The Cliven Bundy Fan-Club DEATHWATCH thread

[PaintMyHouse]

The highest form of patriotism of dissent. Take your pozzed liberal crap elsewhere you tory.

it can be, but not in this case. In this case he is ripping off the taxpayers, and you support him.

So are the other 53% who pay no taxes

-Geaux

Rational thought eludes you. Nearly every citizen pays taxes, but he apparently feels he can pay only what he believes to be just.

 

[Dot Com]

The highest form of patriotism of dissent. Take your pozzed liberal crap elsewhere you tory.

it can be, but not in this case. In this case he is ripping off the taxpayers, and you support him.

So are the other 53% who pay no taxes

-Geaux

 

[Geaux4it]

it can be, but not in this case. In this case he is ripping off the taxpayers, and you support him.

So are the other 53% who pay no taxes

-Geaux

 

[JoeB131]

What is wrong with his words? He's old. he uses old language, expressions, and idioms, My 94 year old mother uses all sorts of politically incorrect words- nobody gives a fuck.

It's a witch hunt..

Does your grandma owe the government a million dollars and incite people to armed violence?

THis is the guy you wingnuts made into a hero. This is what the GOP is turning into today, and why it keeps losing elections.

Old white bigot doesn't want to pay his fair share, for services he's receiving, and after he loses in courts, get the usual nuts to rally to his cause.

Now it's blown up in your faces, and you guys look silly.

You should be happy then...You are also one of the most miserable haters on the board so spare the outrage

Hey, guy, you guys got into bed with this mutt, and now it's blown up in your face!

The thing is, when I guy is arguing that we should shoot government agents because he doesn't want to pay his fees, they should have known he was a nut.

I remember when the GOP used to throw crazy people like you out.

 

[JoeB131]

[

You should be happy then....Since you love Obama and what he stands for so much,maybe you should start a movement to repeal the 22nd amendment. You don't seem to comprehend the fact that this is not about this one man. it's the principle of big, overreaching, too powerful, federal government. Were you outraged by Obama and Eric holders speaking at the race baiting, piece of shit, Al Sharpton's conference? Your selective outrage is duly noted. I say you're a hypocrite. Liberals are a bunch of race baiters. They divide people by race, religion, and gender to win elections. That's all they have really

Sadly, most of the sensible stuff Stat said went right over your head, because you went into default "I hate Obama" mode.

The GOP has a race problem because of it POLICY POSITIONS, not because anyone is "race-baiting".

 

[Erand7899]

it can be, but not in this case. In this case he is ripping off the taxpayers, and you support him.

So are the other 53% who pay no taxes

-Geaux

Rational thought eludes you. Nearly every citizen pays taxes, but he apparently feels he can pay only what he believes to be just.

Since the Bureau of Land Management is not in the business of collecting back taxes, you need to find another fig leaf to justify your support of the government overreach. Those armed agents were not there to collect back taxes. You loons will reach far and wide in an effort to change the context of a losing argument.

 

[Steinlight]

[

You should be happy then....Since you love Obama and what he stands for so much,maybe you should start a movement to repeal the 22nd amendment. You don't seem to comprehend the fact that this is not about this one man. it's the principle of big, overreaching, too powerful, federal government. Were you outraged by Obama and Eric holders speaking at the race baiting, piece of shit, Al Sharpton's conference? Your selective outrage is duly noted. I say you're a hypocrite. Liberals are a bunch of race baiters. They divide people by race, religion, and gender to win elections. That's all they have really

Sadly, most of the sensible stuff Stat said went right over your head, because you went into default "I hate Obama" mode.

The GOP has a race problem because of it POLICY POSITIONS, not because anyone is "race-baiting".

The Democrats have a race problem, they favor policies that favor non-whites over whites, and think that is a virtue.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The Democrats have a race problem, they favor policies that favor non-whites over whites, and think that is a virtue.

That's only because it many cases it is. It's called paying up for past offenses, and it worked since we have a much better, but hardly great, integrated society where race matters much less than it used to.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

So are the other 53% who pay no taxes

-Geaux

Rational thought eludes you. Nearly every citizen pays taxes, but he apparently feels he can pay only what he believes to be just.

Since the Bureau of Land Management is not in the business of collecting back taxes, you need to find another fig leaf to justify your support of the government overreach. Those armed agents were not there to collect back taxes. You loons will reach far and wide in an effort to change the context of a losing argument.

They were collecting livestock, that was grazing illegally on Federal lands. They get to do that you know. It's a concept we call Property Rights. I know you don't understand it but it exists nonetheless.

 

[Steinlight]

The Democrats have a race problem, they favor policies that favor non-whites over whites, and think that is a virtue.

That's only because it many cases it is. It's called paying up for past offenses, and it worked since we have a much better, but hardly great, integrated society where race matters much less than it used to.

I don't share that view. I don't feel I owe a debt to non-whites(does this include debts and set asides for Asians, Latinos, Arabs as well along with blacks?).

The fact is, the guilt trip doesn't work on a good number of people because they aren't naturally self-hating or guilt ridden.

Also, it isn't going to work because none of you on the left can define the point where this supposed debt is repaid. So it is a perpetual debt until Whites are a minority and the new non-white majority has political privileges they do today. I don't think most fair minded independents and conservatives want such a future.

 

[Steinlight]

Douglas Murray articulates my point further.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The Democrats have a race problem, they favor policies that favor non-whites over whites, and think that is a virtue.

That's only because it many cases it is. It's called paying up for past offenses, and it worked since we have a much better, but hardly great, integrated society where race matters much less than it used to.

I don't share that view. I don't feel I owe a debt to non-whites(does this include debts and set asides for Asians, Latinos, Arabs as well along with blacks?).

The fact is, the guilt trip doesn't work on a good number of people because they aren't naturally self-hating or guilt ridden.

Also, it isn't going to work because none of you on the left can define the point where this supposed debt is repaid. So it is a perpetual debt until Whites are a minority and the new non-white majority has political privileges they do today. I don't think most fair minded independents and conservatives want such a future.

The "debt" is paid by giving their descendants a decent chance on as level a playing field as we can reasonably make. After that it's up to them, and doing such a thing has worked very well indeed.

If you feel no guilt that's because you have a child's view of the world. As long as you didn't steal the cookie personally, none were stolen.

And what you want for a future doesn't matter. Your kind is dying off, literally.

 

[Jroc]

I concur with you.

Making an isolated racist statement doesn't make Cliven Bundy a racist. Everyone can occasiionally say something stupid.

But he is definitely part of the Posse Comitatus - an extreme, White Supremacist movement since the 50s, that believes that the US government does not even exist (he has said it in interviews more than once last week) and that the local sheriff has more say than the POTUS, for instance.

Not only that, his age is no excuse. Actually, it is one more strike against him. If you get that old and still don't realize that those kind of racist statements are just plain old disgusting, then something it wrong with you.

But the worst part was the generalizations themselves, which is at the core of the definition of racism to begin with: to malign an entire race and generalize it with negative attributes in order to elevate another race.

Interesting to note that the Cattlemen's union in NV did not go to bat for him. Also interesting to note that he goes on and on about 1,600 other ranchers who are supposedly as pissed off as he is, but they didn't come to his "aid" - it was crazy assed sovereigners from all over the area outside of NV who showed up for the circus.

The guy is a fucking deadbeat who is abusing the system, one that was in place BEFORE he was born.

And the statements he made were unbelievably racist. And then he doubled down on them.

The Right will regret having tried to make this yahoo their newest cause celebre, mark my words.

I can see the attack ads now.

You should be happy then....Since you love Obama and what he stands for so much,maybe you should start a movement to repeal the 22nd amendment. You don't seem to comprehend the fact that this is not about this one man. it's the principle of big, overreaching, too powerful, federal government. Were you outraged by Obama and Eric holders speaking at the race baiting, piece of shit, Al Sharpton's conference? Your selective outrage is duly noted. I say you're a hypocrite. Liberals are a bunch of race baiters. They divide people by race, religion, and gender to win elections. That's all they have really

Now wait a minute Jroc, maybe there is a way to rescue the train-wreck of what you just wrote.

First of all, I don't "love" Obama. I have never "loved" any President.

Second of all, why repeal the 22nd?

Third, this thread IS about one man: Cliven Bundy. I should know, I started the thread. If you want to talk about the "bigger picture", then fine, start a thread and let's talk about the bigger picture. But I guarantee you, in not all too long from now, the Right is going to want to forget Cliven Bundy as quickly as it can. There are far better examples of people being upset about "government overreach" than this.

Fourth: again, you attack ME as a person, but I am not going to do that to you. At some point in time, you need to control your anger so that you can actually debate ideas instead of impugning members of USMB.

Nah on a personal level your fine. it seems to me though, you continue to push this narrative that conservatives are somehow bigots, and you attempt to stay above the fray while doing it. Conservatives are racist, look at what Bundy says. Don’t trust the Christians look and what Pat Robertson said. The country is going downhill with your liberal friends running it. We are more and more a joke abroad, which is very dangerous and the economy still stinks as we are consistently losing our liberties and this is the kind of crap you push? Multiple threads on Bundy? Your thread is not about ”one man” really is it?

 

[JoeB131]

[

Nah on a personal level your fine. it seems to me though, you continue to push this narrative that conservatives are somehow bigots, and you attempt to stay above the fray while doing it. Conservatives are racist, look at what Bundy says. Don’t trust the Christians look and what Pat Robertson said. The country is going downhill with your liberal friends running it. We are more and more a joke abroad, which is very dangerous and the economy still stinks as we are consistently losing our liberties and this is the kind of crap you push? Multiple threads on Bundy? Your thread is not about ”one man” really is it?

No, guy, the real problem is that since the Black dude got elected, the GOP has gone batshit nuts.

George W. Bush's position on BUndy is exactly the same as Obama's. The guy needs to pay his grazing fees if he lets his cattle wander onto federal land.

The GOP has become about getting working class conservatives and Christians to vote against their own economic interests by pushing their buttons on non-issues- Abortions, Gays, Guns, and so on.

And honestly, you keep falling for it.

 

[Statistikhengst]

You should be happy then....Since you love Obama and what he stands for so much,maybe you should start a movement to repeal the 22nd amendment. You don't seem to comprehend the fact that this is not about this one man. it's the principle of big, overreaching, too powerful, federal government. Were you outraged by Obama and Eric holders speaking at the race baiting, piece of shit, Al Sharpton's conference? Your selective outrage is duly noted. I say you're a hypocrite. Liberals are a bunch of race baiters. They divide people by race, religion, and gender to win elections. That's all they have really

Now wait a minute Jroc, maybe there is a way to rescue the train-wreck of what you just wrote.

First of all, I don't "love" Obama. I have never "loved" any President.

Second of all, why repeal the 22nd?

Third, this thread IS about one man: Cliven Bundy. I should know, I started the thread. If you want to talk about the "bigger picture", then fine, start a thread and let's talk about the bigger picture. But I guarantee you, in not all too long from now, the Right is going to want to forget Cliven Bundy as quickly as it can. There are far better examples of people being upset about "government overreach" than this.

Fourth: again, you attack ME as a person, but I am not going to do that to you. At some point in time, you need to control your anger so that you can actually debate ideas instead of impugning members of USMB.

Nah on a personal level your fine. it seems to me though, you continue to push this narrative that conservatives are somehow bigots, and you attempt to stay above the fray while doing it. Conservatives are racist, look at what Bundy says. Don’t trust the Christians look and what Pat Robertson said. The country is going downhill with your liberal friends running it. We are more and more a joke abroad, which is very dangerous and the economy still stinks as we are consistently losing our liberties and this is the kind of crap you push? Multiple threads on Bundy? Your thread is not about ”one man” really is it?

The operative word in your statement is "seems".

And the other bolded, in green: I have never, ever said that. I challenge you very directly to find that statement.

Beside, this very thread shows specifically Conservatives who separated themselves from Bundy based on his racist behavior. So, the very existence of OP challenges your claim. I know a great many Conservatives who have not a racist or bigoted bone in their body, but they are not the topic of this thread. Cliven Bundy is.

And I see no reason to constantly have to make a disclaimer like "well, gee, guys, just want to make sure you all 100% for sure know that I don't think that all Conservatives are racists or bigots". No, Jroc, I am not gonna do that. People should be grown up enough to read what is actually written.

This thread is definitely about one man and those who have separated themselves from him for what he did. That is abundantly clear in the OP.

Hope that information helps.

 

[Sallow]

The Democrats have a race problem, they favor policies that favor non-whites over whites, and think that is a virtue.

That's only because it many cases it is. It's called paying up for past offenses, and it worked since we have a much better, but hardly great, integrated society where race matters much less than it used to.

I don't share that view. I don't feel I owe a debt to non-whites(does this include debts and set asides for Asians, Latinos, Arabs as well along with blacks?).

The fact is, the guilt trip doesn't work on a good number of people because they aren't naturally self-hating or guilt ridden.

Also, it isn't going to work because none of you on the left can define the point where this supposed debt is repaid. So it is a perpetual debt until Whites are a minority and the new non-white majority has political privileges they do today. I don't think most fair minded independents and conservatives want such a future.

You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Statistikhengst]

That's only because it many cases it is. It's called paying up for past offenses, and it worked since we have a much better, but hardly great, integrated society where race matters much less than it used to.

I don't share that view. I don't feel I owe a debt to non-whites(does this include debts and set asides for Asians, Latinos, Arabs as well along with blacks?).

The fact is, the guilt trip doesn't work on a good number of people because they aren't naturally self-hating or guilt ridden.

Also, it isn't going to work because none of you on the left can define the point where this supposed debt is repaid. So it is a perpetual debt until Whites are a minority and the new non-white majority has political privileges they do today. I don't think most fair minded independents and conservatives want such a future.

You can't make this stuff up.

No, you can't. But then again, racism is batshit crazy to begin with.

 

[Spoonman]

I keep wondering, what is really the issue here. his right to graze his cattle on public lands or his personal beliefs? I should say, his personal beliefs as reported by a less than trustworthy media.

 

[Statistikhengst]

I keep wondering, what is really the issue here. his right to graze his cattle on public lands or his personal beliefs? I should say, his personal beliefs as reported by a less than trustworthy media.

His personal beliefs don't mean a hill of beans to me. As far as I'm concerned, he could be a NAZI and it would have nothing to do with the legal aspect of this whole thing.

But his actions do mean something to me. He broke the law and those who are cheering him on are cheering lawlessness. It's really that simple.

That being said, it was Bundy himself who has decided to speak openly about his personal beliefs. No one has made him do it. Now, that's ok, too, he has a right to do that, but then no one should go around bellyaching if the majority of Americans find him, at the end of the day, to be very distasteful because of his views. Then that's his problem, not mine.

I wish I could say that I "feel" for Bundy, but I don't. While his fellow ranchers have been paying those unbelievably modest grazing fees, he has been fucking the system over and I would say that 20 years is more than enough time to have long solved this problem. I wonder how many of those law-abiding ranchers feel, having played the game fair and square, only to see this yahoo soak up all the attention. If anything, the US Government was far too lenient with Bundy and let this slide until it got this ugly, imo.

And in the bigger picture of things, [MENTION=24208]Spoonman[/MENTION], it is entirely possible that on down the road, it could be time to rethink the amount of Government land that is there in a state like Nevada, which used to be unbelievably sparsely populated, but which is growing. As populations grow and resources become more scarce, I can see this as a real issue, but Bundy is the wrong guy to channel this through, really, he is.

It's hard to classify this as government encroachment when that land has been federal property since the founding of the state itself and it's entrance into the Union.

 

[Dot Com]

I keep wondering, what is really the issue here. his right to graze his cattle on public lands or his personal beliefs? I should say, his personal beliefs as reported by a less than trustworthy media.

thats not the issue because the ACLU has represented nazis who wanted to parade through towns.

FAQs | ACLU of Ohio

Why does the ACLU defend the rights of groups such as the Nazis or the Ku Klux Klan?
If the government can take away rights from one person, it can take rights away from anyone. For example, the principle by which the Ku Klux Klan has the right to march is the same one that allows civil rights activists to march against racism. Our Bill of Rights and our laws should apply equally to all those living in the United States.

The ACLU’s mission is to defend the Bill of Rights – even if that means defending an organization or individual whose message we despise. Read “Why the ACLU Defends Free Speech for Unpopular Groups.” go »