The creationists are BACK

[AllieBaba]

"
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
"

You see he was adamant about protecting the right of people to practice their religion without interference from govt entities.

Novel, that.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Because he believed, rightly, that no government has the right to tell people what faith to follow. The only way to protect the right of people to publicly adhere to their religion is to prevent the government from dictating any one religion (or absence of religion) to the people.

This is easy stuff. The Baptists and Jefferson discussed this at some length, perhaps you should look into it. And the Baptists were the ones who really pulled for separating church and state completely.

But what if someone decideds they want to be an atheist? How about a Buddhist? Do they still have to follow Christian ideals, or are they free to practice their religion as they please, because remember.......you're trying to say that this is a Christian nation. Or better yet, what if someone wants to be a Druid or a Wiccan (neither of which worships the Devil)?

Interestingly enough, I've never had a Buddhist monk come up to me and ask "Have you heard the good news about Buddha today"? The only ones that bug me like that are Christians, because generally, they don't have a clue. Matter of fact, last week, some Baptist dude saw me walking down the street from the park teaching telepathy, and he stopped in the middle of the street, and asked what that sign on my chair said. I told him it says telepathy lessons. He then told me that I was evil because I was teaching magic and devil worship. I told him no, and then proceeded to show him how it wasn't. Interestingly enough, there is a section in the Tanach that talks about the soul, and 2 of it's properties are telepathy and precognition. He then tried to debate me with his views, and I showed him where they were all wrong (sometimes using his own beliefs against him). He then told me that I had "too much going on" for him to be able to debate me, because I knew more about things than he did.

And.......guess what.........I've never been prostelitized to by a Muslim either.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Not all of the Founding Fathers were Christians.

The ol' canard.

So? Virtually all of the Founders to a man held to the Lockean tradition of classical liberalism which is predicated on the assertion that God, not the State, is the Source and Guarantor of fundamental human liberties. This notion of natural law was extrapolated by Locke from the socio-political implications of Judeo-Christianity's ethical system of thought, the same ethical system of thought of both the Christian and the Deist of the time.

In short, what mattered was not religion, but political philosophy.

 

[logical4u]

I respect people's belief in their religion....however...this creationary theory has been proven to be hogwash numerous times by sound scientific data. Anyone advocating that their children be taught this in a public school should be found guilty as UNFIT parents.

Science proved there was no substances before there was light?
Science proved the atmosphere came before light and substances?
Science proved the earth was not seperated from the sea?
Science proved that plant life came after animal life?
Science proved the moon was here before the earth was here?
Science proved that mammals came before sea creatures and birds?
Science proved that animals have dominion over men?
Science has proved that there was never an Adam and Eve?

 

[Jack Fate]

How are your constitutional rights being infringed upon?

Ever hear of kids being sent home from school for wearing a T-shirt that says something like "Jesus loves you" or some other innocent thing? No mention of Jesus at graduation ceremonies or football games, etc.

There is no logical reason for this crap.

I've actually never heard of a kid being sent home for wearing a religious shirt. I've heard of a kid being sent home for wearing a "Bong Hits For Jesus" shirt. I assume you have no problem with that. At any rate, perhaps you can provide a link. Graduation ceremonies at public schools are public events and it's not appropriate to subject the whole crowd to worship. That doesn't prevent individuals from worshiping as they please.

At any rate school policies might be more draconian then necessary, but that doesn't equate to the law of the land.

Again, how have your individual right's been infringed upon? When has the long arm of the law disrupted your right to worship?

"Graduation ceremonies at public schools are public events and it's not appropriate to subject the whole crowd to worship".

Since when is your personal opinion or anyone's personal opinion of what is correct to say at public events up to you or anyone to to determine in the USA?

People like you would have stopped George Washington from grabbing a bible to take his oath of office.

 

[Jack Fate]

Because he believed, rightly, that no government has the right to tell people what faith to follow. The only way to protect the right of people to publicly adhere to their religion is to prevent the government from dictating any one religion (or absence of religion) to the people.

This is easy stuff. The Baptists and Jefferson discussed this at some length, perhaps you should look into it. And the Baptists were the ones who really pulled for separating church and state completely.

But what if someone decideds they want to be an atheist? How about a Buddhist? Do they still have to follow Christian ideals, or are they free to practice their religion as they please, because remember.......you're trying to say that this is a Christian nation. Or better yet, what if someone wants to be a Druid or a Wiccan (neither of which worships the Devil)?

Interestingly enough, I've never had a Buddhist monk come up to me and ask "Have you heard the good news about Buddha today"? The only ones that bug me like that are Christians, because generally, they don't have a clue. Matter of fact, last week, some Baptist dude saw me walking down the street from the park teaching telepathy, and he stopped in the middle of the street, and asked what that sign on my chair said. I told him it says telepathy lessons. He then told me that I was evil because I was teaching magic and devil worship. I told him no, and then proceeded to show him how it wasn't. Interestingly enough, there is a section in the Tanach that talks about the soul, and 2 of it's properties are telepathy and precognition. He then tried to debate me with his views, and I showed him where they were all wrong (sometimes using his own beliefs against him). He then told me that I had "too much going on" for him to be able to debate me, because I knew more about things than he did.

And.......guess what.........I've never been prostelitized to by a Muslim either.

I've been proselitized by Buddhists, Mormons, one Muslim, Jehova Witnesses, and I think the weirdest nut was the idiot from Scientology.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I respect people's belief in their religion....however...this creationary theory has been proven to be hogwash numerous times by sound scientific data. Anyone advocating that their children be taught this in a public school should be found guilty as UNFIT parents.

Science proved there was no substances before there was light?
Science proved the atmosphere came before light and substances?
Science proved the earth was not seperated from the sea?
Science proved that plant life came after animal life?
Science proved the moon was here before the earth was here?
Science proved that mammals came before sea creatures and birds?
Science proved that animals have dominion over men?
Science has proved that there was never an Adam and Eve?

1. Not yet.
2. Atmosphere is a result of light and substances (after all, atmosphere is a substance that almost behaves like a liquid).
3. The earth separated from the sea due to continental shift. Prior to that? There was just one continent called Pangea.
4. Yes, actually, there are fossils of plants that are older than those of animals.
5. No, science didn't prove that the moon was here first. It's a result of a collision with the earth and a very large asteroid. That collision yielded the moon.
6. Actually, yes, reptiles and fish were here before mammals.
7. No, science hasn't proven that man has dominion over the earth, we just think we do because we control so much of it.
8. Science actually HAS proven that there was a genetic Adam and Eve. Watch Nat Geo's "Human Family Tree" sometime.

 

[logical4u]

I respect people's belief in their religion....however...this creationary theory has been proven to be hogwash numerous times by sound scientific data. Anyone advocating that their children be taught this in a public school should be found guilty as UNFIT parents.

Science proved there was no substances before there was light?
Science proved the atmosphere came before light and substances?
Science proved the earth was not seperated from the sea?
Science proved that plant life came after animal life?
Science proved the moon was here before the earth was here?
Science proved that mammals came before sea creatures and birds?
Science proved that animals have dominion over men?
Science has proved that there was never an Adam and Eve?

1. Not yet.
2. Atmosphere is a result of light and substances (after all, atmosphere is a substance that almost behaves like a liquid).
3. The earth separated from the sea due to continental shift. Prior to that? There was just one continent called Pangea.
4. Yes, actually, there are fossils of plants that are older than those of animals.
5. No, science didn't prove that the moon was here first. It's a result of a collision with the earth and a very large asteroid. That collision yielded the moon.
6. Actually, yes, reptiles and fish were here before mammals.
7. No, science hasn't proven that man has dominion over the earth, we just think we do because we control so much of it.
8. Science actually HAS proven that there was a genetic Adam and Eve. Watch Nat Geo's "Human Family Tree" sometime.

My point was that "science" has not proved anything out of the order of "creation" as stated in Genesis.
I believe your points 3, 4, 5, 6 are supporting my questions. Science did not prove that animals came before plants. It did not prove earth and sea did not seperate. It did not prove the moon was before the earth. It did not prove that mammals were before fish or birds. Science agrees with the order of creation in the Bible.
7 was a dodge; the question was: "Science proved that animals have dominion over men?"
8 again, supports the creation as stated in Genesis.
Thanks for playing.

 

[geauxtohell]

Ever hear of kids being sent home from school for wearing a T-shirt that says something like "Jesus loves you" or some other innocent thing? No mention of Jesus at graduation ceremonies or football games, etc.

There is no logical reason for this crap.

I've actually never heard of a kid being sent home for wearing a religious shirt. I've heard of a kid being sent home for wearing a "Bong Hits For Jesus" shirt. I assume you have no problem with that. At any rate, perhaps you can provide a link. Graduation ceremonies at public schools are public events and it's not appropriate to subject the whole crowd to worship. That doesn't prevent individuals from worshiping as they please.

At any rate school policies might be more draconian then necessary, but that doesn't equate to the law of the land.

Again, how have your individual right's been infringed upon? When has the long arm of the law disrupted your right to worship?

"Graduation ceremonies at public schools are public events and it's not appropriate to subject the whole crowd to worship".

Since when is your personal opinion or anyone's personal opinion of what is correct to say at public events up to you or anyone to to determine in the USA?

People like you would have stopped George Washington from grabbing a bible to take his oath of office.

It's not my personal opinion. It's the opinion of the high court of the land. I suppose the difference between us is that I respect that. Everything else in your thread is useless hyperbole.

Now, how have your religious freedoms been deprived.

 

[Jack Fate]

I've actually never heard of a kid being sent home for wearing a religious shirt. I've heard of a kid being sent home for wearing a "Bong Hits For Jesus" shirt. I assume you have no problem with that. At any rate, perhaps you can provide a link. Graduation ceremonies at public schools are public events and it's not appropriate to subject the whole crowd to worship. That doesn't prevent individuals from worshiping as they please.

At any rate school policies might be more draconian then necessary, but that doesn't equate to the law of the land.

Again, how have your individual right's been infringed upon? When has the long arm of the law disrupted your right to worship?

"Graduation ceremonies at public schools are public events and it's not appropriate to subject the whole crowd to worship".

Since when is your personal opinion or anyone's personal opinion of what is correct to say at public events up to you or anyone to to determine in the USA?

People like you would have stopped George Washington from grabbing a bible to take his oath of office.

It's not my personal opinion. It's the opinion of the high court of the land. I suppose the difference between us is that I respect that. Everything else in your thread is useless hyperbole.

Now, how have your religious freedoms been deprived.

Laws can be changed. Nothing is written in stone as far as law.

You can shove your "difference between us is that I respect that" right up your scrawny lying liberal ass. I really don't care what you think of my post. it's the truth and people like you would have tried to stop George Washington from using a bible to take his oath. People like you are the ones Washington and the other founding fathers fought against. Cowardly pissant.

 

[newpolitics]

We need to start standing up and fighting for our rights to our religion, they can only take it away from us if we let them. We are a Christian nation founded on Judeo Christian beliefs, regardless of what our dumbass in chief says, he is wrong "all the time apparently".
As Christians, we need to start praying in public, start doing these things that they do not want us to do, then file civil rights violations on them when they try to force us to stop. Let these law suits hit the supreme court level and we will win, and maybe they will back off.

Why are you so insecure about your beliefs? Practice them in your own time, with other Christians, and keep it out of anyone elses business. This need for Christians to leach off of others privacy and spirituality is purely annoying and obnoxious. What's worse is that they do it with such self-rigtheous arrogance. You have NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT. You are not oppressed as you sound. There are Churches in every neighborhood in America. Hell, even in Airports and truck stops, so, get over it. It is so ridiculous the crying I hear from the religious about this kind of thing. If religion is supposed to be between you and God, then it shouldn't even matter where a building stands or doesn't stand. Teach your children about religion. A parents influence is always a thousand times stronger than a schools influence, if you are a good parent and your child trusts you.

Talk about "self-righteous".......

You're talking about constitutional rights. Remember that.

I have remembered that. Obviously you have completely forgotten it, and like the bible, have interpreted the constitution to mean whatever you want it to mean to suit your needs at any given time.

 

[newpolitics]

I respect people's belief in their religion....however...this creationary theory has been proven to be hogwash numerous times by sound scientific data. Anyone advocating that their children be taught this in a public school should be found guilty as UNFIT parents.

Science proved there was no substances before there was light?
Science proved the atmosphere came before light and substances?
Science proved the earth was not seperated from the sea?
Science proved that plant life came after animal life?
Science proved the moon was here before the earth was here?
Science proved that mammals came before sea creatures and birds?
Science proved that animals have dominion over men?
Science has proved that there was never an Adam and Eve?

I don't see how any of these questions matter at all. That these are mentioned in the bible, if at all (specific passages?), isn't saying much. Of course there was darkness before light. Go into a dark room, and turn on a light. Voila! LIght and substnaves before atmosphere? What does that even mean? I don't even understand the third questions. It is common sense, even to ancestors, that built such things as the Great Pyramids, that looking at nature, it is clear that plantlife is the foundation of the entire animal kingdom. I assure you, they were attuned to this. Native Americans were very attuned to this nature. Attuned to the Earth. This is not a big deal. I don't even know where you are getting the sixth question. Obviously men have dominion over animals if we are the ones writing the books, otherwise we would be hiding in caves and wouldn't have time to write books. How does that help the case of creation? How has science proved there was an Adam and Eve. ANY links to any of these claims would be much appreciated. I'm just curious as to where you are getting your info. If you are going to say such things and be taken serious, be prepared to back it up.

there is no genetic Adam and Eve as you say either. Prove it. Provide a link.

 

[newpolitics]

You want the truth? Jesus probably never existed. As far as comparative religion goes, he was nothing unique at all. Why he was chosen as being our savior is completely arbitrary. As far as I am concerned, you all are praying to a sun god. A pagan deity. (the segment starts at about 8 minutes in)



You can fact check all of this too. It's extremely interesting. The alternate narrative becomes clearly obvious. Jesus is and was a myth. Which would explain a lot, namely, why the mythical character is so awesome, and his followers are such complete hypocrits who do everything he told them not to do, feel good about it, and then tell everyone how they must follow him too or else go to hell. God would never be stupid enough to place a figure on this Earth that would cause people to behave in such an idiotic manner, and cause such division. If he is all knowing, then his judgement is terrible.

 

[Seawytch]

Cross displays are being forbidden and ordered to be taken down, Christmas displays in public.
Christmas Trees in schools.
The very word of Christmas in stores and malls.

On public property, not in public. Nothing like a little hyperbole thought right?

And what law states that a Christmas display on public property is forbidden by the U.S. Constitution?

The Supreme Court. ALLEGHENY COUNTY v. GREATER PITTSBURGH ACLU, 492 U.S. 573 (1989) and PLEASANT GROVE CITY v. SUMMUM (No. 07-665) (2008)

 

[geauxtohell]

"Graduation ceremonies at public schools are public events and it's not appropriate to subject the whole crowd to worship".

Since when is your personal opinion or anyone's personal opinion of what is correct to say at public events up to you or anyone to to determine in the USA?

People like you would have stopped George Washington from grabbing a bible to take his oath of office.

It's not my personal opinion. It's the opinion of the high court of the land. I suppose the difference between us is that I respect that. Everything else in your thread is useless hyperbole.

Now, how have your religious freedoms been deprived.

Laws can be changed. Nothing is written in stone as far as law.

You can shove your "difference between us is that I respect that" right up your scrawny lying liberal ass. I really don't care what you think of my post. it's the truth and people like you would have tried to stop George Washington from using a bible to take his oath. People like you are the ones Washington and the other founding fathers fought against. Cowardly pissant.

Then change the laws.

Until then, how have your rights to practice your religion been impeded?

 

[peach174]

For someone who wants the truth, newpolitics video is filled with false statements..
Jesus was not born on Dec. 25th. The closest we can get, is he was born in the Spring or Fall
Horus was not born of a virgin, his mother was Isis and his father was Osiris.
Each of those that were mentioned like Attis,Krishna Dionysus and Mithra had mothers and fathers. They were not born of virgins.
The Fish sign comes from Jesus disciples who were fishermen. He said come with me and I will make you fisher of men. The sign has nothing to do with the zodiac sign.
It's very interesting that the video tries to acquaint paganism with Christianity.
Christianity is the opposite. Christianity teaches that paganism is worshiping false gods.
It has not been proven by archeology which books were written first. The Sumerian texts (gilgamesh) or the Hebrew texts. They were both circulating at about the same time.
And Joseph was not born of a virgin. His mother was Rachel and his father was Jacob.
Whoever made this video really hates Christianity.
And if newpolitics really wants truth he or she should have done some internet searching in wikipedia before he or she posted this, or actual history books,like where I got my information from.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The Creationists are back?

And the Godless Statists never left.

 

[AllieBaba]

You want the truth? Jesus probably never existed. As far as comparative religion goes, he was nothing unique at all. Why he was chosen as being our savior is completely arbitrary. As far as I am concerned, you all are praying to a sun god. A pagan deity. (the segment starts at about 8 minutes in)

YouTube - ‪Zeitgeist Part I: The Greatest Story Ever Told (HQ) - Remastered version‬‏

You can fact check all of this too. It's extremely interesting. The alternate narrative becomes clearly obvious. Jesus is and was a myth. Which would explain a lot, namely, why the mythical character is so awesome, and his followers are such complete hypocrits who do everything he told them not to do, feel good about it, and then tell everyone how they must follow him too or else go to hell. God would never be stupid enough to place a figure on this Earth that would cause people to behave in such an idiotic manner, and cause such division. If he is all knowing, then his judgement is terrible.

Er, Jesus wasn't a myth. Josephus referenced him as a man who performed miracles (Josephus was a historian, not a Christian). Get your facts straight, sparky. I hate pseudo-intellectuals who pipe off about stuff they've obviously never researched.

 

[peach174]

You want the truth? Jesus probably never existed. As far as comparative religion goes, he was nothing unique at all. Why he was chosen as being our savior is completely arbitrary. As far as I am concerned, you all are praying to a sun god. A pagan deity. (the segment starts at about 8 minutes in)

YouTube - ‪Zeitgeist Part I: The Greatest Story Ever Told (HQ) - Remastered version‬‏

You can fact check all of this too. It's extremely interesting. The alternate narrative becomes clearly obvious. Jesus is and was a myth. Which would explain a lot, namely, why the mythical character is so awesome, and his followers are such complete hypocrits who do everything he told them not to do, feel good about it, and then tell everyone how they must follow him too or else go to hell. God would never be stupid enough to place a figure on this Earth that would cause people to behave in such an idiotic manner, and cause such division. If he is all knowing, then his judgement is terrible.

Er, Jesus wasn't a myth. Josephus referenced him as a man who performed miracles (Josephus was a historian, not a Christian). Get your facts straight, sparky. I hate pseudo-intellectuals who pipe off about stuff they've obviously never researched.

My sentiments exactly!
I'm glad you included Josephus, there was so much false things, I totally forgot about the reference to Josephus.

 

[Seawytch]

Most myths have a basis in reality...but are far from it.