The Difference

[jc456]

Standing up to them is one thing, confronting them where violence is bound to happen is a whole different ball of wax. If the anti-racists had not shown up the racist rally would have been nothing more than a postscript on the national news, by confronting them it gives them the self validation they're looking for and creates the national attention they crave.

there is always violence when Nazis and their satellites are not around. the protesters did nothing wrong.

a terrorists drove a car into them and killed a young woman who stood up to hate. remember her name, my friend. it was heather hyer. and she was very brave.

the scum defending the Nazis, (not you) are an insult to her memory.

this war was fought already. they don't get better when left to their own devices.

You bring up the young girl who lost her life because some scumbag thought it was a good idea to kill...... To me? Maybe if you read my other posts you'd have not done that. I'm not comparing degrees of violence I'm simply stating that violence should always be condemned no matter who commits it and that by confronting the racists instead of ignoring them gives them national attention and self validation. They're a minority fringe group, treat them as a minority fringe group, don't give them the attention they crave thus marginalizing them even further.

and Wilson, cheney and schwermer were murdered for helping their fellow citizens register to vote.

and countless people were beaten down for marching for civil rights.

civil rights never would have happened if protesters didn't stand up noisily and publicly.

nothing good happens when good people cower in the face of evil. just like my mother's father fought in WWI and was a German POW. Just like my dad put on a uniform and was an MP after the Korean war...just like my uncles all wore uniforms.

sometimes we have to do what we have to do, even if it's standing and showing scum that they're opposed.

I agree, Jillian, but here is the difference: we are not at war. We should not condone the use of violence on our fellow citizens from any quarter. As many here have pointed out in various threads, this has energized the hate groups, given them publicity. Although I don't believe we can ignore them, hitting them with bats at a legal rally is not the answer either.

we're not at war now.

how long you think that lasts if these people are given a foothold and people suck their thumbs?

the war was started by the alt left in Ferguson. And then in Berkeley University. you all have been creating the act of war for three years now. and you are proud of that I see.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Using fascist tactics to fight fascists seems like a great idea.

Only plays into their hands, but you are to dumb to realize that.

It doesn't at all. Standing up to these racist fucks is the right thing to do. After this disaster, cities around the country will not be giving these idiots any more permits to protest in this manner.

They have to give them permits, because you can't deny permits due to the content of a protest, nor can you deny a permit due to a heckler's veto, which is a back door method of denying a permit due to content.

You can certainly deny a permit on the grounds of public safety. They can certainly not allow any gear or weapons. They can certainly contain the size and duration.

Then why didn't Charlotteville do that? I recall a planned anti-fa counter-protest in Oregon last winter or spring that turned to nothing when the police refused to allow them to wear masks. Non-event. Perfect.

I can't speak for them. I can only look forward and guess that most mayors don't want a repeat in their cities.

 

[jc456]

there is always violence when Nazis and their satellites are not around. the protesters did nothing wrong.

a terrorists drove a car into them and killed a young woman who stood up to hate. remember her name, my friend. it was heather hyer. and she was very brave.

the scum defending the Nazis, (not you) are an insult to her memory.

this war was fought already. they don't get better when left to their own devices.

You bring up the young girl who lost her life because some scumbag thought it was a good idea to kill...... To me? Maybe if you read my other posts you'd have not done that. I'm not comparing degrees of violence I'm simply stating that violence should always be condemned no matter who commits it and that by confronting the racists instead of ignoring them gives them national attention and self validation. They're a minority fringe group, treat them as a minority fringe group, don't give them the attention they crave thus marginalizing them even further.

and Wilson, cheney and schwermer were murdered for helping their fellow citizens register to vote.

and countless people were beaten down for marching for civil rights.

civil rights never would have happened if protesters didn't stand up noisily and publicly.

nothing good happens when good people cower in the face of evil. just like my mother's father fought in WWI and was a German POW. Just like my dad put on a uniform and was an MP after the Korean war...just like my uncles all wore uniforms.

sometimes we have to do what we have to do, even if it's standing and showing scum that they're opposed.

I agree, Jillian, but here is the difference: we are not at war. We should not condone the use of violence on our fellow citizens from any quarter. As many here have pointed out in various threads, this has energized the hate groups, given them publicity. Although I don't believe we can ignore them, hitting them with bats at a legal rally is not the answer either.

we're not at war now.

how long you think that lasts if these people are given a foothold and people suck their thumbs?

the war was started by the alt left in Ferguson. And then in Berkeley University. you all have been creating the act of war for three years now. and you are proud of that I see.

your pansy little asses think we should just accept your violence, well we don't. And you wore it proudly that day in Charlottesville for all to see.

 

[jc456]

You're justifying an overt act of violence? You're no better than they are.

Violence toward whom?

Do you have any evidence that anyone was actually harmed with that spray can?

If I took a swing at you but missed it would still be an act of violence even though you were not hurt. Care to try again?

You don't know that man's intent, dope.
I understand that he's a big, scary black guy but you have no idea what that photo depicts.

sure we do, he is firing fire that is a military weapon at another human being in an aggressive manner. I can tell from the picture, the dude on the step was backing up. so injury didn't happen. See you have double standards and are no better then the group you detest. you are scum

So dumb. A military weapon? It's probably a can of deodorant.

so that wasn't a flame being thrown? ok bumber sticker boy. again, I now know who you are. you are a alt left that enjoys bullying your fellow american, no different than the neo groups. thanks for the acknowledgment bubba.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Trying to burn?
Maybe taunting.


View attachment 143975

You're justifying an overt act of violence? You're no better than they are.

Violence toward whom?

Do you have any evidence that anyone was actually harmed with that spray can?

If I took a swing at you but missed it would still be an act of violence even though you were not hurt. Care to try again?

You don't know that man's intent, dope.
I understand that he's a big, scary black guy but you have no idea what that photo depicts.

he's a big, scary black guy

Oh and this speaks volumes about you, not me. I saw a human being commit a potential criminal assault regardless of what his intentions may or may have not been. Didn't even notice his color at first. Oops.......

You cannot say what is happening in that photo. Dude could have just been taunting them as he walked by. It may have only been ignited for the time it took to take the photo.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Violence toward whom?

Do you have any evidence that anyone was actually harmed with that spray can?

If I took a swing at you but missed it would still be an act of violence even though you were not hurt. Care to try again?

You don't know that man's intent, dope.
I understand that he's a big, scary black guy but you have no idea what that photo depicts.

sure we do, he is firing fire that is a military weapon at another human being in an aggressive manner. I can tell from the picture, the dude on the step was backing up. so injury didn't happen. See you have double standards and are no better then the group you detest. you are scum

So dumb. A military weapon? It's probably a can of deodorant.

so that wasn't a flame being thrown? ok bumber sticker boy. again, I now know who you are. you are a alt left that enjoys bullying your fellow american, no different than the neo groups. thanks for the acknowledgment bubba.

It's a spray can, fool.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You bring up the young girl who lost her life because some scumbag thought it was a good idea to kill...... To me? Maybe if you read my other posts you'd have not done that. I'm not comparing degrees of violence I'm simply stating that violence should always be condemned no matter who commits it and that by confronting the racists instead of ignoring them gives them national attention and self validation. They're a minority fringe group, treat them as a minority fringe group, don't give them the attention they crave thus marginalizing them even further.

and Wilson, cheney and schwermer were murdered for helping their fellow citizens register to vote.

and countless people were beaten down for marching for civil rights.

civil rights never would have happened if protesters didn't stand up noisily and publicly.

nothing good happens when good people cower in the face of evil. just like my mother's father fought in WWI and was a German POW. Just like my dad put on a uniform and was an MP after the Korean war...just like my uncles all wore uniforms.

sometimes we have to do what we have to do, even if it's standing and showing scum that they're opposed.

I agree, Jillian, but here is the difference: we are not at war. We should not condone the use of violence on our fellow citizens from any quarter. As many here have pointed out in various threads, this has energized the hate groups, given them publicity. Although I don't believe we can ignore them, hitting them with bats at a legal rally is not the answer either.

we're not at war now.

how long you think that lasts if these people are given a foothold and people suck their thumbs?

the war was started by the alt left in Ferguson. And then in Berkeley University. you all have been creating the act of war for three years now. and you are proud of that I see.

your pansy little asses think we should just accept your violence, well we don't. And you wore it proudly that day in Charlottesville for all to see.

Violent pansy asses?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Here lies the problem wh Trumps reaction to VA...

Is counter-protesting hate groups an extremist view?
Nope.

Can you be putting yourself in danger by doing so?
Yep.

Is it going to accomplish anything of substance?
Nope.

Would it be better to ignore them, as they deserve?
Yep.

Would all that protesting energy be put to better use by taking someone we disagree with out to lunch and sincerely communicating with them?
Yep.
.

you don't think publicly standing up to Nazis is an effective tool?

hmmmm... i do. it might make them crawl back into their holes where they belong.

and at a minimum it sends a message to those in power that the orange one can't be allowed to legitimize these freaks.

I'm going out with my sign this week. i feel like I'm obligated to and if i don't then I'm complicit.

"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing".

Standing up to them is one thing, confronting them where violence is bound to happen is a whole different ball of wax. If the anti-racists had not shown up the racist rally would have been nothing more than a postscript on the national news, by confronting them it gives them the self validation they're looking for and creates the national attention they crave.

The president gave them validation. The rest of the world rightfully condemned them.

Well you just told me everything I needed to know, complete lack of objectivity. Thanks, it means I no longer should waste my time.

Objectivity is knowing that you don't have enough information to make a judgement on that photo.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You don't know that man's intent, dope.
I understand that he's a big, scary black guy but you have no idea what that photo depicts.

From a legal standpoint it looks to be an act of intentional violence. Obviously you're unfamiliar with how criminal law works.

From a legal standpoint you have no evidence of anything except an ignited spray can.

You keep telling yourself that Sparkette. I do have a question for you. How much law enforcement/criminal law experience do you have?

Enough to know that you can't indict let alone prosecute that man on the sole basis of that photo.

No but he can be arrested and potentially prosecuted so obviously your knowledge of criminal law is seriously lacking.

On what probable cause? Was there a complaint? If I show you a photo of a man carrying a long gun, does that show that he intended to harm someone?

 

[jc456]

If I took a swing at you but missed it would still be an act of violence even though you were not hurt. Care to try again?

You don't know that man's intent, dope.
I understand that he's a big, scary black guy but you have no idea what that photo depicts.

sure we do, he is firing fire that is a military weapon at another human being in an aggressive manner. I can tell from the picture, the dude on the step was backing up. so injury didn't happen. See you have double standards and are no better then the group you detest. you are scum

So dumb. A military weapon? It's probably a can of deodorant.

so that wasn't a flame being thrown? ok bumber sticker boy. again, I now know who you are. you are a alt left that enjoys bullying your fellow american, no different than the neo groups. thanks for the acknowledgment bubba.

It's a spray can, fool.

it's fire and fire is a weapon. sorry stupid fk that you condone that. you are as bad as that fk. extremist.

BTW, a rock is a rock until it is thrown at someone.

 

[jc456]

From a legal standpoint it looks to be an act of intentional violence. Obviously you're unfamiliar with how criminal law works.

From a legal standpoint you have no evidence of anything except an ignited spray can.

You keep telling yourself that Sparkette. I do have a question for you. How much law enforcement/criminal law experience do you have?

Enough to know that you can't indict let alone prosecute that man on the sole basis of that photo.

No but he can be arrested and potentially prosecuted so obviously your knowledge of criminal law is seriously lacking.

On what probable cause? Was there a complaint? If I show you a photo of a man carrying a long gun, does that show that he intended to harm someone?

condoning violence is an extremist position that I see you are happily accepting. makes you one.

 

[Ringel05]

You're justifying an overt act of violence? You're no better than they are.

Violence toward whom?

Do you have any evidence that anyone was actually harmed with that spray can?

If I took a swing at you but missed it would still be an act of violence even though you were not hurt. Care to try again?

You don't know that man's intent, dope.
I understand that he's a big, scary black guy but you have no idea what that photo depicts.

he's a big, scary black guy

Oh and this speaks volumes about you, not me. I saw a human being commit a potential criminal assault regardless of what his intentions may or may have not been. Didn't even notice his color at first. Oops.......

You cannot say what is happening in that photo. Dude could have just been taunting them as he walked by. It may have only been ignited for the time it took to take the photo.

Yes I can, in a court of law I can prove intent based on the fact he brought an improvised weapon (legal definition) and aimed it at other "human beings" I put it in quotes because I personally don't consider the racists to be human but the law does and I have to respect the law. So take your weak emotive argument elsewhere I'm not interested.

 

[Ringel05]

Is counter-protesting hate groups an extremist view?
Nope.

Can you be putting yourself in danger by doing so?
Yep.

Is it going to accomplish anything of substance?
Nope.

Would it be better to ignore them, as they deserve?
Yep.

Would all that protesting energy be put to better use by taking someone we disagree with out to lunch and sincerely communicating with them?
Yep.
.

you don't think publicly standing up to Nazis is an effective tool?

hmmmm... i do. it might make them crawl back into their holes where they belong.

and at a minimum it sends a message to those in power that the orange one can't be allowed to legitimize these freaks.

I'm going out with my sign this week. i feel like I'm obligated to and if i don't then I'm complicit.

"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing".

Standing up to them is one thing, confronting them where violence is bound to happen is a whole different ball of wax. If the anti-racists had not shown up the racist rally would have been nothing more than a postscript on the national news, by confronting them it gives them the self validation they're looking for and creates the national attention they crave.

The president gave them validation. The rest of the world rightfully condemned them.

Well you just told me everything I needed to know, complete lack of objectivity. Thanks, it means I no longer should waste my time.

Objectivity is knowing that you don't have enough information to make a judgement on that photo.

Objectivity is not using emotive rational as your basis for argument. Have a nice life.

 

[flacaltenn]

Merge -- 2 threads supporting counter demo nuts.

 

[Kosh]

Here lies the problem wh Trumps reaction to VA...

Is counter-protesting hate groups an extremist view?
Nope.

Can you be putting yourself in danger by doing so?
Yep.

Is it going to accomplish anything of substance?
Nope.

Would it be better to ignore them, as they deserve?
Yep.

Would all that protesting energy be put to better use by taking someone we disagree with out to lunch and sincerely communicating with them?
Yep.
.

you don't think publicly standing up to Nazis is an effective tool?

hmmmm... i do. it might make them crawl back into their holes where they belong.

and at a minimum it sends a message to those in power that the orange one can't be allowed to legitimize these freaks.

I'm going out with my sign this week. i feel like I'm obligated to and if i don't then I'm complicit.

"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing".

Standing up to them is one thing, confronting them where violence is bound to happen is a whole different ball of wax. If the anti-racists had not shown up the racist rally would have been nothing more than a postscript on the national news, by confronting them it gives them the self validation they're looking for and creates the national attention they crave.

there is always violence when Nazis and their satellites are not around. the protesters did nothing wrong.

a terrorists drove a car into them and killed a young woman who stood up to hate. remember her name, my friend. it was heather hyer. and she was very brave.

the scum defending the Nazis, (not you) are an insult to her memory.

this war was fought already. they don't get better when left to their own devices.

See how the far left will defend their far left terrorist, just like they do ISIS?

One counterprotester apparently deployed a chemical spray, which affected the eyes of a dozen or so marchers. It left them floundering and seeking medical assistance.

One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering in Charlottesville; two police die in helicopter crash

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

did i suggest they were?.....

Harry. I dig ya. But this shit is weak.

how is it weak?....i never suggested what you are apparently saying i said....i made a statement concerning VIOLENT people of any race or creed,and yes that includes the ANTIFA idiots.....maybe you should go back and read this stuff again....

Read the OP.

Violence sucks.

But there is a difference between offense and defense. It is that simple.

both were there ready to do combat LL.....it is that simple.....

Nope. One was a reaction. It is that simple.

Your opinion is noted. I respectfully disagree. I believe America can do without White Supremacists as well as the BLM movement. Actions must have consequences.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Harry. I dig ya. But this shit is weak.

how is it weak?....i never suggested what you are apparently saying i said....i made a statement concerning VIOLENT people of any race or creed,and yes that includes the ANTIFA idiots.....maybe you should go back and read this stuff again....

Read the OP.

Violence sucks.

But there is a difference between offense and defense. It is that simple.

both were there ready to do combat LL.....it is that simple.....

Nope. One was a reaction. It is that simple.

Your opinion is noted. I respectfully disagree. I believe America can do without White Supremacists as well as the BLM movement. Actions must have consequences.

They ain't the same, bro. One wouldn't be here if not for the other. Peace.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Read the OP.

Violence sucks.

But there is a difference between offense and defense. It is that simple.

both were there ready to do combat LL.....it is that simple.....

Nope. One was a reaction. It is that simple.

so the lefties that had baseball bats were on their way to a game and just stopped by to see whats going on?...how about the guys with gas masks?....why did they have those with them?...

Reaction. Straight up.

yea the reaction was..."hey guys the fucking nazis are going to be protesting today,lets take our bats and go and yell things at them and maybe we can crack some fucking racist heads!"....you are just making excuses for the left LL,but dont feel bad many righties are doing the same thing for the other side....

Both sides of the protests applied for and were granted permits. It was organized violence.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I see someone in a KKK uniform, I think of all the people the KKK and their ilk murdered.

I see someone in a Nazi uniform, I think of the millions and millions of people mass murdered by Nazis.

And then they whine when someone punches their fucking faces? Really?

You're a very hate filled and violent person. You realize you are no different from what you say you hate?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Violence toward whom?

Do you have any evidence that anyone was actually harmed with that spray can?

If I took a swing at you but missed it would still be an act of violence even though you were not hurt. Care to try again?

You don't know that man's intent, dope.
I understand that he's a big, scary black guy but you have no idea what that photo depicts.

he's a big, scary black guy

Oh and this speaks volumes about you, not me. I saw a human being commit a potential criminal assault regardless of what his intentions may or may have not been. Didn't even notice his color at first. Oops.......

You cannot say what is happening in that photo. Dude could have just been taunting them as he walked by. It may have only been ignited for the time it took to take the photo.

Yes I can, in a court of law I can prove intent based on the fact he brought an improvised weapon (legal definition) and aimed it at other "human beings" I put it in quotes because I personally don't consider the racists to be human but the law does and I have to respect the law. So take your weak emotive argument elsewhere I'm not interested.

Great. Let's look at that. When ignited it certainly could be an improvised weapon. You cannot prove intent simply by the photo however. What does the photo show? How far is the end of the flame from the man with the flag? I guess two or three feet. Is the man with the can advancing, retreating, stationary? Can't say at all from the photo. Is the man with the can intentionally remaining out of range and simply taunting or pushing them back? Certainly plausible.

I think your best case is menacing. But that's what the entire crowd is doing to each other.