the Book of Mormon

[yiostheoy]

What would it take for you to read the Book of Mormon and take the challenge?

Looks like you Avatar4321 live in Lutheran country.

I guess they lost you.

Looks like the Mormons got you.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Avatar4321

If you don't believe strongly enough in your own religion to face skeptics and questions, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

 

[Mad Scientist]

My Dad and his wife are Mormons and we've discussed Mormonism many times.
Id say it ranks right up there with Scientology and the Jim Jones cult.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

My Dad and his wife are Mormons and we've discussed Mormonism many times.
Id say it ranks right up there with Scientology and the Jim Jones cult.

A family member of mine as well and I've known some. Utterly nutso but that's true of all religion. If we ever demand religion make sense, it would disappear.

Notice that even Avatar4321 and/or other morms can defend it. Pretty much says it.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Avatar4321]

Any American historian of the 19th century social and religious trends of the time should read it, yes.

Many of my good friends are some sort of Mormon, so, I have read through it from front to back, and have perused it many times.

My favorite portion is Mosiah Chapters 3 and 4. I advise all far right, corporate right, and mean-spirited to read it, think about it, and change their ways.

But yet Utah votes 70% republican and votes some of the most far right senators in the country.

Jake has a unique interpretation of those chapters. He seems to think that encouraging people to serve others equates to handing power over to the government to do things.

I encourage you to read the chapters for yourself

Mosiah 2
Mosiah 3
Mosiah 4
Mosiah 5

 

[Avatar4321]

Joseph Smith was a shyster. Not unlike L Ron Hubbard.

I would argue that the Book of Mormon proves otherwise

 

[Avatar4321]

What would it take for you to read the Book of Mormon and take the challenge?

What challenge ?

"Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

" And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

"And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." (Moroni 10:3-5)

It's a unique challenge. I don't know any other book that contains a promise that if you ask God He will show you it is true.

 

[Avatar4321]

What would it take for you to read the Book of Mormon and take the challenge?

I've never really like reading Science Fiction..

There is no science in their fiction.

Sailing ships around 600 BC were barely able to ply the Mediterranean and coastal Spain. They were longboats called galleys used by the Greeks and later the Vikings.

There is no way one of these 7th Century BC boats could ply the Atlantic, Indian, or Pacific Ocean(s) and make it all the way to South America. So the boat trip is out of the question.

Even Columbus with his Spanish caravels needed 3 ships to carry enough supplies to get his crews all the way to the Caribbean from Spain. 3 not 1. You need to bring fresh water, salted meats, dried fruits, dried bread called hardtack, etc. You need 3 ships at a minimum, not 1.

The writer of the Bk. of Morm. did not know jack sh!t about sailing or sea travel.

There is no fiction in it either

 

[Avatar4321]

Testimony of Eight Witnesses

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.


Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith

None of these could have written it themselves.

There was not enough brain power in them.

But they could have agreed to say they saw golden or bronze plates.

Testimony of Eight Witnesses

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.


Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith

None of these could have written it themselves.

There was not enough brain power in them.

But they could have agreed to say they saw golden or bronze plates.

They did say they saw the plates. Because they did. They spent their who loves testifying to it. All had incentives to deny it. Oliver lost an election because he wouldn't. David heard a rumor say he denied it and called the press to clearly and unequivocally reaffirm that he did see the plates. Martin spent his life sharing his experience.

That's just the three witnesses. The other eight included martyrs. Every one has an interesting tale. At least one had his testimony put on his tombstone.

That's one of the miracles of Mormonism. Joseph didn't just have experiences and expect others to take his word for it. He multiple witnesses for almost every major revelation in the restoration.

 

[Avatar4321]

When I was younger, and had more time to waste, I used to enjoy spotting and identifying obvious fabrications in it. For example, I have always been fascinated as to why the Book of Mormon is worded exactly like the King James Bible from the 1600's. "And it came to pass..", adding "eth" to words like "seek", so that "seeks" becomes "seeketh", etc., etc. One is forced to conclude that God had decided that the King James language of the 1600's was what he liked, better than the original scriptures, OR the language of the 1800's. Either that, or Joseph Smith was preaching to a pretty naive audience and he was giving them what they expect, rather than what made sense. One would think that if Aramaic was good enough for Jesus, it should have been good enough for Smith. Conversely, if 1800 English was good enough for Smith, it should have been good enough for Maroni.

More significantly, the Bk. Of Morm. contains the exact same mistranslations of the KJV. How is that possible? Did God become stupid?

I have always thought that god was rather absent minded, or perhaps he has been on vacation for a couple of thousand years. If the later, I hope he is having a good time and does not return too soon. He did a lot of "smiting, and "slew" a lot, before that.

Well, if he ever decides on a "second coming", the nutters will demand he cut his hair, put on some clothes and get a job.

Doubt that will ever become a problem though.

Note to Avatar4321 Lots of questions in your thread. Why is it you never ever actually address real questions?

I've answered a number of them. Did you have a question?because I haven't seen one from you.

 

[Avatar4321]

What would it take for you to read the Book of Mormon and take the challenge?

Looks like you Avatar4321 live in Lutheran country.

I guess they lost you.

Looks like the Mormons got you.

I'm a transplant.

 

[Avatar4321]

Avatar4321

If you don't believe strongly enough in your own religion to face skeptics and questions, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

I've barely been on until today. And again you haven't asked a question

 

[Avatar4321]

My Dad and his wife are Mormons and we've discussed Mormonism many times.
Id say it ranks right up there with Scientology and the Jim Jones cult.

And have you read the Book of Mormon and taken the challenge?

 

[Avatar4321]

My Dad and his wife are Mormons and we've discussed Mormonism many times.
Id say it ranks right up there with Scientology and the Jim Jones cult.

A family member of mine as well and I've known some. Utterly nutso but that's true of all religion. If we ever demand religion make sense, it would disappear.

Notice that even Avatar4321 and/or other morms can defend it. Pretty much says it.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

And how can you make sense of a religion you don't attempt to understand? The Book of Mormon is clear in the doctrine it teaches yet convincing anyone to read it for themselves is like pulling teeth.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Any American historian of the 19th century social and religious trends of the time should read it, yes.

Many of my good friends are some sort of Mormon, so, I have read through it from front to back, and have perused it many times.

My favorite portion is Mosiah Chapters 3 and 4. I advise all far right, corporate right, and mean-spirited to read it, think about it, and change their ways.

But yet Utah votes 70% republican and votes some of the most far right senators in the country.

Jake has a unique interpretation of those chapters. He seems to think that encouraging people to serve others equates to handing power over to the government to do things.

I encourage you to read the chapters for yourself

Mosiah 2
Mosiah 3
Mosiah 4
Mosiah 5

Do some reading yourself, Avatar, and you will find:

(1) Utah voted 45.1% for Trump, far less than your supposed 70% that he pulled out of the air.

and (2) The priest king in Mosiah commanded the people to participate in the taking care of the poor. The state was theocratic not libertarian.

 

[Toro]

I'll watch the musical instead.

 

[yiostheoy]

Any American historian of the 19th century social and religious trends of the time should read it, yes.

Many of my good friends are some sort of Mormon, so, I have read through it from front to back, and have perused it many times.

My favorite portion is Mosiah Chapters 3 and 4. I advise all far right, corporate right, and mean-spirited to read it, think about it, and change their ways.

But yet Utah votes 70% republican and votes some of the most far right senators in the country.

Jake has a unique interpretation of those chapters. He seems to think that encouraging people to serve others equates to handing power over to the government to do things.

I encourage you to read the chapters for yourself

Mosiah 2
Mosiah 3
Mosiah 4
Mosiah 5

Welcome back, Mormon boy !!

Did you get any insights about why "the challenge" is long and boring?

To wit:

1 - rambles on and on

2 - very long

3 - sad ending.

Remember the movie version of "Tales From The Dark Side" ?

"Little kids love happy endings!"

 

[yiostheoy]

Do some reading yourself, Avatar4321 , and you will find:

(1) Utah voted 45.1% for Trump, far less than your supposed 70% that he pulled out of the air.

and (2) The priest king in Mosiah commanded the people to participate in the taking care of the poor. The state was theocratic not libertarian.

Trump would have gotten more but the CIA guy ran against him and split the GOP vote in Utah.

 

[yiostheoy]

What would it take for you to read the Book of Mormon and take the challenge?

Looks like you Avatar4321 live in Lutheran country.

I guess they lost you.

Looks like the Mormons got you.

I'm a transplant.

Well now you Avatar4321 are living in the Lutheran heartland of the USA.

Lots of north German immigrants around the turn of the 1900's (pre WW1) moved there (where you live now) and brought their Lutheran Church with them. My grandfather and his family were among them.

My grandmother however and my mom were both Catholic.

Lutherans are #4 in the USA in size, behind the Catholics at #1, Baptist at #2, and Pentecostal at #3.

You guys (Mormons) are right behind them at #6 in the USA.

So when you add up the Armies Of The Lord (Jesus), that's where the various divisions stand.

In the rest of the world there are two more big churches, but they both don't have a lot of population in the USA. They are the Eastern Orthodox and the Anglican.

Worldwide the Catholics are #1, Eastern Orthodox #2, Baptists #3, Anglican #4, and Lutheran #5. Mormons are a tiny trickle on a worldwide scale.

USA has the most Christians when you add up all the different flavors.

List of Christian denominations by number of members - Wikipedia

 

[Sun Devil 92]

What would it take for you to read the Book of Mormon and take the challenge?

What challenge ?

"Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

" And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

"And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." (Moroni 10:3-5)

It's a unique challenge. I don't know any other book that contains a promise that if you ask God He will show you it is true.

So the challenge comes from where ?

I don't know what this references.