The Cliven Bundy Fan-Club DEATHWATCH thread

[Steinlight]

That's only because it many cases it is. It's called paying up for past offenses, and it worked since we have a much better, but hardly great, integrated society where race matters much less than it used to.

I don't share that view. I don't feel I owe a debt to non-whites(does this include debts and set asides for Asians, Latinos, Arabs as well along with blacks?).

The fact is, the guilt trip doesn't work on a good number of people because they aren't naturally self-hating or guilt ridden.

Also, it isn't going to work because none of you on the left can define the point where this supposed debt is repaid. So it is a perpetual debt until Whites are a minority and the new non-white majority has political privileges they do today. I don't think most fair minded independents and conservatives want such a future.

The "debt" is paid by giving their descendants a decent chance on as level a playing field as we can reasonably make. After that it's up to them, and doing such a thing has worked very well indeed.

If you feel no guilt that's because you have a child's view of the world. As long as you didn't steal the cookie personally, none were stolen.

And what you want for a future doesn't matter. Your kind is dying off, literally.

So how many generations of descendants will receive these privileges and how many generations of Whites will continue to be discriminated against? You still haven't answered. This confirms the point, it will go on forever, there is no end point. We will indefinitely have a system of discrimination against Whites. Sorry, most people aren't gonna go for it, and your vitriol saying Whites dying off really doesn't help your case, it just exposes your racism and opposition to equal treatment under the law.

And if blacks and latinos(especially blacks) are going to get anywhere, they are going to have to stop playing the blame game and earn their keep themselves. You don't see Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Indians, or Pakistanis playing these blame games. Most of them come from destitute third world situations, and in the case of Japanese and Chinese, many suffered from systemic discrimination for years in America. However this has not stopped Asians from becoming amongst the highest earning groups in the US, entering universities and professions a disproportionately high rate(even with an affirmative action system that is actually against them now).

So this sob story and trying to play this irrational guilt trip on Whites isn't working anymore, people know it is bunk.

 

[Steinlight]

That's only because it many cases it is. It's called paying up for past offenses, and it worked since we have a much better, but hardly great, integrated society where race matters much less than it used to.

I don't share that view. I don't feel I owe a debt to non-whites(does this include debts and set asides for Asians, Latinos, Arabs as well along with blacks?).

The fact is, the guilt trip doesn't work on a good number of people because they aren't naturally self-hating or guilt ridden.

Also, it isn't going to work because none of you on the left can define the point where this supposed debt is repaid. So it is a perpetual debt until Whites are a minority and the new non-white majority has political privileges they do today. I don't think most fair minded independents and conservatives want such a future.

You can't make this stuff up.

So what are you saying, affirmative action doesn't exist or the changing demographics don't exist?

The left is celebrating both on a daily basis.

You guys need to start keeping your story straight.

 

[Dot Com]

so far we have Beck & Hannity throwing him under the bus. Who else do you people need to prove that the guy is bad news

 

[deltex1]

Racist Clippers Owner Donald Sterling Is a Democrat | National Review Online



Stat man is choking on his own dick.

 

[Jroc]

Now wait a minute Jroc, maybe there is a way to rescue the train-wreck of what you just wrote.

First of all, I don't "love" Obama. I have never "loved" any President.

Second of all, why repeal the 22nd?

Third, this thread IS about one man: Cliven Bundy. I should know, I started the thread. If you want to talk about the "bigger picture", then fine, start a thread and let's talk about the bigger picture. But I guarantee you, in not all too long from now, the Right is going to want to forget Cliven Bundy as quickly as it can. There are far better examples of people being upset about "government overreach" than this.

Fourth: again, you attack ME as a person, but I am not going to do that to you. At some point in time, you need to control your anger so that you can actually debate ideas instead of impugning members of USMB.

Nah on a personal level your fine. it seems to me though, you continue to push this narrative that conservatives are somehow bigots, and you attempt to stay above the fray while doing it. Conservatives are racist, look at what Bundy says. Don’t trust the Christians look and what Pat Robertson said. The country is going downhill with your liberal friends running it. We are more and more a joke abroad, which is very dangerous and the economy still stinks as we are consistently losing our liberties and this is the kind of crap you push? Multiple threads on Bundy? Your thread is not about ”one man” really is it?

The operative word in your statement is "seems".

And the other bolded, in green: I have never, ever said that. I challenge you very directly to find that statement.

Beside, this very thread shows specifically Conservatives who separated themselves from Bundy based on his racist behavior. So, the very existence of OP challenges your claim. I know a great many Conservatives who have not a racist or bigoted bone in their body, but they are not the topic of this thread. Cliven Bundy is.

And I see no reason to constantly have to make a disclaimer like "well, gee, guys, just want to make sure you all 100% for sure know that I don't think that all Conservatives are racists or bigots". No, Jroc, I am not gonna do that. People should be grown up enough to read what is actually written.

This thread is definitely about one man and those who have separated themselves from him for what he did. That is abundantly clear in the OP.

Hope that information helps.

You Clearly without hesitation told me you thought the Tea Party movement was racist, and it was a blanket statement do you deny it?

"Us Jews" that would include yourself right?

And people wonder why many of us Jews are leery of Christian Right-Wing support.

So, Pat Robertson has a Jew on the show and decides to say this kind of stuff.

Not really sure that this is the stuff of outrage, and that's not my point to begin with, but there is more than just a latent anti-Semitism within old Robertson.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...h-diamonds-instead-of-washing-their-cars.html


Push your narrative...

So, once you all see another rat jumping off the USS-Tea Bundy, just post it here!

Still waiting on words of wisdom from:

McConnell
Boehner
Cruz
Perry
Walker
Bush, Jeb
Christie
Rubio
Huckabee
Ryan
Cantor
Trump
Palin

Cuz we know they all abhor racism, right?!?!?

 

[nodoginnafight]

If your views were misrepresented and twisted wouldn't you go on TV to straighten things out?

I know I would.

I don't think he was misrepresented. I would believe misunderstood. Realize, whether you think the video was unfairly edited or not...he is being criticized for HIS words.

What is wrong with his words? He's old. he uses old language, expressions, and idioms, My 94 year old mother uses all sorts of politically incorrect words- nobody gives a fuck.

It's a witch hunt..

Big difference between using a non-PC term and expressing doubt as to whether or not black people were better off as slaves.

I just gotta ask again those Zander, what kind of dishonest P.O.S. would change somebody's words to make it look/sound like they said something they didn't?

 

[Hossfly]

It seems to me that most people were on Bundy's side until an airhead reporter started the usual ball rolling by asking un-necessary, assinine questions that were inteded to provoke the man into answers that were intended to cause the current situation to escalate into a race issue. The networks do this every time just to keep it alive so they can raise their ratings. I talked to a black preacher yesterday and he said he mostly agreed with Bundy's comments and thought Bundy's statements were taken out of context. Who should I believe? The preacher or the "free" press? IMO the press and media are the perpetrators. Just sayin'.

 

[Statistikhengst]

It seems to me that most people were on Bundy's side until an airhead reporter started the usual ball rolling by asking un-necessary, assinine questions that were inteded to provoke the man into answers that were intended to cause the current situation to escalate into a race issue. The networks do this every time just to keep it alive so they can raise their ratings. I talked to a black preacher yesterday and he said he mostly agreed with Bundy's comments and thought Bundy's statements were taken out of context. Who should I believe? The preacher or the "free" press? IMO the press and media are the perpetrators. Just sayin'.

Excuse me, Hossfly, but that's not true. The reporter asked Bundy absolutely no questions about race at all. Not even one. In fact, the reporter thougth Bundy was done with the and then Bundy turned around, and, ALL ON HIS OWN, decided to launch into a diatribe about "the Negro". There was no prompting. That was his idea. You can see on the tape where Bundy is walking away, turns around, and decides to talk all on his own.

Sorry, the facts do not back up your claim. No one tried to provoke Bundy into saying any of the crazy-assed stuff he has been saying for a couple of weeks now, shit like saying that the Federal Government doesn't even exist, that the local sheriff is the highest intance of the law, and lastly, all the crazy assed shit about black people that is nothing more than a slew of racist generalizations, stuff I am very sure that you and others were would never say.

 

[Spoonman]

I keep wondering, what is really the issue here. his right to graze his cattle on public lands or his personal beliefs? I should say, his personal beliefs as reported by a less than trustworthy media.

His personal beliefs don't mean a hill of beans to me. As far as I'm concerned, he could be a NAZI and it would have nothing to do with the legal aspect of this whole thing.

But his actions do mean something to me. He broke the law and those who are cheering him on are cheering lawlessness. It's really that simple.

That being said, it was Bundy himself who has decided to speak openly about his personal beliefs. No one has made him do it. Now, that's ok, too, he has a right to do that, but then no one should go around bellyaching if the majority of Americans find him, at the end of the day, to be very distasteful because of his views. Then that's his problem, not mine.

I wish I could say that I "feel" for Bundy, but I don't. While his fellow ranchers have been paying those unbelievably modest grazing fees, he has been fucking the system over and I would say that 20 years is more than enough time to have long solved this problem. I wonder how many of those law-abiding ranchers feel, having played the game fair and square, only to see this yahoo soak up all the attention. If anything, the US Government was far too lenient with Bundy and let this slide until it got this ugly, imo.

And in the bigger picture of things, [MENTION=24208]Spoonman[/MENTION], it is entirely possible that on down the road, it could be time to rethink the amount of Government land that is there in a state like Nevada, which used to be unbelievably sparsely populated, but which is growing. As populations grow and resources become more scarce, I can see this as a real issue, but Bundy is the wrong guy to channel this through, really, he is.

It's hard to classify this as government encroachment when that land has been federal property since the founding of the state itself and it's entrance into the Union.

I think the legitimate argument here is does he have the right to graze his cattle there or not. That ranch was founded on the premise that yes he does have the right. as were all ranches that were established in the west originally.

But my point has been two fold. that is no longer what is being discussed. as usual, the discussion has turned into the superficial. the no issue. things that have absolutely no bearing on the legality of what he is doing.

The second point is the lack of consitency on the part of the federal government. the claim they are only up holding the law. but they seem to pick and chose what laws they will uphold. and why so much force against an american citizen? had we dedicated this much fire power to the situation in benghazi, we wouldn't have lost 4 american citizens. and if this man has to be stopped at all costs because he is doing something illegal, why don't we put the same intensity into all things illegal. A perfect example, immigration. if you are here illegally, why aren't you met with the same resistance? instead, we pay for your educations, give you healthcare and other entitlements, hire special language teachers in schools because you can't speak english. We even look to creat a situation where although you have borken the law, we will turn the other cheek and make you legal. So what happened to the need to uphold the law at all costs?

 

[Statistikhengst]

Nah on a personal level your fine. it seems to me though, you continue to push this narrative that conservatives are somehow bigots, and you attempt to stay above the fray while doing it. Conservatives are racist, look at what Bundy says. Don’t trust the Christians look and what Pat Robertson said. The country is going downhill with your liberal friends running it. We are more and more a joke abroad, which is very dangerous and the economy still stinks as we are consistently losing our liberties and this is the kind of crap you push? Multiple threads on Bundy? Your thread is not about ”one man” really is it?

The operative word in your statement is "seems".

And the other bolded, in green: I have never, ever said that. I challenge you very directly to find that statement.

Beside, this very thread shows specifically Conservatives who separated themselves from Bundy based on his racist behavior. So, the very existence of OP challenges your claim. I know a great many Conservatives who have not a racist or bigoted bone in their body, but they are not the topic of this thread. Cliven Bundy is.

And I see no reason to constantly have to make a disclaimer like "well, gee, guys, just want to make sure you all 100% for sure know that I don't think that all Conservatives are racists or bigots". No, Jroc, I am not gonna do that. People should be grown up enough to read what is actually written.

This thread is definitely about one man and those who have separated themselves from him for what he did. That is abundantly clear in the OP.

Hope that information helps.

You Clearly without hesitation told me you thought the Tea Party movement was racist, and it was a blanket statement do you deny it?

"Us Jews" that would include yourself right?

And people wonder why many of us Jews are leery of Christian Right-Wing support.

So, Pat Robertson has a Jew on the show and decides to say this kind of stuff.

Not really sure that this is the stuff of outrage, and that's not my point to begin with, but there is more than just a latent anti-Semitism within old Robertson.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...h-diamonds-instead-of-washing-their-cars.html


Push your narrative...

So, once you all see another rat jumping off the USS-Tea Bundy, just post it here!

Still waiting on words of wisdom from:

McConnell
Boehner
Cruz
Perry
Walker
Bush, Jeb
Christie
Rubio
Huckabee
Ryan
Cantor
Trump
Palin

Cuz we know they all abhor racism, right?!?!?

Oh, I still think that a good dea of the Tea Party membership is racist, I still think that Pat Robertson is an anti-semitic asshole who should never be getting attention from any self-respecting Jew anywhere in the world, and I am quite sure that Cliven Bundy is a racist nut. But that doesn't make all Conservatives racists. Not all Conservatives belong to the Tea Party nor to all Conservatives even listen to the likes of a fool like Pat Robertson. In fact, I've gone out of my way on more than one occasion to point out the difference, but I don't feel like having to write a disclaimer every time and you, frankly, should be grown-up enough to know the difference, anyway.

You can either continue to desperately attack me, for whatever reason, or you can stick to the content of the OP. It's your choice. If you are going to decide to hold your own personal drumhead trial for someone with whom you don't agree just because you are acting pissed off, that's your thing, but I guarantee you, that says a lot more about you than it does about me.

Think about it. Hope you are well and prospering.

-Stat

 

[Hossfly]

It seems to me that most people were on Bundy's side until an airhead reporter started the usual ball rolling by asking un-necessary, assinine questions that were inteded to provoke the man into answers that were intended to cause the current situation to escalate into a race issue. The networks do this every time just to keep it alive so they can raise their ratings. I talked to a black preacher yesterday and he said he mostly agreed with Bundy's comments and thought Bundy's statements were taken out of context. Who should I believe? The preacher or the "free" press? IMO the press and media are the perpetrators. Just sayin'.

Excuse me, Hossfly, but that's not true. The reporter asked Bundy absolutely no questions about race at all. Not even one. In fact, the reporter thougth Bundy was done with the and then Bundy turned around, and, ALL ON HIS OWN, decided to launch into a diatribe about "the Negro". There was no prompting. That was his idea. You can see on the tape where Bundy is walking away, turns around, and decides to talk all on his own.

Sorry, the facts do not back up your claim. No one tried to provoke Bundy into saying any of the crazy-assed stuff he has been saying for a couple of weeks now, shit like saying that the Federal Government doesn't even exist, that the local sheriff is the highest intance of the law, and lastly, all the crazy assed shit about black people that is nothing more than a slew of racist generalizations, stuff I am very sure that you and others were would never say.

Maybe so but turn on the TV and when they have Bundy on the news it has turned into a racial issue and the media is making people forget about cows stomping on turtles and the unknown intentions of the BHO Gestapo.

 

[Camp]

Did I just see "benghazi" used to defend Bundy?

 

[Statistikhengst]

It seems to me that most people were on Bundy's side until an airhead reporter started the usual ball rolling by asking un-necessary, assinine questions that were inteded to provoke the man into answers that were intended to cause the current situation to escalate into a race issue. The networks do this every time just to keep it alive so they can raise their ratings. I talked to a black preacher yesterday and he said he mostly agreed with Bundy's comments and thought Bundy's statements were taken out of context. Who should I believe? The preacher or the "free" press? IMO the press and media are the perpetrators. Just sayin'.

Excuse me, Hossfly, but that's not true. The reporter asked Bundy absolutely no questions about race at all. Not even one. In fact, the reporter thougth Bundy was done with the and then Bundy turned around, and, ALL ON HIS OWN, decided to launch into a diatribe about "the Negro". There was no prompting. That was his idea. You can see on the tape where Bundy is walking away, turns around, and decides to talk all on his own.

Sorry, the facts do not back up your claim. No one tried to provoke Bundy into saying any of the crazy-assed stuff he has been saying for a couple of weeks now, shit like saying that the Federal Government doesn't even exist, that the local sheriff is the highest intance of the law, and lastly, all the crazy assed shit about black people that is nothing more than a slew of racist generalizations, stuff I am very sure that you and others were would never say.

Maybe so but turn on the TV and when they have Bundy on the news it has turned into a racial issue and the media is making people forget about cows stomping on turtles and the unknown intentions of the BHO Gestapo.

Could be, Hossfly, I don't get US American TV where I am, but even that circus would be a direct fallout from something that Bundy did all on his own, without cues, without prodding.

If I understand Conservativism correctly, then one on it's tenets is personal responsibility for one's own actions, right?

(BTW, that principle exists in Liberalism as well, but each side likes to bang the other on the head and say it ain't so).

We can gladly talk about cows and turtles on a cows and turtles thread, I am all for it.

As for "BHO Gestapo", that is bullshit in my book, but I respect your right to express yourself as you wish.

 

[Hossfly]

Excuse me, Hossfly, but that's not true. The reporter asked Bundy absolutely no questions about race at all. Not even one. In fact, the reporter thougth Bundy was done with the and then Bundy turned around, and, ALL ON HIS OWN, decided to launch into a diatribe about "the Negro". There was no prompting. That was his idea. You can see on the tape where Bundy is walking away, turns around, and decides to talk all on his own.

Sorry, the facts do not back up your claim. No one tried to provoke Bundy into saying any of the crazy-assed stuff he has been saying for a couple of weeks now, shit like saying that the Federal Government doesn't even exist, that the local sheriff is the highest intance of the law, and lastly, all the crazy assed shit about black people that is nothing more than a slew of racist generalizations, stuff I am very sure that you and others were would never say.

Maybe so but turn on the TV and when they have Bundy on the news it has turned into a racial issue and the media is making people forget about cows stomping on turtles and the unknown intentions of the BHO Gestapo.

Could be, Hossfly, I don't get US American TV where I am, but even that circus would be a direct fallout from something that Bundy did all on his own, without cues, without prodding.

If I understand Conservativism correctly, then one on it's tenets is personal responsibility for one's own actions, right?

(BTW, that principle exists in Liberalism as well, but each side likes to bang the other on the head and say it ain't so).

We can gladly talk about cows and turtles on a cows and turtles thread, I am all for it.

As for "BHO Gestapo", that is bullshit in my book, but I respect your right to express yourself as you wish.

This is the cows and turtles thread, Stat. That was the initial charge along with grazing fees the GeheimStaatsPolizei of Omumble pushed forth onto the public. And it's not working. This event has nothing to do with nor does it compare with Waco. This event is Big Brother versus The People and is the opening salvo as to just who is in charge here; The People or the (elected by The People) Government. To me the issue is the Four Freedoms expounded by FDR and as long as we citizens have breath, no tinpot, wannabe,Kenyan born dictator is going to impede any of those God given rights.

 

[nodoginnafight]

This is the racist, welfare cowboy thread.

Turtles have nothing to do with this.

If he had paid what he owes, no one except those closest to him would know he's a racist. period.

 

[Moonglow]

Mr. Bundy id so hot right now, even the devil can't touch him..

 

[Spoonman]

This is the racist, welfare cowboy thread.

Turtles have nothing to do with this.

If he had paid what he owes, no one except those closest to him would know he's a racist. period.

if he is a racist, that is his own personal decision. it has absolutely no bearing on the legalitly of him grazing cattle

 

[Hossfly]

This is the racist, welfare cowboy thread.

Turtles have nothing to do with this.

If he had paid what he owes, no one except those closest to him would know he's a racist. period.

Of course turtles are not the issue but that was the initial excuse the Feds made when they were questioned. Personally, I don't know what Bundy's credo is about and I probably wouldn't associate with him. The only importance I see in Bundy is that he is a catylist for whatever is about to happen. I believe all those protesters should go home and let Bundy iron it out with the gubmint. There's enough able people to see he isn't harmed. Then if trouble happens let the Feds start it. This whole thing goes a lot deeper than a herd of cows.

 

[Dot Com]

Maybe so but turn on the TV and when they have Bundy on the news it has turned into a racial issue and the media is making people forget about cows stomping on turtles and the unknown intentions of the BHO Gestapo.

Could be, Hossfly, I don't get US American TV where I am, but even that circus would be a direct fallout from something that Bundy did all on his own, without cues, without prodding.

If I understand Conservativism correctly, then one on it's tenets is personal responsibility for one's own actions, right?

(BTW, that principle exists in Liberalism as well, but each side likes to bang the other on the head and say it ain't so).

We can gladly talk about cows and turtles on a cows and turtles thread, I am all for it.

As for "BHO Gestapo", that is bullshit in my book, but I respect your right to express yourself as you wish.

This is the cows and turtles thread, Stat. That was the initial charge along with grazing fees the GeheimStaatsPolizei of Omumble pushed forth onto the public. And it's not working. This event has nothing to do with nor does it compare with Waco. This event is Big Brother versus The People and is the opening salvo as to just who is in charge here; The People or the (elected by The People) Government. To me the issue is the Four Freedoms expounded by FDR and as long as we citizens have breath, no tinpot, wannabe,Kenyan born dictator is going to impede any of those God given rights.

^ rw hyperbole post of the hour

You should do standup. Seriously.

 

[jillian]

Maybe so but turn on the TV and when they have Bundy on the news it has turned into a racial issue and the media is making people forget about cows stomping on turtles and the unknown intentions of the BHO Gestapo.

if fake news and company didn't try to make bundy a hero, his racist implosion wouldn't have been so public.