The coming police state

[Valerie]

The study does not envision a new policy of mass deportation, with ICE agents rounding up immigrants in vans or going door-to-door to find them. Rather, researchers used the government's own statement that it currently has the capacity to deport up to 400,000 immigrants annually (330,651 were removed in 2013) and asked what would happen if it actually did that, every year until the 11 million are gone. They also estimate that after the government announces a new policy of full enforcement, about 20 percent of the 11 million would leave voluntarily, leaving just about nine million that would need to be forcibly removed. "It still would be, I think, a shocking sight to the American people, to have the detentions, the deportations, the detention centers, the need for the administrative end of this," said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, the group's president. "If you were to do it faster and have vans sweeping in, I think that would have the untenable feel of the police state to the American people. We didn’t look at that."

 

[OldLady]

No need for that. Just cut off their welfare, food stamps, and free healthcare and they'll leave voluntarily.

It's funny how progressives always leave out the easy way to get rid of illegals.
It's like they're dishonest or something .......

You DO realize that the majority of the illegals aren't receiving welfare, food stamps and free healthcare?

 

[Valerie]

US Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump wants to deport every illegal immigrant from the United States. The other Republican candidates say it can't be done - one called it a "silly argument".

And the majority of US Republican voters disagree with Mr Trump: according to a 2015 survey by the Pew Research Center, 56% believe undocumented immigrants should be allowed to stay if they meet certain criteria.

So who's right? And what would happen if US authorities attempted to carry out Mr Trump's audacious plan?

There are approximately 11.3 million undocumented immigrants in the US. Rounding them up and deporting them would present a huge logistical and financial challenge to America's military, law enforcement, and border control agencies.


...


What about... society?

This massive deportation programme would have to be done with the support - or at least tacit consent - of the American people, many of whom will have lived or worked with, or befriended and loved undocumented immigrants for years.

According to a 2013 study by Pew, illegal immigrant adults had been in the country for a median of 13 years at the time the study was carried out.

Would ordinary Americans turn a blind eye while neighbours, colleagues and friends were rounded up and taken away? Or would it precipitate mass civil unrest? In 2010, Arizona introduced a law that allowed police to check the legal status of anyone they suspected of being an illegal immigrant, and 100,000 people hit the streets to protest.

And then there is the thorny issue of how this would all look. In an age when nearly everyone has a video camera in their pocket, could the military really round people up - young and old, entire families - and force them on to buses and trains? Would the soldiers have machine guns and dogs? Could the average American stomach those images, with all their attendant historical echoes?

Are there any other options?

Donald Trump wants to deport every single illegal immigrant - could he? - BBC News

 

[paulitician]

We're already a Police State.

 

[kaz]

The donald vows to deport 11 million people.

That is a lot of po-lice!

He's planning to do it in one day?

 

[Valerie]

“This was not a subject that was on anybody’s mind until I brought it up at my announcement.”

— Donald Trump, on immigration, Republican debate, August 6







Not on anyone’s mind? For years, immigration has been the subject of near-constant, often bitter argument within the GOP. But it is true that Trump has brought the debate to a new place — first, with his announcement speech, about whether Mexican migrants are really rapists, and now with the somewhat more nuanced Trump plan.

Much of it — visa tracking, E-Verify, withholding funds from sanctuary cities — predates Trump. Even building the Great Wall is not particularly new. (I, for one, have been advocating that in this space since 2006.) Dominating the discussion, however, are his two policy innovations: (a) abolition of birthright citizenship and (b) mass deportation.

Birthright citizenship.

If you are born in the United States, you are an American citizen. So says the 14th Amendment. Barring some esoteric and radically new jurisprudence, abolition would require amending the Constitution. Which would take years and great political effort. And make the GOP anathema to Hispanic Americans for a generation.

And for what? Birthright citizenship is a symptom, not a cause. If you regain control of the border, the number of birthright babies fades to insignificance. The time and energy it would take to amend the Constitution are far more usefully deployed securing the border.


Moreover, the real issue is not the birthright babies themselves, but the chain migration that follows. It turns one baby into an imported village.

Chain migration, however, is not a constitutional right. It’s a result of statutes and regulations. These can be readily changed. That should be the focus, not a quixotic constitutional battle.



Mass deportation.

Last Sunday, Trump told NBC’s Chuck Todd that all illegal immigrants must leave the country. Although once they’ve been kicked out, we will let “the good ones” back in.

On its own terms, this is crackpot. Wouldn’t you save a lot just on Mayflower moving costs if you chose the “good ones” first — before sending SWAT teams to turf families out of their homes, loading them on buses, and dumping them on the other side of the Rio Grande?



RELATED: Could a President Trump Really Impound All Immigrant Payments to Mexico?

Less frivolously, it is estimated by the conservative American Action Forum that mass deportation would take about 20 years and cost about $500 billion for all the police, judges, lawyers, and enforcement agents — and bus drivers! — needed to expel 11 million people.

This would all be merely ridiculous if it weren’t morally obscene. Forcibly evict 11 million people from their homes? It can’t happen. It shouldn’t happen. And, of course, it won’t ever happen.

Donald Trump’s Fantasy of Mass Deportation Is Political Poison for the GOP, by Charles Krauthammer, National Review

 

[kaz]

No need for that. Just cut off their welfare, food stamps, and free healthcare and they'll leave voluntarily.

It's funny how progressives always leave out the easy way to get rid of illegals.
It's like they're dishonest or something .......

You DO realize that the majority of the illegals aren't receiving welfare, food stamps and free healthcare?

It's amazing how liberals are always telling libertarians we have to pay for all the government we get and yet illegals don't use any government at all ...

 

[Timmy]

No need for that. Just cut off their welfare, food stamps, and free healthcare and they'll leave voluntarily.

Illegals can't qualify for welfare.

 

[Valerie]

The U.S. Social Security Administration estimated that in 2013 undocumented immigrants—and their employers—paid $13 billion in payroll taxes alone for benefits they will never get. They can receive schooling and emergency medical care, but not welfare or food stamps.


Ten Myths About Immigration | Teaching Tolerance - Diversity, Equity and Justice

 

[Londoner]

If you think we have a big government now, just wait until you see the size of Trump's proposed Federal Deportation Agency. Do you know what it takes to find, detain and move 11 million people, many of whom are off the official data grid?

And what about the unintended consequences of making government bigger and more invasive?

Do Republicans understand the physical and administrative infrastructure that will be added to Washington?

What if a Liberal, gun hating administration follows Trump, and what if they use Washington's newly created surveillance and deportation powers to go door-to-door for the purpose of rounding up gun owners?

There is a reason why Libertarians are skeptical of giving Washington the kind of massive power Trump is proposing. Libertarians worry that power can be abused, and that the only thing worse than illegal immigrants - who have always been with us - is a more powerful federal government.

 

[Londoner]

We know Liberals trust big brother, but why do Republicans always trust Washington to do big things - especially by building up federal policing and military? Reagan's War on Drugs devolved into an expensive, incompetent farce - one that vastly expanded the federal budget and greatly increased the concentrated power of federal law enforcement ... but ... It didn't solve the problem.

Same with Bush's War on Terrorism, which shredded the Constitution with the Patriot Act and turned the Middle East into a dangerous, unstable mess (according to Trump).

When are you fucking morons going to stop giving Washington the power to do big things?

You're building an invasive, unaffordable police state in order to fight terrorism, drugs, gays and illegal immigration - and the only thing you have to show for it is a more powerful and more expensive government. (It's not like Washington ever solves the problems that you are entrusting it to solve. Washington only makes problems worse).

Silly fucking morons - don't you get it? Creating a more powerful government is the problem.

 

[S.J.]

No need for that. Just cut off their welfare, food stamps, and free healthcare and they'll leave voluntarily.

Illegals can't qualify for welfare.

You have no idea what you're talking about. I see and deal with them every day and every damn one of them gets EBT, healthcare, and a monthly check.

 

[kaz]

No need for that. Just cut off their welfare, food stamps, and free healthcare and they'll leave voluntarily.

Illegals can't qualify for welfare.

Of course they do,

""Three-fourths of immigrant households using welfare are headed by legal immigrants"

Report: America attracting poor, uneducated immigrants

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The U.S. Social Security Administration estimated that in 2013 undocumented immigrants—and their employers—paid $13 billion in payroll taxes alone for benefits they will never get. They can receive schooling and emergency medical care, but not welfare or food stamps.

SPLC?
Ten Myths About Immigration | Teaching Tolerance - Diversity, Equity and Justice

 

[boilermaker55]

It's funny how the teabaggers want all this work done by government officials and yet, they don't want to have their taxes raised to pay for anything go be done.
How utterly dishonest and naive of them.

No need for that. Just cut off their welfare, food stamps, and free healthcare and they'll leave voluntarily.

It's funny how progressives always leave out the easy way to get rid of illegals.
It's like they're dishonest or something .......

 

[boilermaker55]

Well, sperm burper, it seems you cannot carry on a deceit dialogue.
So, if you cannot explain your position it might be better to not post. It shows your stupid fucking ignorance.

No! The question was asked of you with your comment.

Who do you blame for that?

It's funny, on one note the immigrants are accused of taking all the lower paying jobs and now they are on welfare.

If they were getting paid under the table....

I didn't. I was calling out your reasoning..

IDK dumbfuck. Im just saying... you qualify for welfare based on income. If you are paid under the table then...

 

[paulitician]

The ugly truth is, we've been a Police State for awhile. The U.S. imprisons more of its Citizens than any other nation on earth. And yes, that includes nations like China, North Korea, and Iran. So there is no 'coming' Police State. It's here.

 

[boilermaker55]

Do I think they act as one?

It's funny, on one note the immigrants are accused of taking all the lower paying jobs and now they are on welfare.

No need for that. Just cut off their welfare, food stamps, and free healthcare and they'll leave voluntarily.

How about both? Or do you think all illegals act as one and are all alike? Isn't that racist?

 

[TNHarley]

3

Well, sperm burper, it seems you cannot carry on a deceit dialogue.
So, if you cannot explain your position it might be better to not post. It shows your stupid fucking ignorance.

No! The question was asked of you with your comment.

Who do you blame for that?

If they were getting paid under the table....

I didn't. I was calling out your reasoning..

IDK dumbfuck. Im just saying... you qualify for welfare based on income. If you are paid under the table then...

WTF is a deceit dialogue? Irony perhaps?
How stupid are you? If you are paid under the table the govt sees it as you not earning anything. THINK

 

[boilermaker55]

And that wasn't the question you idiot moron.
Once again, your stupidity shines so well.

3

Well, sperm burper, it seems you cannot carry on a deceit dialogue.
So, if you cannot explain your position it might be better to not post. It shows your stupid fucking ignorance.

No! The question was asked of you with your comment.

Who do you blame for that?

I didn't. I was calling out your reasoning..

IDK dumbfuck. Im just saying... you qualify for welfare based on income. If you are paid under the table then...

WTF is a deceit dialogue? Irony perhaps?
How stupid are you? If you are paid under the table the govt sees it as you not earning anything. THINK