The FACTS on Food Stamps

[High_Gravity]

[MENTION=33739]Billy000[/MENTION]

filet mignon..... the question on the table for a fact check is filet magnon. Can you buy filet mignon with snap?

You could but the thing is you have to stretch your food stamps out for the whole months, if you go into the store and buy Lobster, crab etc your money will not last very long.

 

[Bumberclyde]

Instead of giving people stamps, why don't they just give them food?

 

[Immanuel]

Once again a massive over simplification. Why can't you guys understand that nothing is simple? There is no blanket explanation as to why people need welfare. If you think they are all moochers then you aren't giving the subject nearly as much thought as you should.
We can all agree that economically the US is in trouble. Why is it so hard to believe that there are people who do need help? People who really do need outside help before they can help themselves. There is no evidence to suggest that our welfare system is designed to keep people dependent. Some people get away with mooching sure, but those individuals are keeping you from accepting the facts about the system.

Why? Because Obama and his Democrat goons keep telling us everything is "peachy-keen".

No evidence? Ever see a Democrat in Washington do something to lift someone out of "public assistance"? No? Didn't think so. The moochers don't need or want help getting off public assistance. In fact, they would refuse it if offered. They are there by choice stealing from the rest of us.

The needy on the other hand are thrown scraps and left to suffer in the grasp of the liberals who keep telling them that Republicans want to take food away from their children. Vote for Republicans at your own peril they are told.

Well here is a fact that should be pretty damned evident. Just like abortion, affirmative action, social security and all the other progressive enslavement programs, when Republicans had control of the government they did nothing, I repeat nothing, at all to change things just as they won't with Obamacare if they get the opportunity. Democrats and Republicans are not very different at all. The one major difference between the two is which right they want to take from us first.

Immie

Okay answer me this question and really give it some thought. Why are you so convinced that welfare mooching is such a wide spread problem? Where is the evidence? There is anecdotal evidence that mooching really is an issue, but what is the evidence that it is an actual crisis? Where are the numbers that show us we need to make serious conservative changes in our system? The statistical evidence in my thread shows that it isn't a crisis. Those anecdotal, individual cases that say otherwise simply tells us that some times people get away with mooching. Those people figured out how to play the system. Fortunately, the numbers show us those people are not very common.

Let me give you the numbers one more time:

The average household that receives SNAP has an average gross income of $744 a MONTH. The average SNAP recipient receives $133 a MONTH which is less than $1.50 a meal.

So based on those numbers, why are you so convinced that food stamps mooching is a crisis? Where are your numbers? Anecdotal evidence of mooching only shows us that mooching itself happens. It does not show us that mooching is an actual crisis.

Look I don't buy into everything liberals/democrats say. For instance I agree with cons/repubs who say many on the left sugar coat the race issue. What politics comes down to is the numbers. The numbers show us that both the right and the left get it wrong. Nothing is black and white. Both ends of the political spectrum kid themselves into believing things that are not true.

EDIT: forgive the redundancy of the writing in my post. I'm trying to drive a point home.

Please answer me this question first.

Where did I once state it was a wide spread problem? I gave no indication on what percentage of people on the plan I thought are "moochers". As indicated in an earlier post I stated to Syrenn that I felt it was a small percentage. Regardless, those who are abusing the system are not going give up what they steal on a monthly basis. Those who are needy are not being helped to escape.

So please do not try to put words in my mouth.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Okay answer me this question and really give it some thought. Why are you so convinced that welfare mooching is such a wide spread problem? Where is the evidence? There is anecdotal evidence that mooching really is an issue, but what is the evidence that it is an actual crisis? Where are the numbers that show us we need to make serious conservative changes in our system? The statistical evidence in my thread shows that it isn't a crisis. Those anecdotal, individual cases that say otherwise simply tells us that some times people get away with mooching. Those people figured out how to play the system. Fortunately, the numbers show us those people are not very common.

Let me give you the numbers one more time:

The average household that receives SNAP has an average gross income of $744 a MONTH. The average SNAP recipient receives $133 a MONTH which is less than $1.50 a meal.

So based on those numbers, why are you so convinced that food stamps mooching is a crisis? Where are your numbers? Anecdotal evidence of mooching only shows us that mooching itself happens. It does not show us that mooching is an actual crisis.

Look I don't buy into everything liberals/democrats say. For instance I agree with cons/repubs who say many on the left sugar coat the race issue. What politics comes down to is the numbers. The numbers show us that both the right and the left get it wrong. Nothing is black and white. Both ends of the political spectrum kid themselves into believing things that are not true.

EDIT: forgive the redundancy of the writing in my post. I'm trying to drive a point home.

You still don't get it.

The fraud that is known exposes devastating flaws in the controls in the programs. You want to call the known fraud "minor," but then don't consider that over $100 in free steak and lobster bought by a guy with rich parents is not considered fraudulent by administrators. The anecdotal evidence I posted about a case I reported (the one where a former employee of mine bragged about wearing a Rolex to the hearing) was deemed to be 100% legal by investigators.

Why do I think mooching is so widespread? Because the system is so easily gamed and the definitions of fraud are VERY loose. If the system had proper controls there would be ZERO allowed purchases of porterhouse steaks on EBT. There would be ZERO instances of $1 bananas being bought across the street from a store where they sell bananas for 50¢ per pound.

ALL of that is legal, not considered fraud, but is most definitely fraudulent.

What so because the system isn't perfect that means the whole thing is a sham? Is that really what you believe?

Not only do the stats prove that mooching isn't wide spread, but there really isn't much incentive to do it. Okay so a guy with an official reported shitty income is receiving both SNAP and expensive gifts and money from his parents, right? Why would a guy bother going through the rigourous process of receiving only $133 a month when his rich parents are fiddling him? While your anecdotal story may be true about this Rolex guy, there is no reason to believe many people in the same situation would do the same thing if all they would get is peanuts. That story of yours is completely atypical.

Also, because recipients do get peanuts, why the fuck do you even care if people blow all of their SNAP on steak? If they buy goddamn steaks, they wouldn't be able to buy much else now would they? It doesn't fucking matter what these people buy as long as they get the same amount of money each month which is less than $1.50 a meal!

You seem to be pretty good at putting words in people's mouths.

Who in this thread has stated it was a sham? Why is it that liberals cannot deal with reforms of their failed programs? Reform does not mean elimination. It means improvement.

Note: after I wrote this I see Asterism's "scrapped and replaced" comment. You might claim he is calling for elimination. By his calling for a replacement, I will argue with you on that.

Immie

 

[syrenn]

[MENTION=33739]Billy000[/MENTION]

filet mignon..... the question on the table for a fact check is filet magnon. Can you buy filet mignon with snap?

You could but the thing is you have to stretch your food stamps out for the whole months, if you go into the store and buy Lobster, crab etc your money will not last very long.

that is not the point, the point is if you CAN buy it if you want to...... blow the whole thing on one night and starve the rest of the month.

and then of course cry that you dont have enough in food stamps and are starving.

 

[Spoonman]

[MENTION=33739]Billy000[/MENTION]

filet mignon..... the question on the table for a fact check is filet magnon. Can you buy filet mignon with snap?

You could but the thing is you have to stretch your food stamps out for the whole months, if you go into the store and buy Lobster, crab etc your money will not last very long.

that is not the point, the point is if you CAN buy it if you want to...... blow the whole thing on one night and starve the rest of the month.

and then of course cry that you dont have enough in food stamps and are starving.

you can buy it. you can buy lobster too. you are not limited to what kind of food you buy. another big problem they have is families that qualify for food stamps get them but don't always use them. they sell them and use the cash to buy things food stamps can't.

 

[High_Gravity]

[MENTION=33739]Billy000[/MENTION]

filet mignon..... the question on the table for a fact check is filet magnon. Can you buy filet mignon with snap?

You could but the thing is you have to stretch your food stamps out for the whole months, if you go into the store and buy Lobster, crab etc your money will not last very long.

that is not the point, the point is if you CAN buy it if you want to...... blow the whole thing on one night and starve the rest of the month.

and then of course cry that you dont have enough in food stamps and are starving.

You could, most of the people I've seen down here just buy alot of junk food in bulk, microwave pizzas, corn dogs, etc.

 

[Spoonman]

You could but the thing is you have to stretch your food stamps out for the whole months, if you go into the store and buy Lobster, crab etc your money will not last very long.

that is not the point, the point is if you CAN buy it if you want to...... blow the whole thing on one night and starve the rest of the month.

and then of course cry that you dont have enough in food stamps and are starving.

You could, most of the people I've seen down here just buy alot of junk food in bulk, microwave pizzas, corn dogs, etc.

see, thats what pisses me off. we pay farmers not to grow because we don't want to flood the market with food and lower the prices. well we should have those farmers grow and that food should only be available for food stamp use. and it should be made available at a non marked up cost so the food stamp dollar goes farther. you get better quality, healthier food, and more of it

 

[syrenn]

You could but the thing is you have to stretch your food stamps out for the whole months, if you go into the store and buy Lobster, crab etc your money will not last very long.

that is not the point, the point is if you CAN buy it if you want to...... blow the whole thing on one night and starve the rest of the month.

and then of course cry that you dont have enough in food stamps and are starving.

You could, most of the people I've seen down here just buy alot of junk food in bulk, microwave pizzas, corn dogs, etc.

agreed.... and in my opinion all of that junk should not be allowed to purchase with food stamps.....

 

[KissMy]

You could but the thing is you have to stretch your food stamps out for the whole months, if you go into the store and buy Lobster, crab etc your money will not last very long.

that is not the point, the point is if you CAN buy it if you want to...... blow the whole thing on one night and starve the rest of the month.

and then of course cry that you dont have enough in food stamps and are starving.

you can buy it. you can buy lobster too. you are not limited to what kind of food you buy. another big problem they have is families that qualify for food stamps get them but don't always use them. they sell them and use the cash to buy things food stamps can't.

They can pull off a small bit of petty fraud that hurts them worse than us. It's nothing in the grand scheme of government corruption. An owner of a defunct company accused of bilking the Defense Department out of more than $20 million, including charging nearly $1 million to ship two 19-cent washers. She was only caught by accident. Medicare fraud is almost as bad as military fraud.

 

[Camp]

I liked the old system they had before food stamps. Gov't bought up surplus food from small farmers. That kept lots of small family farms in business. Folks would have to stand in line once a month at local schools, Nat. Gaurd Armorys, etc. and get what was handed out. Blocks of cheese, jars of peanut butter, bags of rice, bags of beans, lots of powered milk, cooking oil and whatever the gov't had available for distribution that month. Person had to need some food to be willing to stand in line for an hour in the sun, rain, snow, whatever. Kind of weeded out the abusers.

 

[Billy000]

You still don't get it.

The fraud that is known exposes devastating flaws in the controls in the programs. You want to call the known fraud "minor," but then don't consider that over $100 in free steak and lobster bought by a guy with rich parents is not considered fraudulent by administrators. The anecdotal evidence I posted about a case I reported (the one where a former employee of mine bragged about wearing a Rolex to the hearing) was deemed to be 100% legal by investigators.

Why do I think mooching is so widespread? Because the system is so easily gamed and the definitions of fraud are VERY loose. If the system had proper controls there would be ZERO allowed purchases of porterhouse steaks on EBT. There would be ZERO instances of $1 bananas being bought across the street from a store where they sell bananas for 50¢ per pound.

ALL of that is legal, not considered fraud, but is most definitely fraudulent.

What so because the system isn't perfect that means the whole thing is a sham? Is that really what you believe?

Not only do the stats prove that mooching isn't wide spread, but there really isn't much incentive to do it. Okay so a guy with an official reported shitty income is receiving both SNAP and expensive gifts and money from his parents, right? Why would a guy bother going through the rigourous process of receiving only $133 a month when his rich parents are fiddling him? While your anecdotal story may be true about this Rolex guy, there is no reason to believe many people in the same situation would do the same thing if all they would get is peanuts. That story of yours is completely atypical.

Also, because recipients do get peanuts, why the fuck do you even care if people blow all of their SNAP on steak? If they buy goddamn steaks, they wouldn't be able to buy much else now would they? It doesn't fucking matter what these people buy as long as they get the same amount of money each month which is less than $1.50 a meal!

You seem to be pretty good at putting words in people's mouths.

Who in this thread has stated it was a sham? Why is it that liberals cannot deal with reforms of their failed programs? Reform does not mean elimination. It means improvement.

Note: after I wrote this I see Asterism's "scrapped and replaced" comment. You might claim he is calling for elimination. By his calling for a replacement, I will argue with you on that.

Immie

Now, if you don't think mooching is a wide spread problem, then what makes a failed program? What is your point?

Don't be stupid. Just because he didn't use the word sham that doesn't mean that isn't what he meant.

K then douche. How do we reform the program?

 

[asterism]

Easy reforms that can be implemented now:

1. Reduce the benefit amounts to reduce waste. A family of 6 can eat well on $600 per month where I live. The benefit for a family of 6 with no income is $952. That's too high, especially when most families on food stamps also get free lunches for the kids at school.

2. Reduce the eligibility to those truly in need. Consider the income of the household, not just that of the unmarried "single mom" living with her long term boyfriend who makes enough to provide for them. No professionals using food stamps as a way to subsidize graduate school. No alcoholics that live in Mom's trailer and nobody who rents out their house while living rent free with someone else.

3. Audit lifestyles. If you have $80 nails, a $200 weave, drive a new car, buy food with EBT and lottery tickets with cash, you don't need assistance. If you drive your father's BMW regularly, park it at your house most days and wear your boyfriend's Rolex, you don't need assistance.

4. Allow basic foods only using the UMC codes on every product. Salt is fine, Western Mediterranean sea salt is not. Round steak on sale is fine. Porterhouse and NY Strip are not. Milk is fine. Häagen-Dazs is not. No soda, no coffee, no tea, no energy drinks, no "natural flavor drinks made with juice." Those are not food, nor are they necessary. No frozen dinners, no prepared food.

5. Reduce or end aid if someone on SNAP is obese. Assistance is provided to keep someone from starving and if you're obese, you aren't starving.

6. Don't authorize a high priced food source that is within easy walking distance from a reasonably priced source. There is no need to pay $1.00 for a single banana at a gas station when you can buy them for 69¢ a pound across the street (which means that banana costs 30¢). You're on public assistance, you should not pay for convenience. That $4 bagel with cream cheese costs 53¢ if you buy a package of 6 bagels and a tub of cream cheese at the grocery store. However, convenience stores should be authorized if there are no other lower cost options nearby.

7. Screen for bulk items. It's okay to buy 500 hot dogs. It's not okay to buy 500 hot dogs every week during baseball season.

8. Anybody caught defrauding the program is cut off. First for a month, second for a year, and third a lifetime ban.

9. Check IDs with EBT cards. They can't be sold if nobody else can use them.

10. Increase rollover balances to 3 months. If you don't need it, there's no reason to have it. However if you buy in bulk and/or sale items you don't need now but will that should be accommodated.

 

[Billy000]

Easy reforms that can be implemented now:

1. Reduce the benefit amounts to reduce waste. A family of 6 can eat well on $600 per month where I live. The benefit for a family of 6 with no income is $952. That's too high, especially when most families on food stamps also get free lunches for the kids at school.

2. Reduce the eligibility to those truly in need. Consider the income of the household, not just that of the unmarried "single mom" living with her long term boyfriend who makes enough to provide for them. No professionals using food stamps as a way to subsidize graduate school. No alcoholics that live in Mom's trailer and nobody who rents out their house while living rent free with someone else.

3. Audit lifestyles. If you have $80 nails, a $200 weave, drive a new car, buy food with EBT and lottery tickets with cash, you don't need assistance. If you drive your father's BMW regularly, park it at your house most days and wear your boyfriend's Rolex, you don't need assistance.

4. Allow basic foods only using the UMC codes on every product. Salt is fine, Western Mediterranean sea salt is not. Round steak on sale is fine. Porterhouse and NY Strip are not. Milk is fine. Häagen-Dazs is not. No soda, no coffee, no tea, no energy drinks, no "natural flavor drinks made with juice." Those are not food, nor are they necessary. No frozen dinners, no prepared food.

5. Reduce or end aid if someone on SNAP is obese. Assistance is provided to keep someone from starving and if you're obese, you aren't starving.

6. Don't authorize a high priced food source that is within easy walking distance from a reasonably priced source. There is no need to pay $1.00 for a single banana at a gas station when you can buy them for 69¢ a pound across the street (which means that banana costs 30¢). You're on public assistance, you should not pay for convenience. That $4 bagel with cream cheese costs 53¢ if you buy a package of 6 bagels and a tub of cream cheese at the grocery store. However, convenience stores should be authorized if there are no other lower cost options nearby.

7. Screen for bulk items. It's okay to buy 500 hot dogs. It's not okay to buy 500 hot dogs every week during baseball season.

8. Anybody caught defrauding the program is cut off. First for a month, second for a year, and third a lifetime ban.

9. Check IDs with EBT cards. They can't be sold if nobody else can use them.

10. Increase rollover balances to 3 months. If you don't need it, there's no reason to have it. However if you buy in bulk and/or sale items you don't need now but will that should be accommodated.

It just astounds me how dumb and willfully ignorant you are. I've met some whoppers on this forum, but you are just unbelievable.

1. No, a family of 6 cannot eat well with 952.00 a month. Why? Because that 952 has to cover all of their expenses, not just food, jackass. Maybe you can squeak by if you bought the dollar menu from McDonald's everyday, but that's not an ideal diet for a child now is it?

2. The income of the entire household is considered. For Christ's sakes, I've been saying that over and over. It says it in my sources. Do you just choose not to read what I put? It doesn't matter who is living in the house or how they are all related to each other. It is the gross income of the household. Period.

3. Audit lifestyles? Are you kidding me? Are you not a conservative who believes in the value of keeping one's privacy from the government? Talk about double standard. Once again it doesn't fucking matter what these people buy every month if they get the same amount every month. If these people want to buy stupid things with their money, that is their problem. It is their own stupidity. It's not like they can buy a bunch of expensive crap anyway.

4. Same point as 3. And No frozen dinners? Are you kidding me? Those are the one reliably cheap product there is. True, it could be more nutritious, but it is a reliable source for protein at least and its still worlds better than fast food.

5. People are obese for more reasons than self control. What if they have a thyroid issue or an unusually slow metabolism. Another contributing factor is that they are not being smart about what they are buying. If anything, educate them on a proper diet.

6. Once again, people learn quickly. If they are getting nothing but peanuts, they realize early on they need to be economical.

7. NONE OF THEM COULD POSSIBLY AFFORD TO BUY 500 HOTDOGS A WEEK.

8. There already are proper consequences when fraud is discovered and once again, it is rare.

9. That is the only intelligent thing you have said thus far. Chances are, markets do it anyway.

10. Based on what they get, a roll over policy is completley fair.

You are something else, dude.

EDIT: it also needs to be said that one of the food restrictions is hot food, so they couldn't buy something like fast food.

 

[syrenn]

EDIT: it also needs to be said that one of the food restrictions is hot food, so they couldn't buy something like fast food.

I tell ya, for someone who is here to present the "facts" about food stamps..... you dont know much or very many facts.

yes indeed you can purchase hot food....and yes indeed you can use snap at you favorite fast food junk spot.

Food stamps - known more formally as the USDA’s Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program - have been in use for grocery staples, such as bread and milk, since 1934, but now, for the first time, they can be used for fast food in four states across the country.

Fast Food Chains Getting Into the Food Stamp Act - ABC News

 

[Billy000]

EDIT: it also needs to be said that one of the food restrictions is hot food, so they couldn't buy something like fast food.

I tell ya, for someone who is here to present the "facts" about food stamps..... you dont know much or very many facts.

yes indeed you can purchase hot food....and yes indeed you can use snap at you favorite fast food junk spot.

Food stamps - known more formally as the USDA’s Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program - have been in use for grocery staples, such as bread and milk, since 1934, but now, for the first time, they can be used for fast food in four states across the country.

Fast Food Chains Getting Into the Food Stamp Act - ABC News

Fair enough fast food is an exception in FOUR states, however it still says in black and white on the Dept. of Agriculture's website that hot foods are ineligible. Don't believe me? Go look for yourself.

 

[koshergrl]

Yes, but you would have to be a complete idiot. It's pretty hard to ignore a basic need like hunger. Recipients learn quickly to play it smart.

Both sides over blow the food stamps issue. It's called food assistance not food providing. Meaning it's supposed to help your food costs not cover it completely.

The amount it pays now covers so little because of inflation it's ridiculous, but that's the intent. Help with the cost, but don't cover it.

What makes me sick is when you see illegals that don't speak a lick of English getting food stamps or people buying liquor, cigarettes in cash and then using the link card! Just the other day, this woman was buying all kinds of groceries on the link card and then bought a pack of cigarettes and a bottle of Hennessy! I just saw something wrong with that!

You're wrong about illegals. It is a myth that illegals get SNAP. Go to the Dept. of Agriculture's website. It specifically says in black and white that illegals are ineligible for SNAP.

You're also wrong about alcohol. Recipients of SNAP cannot buy alcohol or tobacco with government funds.

But their children and all their other relatives can get it.

Recipients of Snap certainly can purchase alcohol or tobacco with government funds, i.e., TANF or cash assistance. You bet they can, and do. And the funds go onto their ebt card, along with their foodstamps.

 

[koshergrl]

I talked to a lady the day before yesterday who was trying to get some homeless guy's snap card replaced...she has her own. He was in jail. Snap fraud is widespread, and most of the recipients have never known a day of hunger in their lives.

 

[syrenn]

EDIT: it also needs to be said that one of the food restrictions is hot food, so they couldn't buy something like fast food.

I tell ya, for someone who is here to present the "facts" about food stamps..... you dont know much or very many facts.

yes indeed you can purchase hot food....and yes indeed you can use snap at you favorite fast food junk spot.

Food stamps - known more formally as the USDA’s Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program - have been in use for grocery staples, such as bread and milk, since 1934, but now, for the first time, they can be used for fast food in four states across the country.

Fast Food Chains Getting Into the Food Stamp Act - ABC News

Fair enough fast food is an exception in FOUR states, however it still says in black and white on the Dept. of Agriculture's website that hot foods are ineligible. Don't believe me? Go look for yourself.

so what you know as facts are pretty slim.

FACT.... yes you can spend your whole snap befit on big macs and tacos.

 

[syrenn]

I talked to a lady the day before yesterday who was trying to get some homeless guy's snap card replaced...she has her own. He was in jail. Snap fraud is widespread, and most of the recipients have never known a day of hunger in their lives.

according to mr facts.... fraud is not a problem at all nor is it widespread.