The electoral college is a disaster for democracy

[paperview]

without the EC, 4 of our largest metropolitan areas could select our presidents-----------the tiny blue spots on the voting map that has been posted many times.

The founders understood that that would be a disaster.

Bullshit.
You can't make that argument work. Cannot be done. Go ahead and give it a shot.

A PV in no way takes any votes away from outside of metro areas.
An EC on the other hand nullifies literally millions on the spot.

And again, this system wasn't set up by "the Founders" but by the Twelfth Amendment.... which also counted slaves for three-fifths of a person for the purpose of counting EVs (but not for the purpose of voting).

That of course was revised with the Fourteenth when slavery was abolished ---- which also counted women for the purpose of counting EVs but not for the purpose of voting.

That part wasn't fixed until the Nineteenth.

Notice that this Yugo is always in the shop?

Yugo = Pogo

it is a well known FACT that the voters in our largest cities are predominately democrats. So NY, Chitown, LA, Houston, Philly, and DC could decide our presidents. For that matter, California and New York plus Chitown and Philly could pick our presidents.


The EC gives an electoral voice to the citizens of Alaska, Idaho, Mississippi, and Kansas.

Sorry if you think it caused your terrible hildebeast to lose. That's just the way it is. BTW, the latest counts have Trump winning the popular vote as well as the EC-----------------------------------------------------Soooooooo, Hillary is a two time LOSER who may end up in jail. The system works.

You don't deserve to have your vote diluted just because you live in a city.

you don't deserve to have your vote not count just because you live in a low population state. The EC is the best compromise and in almost every case the winner of the EC also won the PV. Trump included, the latest counts have him winning both.

Show me where Trump is winning the popular vote:

2016 election results: State maps, live updates

He's not. She clearly won the PV.

Your citation of 600K has not changed much in days. Keep in mind the Friday holiday, and now weekend. On Monday, vote tabulation will resume.

"Votes are still being counted, however, with the outstanding ballots overwhelmingly concentrated in Democratic bastions like California, Washington state and New York.

The Times’ Nate Cohn estimated on Saturday that there were a total of 7 million votes* left to be counted nationwide. As of Thursday, more than 4 million votes had yet to be counted in California alone.

That means that Clinton’s lead will almost certainly grow in the coming days, as it has since election night."

*He has since adjusted that to about 5 million.

Hillary Clinton's Popular Vote Victory Keeps Growing

 

[JakeStarkey]

Trump has a strong mandate from the white working class, particularly from the midwest, yes.

 

[Pogo]

Bullshit.
You can't make that argument work. Cannot be done. Go ahead and give it a shot.

A PV in no way takes any votes away from outside of metro areas.
An EC on the other hand nullifies literally millions on the spot.

And again, this system wasn't set up by "the Founders" but by the Twelfth Amendment.... which also counted slaves for three-fifths of a person for the purpose of counting EVs (but not for the purpose of voting).

That of course was revised with the Fourteenth when slavery was abolished ---- which also counted women for the purpose of counting EVs but not for the purpose of voting.

That part wasn't fixed until the Nineteenth.

Notice that this Yugo is always in the shop?

Yugo = Pogo

it is a well known FACT that the voters in our largest cities are predominately democrats. So NY, Chitown, LA, Houston, Philly, and DC could decide our presidents. For that matter, California and New York plus Chitown and Philly could pick our presidents.


The EC gives an electoral voice to the citizens of Alaska, Idaho, Mississippi, and Kansas.

Sorry if you think it caused your terrible hildebeast to lose. That's just the way it is. BTW, the latest counts have Trump winning the popular vote as well as the EC-----------------------------------------------------Soooooooo, Hillary is a two time LOSER who may end up in jail. The system works.

You don't deserve to have your vote diluted just because you live in a city.

you don't deserve to have your vote not count just because you live in a low population state. The EC is the best compromise and in almost every case the winner of the EC also won the PV. Trump included, the latest counts have him winning both.

Show me where Trump is winning the popular vote:

2016 election results: State maps, live updates

He's not. She clearly won the PV.

Your citation of 600K has not changed much in days. Keep in mind the Friday holiday, and now weekend. On Monday, vote tabulation will resume.

"Votes are still being counted, however, with the outstanding ballots overwhelmingly concentrated in Democratic bastions like California, Washington state and New York.

The Times’ Nate Cohn estimated on Saturday that there were a total of 7 million votes* left to be counted nationwide. As of Thursday, more than 4 million votes had yet to be counted in California alone.

That means that Clinton’s lead will almost certainly grow in the coming days, as it has since election night."

*He has since adjusted that to about 5 million.

Hillary Clinton's Popular Vote Victory Keeps Growing

Four million yet to be counted in California alone last I heard.

That doesn't change the outcome of the election even if they were all to go to Clinton. But it does mean in effect that the people voted one way and the EC will vote another.

(--- barring something like faithless electors or something else that might come up between now and when the EC meets.)

That might be more arguable if we elected the EC to represent our vote. But we don't.

No, the EC is set up to mirror in number the people we DO elect in Congress --- but those reps do not cast "winner take all" assent votes on bills they have, on behalf of their constituents, opposed. And that's where this whole ridiculous system runs into a ditch.

Now if those EC mirror people were to cast EC votes according to how their Congressional district voted, the final count would be quite different (wonder if anyone has worked that out?). And while it still wouldn't be a PV, it would at least approach something closer to the reality of the will of the People than what we have now.

My state is set to cast all of its EVs for Rump. If my state voted unanimously -- literally everybody across this 600-mile-wide diverse state -- for Rump, that would start to make sense.

We didn't, not even vaguely close. This system is absurd.

 

[Pogo]

This discussion takes place every four years, Nimrod. That's because the EC only HAPPENS every four years, fucking DUH. And if you get up off your worthless hiny and go search the site you'll find all these arguments being made *BEFORE* the election too. This ain't new, it's simply revitalized. That's what happens to things when they're current news, Dumbass.

Moreover, the title of this thread was composed by Donald Rump himself. And he was right. And that was --- all together now ---- four years ago.

without the EC, 4 of our largest metropolitan areas could select our presidents-----------the tiny blue spots on the voting map that has been posted many times.

The founders understood that that would be a disaster.

Bullshit.
You can't make that argument work. Cannot be done. Go ahead and give it a shot.

A PV in no way takes any votes away from outside of metro areas.
An EC on the other hand nullifies literally millions on the spot.

And again, this system wasn't set up by "the Founders" but by the Twelfth Amendment.... which also counted slaves for three-fifths of a person for the purpose of counting EVs (but not for the purpose of voting).

That of course was revised with the Fourteenth when slavery was abolished ---- which also counted women for the purpose of counting EVs but not for the purpose of voting.

That part wasn't fixed until the Nineteenth.

Notice that this Yugo is always in the shop?

Yugo = Pogo

it is a well known FACT that the voters in our largest cities are predominately democrats. So NY, Chitown, LA, Houston, Philly, and DC could decide our presidents. For that matter, California and New York plus Chitown and Philly could pick our presidents.


The EC gives an electoral voice to the citizens of Alaska, Idaho, Mississippi, and Kansas.

Sorry if you think it caused your terrible hildebeast to lose. That's just the way it is. BTW, the latest counts have Trump winning the popular vote as well as the EC-----------------------------------------------------Soooooooo, Hillary is a two time LOSER who may end up in jail. The system works.

You don't deserve to have your vote diluted just because you live in a city.

you don't deserve to have your vote not count just because you live in a low population state. The EC is the best compromise and in almost every case the winner of the EC also won the PV. Trump included, the latest counts have him winning both.

The point of parallel count is obviously way off but let's address the prior point.

Y'all Echobubblers keep parroting this line about votes "counting" differently depending on "big" and "little" states, but you can't make that case, because "one" still equals "one" and always will. Nothing about using a PV would change that elemental mathematical fact . And as I've pointed out relentlessly, your state (any state) elects its chief executive that way already with no issues of "big" parishes versus "little" ones. Every voter in Orleans gets counted exactly the same as every voter in Winn. There ain't no disparity. It's impossible to make that case.

Think of it this way. If a year ago West Virginia had decided to rejoin Virginia, Rump would have had ALL of those EVs because WV would have pushed VA well over the edge. In your logic the WV vote would thus count for *more*. Why should it?

Apparently you want certain votes, in this case urban, to be diluted because you don't like that the people who vote against the way you want are more numerous. You yourself came right out and said so right here:

it is a well known FACT that the voters in our largest cities are predominately democrats.

It's the same effect as gerrymandering to manipulate districts into the shape the gerrymanderer wants, rather than what its people want.

 

[2aguy]

The electoral college seems to only be a problem when a republican wins...when bill the rapist won and barak the incompetent won.....no one had a problem....

 

[Pogo]

Then you went on babbling in this unsupportable logic thusly

o NY, Chitown, LA, Houston, Philly, and DC could decide our presidents. For that matter, California and New York state plus Chitown and Philly could pick our presidents.

None of that makes a damn bit of sense. NOBODY but you strawman-parrots have suggested taking the vote away from rural areas. Ever.

Hey, I live in the deep sticks, and this area voted for Bernie in the primary. And I promise you, there ain't no urban areas anywhere near here -- you'd have to go well over a hundred miles -- as somebody in Winn Parish would .

Dude, where's my stereotype?

you don't deserve to have your vote not count just because you live in a low population state.

Such a state does not exist, and could not exist with a PV.

---- unless of course you're talking about Puerto Rico, in which case you have a foundation for a good argument. They are after all citizens.....

However ---- the very complaint you just articulated ---- votes not counting --- is exactly what the EC already does WITHIN states, and we mean big pop states, little pop states and everything in between. As I'm about to demonstrate for the 2648th time.....

The EC gives an electoral voice to the citizens of Alaska, Idaho, Mississippi, and Kansas.

Again ----- patently absurd.

What it does in those states ---- just as it does in New York and California and Massachusetts and Texas and Idaho and Hawaìi ---- is *nullify* the will of everybody who didn't vote the way their state will. It *removed* their incentive to vote at all. What the fuck is the point of voting if your state is already set to override your vote anyway? Do you vote for candidates that run unopposed? How stupid is that?

And again, it also removes the incentive for people who want to vote WITH the way their state does. Because again --- what's the point? It's already done. You have to be an idiot to not see that the EC system suppresses voter turnout. And suppressing votes is never a positive.

My sister, aunt and cousins live in Mississippi. They had no vote. They prolly voted different ways from each other, but it didn't matter --- they could have stayed home, voted the opposite, or voted as a bloc either way, and the net effect would have been the same --- nothing. Same goes for my brother and sis-in-law in Washington. And my cousin in Texas. And my friends in California. They have no voice --- their state already decided for them. Don't you GET that?

Sorry if you think it caused your terrible hildebeast to lose. That's just the way it is. BTW, the latest counts have Trump winning the popular vote as well as the EC-----------------------------------------------------Soooooooo, Hillary is a two time LOSER who may end up in jail. The system works.

Wrong on ALL counts. Again as stated over and over and over --- this is about how the Electrical College works and its effect --- not whatever recent election happened, the numbers of which you have completely whacked anyway. The topic was composed, verbatim, by Donald Rump, and it was set in 2012. And he was right. We're just here to explain why he was right. It's a topic that comes up every four years, in every election --- just as it did four years ago and will again four years hence --- because that's when the EC is in play. DUH.

 

[Pogo]

The electoral college seems to only be a problem when a republican wins...when bill the rapist won and barak the incompetent won.....no one had a problem....

Check the date on the Rump tweet that birthed this thread there, time traveller.

 

[Pogo]

And not only that, certain states like California are not fairly represented. California contains 30% of this country's population, but is only worth 55 electoral votes. It should be worth a lot more than that, so that's bullshit also.

Quick math sez:

GIVEN: California = 30% of population;
GIVEN: Total EC quantity = 538;
THEN 30% of 538 = 161.4 votes

That's within the framework of keeping the Electrical College system.

Sure you wanna go with this, Electricians?

 

[Pogo]

The electoral college seems to only be a problem when a republican wins...when bill the rapist won and barak the incompetent won.....no one had a problem....

Check the date on the Rump tweet that birthed this thread there, time traveller.

• “He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!”
• “More votes equals a loss … revolution!”

Pop quiz ---

Spoiler: Who's this Revolutionist I'm quoting?

Donald Trump, 2012, observing what he thought was the PV

 

[NYcarbineer]

She will likely win by more than 2 million votes. Not that it matters, as EC rules, except to repudiate the idea he has a strong mandate from the people.

If roles were reversed you know sure as shit we'd see Trump hip deep in lawsuits, on a mad non-stop twitter rampage -- and his supporters would be angrily freaking the hell out.

I remember back in 2000, before the election, when one of the speculations going around was that (ironically) Gore would LOSE the popular vote and win the electoral vote,

word got out that Limbaugh and that crowd were already planning to challenge Gore's legitimacy in that scenario.

 

[2aguy]

The electoral college seems to only be a problem when a republican wins...when bill the rapist won and barak the incompetent won.....no one had a problem....

Check the date on the Rump tweet that birthed this thread there, time traveller.

“He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!”
“More votes equals a loss … revolution!”

Pop quiz ---

Spoiler: Who's this Revolutionist I'm quoting?

Donald Trump, 2012, observing what he thought was the PV

Who cares? He won. Get over it.

 

[2aguy]

She will likely win by more than 2 million votes. Not that it matters, as EC rules, except to repudiate the idea he has a strong mandate from the people.

If roles were reversed you know sure as shit we'd see Trump hip deep in lawsuits, on a mad non-stop twitter rampage -- and his supporters would be angrily freaking the hell out.

I remember back in 2000, before the election, when one of the speculations going around was that (ironically) Gore would LOSE the popular vote and win the electoral vote,

word got out that Limbaugh and that crowd were already planning to challenge Gore's legitimacy in that scenario.

And then gore tried to steal the election in Florida......had he just won his home state...which he lost to Bush...he would have been President....

 

[deltex1]

Said Donald Trump in 2012.

I betcha he wishes he could take that one back.

So you think the weirdos on the west coast and northeast should call the shots for America? Fug dat....yo.

 

[Pogo]

She will likely win by more than 2 million votes. Not that it matters, as EC rules, except to repudiate the idea he has a strong mandate from the people.

If roles were reversed you know sure as shit we'd see Trump hip deep in lawsuits, on a mad non-stop twitter rampage -- and his supporters would be angrily freaking the hell out.

I remember back in 2000, before the election, when one of the speculations going around was that (ironically) Gore would LOSE the popular vote and win the electoral vote,

word got out that Limbaugh and that crowd were already planning to challenge Gore's legitimacy in that scenario.

And then gore tried to steal the election in Florida......had he just won his home state...which he lost to Bush...he would have been President....

"Home state" huh? "Home states" decide the Presidency now, Goober?

How'd the New York vote go? I wasn't paying attention.

And once again yet another example --- every New Yorker who voted for their state's candidate had their vote thrown out. Because Electoral College.

Voilà.

 

[Pogo]

The electoral college seems to only be a problem when a republican wins...when bill the rapist won and barak the incompetent won.....no one had a problem....

Check the date on the Rump tweet that birthed this thread there, time traveller.

“He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!”
“More votes equals a loss … revolution!”

Pop quiz ---

Spoiler: Who's this Revolutionist I'm quoting?

Donald Trump, 2012, observing what he thought was the PV

Who cares? He won. Get over it.

Who cares?
Anybody who's not a hypocrite, that's who. Don't worry --- it's not your concern.

 

[2aguy]

She will likely win by more than 2 million votes. Not that it matters, as EC rules, except to repudiate the idea he has a strong mandate from the people.

If roles were reversed you know sure as shit we'd see Trump hip deep in lawsuits, on a mad non-stop twitter rampage -- and his supporters would be angrily freaking the hell out.

I remember back in 2000, before the election, when one of the speculations going around was that (ironically) Gore would LOSE the popular vote and win the electoral vote,

word got out that Limbaugh and that crowd were already planning to challenge Gore's legitimacy in that scenario.

And then gore tried to steal the election in Florida......had he just won his home state...which he lost to Bush...he would have been President....

"Home state" huh? "Home states" decide the Presidency now, Goober?

How'd the New York vote go? I wasn't paying attention.

No asswipe...had he won his home state.....he wouldn't have lost by 500 votes, he would have won the entire thing......moron.

 

[2aguy]

The electoral college seems to only be a problem when a republican wins...when bill the rapist won and barak the incompetent won.....no one had a problem....

Check the date on the Rump tweet that birthed this thread there, time traveller.

“He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!”
“More votes equals a loss … revolution!”

Pop quiz ---

Spoiler: Who's this Revolutionist I'm quoting?

Donald Trump, 2012, observing what he thought was the PV

Who cares? He won. Get over it.

Who cares?
Anybody who's not a hypocrite, that's who. Don't worry --- it's not your concern.

Yep....Trump won....the witch lost....America was saved for a little while......liberal tears taste great....

 

[2aguy]

The electoral college seems to only be a problem when a republican wins...when bill the rapist won and barak the incompetent won.....no one had a problem....

Check the date on the Rump tweet that birthed this thread there, time traveller.

“He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!”
“More votes equals a loss … revolution!”

Pop quiz ---

Spoiler: Who's this Revolutionist I'm quoting?

Donald Trump, 2012, observing what he thought was the PV

Who cares? He won. Get over it.

Who cares?
Anybody who's not a hypocrite, that's who. Don't worry --- it's not your concern.

Bitch and moan all you want....you guys are saying that your team completed more passes than our team....and our team only had two touchdowns.........keep thinking like that......

 

[koshergrl]

He won the electoral and the popular vote. The media is lying about it. Because they know that if he isn't ousted, their days are numbered. He is already freezing the dumbasses out.

FINAL ELECTION 2016 NUMBERS: TRUMP WON BOTH POPULAR ( 62.9 M -62.2 M ) AND ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES ( 306-232)…HEY CHANGE.ORG, SCRAP YOUR LOONY PETITION NOW!

 

[Pogo]

She will likely win by more than 2 million votes. Not that it matters, as EC rules, except to repudiate the idea he has a strong mandate from the people.

If roles were reversed you know sure as shit we'd see Trump hip deep in lawsuits, on a mad non-stop twitter rampage -- and his supporters would be angrily freaking the hell out.

I remember back in 2000, before the election, when one of the speculations going around was that (ironically) Gore would LOSE the popular vote and win the electoral vote,

word got out that Limbaugh and that crowd were already planning to challenge Gore's legitimacy in that scenario.

And then gore tried to steal the election in Florida......had he just won his home state...which he lost to Bush...he would have been President....

"Home state" huh? "Home states" decide the Presidency now, Goober?

How'd the New York vote go? I wasn't paying attention.

And once again yet another example --- every New Yorker who voted for their state's candidate had their vote thrown out. Because Electoral College.

Voilà.

No asswipe...had he won his home state.....he wouldn't have lost by 500 votes, he would have won the entire thing......moron.

And once again yet another example --- every New Yorker who voted for their state's candidate had their vote thrown out. Because Electoral College.

Voilà.