The Emergency Room Myth

[PoliticalChic]

One of the many lies used to persuade that socialized medicine is beneficial is that "free-loaders" don't carry insurance, and simply trot on in to the Emergency Rooms for care....

....and then the rest of us have to pay their bill.

After all, the myth goes, the high costs of emergency room treatment is a huge drain on government funding.
Now....if we get everyone covered, it follows that medical costs will decrease.


Really?
This couldn't simply be another Liberal lie.....could it?





This from University of California, San Francisco:


1. "More adults in California are flocking to emergency rooms,....

2. ...those on Medicaid who are using ERs at a faster rate than the uninsured or privately insured, according to new UC San Francisco research.

3. ....findings could reflect a nationwide trend under the Affordable Care Act.

4. ...Medicaid patients have higher rates of ER use, as the study found





5. The study investigated trends in the association between insurance coverage and usage of emergency departments among adults ages 18 to 64.

6. All the findings suggest that emergency department use may actually increase with health care reform, instead of decline....





7. While uninsured patients often have been singled out for inappropriate overuse of the ER, the analysis found that ER usage during the study time frame actually grew fastest among Medicaid beneficiaries, the federal program for people with low incomes.

8. ...Medicaid patients consistently had the highest rate of visits for potentially preventable conditions,...."
Surging Medicaid Use in California?s Emergency Rooms | ucsf.edu





Another reason for ObamaCare down the drain.


As the CBO states that 36 million will remain uninsured, file both 'promises' in the circular file.

and this trend will only continue, because as our healthcare becomes more socialized it will be toughter to schedule an appointment with a doctor. lead times will become longer so people will flock to the ER for faster service

The evidence supports exactly what you wrote.


"50 days to see a doctor in Boston…Is Massachusetts’ universal coverage laws the cause?
June 9, 2009 in Current Events, Health Insurance, Supply of Medical Services, Wait Times
From the USA Today, here are the wait times to see a doctor in the following cities:
• Boston: 49.6
• Philadelphia: 27
• Los Angeles: 24.2
• Houston: 23.4
• Washington, D.C.: 22.6
• San Diego 20.2
• Minneapolis: 19.8
• Dallas: 19.2
• New York: 19.2
• Denver: 15.4 days
• Miami: 15.4 days
The first thing that jumps out from these numbers is that Boston has by far the longest wait to see a doctor. Is this caused by the universal health coverage enacted in Massachusetts? The answer is maybe. Physician supply adjusts slowly (i.e., it takes a long time to finish med school). On the other hand, Massachusetts decision to increase insurance coverage lead to a spike in the demand for medical services. Thus, universal health care may have caused the run up in wait times, …"
50 days to see a doctor in Boston?Is Massachusetts? universal coverage laws the cause? « Healthcare Economist

 

[Boatswain2PA]

The Single Payer system would absolutely mean there were less visits to the ER. Tell me what state has the standard for that...

And what makes you think that? Do you have any understanding of EMTALA? A single payer system, where the patient has no connection with the cost of his/her care at all, would SIGNIFICANTLY increase the visit load to the ER. Why wait a week (or two, or three, or six) to get in to your primary care physician for your viral head-cold when you can walk into the local ED at your own convenience?

And while you are there, you might as well bring all three kids with you because little Johnny has a runny nose, and Susie coughed last week, and Mary had a fever of 99 degrees last night.

There are two ways of reducing unnecessary ED usage. #1) Change EMTALA, and #2) institute a co-payment for those already on the single-payer system (Medicaid).

I RARELY see unnecessary ED usage by cash pay people. They are going to get stuck with the bill which, if they don't pay, will kill their credit. Some people don't care, but most do. The sad thing I see is the cash pay people who wait to come in because they don't have coverage, and their disease process is well advanced. Worse yet, they gotta have significant therapies. Fortunately one of the tertiary hospital systems in my area is a Catholic based hospital that gives out tens of millions of dollars in free care every year to people like this.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

As people are educated on how to use insurance and gain primary care doctors, the (ER) use will drop.

How could it not?

And the Massachusetts' use of ERs dropped over time as people were covered, in the system, educated, and gained primary care physicians.

How could then not?

ER use won't drop, because many (in some area's, most) PC doc's are not taking Medicaid/ACA policies due to the low reimbursement rates. This forces them into the residency-clinics which are having increasing wait times for not only initial appointments, but also follow up appointments.

I have not seen any statistics that show Mass ER usage has reduced. Can you provide?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Charity cases are a strain on the private hospital....... These strains are one of the reason why they lobbied so hard for the ACA, so they would be paid for hospital losses.

They've also had to close trauma centers and burn centers.

Sorry but even the lazy rw's have to pay their own way now.

Illegals, OTOH, will still get their care, live births and abortions covered for free by EMTALA - aka - American ta payers. You can send your thank you notes to Ronnie (The Socialist) Ray-Gun.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

People will be forced into the ER because they won't be able to find a doctor that accepts obamacare.

WHEN are you gonna get it through your thick head that you cannot buy ObamaCare and doctors cannot accept or deny ObamaCare?

Blithering idiot.

 

[AntiParty]

The Single Payer system would absolutely mean there were less visits to the ER. Tell me what state has the standard for that...

And what makes you think that? Do you have any understanding of EMTALA? A single payer system, where the patient has no connection with the cost of his/her care at all, would SIGNIFICANTLY increase the visit load to the ER. Why wait a week (or two, or three, or six) to get in to your primary care physician for your viral head-cold when you can walk into the local ED at your own convenience?

And while you are there, you might as well bring all three kids with you because little Johnny has a runny nose, and Susie coughed last week, and Mary had a fever of 99 degrees last night.

There are two ways of reducing unnecessary ED usage. #1) Change EMTALA, and #2) institute a co-payment for those already on the single-payer system (Medicaid).

I RARELY see unnecessary ED usage by cash pay people. They are going to get stuck with the bill which, if they don't pay, will kill their credit. Some people don't care, but most do. The sad thing I see is the cash pay people who wait to come in because they don't have coverage, and their disease process is well advanced. Worse yet, they gotta have significant therapies. Fortunately one of the tertiary hospital systems in my area is a Catholic based hospital that gives out tens of millions of dollars in free care every year to people like this.

I'm trying to keep a straight face but have you ever been to the ER? Have you seen the workers reaction to your "emergency"?

Look, maybe it's different by state or area. But when I go to the Doctors office it costs less and the wait is less than the ER. I generally get IN AND OUT of my doctors visits faster than any ER visit's I've been a part of. Because the ER workers don't know someone with a real emergency from someone with a snotty nose...

 

[Katzndogz]

First you have to find a doctor that participates. Unless you plan on federalizing all doctors as federal employees the ER will still have to take the headaches and hang nails.

 

[Katzndogz]

When I have a routine matter that needs quick action like when I had pneumonia, I didn't wait in an ER. I went to an urgent care clinic. Like doctors they don't take medicaid either. Nor do they take MediCal. Have top insurance or pay. I paid.

 

[Moonglow]

The Single Payer system would absolutely mean there were less visits to the ER. Tell me what state has the standard for that...

And what makes you think that? Do you have any understanding of EMTALA? A single payer system, where the patient has no connection with the cost of his/her care at all, would SIGNIFICANTLY increase the visit load to the ER. Why wait a week (or two, or three, or six) to get in to your primary care physician for your viral head-cold when you can walk into the local ED at your own convenience?

And while you are there, you might as well bring all three kids with you because little Johnny has a runny nose, and Susie coughed last week, and Mary had a fever of 99 degrees last night.

There are two ways of reducing unnecessary ED usage. #1) Change EMTALA, and #2) institute a co-payment for those already on the single-payer system (Medicaid).

I RARELY see unnecessary ED usage by cash pay people. They are going to get stuck with the bill which, if they don't pay, will kill their credit. Some people don't care, but most do. The sad thing I see is the cash pay people who wait to come in because they don't have coverage, and their disease process is well advanced. Worse yet, they gotta have significant therapies. Fortunately one of the tertiary hospital systems in my area is a Catholic based hospital that gives out tens of millions of dollars in free care every year to people like this.

I'm trying to keep a straight face but have you ever been to the ER? Have you seen the workers reaction to your "emergency"?

Look, maybe it's different by state or area. But when I go to the Doctors office it costs less and the wait is less than the ER. I generally get IN AND OUT of my doctors visits faster than any ER visit's I've been a part of. Because the ER workers don't know someone with a real emergency from someone with a snotty nose...

You must live in a very uneducated area, here in NW Ark/SW Missouri I was having problems and they admitted me right away, after a 20 minute wait in one of the rooms they found out my appendix was about to blurst all over my body.. They did a great job...So does the VA I go to in Fayetteville , Ark. they are better than any private medical care provided by private companies...The Hospital I went to was St. Mary's, run by nuns....

 

[Moonglow]

When I have a routine matter that needs quick action like when I had pneumonia, I didn't wait in an ER. I went to an urgent care clinic. Like doctors they don't take medicaid either. Nor do they take MediCal. Have top insurance or pay. I paid.

pneumonia is not a routine matter, it is a death inducing infection....

 

[Katzndogz]

When I have a routine matter that needs quick action like when I had pneumonia, I didn't wait in an ER. I went to an urgent care clinic. Like doctors they don't take medicaid either. Nor do they take MediCal. Have top insurance or pay. I paid.

pneumonia is not a routine matter, it is a death inducing infection....

That is why I did not make an appointment with the doctor but went to urgent care where they could perform tests and take xrays. I wasn't about to sit for a couple of days in a California emergency room.

Doctors and urgent care centers do not take government provided insurance. It's pretty much not true that single payer means that those who think they are insured will go to doctors instead of using the ER.

 

[Tresha91203]

The Single Payer system would absolutely mean there were less visits to the ER. Tell me what state has the standard for that...

And what makes you think that? Do you have any understanding of EMTALA? A single payer system, where the patient has no connection with the cost of his/her care at all, would SIGNIFICANTLY increase the visit load to the ER. Why wait a week (or two, or three, or six) to get in to your primary care physician for your viral head-cold when you can walk into the local ED at your own convenience?

And while you are there, you might as well bring all three kids with you because little Johnny has a runny nose, and Susie coughed last week, and Mary had a fever of 99 degrees last night.

There are two ways of reducing unnecessary ED usage. #1) Change EMTALA, and #2) institute a co-payment for those already on the single-payer system (Medicaid).

I RARELY see unnecessary ED usage by cash pay people. They are going to get stuck with the bill which, if they don't pay, will kill their credit. Some people don't care, but most do. The sad thing I see is the cash pay people who wait to come in because they don't have coverage, and their disease process is well advanced. Worse yet, they gotta have significant therapies. Fortunately one of the tertiary hospital systems in my area is a Catholic based hospital that gives out tens of millions of dollars in free care every year to people like this.

This. The Catholic hospitals in Louisiana give a lot of free care. We also have Charity Hospitals (although the one in New Orleans has yet to be rebuilt after Katrina ... they are still deciding where to put it ... meaning some politician hasn't gotten a high enough price yet).

 

[AntiParty]

When I have a routine matter that needs quick action like when I had pneumonia, I didn't wait in an ER. I went to an urgent care clinic. Like doctors they don't take medicaid either. Nor do they take MediCal. Have top insurance or pay. I paid.

It's the cheaper, smarter thing to do.

Don't want to get in line with all the people with a common cold.

 

[AntiParty]

And what makes you think that? Do you have any understanding of EMTALA? A single payer system, where the patient has no connection with the cost of his/her care at all, would SIGNIFICANTLY increase the visit load to the ER. Why wait a week (or two, or three, or six) to get in to your primary care physician for your viral head-cold when you can walk into the local ED at your own convenience?

And while you are there, you might as well bring all three kids with you because little Johnny has a runny nose, and Susie coughed last week, and Mary had a fever of 99 degrees last night.

There are two ways of reducing unnecessary ED usage. #1) Change EMTALA, and #2) institute a co-payment for those already on the single-payer system (Medicaid).

I RARELY see unnecessary ED usage by cash pay people. They are going to get stuck with the bill which, if they don't pay, will kill their credit. Some people don't care, but most do. The sad thing I see is the cash pay people who wait to come in because they don't have coverage, and their disease process is well advanced. Worse yet, they gotta have significant therapies. Fortunately one of the tertiary hospital systems in my area is a Catholic based hospital that gives out tens of millions of dollars in free care every year to people like this.

I'm trying to keep a straight face but have you ever been to the ER? Have you seen the workers reaction to your "emergency"?

Look, maybe it's different by state or area. But when I go to the Doctors office it costs less and the wait is less than the ER. I generally get IN AND OUT of my doctors visits faster than any ER visit's I've been a part of. Because the ER workers don't know someone with a real emergency from someone with a snotty nose...

You must live in a very uneducated area, here in NW Ark/SW Missouri I was having problems and they admitted me right away, after a 20 minute wait in one of the rooms they found out my appendix was about to blurst all over my body.. They did a great job...So does the VA I go to in Fayetteville , Ark. they are better than any private medical care provided by private companies...The Hospital I went to was St. Mary's, run by nuns....

I don't like to give out my location but yes, I live in a VERY uneducated area. *knuckles*

I plan to break that trend with information.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

I'm trying to keep a straight face but have you ever been to the ER? Have you seen the workers reaction to your "emergency"?

Look, maybe it's different by state or area. But when I go to the Doctors office it costs less and the wait is less than the ER. I generally get IN AND OUT of my doctors visits faster than any ER visit's I've been a part of. Because the ER workers don't know someone with a real emergency from someone with a snotty nose...

Yup, I have seen an ER. I pull about 12-14 shifts a month practicing emergency medicine. I see the scenario I described on every shift.

And, according to my colleagues, its the same everywhere.

 

[AntiParty]

I'm trying to keep a straight face but have you ever been to the ER? Have you seen the workers reaction to your "emergency"?

Look, maybe it's different by state or area. But when I go to the Doctors office it costs less and the wait is less than the ER. I generally get IN AND OUT of my doctors visits faster than any ER visit's I've been a part of. Because the ER workers don't know someone with a real emergency from someone with a snotty nose...

Yup, I have seen an ER. I pull about 12-14 shifts a month practicing emergency medicine. I see the scenario I described on every shift.

And, according to my colleagues, its the same everywhere.

I'm confused. You have seen the scenario but don't know why?!!!

Are you just shooting at the dark as to why the ER is flooded with non-emergency cases?

 

[AntiParty]

I stated that last statement as rhetorical because I actually know why. Doctors are the 1% that want to stay the 1%. They tell the Nurses what they need to hear to keep them from expecting better pay. And the Nurses just take it.

After all, the doctor does all the work. (R)ight?

 

[Boatswain2PA]

I'm trying to keep a straight face but have you ever been to the ER? Have you seen the workers reaction to your "emergency"?

Look, maybe it's different by state or area. But when I go to the Doctors office it costs less and the wait is less than the ER. I generally get IN AND OUT of my doctors visits faster than any ER visit's I've been a part of. Because the ER workers don't know someone with a real emergency from someone with a snotty nose...

Yup, I have seen an ER. I pull about 12-14 shifts a month practicing emergency medicine. I see the scenario I described on every shift.

And, according to my colleagues, its the same everywhere.

I'm confused. You have seen the scenario but don't know why?!!!

Are you just shooting at the dark as to why the ER is flooded with non-emergency cases?

Yes, you are confused. I, and every other ER provider, know why we have so many non-emergency cases. #1) EMTALA, and #2) people who get free (to them) care.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

I stated that last statement as rhetorical because I actually know why. Doctors are the 1% that want to stay the 1%. They tell the Nurses what they need to hear to keep them from expecting better pay. And the Nurses just take it.

After all, the doctor does all the work. (R)ight?

I respect my nurses, techs, and all other members of my staff, but they are not the ones who intubate, insert chest tubes, order medications that can heal or harm, diagnose the disease....or tell the family their loved one has died.

To say Docs are the 1% is wrong. That level belongs almost exclusively to lawyers.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

People will be forced into the ER because they won't be able to find a doctor that accepts obamacare.

WHEN are you gonna get it through your thick head that you cannot buy ObamaCare and doctors cannot accept or deny ObamaCare?

Blithering idiot.

I think they have fixed the problem with the website so folks can buy obamacare now. Of course, the administration apparently can't figure out how many people have paid yet....

YES, doc's can refuse to accept obamacare. The low reimbursement rates under many Obamacare policies are forcing many docs to forego accepting these policies (just like Medicaid).

Blither indeed....but that is the straight scoop.