about weather suddenly go a little AWOL. Where is weather different? Just name somewhere.

I'm talking about the future. So, clearly there is no evidence about the future.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What's "unknown"? Your stupid theory is that a wisp of CO2 is generating all this "Excess heat", show us! That's science.

My theory? Certainly doesn't appear to be my theory at all.

What are you basing any of this on, for it to be my theory?

Did you sign up with Manmade climate change theory?

Depends what the "Manmade climate change theory" is. You're being rather specific.

Maybe I can make this easier for you. I look at the evidence, and I make a judgement on what I think is happening.

what evidence are you looking at?

All evidence.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Arctic Sea Ice and Al Gore s Prediction 2013
EXCERPT
Dr. Barber has been searching for 200-foot thick multiyear Arctic sea ice in the Beaufort Sea, an area of the Arctic Ocean that stretches for almost 1,000 miles along the coasts of Alaska and Canada.

For his research in summer 2010, he cruised through the Beaufort Sea in the ice breaker Amundsen and never did find that multiyear ice. What Barber's team did find was vastly different from what the satellites were telling them was there. They thought they would find 20- to 30-foot thick multiyear ice covering 7 percent to 9 percent of the Beaufort Sea.

Instead, they found 25 percent open water and very small remnant multiyear and first-year floes interspersed with thin new ice in between. Unfortunately, these satellite errors are not in our favor. The problem is because these conditions are new. They simply have not existed before, so there was no way to test for them and know that this sea icescape looks, to the eye of the satellite, exactly like a sea icescape that is thick and solid.7

The ice the Amundsen encountered was so rotten that it did not impede the forward progress of the ship. What they found was hundreds of miles of what Barber called "rotten ice." This was 20-inch layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice.8This discovery came as a great surprise to this researcher as he cruised through the rotten ice of the Beaufort Sea at 14 miles per hour (the top speed of his vessel in open water is 15 miles per hour). The Amundsen was designed to break 1-meter thick sea ice (3.3 feet) at 3.4 miles per hour. The ice they found was so rotten that the Amundsen could break 19 to 26 feet of rotten multiyear ice at 5.7 miles per hour.9

EXCERPT
"Ship navigation across the pole is imminent as the type of ice which resides there is no longer a barrier to [normal] ships in the late summer and fall,"10

"If you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we we're doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through. I would argue that we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic."11

The entire human race is about to face the most radical change in lifestyle it has ever seen. Most people are oblivious to it but it is near. Global Warming is right at the spot where we won't be able to reverse it, if we haven't already done past it. Once Runaway Global Warming begins the game is over.

There have been 5 major mass extinctions in the history of life on Earth, we are now in well into the beginning of the 6th.

Because governments around the world are generally run by the wealthy that don't want to give up their revenue streams, the rest of humanity will pay the price for the greed of these very few scumbags.

Of course the moment will come when the masses DO figure out how horrendous life is going to get and guess who they will be pointing at to string up on the maypole.

Tell that to the Romans. It was at least 2 degrees warmer during the Roman Warming Period and civilization blossomed. You clowns haven't got a fucking clue of what you are speaking of. Try reading some history instead of your science fiction.

You might actually learn something.

The problem isn't being 2 degrees warmer. The problem is when it becomes a runaway train that we can't ever hope to stop.

Runaway temp is a lie... The convection cycle would have to be reduced by 75% in order for earths temp to runaway..and it would have to be replaced by a gas that blocks further convection from working.

You just said it was a lie, then you showed how it could happen. Hmmmm.......

 

[Old Rocks]

The OP discusses what a scientist found when he went to the Arctic specifically to look at the ice and what he found. The OP discusses the differences between what the satellites think they see and what is actually floating around up there.

You've already heard ad infinitum how that wisp os CO2 is doing that Frank. I've asked you this before but you've never answered. What do YOU think is raising Arctic temperatures and melting all the ice? Or are you going to argue that the ice is all still there?

You do know that the Arctic and Antarctic have both been ice free many times over earths history.. The Roman Warm Period was one of those times.

The earth is cyclic and this is just one more cycle..

What i think is hilarious about this article is that this scientist refuses to look at natural causes for the cyclical trends. The paper is a propaganda piece. His assertions are wild ass guesses, no science involved.. This is precisely what is wrong with the peer review process. Basic science is not present. When crap like this gets passed off as science we have problems..

The Arctic has been ice free in this interglacial? Would you care to link to some credible paper that states that, and provides evidence. Really, it is just one more statement that you have pulled out of your ass.

 

[skookerasbil]

You don't think there's anything special about the current drought in the southwest? It's broken records dating back centuries. Or do you think those are the lies of conspirators getting rich from drought measures?

C'mon s0n..........this is the biggest pile of shit Ive ever heard on here ( except for this utter bozo level of BS on ice free arctic ).............this drought/climate change link. Intellectual dishonesty to the nth degree!!!

Would you like me to post a graph of drought in America from between 1930 and 1965?


So how about it s0n? Want to go down hard in here???

 

[skookerasbil]

Ummm........lets face it........the AGW nutballs ALWAYS play the same ghey strategy of never putting todays weather into any historical context. This way..........it looks real, real, real scary to the zombies of the world. Its the typical shit we see from progressives all the time. Telling half/truths or lying outright. They always depend on people not checking the records.

It........is.........so..........fucking..............ghey

These people are unprincipled and lack character. They will tell hundreds of tall tales to obtain the goals of their agendas. They walk far, far away from the many predictions they make that fall flat on their faces. Every global warming nutter in here went off the deep end on tornado's and hurricanes with their silly little predictions of doom and now act like they never said it. And then there's the snow...........a few years back, every k00k in here told us the age of snow was nearly over. Now? Now they are saying we are seeing MORE snow due to climate change!!!



These people are intellectual bozo's.............oh...........and before I forget................the latest BS these people are peddling is the drought. It is epic. It is historic. It is the end of times!!!


No it aint assholes.........................



[URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/Drought-Maps-1896-2012.png.html][/URL]

 

[westwall]

You don't think there's anything special about the current drought in the southwest? It's broken records dating back centuries. Or do you think those are the lies of conspirators getting rich from drought measures?

No. Not a bit. In the last 1200 years there have been at least two droughts that lasted over two hundred years. You were saying?

"During the medieval period, there was over a century of drought in the Southwest and California. The past repeats itself," says Ingram, who is co-author of The West Without Water: What Past Floods, Droughts, and Other Climate Clues Tell Us About Tomorrow. Indeed, Ingram believes the 20th century may have been a wet anomaly."


Could California s Drought Last 200 Years

 

[Crick]

I had no diffficulty finding a source that disagrees: Unprecedented 21st century drought risk in the American Southwest and Central Plains Science Advances

A connection between this drought, the severity of this drought and global warming and other climate changes being caused by human GHG emissions, is a common viewpoint among climate scientists.

Abstract
In the Southwest and Central Plains of Western North America, climate change is expected to increase drought severity in the coming decades. These regions nevertheless experienced extended Medieval-era droughts that were more persistent than any historical event, providing crucial targets in the paleoclimate record for benchmarking the severity of future drought risks. We use an empirical drought reconstruction and three soil moisture metrics from 17 state-of-the-art general circulation models to show that these models project significantly drier conditions in the later half of the 21st century compared to the 20th century and earlier paleoclimatic intervals. This desiccation is consistent across most of the models and moisture balance variables, indicating a coherent and robust drying response to warming despite the diversity of models and metrics analyzed. Notably, future drought risk will likely exceed even the driest centuries of the Medieval Climate Anomaly (1100–1300 CE) in both moderate (RCP 4.5) and high (RCP 8.5) future emissions scenarios, leading to unprecedented drought conditions during the last millennium.

 

[skookerasbil]

I had no diffficulty finding a source that disagrees: Unprecedented 21st century drought risk in the American Southwest and Central Plains Science Advances

A connection between this drought, the severity of this drought and global warming and other climate changes being caused by human GHG emissions, is a common viewpoint among climate scientists.

Abstract
In the Southwest and Central Plains of Western North America, climate change is expected to increase drought severity in the coming decades. These regions nevertheless experienced extended Medieval-era droughts that were more persistent than any historical event, providing crucial targets in the paleoclimate record for benchmarking the severity of future drought risks. We use an empirical drought reconstruction and three soil moisture metrics from 17 state-of-the-art general circulation models to show that these models project significantly drier conditions in the later half of the 21st century compared to the 20th century and earlier paleoclimatic intervals. This desiccation is consistent across most of the models and moisture balance variables, indicating a coherent and robust drying response to warming despite the diversity of models and metrics analyzed. Notably, future drought risk will likely exceed even the driest centuries of the Medieval Climate Anomaly (1100–1300 CE) in both moderate (RCP 4.5) and high (RCP 8.5) future emissions scenarios, leading to unprecedented drought conditions during the last millennium.

I found a prominent scientist who disagress ( in about 5 seconds of searching ).........."current climate change......the problem has been oversimplified. We've neglected to give enough consideration to natural processes............"

"we don't know that fossil fuels have a significant influence compared to other influences..............."


dr judith curry alarmism - Bing Videos

 

[westwall]

I had no diffficulty finding a source that disagrees: Unprecedented 21st century drought risk in the American Southwest and Central Plains Science Advances

A connection between this drought, the severity of this drought and global warming and other climate changes being caused by human GHG emissions, is a common viewpoint among climate scientists.

Abstract
In the Southwest and Central Plains of Western North America, climate change is expected to increase drought severity in the coming decades. These regions nevertheless experienced extended Medieval-era droughts that were more persistent than any historical event, providing crucial targets in the paleoclimate record for benchmarking the severity of future drought risks. We use an empirical drought reconstruction and three soil moisture metrics from 17 state-of-the-art general circulation models to show that these models project significantly drier conditions in the later half of the 21st century compared to the 20th century and earlier paleoclimatic intervals. This desiccation is consistent across most of the models and moisture balance variables, indicating a coherent and robust drying response to warming despite the diversity of models and metrics analyzed. Notably, future drought risk will likely exceed even the driest centuries of the Medieval Climate Anomaly (1100–1300 CE) in both moderate (RCP 4.5) and high (RCP 8.5) future emissions scenarios, leading to unprecedented drought conditions during the last millennium.

So, the paper I presented used historical FACT. And you give us a paper based entirely on computer models. And you think that science fiction is more pertinent than actual facts. Wow, dude, you really are stupid.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I had no diffficulty finding a source that disagrees: Unprecedented 21st century drought risk in the American Southwest and Central Plains Science Advances

A connection between this drought, the severity of this drought and global warming and other climate changes being caused by human GHG emissions, is a common viewpoint among climate scientists.

Abstract
In the Southwest and Central Plains of Western North America, climate change is expected to increase drought severity in the coming decades. These regions nevertheless experienced extended Medieval-era droughts that were more persistent than any historical event, providing crucial targets in the paleoclimate record for benchmarking the severity of future drought risks. We use an empirical drought reconstruction and three soil moisture metrics from 17 state-of-the-art general circulation models to show that these models project significantly drier conditions in the later half of the 21st century compared to the 20th century and earlier paleoclimatic intervals. This desiccation is consistent across most of the models and moisture balance variables, indicating a coherent and robust drying response to warming despite the diversity of models and metrics analyzed. Notably, future drought risk will likely exceed even the driest centuries of the Medieval Climate Anomaly (1100–1300 CE) in both moderate (RCP 4.5) and high (RCP 8.5) future emissions scenarios, leading to unprecedented drought conditions during the last millennium.

So, the paper I presented used historical FACT. And you give us a paper based entirely on computer models. And you think that science fiction is more pertinent than actual facts. Wow, dude, you really are stupid.

They have to adjust the past droughts to make them line up with the models

 

[westwall]

I had no diffficulty finding a source that disagrees: Unprecedented 21st century drought risk in the American Southwest and Central Plains Science Advances

A connection between this drought, the severity of this drought and global warming and other climate changes being caused by human GHG emissions, is a common viewpoint among climate scientists.

Abstract
In the Southwest and Central Plains of Western North America, climate change is expected to increase drought severity in the coming decades. These regions nevertheless experienced extended Medieval-era droughts that were more persistent than any historical event, providing crucial targets in the paleoclimate record for benchmarking the severity of future drought risks. We use an empirical drought reconstruction and three soil moisture metrics from 17 state-of-the-art general circulation models to show that these models project significantly drier conditions in the later half of the 21st century compared to the 20th century and earlier paleoclimatic intervals. This desiccation is consistent across most of the models and moisture balance variables, indicating a coherent and robust drying response to warming despite the diversity of models and metrics analyzed. Notably, future drought risk will likely exceed even the driest centuries of the Medieval Climate Anomaly (1100–1300 CE) in both moderate (RCP 4.5) and high (RCP 8.5) future emissions scenarios, leading to unprecedented drought conditions during the last millennium.

So, the paper I presented used historical FACT. And you give us a paper based entirely on computer models. And you think that science fiction is more pertinent than actual facts. Wow, dude, you really are stupid.

They have to adjust the past droughts to make them line up with the models

Climatologists are the newest breed of end of the world charlatan, that's for sure.

 

[sakinago]

You don't think there's anything special about the current drought in the southwest? It's broken records dating back centuries. Or do you think those are the lies of conspirators getting rich from drought measures?

Try dating back 40 years

 

[ScienceRocks]

It isn't ice free and it probably won't be for another 70 years...It has been on the trend line,,,

 

[koshergrl]

Arctic Sea Ice and Al Gore s Prediction 2013
EXCERPT
Dr. Barber has been searching for 200-foot thick multiyear Arctic sea ice in the Beaufort Sea, an area of the Arctic Ocean that stretches for almost 1,000 miles along the coasts of Alaska and Canada.

For his research in summer 2010, he cruised through the Beaufort Sea in the ice breaker Amundsen and never did find that multiyear ice. What Barber's team did find was vastly different from what the satellites were telling them was there. They thought they would find 20- to 30-foot thick multiyear ice covering 7 percent to 9 percent of the Beaufort Sea.

Instead, they found 25 percent open water and very small remnant multiyear and first-year floes interspersed with thin new ice in between. Unfortunately, these satellite errors are not in our favor. The problem is because these conditions are new. They simply have not existed before, so there was no way to test for them and know that this sea icescape looks, to the eye of the satellite, exactly like a sea icescape that is thick and solid.7

The ice the Amundsen encountered was so rotten that it did not impede the forward progress of the ship. What they found was hundreds of miles of what Barber called "rotten ice." This was 20-inch layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice.8This discovery came as a great surprise to this researcher as he cruised through the rotten ice of the Beaufort Sea at 14 miles per hour (the top speed of his vessel in open water is 15 miles per hour). The Amundsen was designed to break 1-meter thick sea ice (3.3 feet) at 3.4 miles per hour. The ice they found was so rotten that the Amundsen could break 19 to 26 feet of rotten multiyear ice at 5.7 miles per hour.9

EXCERPT
"Ship navigation across the pole is imminent as the type of ice which resides there is no longer a barrier to [normal] ships in the late summer and fall,"10

"If you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we we're doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through. I would argue that we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic."11

The entire human race is about to face the most radical change in lifestyle it has ever seen. Most people are oblivious to it but it is near. Global Warming is right at the spot where we won't be able to reverse it, if we haven't already done past it. Once Runaway Global Warming begins the game is over.

There have been 5 major mass extinctions in the history of life on Earth, we are now in well into the beginning of the 6th.

Because governments around the world are generally run by the wealthy that don't want to give up their revenue streams, the rest of humanity will pay the price for the greed of these very few scumbags.

Of course the moment will come when the masses DO figure out how horrendous life is going to get and guess who they will be pointing at to string up on the maypole.

The human race is going to face a radical change in lifestyle. But it won't be caused by global warming. It will be caused by progressives forcing us into the dark ages because of their preternatural horror of overpopulation and warm weather. Obama's working overtime to #1, sharply cut our access to energy (read...HEAT and AIR CONDITIONING and REFRIGERATION and FOOD PRODUCTION) #2, establish government control of our food supply, #3 establish government oversight of reproduction and #4 establish government control of child rearing. We're going to be cold, starving, poor, childless, and really really uneducated. We'll be North Koreans.