The Dilemma Black Athletes Find Themselves In

[Asclepias]

This is what real men say. A draft dodger wouldnt even show up.

“Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?

No, I'm not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end.

I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality.

If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn't have to draft me, I'd join tomorrow.

I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I'll go to jail, so what? We've been in jail for 400 years."
-Ali

 

[Shrimpbox]

You are so full of it A. Colin K didn’t donate to anything before he started kneeling and as this article shows he has donated a measly 100 grand out of a 23 million dollar salary just in the last two months cause his pr man said he had to do something. Why don’t you stop being lazy and post the info you say exists yourself instead of making an unsubstantiated claim. As the top poster you definitely have a lot of time on your hands.

Colin Kaepernick details his charitable donations via web site

 

[Asclepias]

You are so full of it A. Colin K didn’t donate to anything before he started kneeling and as this article shows he has donated a measly 100 grand out of a 23 million dollar salary just in the last two months cause his pr man said he had to do something. Why don’t you stop being lazy and post the info you say exists yourself instead of making an unsubstantiated claim. As the top poster you definitely have a lot of time on your hands.

Colin Kaepernick details his charitable donations via web site

His charity existed long before he took a knee. I honestly could give a shit what you want to believe to be honest. I just thought you smart enough to google what players currently do for their people.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Top 15 NFL Players Who Are Actually Good People

Making An Impact, Top 10 NFL Player Foundations

 

[Shrimpbox]

What charity did Colin have before he took a knee

 

[MikeK]

[QUOTE="9thIDdoc, post: 18456862, member: 31723"He was a great fighter. But he was also a draft dodger.[/QUOTE]
No. He didn't fit into that category. Draft dodgers were those who feigned non-existent injuries and illnesses or, at most, moved to Canada. Ali chose not to participate in what he knew to be a pointless, wasteful, war crime and he stood his ground honestly and courageously -- and he inspired tens of thousands of young men to burn their draft-cards and refuse to kill or die in McNamara's folly.

I was fortunate. I served my active military obligation from 1956 to 1960. I still had a two year Inactive Reserve obligation which ended in 1962. The Vietnam draft began in 1963, so I was immune to conscription or recall. If I wasn't I really don't know what I would have done because I was fully aware of what a fiasco Vietnam was and I might have decided to follow Ali's example.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Muhammal Ali was one the few black people who told white people the truth to there face.

As opposed to their "here" face?

They're - there - their!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

He was a great fighter. But he was also a draft dodger.

No, Trump is a draft dodger. Ali just refused to step forward at the induction station. He didn't dodge a damn thing. He made a decision and stuck by it just like a true champion would regardless of the consequences.

Wrong. He was a draft dodger who was convicted and served jail time for his crime; and rightly so. He simply didn't have the courage to do his duty as a citizen. No way to spin that.

Ali served no jail time you moron.He was simply stripped of his title which he regained in spectacular fashion.

And he

One shining example of us having better than that was Cassius Clay, aka Muhammad Ali, one of the finest athletes in my recollection and a deservedly proud Black man. He was one of a kind and there never has been anyone, Black or White, who came close to his athletic achievement and his sense of dignity.

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

You obviously know nothing about the sport.

And a draft dodger. Even if he went to jail "for his beliefs", he still dodged the draft.

There is a difference between being a draft dodger and a concientous objector. Feel free to use Google.

A conscientious objector is a draft dodger with what he thinks is a good reason.

Anyways, what's he objecting to? Living in a great country?

Conscientious objectors can serve in the military. They do not have to dodge the draft.

 

[MikeK]

It really is a shame how so many have been brought up to be consumed by their skin color.

People deserve better than that.

One shining example of us having better than that was Cassius Clay, aka Muhammad Ali, one of the finest athletes in my recollection and a deservedly proud Black man. He was one of a kind and there never has been anyone, Black or White, who came close to his athletic achievement and his sense of dignity.

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

That remains to be seen and I strongly disagree. Ali's style was graceful avoidance of exactly what Tyson depended on -- which is clumsy brute strength. I believe Ali would have tired him out and chopped him down, which is the opinion of every major boxing critic who ever commented on that prospect.

 

[MikeK]

It really is a shame how so many have been brought up to be consumed by their skin color.

People deserve better than that.

One shining example of us having better than that was Cassius Clay, aka Muhammad Ali, one of the finest athletes in my recollection and a deservedly proud Black man. He was one of a kind and there never has been anyone, Black or White, who came close to his athletic achievement and his sense of dignity.

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

You obviously know nothing about the sport.

 

[Wry Catcher]

No, Trump is a draft dodger. Ali just refused to step forward at the induction station. He didn't dodge a damn thing. He made a decision and stuck by it just like a true champion would regardless of the consequences.

Wrong. He was a draft dodger who was convicted and served jail time for his crime; and rightly so. He simply didn't have the courage to do his duty as a citizen. No way to spin that.

Ali served no jail time you moron.He was simply stripped of his title which he regained in spectacular fashion.

And he

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

You obviously know nothing about the sport.

And a draft dodger. Even if he went to jail "for his beliefs", he still dodged the draft.

There is a difference between being a draft dodger and a concientous objector. Feel free to use Google.

A conscientious objector is a draft dodger with what he thinks is a good reason.

Anyways, what's he objecting to? Living in a great country?

Conscientious objectors can serve in the military. They do not have to dodge the draft.

Which, if any, military jobs do not support in one way or another the ultimate goal of the military - killing the enemy?

 

[MikeK]

When did you enlist? And why?

1968. I was drafted.[/QUOTE]
I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1956. My reason for doing so was genuine, unmitigated, patriotic pride which derived mainly from my father's and two uncles' service in the Pacific in WW-II. Luckily I was immune from being conscripted for Vietnam, but if I wasn't I honestly don't know what I would have done if I wasn't immune and had been drafted for that criminal fiasco.

Enlisting the the Marines is a statement that one is ready and willing to fight and die for his country, so there was no question about my patriotism and loyalty. But by 1963, which is when the Vietnam draft started, I had become sufficiently informed to be aware that our military actions in Vietnam were not only unnecessary but wasteful and plainly detrimental to the purpose and the reputation of the U.S. Armed Forces. This was well-known to the well-informed segment of Americans. So, again, I honestly don't know what I would have done. I think I would have been a draft-card burner.

 

[Taz]

It really is a shame how so many have been brought up to be consumed by their skin color.

People deserve better than that.

One shining example of us having better than that was Cassius Clay, aka Muhammad Ali, one of the finest athletes in my recollection and a deservedly proud Black man. He was one of a kind and there never has been anyone, Black or White, who came close to his athletic achievement and his sense of dignity.

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

That remains to be seen and I strongly disagree. Ali's style was graceful avoidance of exactly what Tyson depended on -- which is clumsy brute strength. I believe Ali would have tired him out and chopped him down, which is the opinion of every major boxing critic who ever commented on that prospect.

He couldn't have rope-a-doped Tyson, Mike would have landed one big one and it would have been lights out. Like Joe Frazier's punch that knocked him backwards on his ass, except if Tyson tags him like that, he takes a while to wake up.

 

[JQPublic1]

No, Trump is a draft dodger. Ali just refused to step forward at the induction station. He didn't dodge a damn thing. He made a decision and stuck by it just like a true champion would regardless of the consequences.

Wrong. He was a draft dodger who was convicted and served jail time for his crime; and rightly so. He simply didn't have the courage to do his duty as a citizen. No way to spin that.

Ali served no jail time you moron.He was simply stripped of his title which he regained in spectacular fashion.

And he

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

You obviously know nothing about the sport.

And a draft dodger. Even if he went to jail "for his beliefs", he still dodged the draft.

There is a difference between being a draft dodger and a concientous objector. Feel free to use Google.

A conscientious objector is a draft dodger with what he thinks is a good reason.

Anyways, what's he objecting to? Living in a great country?

Conscientious objectors can serve in the military. They do not have to dodge the draft.

Correct. So Ali's refusal to serve, although grounded in a conscientious objection, was still not draft dodging. He didn't dodge...he met the U.S. government head on. He refused
to serve an entity that allowed his people to be oppressed and marginalized. He recognized and acted on the hypocrisy America had been selling blacks for decades.
Mirror mirror on the wall, Ali was the bravest of them all.

 

[JQPublic1]

It really is a shame how so many have been brought up to be consumed by their skin color.

People deserve better than that.

One shining example of us having better than that was Cassius Clay, aka Muhammad Ali, one of the finest athletes in my recollection and a deservedly proud Black man. He was one of a kind and there never has been anyone, Black or White, who came close to his athletic achievement and his sense of dignity.

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

That remains to be seen and I strongly disagree. Ali's style was graceful avoidance of exactly what Tyson depended on -- which is clumsy brute strength. I believe Ali would have tired him out and chopped him down, which is the opinion of every major boxing critic who ever commented on that prospect.

He couldn't have rope-a-doped Tyson, Mike would have landed one big one and it would have been lights out. Like Joe Frazier's punch that knocked him backwards on his ass, except if Tyson tags him like that, he takes a while to wake up.

Ali Ko'd a much bigger and tougher opponent than.Mike Tyson. That would be the White power structure that takes black tax dollars, sends black kids off to war, treats blacks like 2nd class bozos and executes them at will on city streets.

 

[MikeK]

Somehow the word "wimp" just doesn't fly as a description of ALI. Any man who could face and defeat some of the bigges, meanest, hardest hitting humans on the planet is a hero that demands respect just by the courage he showed. But to give up millions of dollars and a championship title you worked your whole life for to uphold a principle is so profound it places Ali on a level with MLK and Malcolm X.

The greatness of that moment even overshadows his boxing prowess.

That is the point most of Ali's detractors fail to consider. He was willing to sacrifice a life of wealth and glory to do something and to tell a truth that no other prominent figure in American society dared to do. Even though I was immune to conscription at that time I recall being stunned by what that man did. How could anyone not admire him. I recall wishing he was White. But I wasn't about to let the fact that he wasn't alter my feelings, because what he did was far too important and socially significant for that.

I suppose that today I would feel differently, mainly because of what Ali's Muslim affiliation portends -- along with the presently rising racial conflict. But that was the 1960s. No such inhibitions and influences existed then. And the intensity of my feelings about the Vietnam fiasco is such that what Ali did is even more significant to me today than it was back then.

 

[MikeK]

Ali told white people what he wasn't going to do in emphatic and spectacular fashion. Thats a man. Your boyfriend Drumpf claimed he had bone spurs and got 5 deferments. Thats what you call a wimp.

I didn't perceive what Ali did as "telling White people what he wasn't going to do" so much as him having the personal integrity to stand up to the corrupt, incompetent, self-serving demagogues in government and tell them he wasn't going to risk dying to kill people whom we had absolutely no good reason to fight and to kill. In his brief statement of bold refusal he awakened millions of Americans to something they were not conscious of.

But, again, that was the 1960s and the race situation in America was vastly different from what it is today. It was a very different Country.

 

[MikeK]

Ali Ko'd a much bigger and tougher opponent than.Mike Tyson. That would be the White power structure that takes black tax dollars, sends black kids off to war, treats blacks like 2nd class bozos and executes them at will on city streets.

Today there is no draft (unfortunately), so nobody is sending Blacks (or Whites) off to war. And when there was a draft the percentage of Whites who were "sent off" far exceeded the percentage of Blacks. But aside from that it was wrong to send either category to fight and die in Vietnam.

Regarding your comments about "2nd class bozos" and willful street executions, there might be some level of justification for those observations but certainly not nearly as serious as your statement implies.

 

[9thIDdoc]

No, Trump is a draft dodger. Ali just refused to step forward at the induction station. He didn't dodge a damn thing. He made a decision and stuck by it just like a true champion would regardless of the consequences.

Wrong. He was a draft dodger who was convicted and served jail time for his crime; and rightly so. He simply didn't have the courage to do his duty as a citizen. No way to spin that.

Ali served no jail time you moron.He was simply stripped of his title which he regained in spectacular fashion.

And he

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

You obviously know nothing about the sport.

And a draft dodger. Even if he went to jail "for his beliefs", he still dodged the draft.

There is a difference between being a draft dodger and a concientous objector. Feel free to use Google.

There mostly certainly is and Ali (or Clay before he changed his name) was a draft dodger because he refused induction. Conscientious Objectors actually served in the military and in Vietnam and many received awards for valor. They refused to fight; not serve. Draft dodgers like Ali only served to give actual conscientious objectors shameful reputations as childish wimps.

Somehow the word "wimp" just doesn't fly as a description of ALI. Any man who could face
and defeat some of the bigges, meanest, hardest hitting humans on the planet is a hero
that demands respect just by the courage he showed. But to give up millions of dollars and a championship title you worked your whole life for to uphold a principle is so profound it
places Ali on a level with MLK and Malcolm X.
The greatness of that moment even overshadows his boxing prowess.

How silly! The only principle he upheld was that of keeping his ass as far out of harm's way as possible. Prize fighting is a game; he couldn't handle even the possibility of real fighting. Because he was too frightened to do his duty someone else had to be sent in his place. That person was far far closer to being an actual hero.

 

[9thIDdoc]

No, Trump is a draft dodger. Ali just refused to step forward at the induction station. He didn't dodge a damn thing. He made a decision and stuck by it just like a true champion would regardless of the consequences.

Wrong. He was a draft dodger who was convicted and served jail time for his crime; and rightly so. He simply didn't have the courage to do his duty as a citizen. No way to spin that.

Ali served no jail time you moron.He was simply stripped of his title which he regained in spectacular fashion.

And he

He was a loud-mouthed fool who never knew when to stop. Boxing OR talking. Mike Tyson would have eaten him for lunch.

You obviously know nothing about the sport.

And a draft dodger. Even if he went to jail "for his beliefs", he still dodged the draft.

There is a difference between being a draft dodger and a concientous objector. Feel free to use Google.

There mostly certainly is and Ali (or Clay before he changed his name) was a draft dodger because he refused induction. Conscientious Objectors actually served in the military and in Vietnam and many received awards for valor. They refused to fight; not serve. Draft dodgers like Ali only served to give actual conscientious objectors shameful reputations as childish wimps.

Ali told white people what he wasn't going to do in emphatic and spectacular fashion. Thats a man. Your boyfriend Drumpf claimed he had bone spurs and got 5 deferments. Thats what you call a wimp.

WTF do you know about the draft or deferments? Nothing at all less than honorable about having a deferment. Nothing at all honorable about refusing to do your duty. Ali wimped out. End of story.