The First Black Republican Presidential Nominee Will Be.....

LOL you keep coming up with excuses for why you, a racist , are not in fact a racist. And it all boils down to you are black so can not be racist. What a crock of shit. Remind us again how blacks selling slaves was FORCED on them. The mean old White man forced blacks to sell other blacks. Remind us again how black slave owners are better then white slave owners cause they might sell their slaves to a family member.



Definition of fact: 1 a : something that has actual existence ·space exploration is now a fact b : an actual occurrence ·prove the fact of damage 2 : a piece of information presented as having objective reality ·These are the hard facts of the case. 3 : the quality of being actual : actuality ·a question of fact hinges on evidence 4 : a thing done: such as a : crime ·accessory after the fact b archaic : action c obsolete : feat

Africans did NOT sell their own people into slavery

The Liverpool Museum website has a firsthand account of the story of an African boy, Ouladah Equiano violently forced into a life of slavery. It reads in part, “Generally, when the grown people in the neighbourhood were gone far in the fields to labour, the children assembled together in some of the neighbours’ premises to play; and commonly some of us used to get up a tree to look out for any assailant or kidnapper that might come upon us; for they sometimes took those opportunities of our parents’ absence to attack and carry off as many as they could seize...One day, when all our people were gone out to their works as usual, and only I and my dear sister were left to mind the house, two men and a woman got over our walls, and in a moment seized us both, and without giving us time to cry out, or make resistance, they stopped our mouths, and ran off with us into the nearest wood.”

The young man was thus taken from his country and taken to lands he had not seen before, sold for hundred and seventy two white shells and after six to seven months, arrived at the sea coast. A lot of Africans were kidnapped in this manner, others captured in battles, some sold off into slavery as payments for debts, and more sold as a punishment for crimes committed. They were then traded for goods which reduced them to no more than a commodity. The story of most African-Americans starts in a setting quite similar to Olaudah Equiano’s in Western Africa. It is a story of violence and dehumanisation that can never be forgotten or pushed under the rags of conciliatory denial.

Beginnings
The Portuguese are remembered as the first people to start enslaving Africans. They took captured Africans to Europe and the Spanish joined the growing industry, taking Africans to America in 1503. This marked the beginning of what was a macabre commercial enterprise dealing in people. BBC says, “Traders would export manufactured goods to West Africa where they would be exchanged for slaves from African merchants. The slaves were then transported across the Atlantic and sold for huge profits in the Americas.” It was an illustrious business that made many people but the victims rich. Traders in Africa were enriched just as merchants from the West also benefitted. What has been forgotten is how African communities resisted the trade in persons. The deliberate omission is an attempt to make the communities that remained culpable in a dirty system that only stole their loved ones from them.

The Untold Story of Resistance
It is a fact that there were certain African communities which worked hand in hand with Europeans to sell prisoners of war, criminals and even kidnap slaves for goods. Not much is then said of the resistance of such communities as Benin in what is now Southern Nigeria, and the Fante people of modern Ghana. Africa Speaks says Fante leader King Ansah had his people watch for ships and prevented them from coming ashore. In Benin, the people killed Europeans on sight while leaders in other parts of Africa only realised too late that the slave trade was really just exploitation and they gained little from it.

A Congolese king, Nzinga Mbemba wrote letters to the Portuguese after being awakened to the evil of slavery. In one letter he wrote, “That is why we beg of Your Highness to help and assist us in this matter, commanding your factors that they should not send here either merchants or wares, because it is our will that in these Kingdoms there should not be any trade of slaves nor outlet for them.”

https://www.africanexponent.com/pos...of-african-resistance-against-the-slave-trade

Did We Sell Each Other Into Slavery: Misconceptions About the African Involvement in the Slave Trade

In the first place, the Portuguese initiated what eventually became the Trans-Atlantic slave trade mainly through slave raids along the coasts of Africa. The first of these raids came in 1444 and was led by Lançarote de Freitas. The problem with raiding for slaves was that it was extremely dangerous. For instance, the slave trader Nuno Tristão was killed during an ambush. Slave raiding proved to be an extremely dangerous way to obtain slaves, but buying slaves was much safer and took less effort on the part of the Europeans. Therefore, the first phase of the slave trade began not with a trade, but with a series of raids. This point is especially important because although the slave trade was on some levels based on a partnership between European buyers and African traders, the slave trade did not begin as such.

Moreover, the partnership between the traders and buyers was an uneasy one. The European slave traders often betrayed those who supplied them with slaves. A famous case of this was the African slave trader Daaga who was tricked and captured by slave traders. He was taken to Trinidad where he would eventually lead a mutiny. Another example is given by Anne Bailey in her book African Voices in the Atlantic Slave Trade. She mentions the story of Chief Ndorkutsu who had been providing captives to the European traders. Eventually some of the Ndorkutsu’s own relatives were tricked into boarding a slave ship and then taken as slaves to Cuba.

Typically wars in West Africa were relatively short affairs that left a small number of causalities. The introduction of European weapons made these wars more drawn out and destructive affairs. Moreover, the only way Africans could acquire these firearms was through the trade of slaves. A king of Dahomey once requested that Europeans establish a firearms factory in his nation, but this request went ignored. Firearms became necessary for African nations to defend themselves both from African rivals as well as from European intrusion, but the only way to acquire these weapons was through the slave trade. This situation only benefited the competing European powers that were able to play Africans against each other.

Did We Sell Each Other Into Slavery: Misconceptions About the African Involvement in the Slave Trade | HuffPost

How Many Slaves Did Blacks Own?

So what do the actual numbers of black slave owners and their slaves tell us? In 1830, the year most carefully studied by Carter G. Woodson, about 13.7 percent (319,599) of the black population was free. Of these, 3,776 free Negroes owned 12,907 slaves, out of a total of 2,009,043 slaves owned in the entire United States, so the numbers of slaves owned by black people over all was quite small by comparison with the number owned by white people. In his essay, " 'The Known World' of Free Black Slaveholders," Thomas J. Pressly, using Woodson's statistics, calculated that 54 (or about 1 percent) of these black slave owners in 1830 owned between 20 and 84 slaves; 172 (about 4 percent) owned between 10 to 19 slaves; and 3,550 (about 94 percent) each owned between 1 and 9 slaves. Crucially, 42 percent owned just one slave.

It is reasonable to assume that the 42 percent of the free black slave owners who owned just one slave probably owned a family member to protect that person, as did many of the other black slave owners who owned only slightly larger numbers of slaves. As Woodson put it in 1924's Free Negro Owners of Slaves in the United States in 1830, "The census records show that the majority of the Negro owners of slaves were such from the point of view of philanthropy. In many instances the husband purchased the wife or vice versa … Slaves of Negroes were in some cases the children of a free father who had purchased his wife. If he did not thereafter emancipate the mother, as so many such husbands failed to do, his own children were born his slaves and were thus reported to the numerators."

Moreover, Woodson explains, "Benevolent Negroes often purchased slaves to make their lot easier by granting them their freedom for a nominal sum, or by permitting them to work it out on liberal terms." In other words, these black slave-owners, the clear majority, cleverly used the system of slavery to protect their loved ones.

Did Black People Own Slaves?

Now would you like to discuss the years after slavery, or are you scared?

tumblr_nkamg2vYZC1tfx1mao1_1280.jpg




No one is going to read that shit. You don't have the credibility.
 
If what I am saying makes no sense to you, it is probably because your circle of friends and life was in a rust belt high school during the time of the show around people that identified with the characters.

It is not abnormal for people to identify with a program that they can relate to, in fact, people who like certain shows, usually do for that reason.


It is commonly referred to as a "target audience" in entertainment marketing, with producers and script writers considering who will most likely watch a given program that is on the air.


I was long past high school during that time and was on the west coast in a completely different kind of non rural environment, around people that DID NOT identify with that kind of show, or its characters.

It seems quite simple to me, and rather narrow minded of you, not to be able to understand that.

12 Types of Target Audience


Yes, I understand that. I addressed it several times with references to how in my peer group and family and friends there was fans and not fans.


You initially assumed it was a show with limited REGIONAL appeal. Now you are trying to down play it as one with a limited target audience appeal.



The Dukes of Hazzard - Wikipedia


The show topped out in it's third season as the SECOND highest show of the year, with over 21 million viewers.


It was a family friendly action comedy. With widespread appeal.


That your circle of friends didn't include anyone that liked it, is your circle of friends being limited.



You should read some of these. I only read the first couple. These are old fans remembering good clean fun stories. Not one mentions the Confederate flag or racism, that I saw. Many of them discuss how nice and good the characters were, and how nice it was to watch with family.


This fits my perception of the show. Your perception of it, not.


"And you could always appreciate the country values the Dukes always espoused ... be good to your neighbor, thank the Lord before meals, don't lie or cheat or steal.

"The Dukes of Hazzard" is not rocket science, it's not deep or profound or socially redeemable or whatever else. It's just plain heckin' fun!!!!"


"Eight years after Fred Silverman's infamous "rural purge", this show burst on the scene and instantly became a hit. Even though the show did get a lot of heat for the outlandish plots, simplistic characters and scantily clad women, especially Daisy, this show struck a chord with the American public during the late 70's/early 80's. Also, you could tell that this show was done very tongue in cheek and that the cast had a lot of fun doing it."



"I remember being eight years old when I started watching this show. I would anxiously await the Friday line up that included The Incredible Hulk, Dallas, Falcon Crest and this one. That was a great Friday line up, highlighted of course by the Dukes. What was so appealing about this show to so many people was it's virtue. I'm sure parents wanted their kids to watch it because you couldn't have a better show for their kids to watch. It was safe. The Dukes were polite, virtuous and church going. How could they not like that? How could a parent object to anything like that? But of course as kids we liked it for different reasons.

Stunts, fast cars, Daisy, Boss Hogg and Roscoe. The Dukes of Hazard was so absurd sometimes but it always entertained you and more often than not it made you laugh. Could you imagine what the script must have looked like when they first pitched it to studio? Could you imagine how silly Roscoe must have looked on paper? I mean how do you write in his ridiculous laugh? How do you write all of his idiosyncrasies? Or was that all James Best? I don't know, but it sure was funny."




"The Dukes of Hazzard is to me, a great southern series with comedy and adventure. It's actually nice to take a breather from all the dramas and shows where stories take place in either New York, Los Angeles, or Chicago. And this show delivered. Tom Wopat and John Schneider were excellent as Bo and Luke Duke and their real life friendship provided the perfect chemistry for their characters, which is why I felt the show was so popular and this friendship was established before they auditioned together.

Daisy Duke is truly a super beautiful girl and very nice in real life, since I've had the honor of meeting Catherine Bach as well as the other surviving cast members. Even I loved Daisy Duke and it's hard to imagine a guy growing up back then who didn't feel that way.

Denver Pyle as Uncle Jese was truly the backbone of the series. I also fondly recall watching him as Mad Jack on Grizzly Adams as well as Pa Darling on the Andy Griffith Show. He was also a good example of a Christian man since he was also the moral backbone of the series as well.

Sorrell Booke was what I call a comical villain. He wasn't even a real villain for that matter. Although he and Uncle Jesse were enemies, they were also old friends. Boss Hogg was hilarious in those ridiculous white outfits and all that eating he did. I couldn't even think about eating all that he had.

James Best. There's not enough complimentary words to describe him. He has to be one of the funniest and most talented actors in history. Sheriff Rosco P. Coltrane made me laugh more than any other character. His sputtering and all those sayings of his like Cuff em and Stuff em! are now legend. Whoever heard of a stupid sheriff? Watch this show and you'll see him in action. I also loved his Bassett Hound Flash."





You should watch a few episodes. Or at least read a LOT of the reviews. Your view of the world, and the people in it, are just plain wrong.


This family friendly, fun, tone, and perception WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE IF YOUR VIEW OF THE CONFEDERATE FLAG AND SOUTHERN PRIDE WAS CORRECT.


It is valid for you to hold the position, that the "rebranding" was wrong.


But for you to pretend it did not happen, and to judge people (or shows) as though it did not happen, is not reasonable.


Indeed, it puts you in the position of being an asshole.


You really want to call these people, like the one who was EIGHT when he was fan, watching the show with his dad, you want to call him out for being a fan of tv heroes that had a Confederate Flag on the roof of their car?



EVERYONE ELSE IN AMERICA KNEW IT WAS JUST A FUN TV SHOW. IF YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS DID NOT, THERE WAS/IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU.

No, there is nothing "wrong with me" because I do not share your particular taste in TV programs, and for you to even make a statement like that, makes YOU a pompous ass, not me.

I personally do not care who liked the show and who did not, nor am I judging anyone who did.

For you to question my personal preferences as far as television shows, truly makes you someone who clearly has too much time on their hands.

You nor me, nor anyone else "Knows what EVERYONE in America actually thought of the show", as you stated.

That is a ridiculous and illogical overstatement, because no one has the psychic ability to have such knowledge.

We have differing views of the Confederate flag and that amounts to what it is......different opinions, which has nothing to do with who watches what on television.

You are an extremely small and petty individual.


Your position is that the symbol(s) represent racism and slavery and secession.


IN a society, where the symbols have, at least until recently, been widely accepted, as demonstrated by my example of the Dukes of Hazzard, this is not a "petty" point.


If you are correct, then we live in a society, where until very recently extremely racist symbols, and thus, the racism they symbolize was widely accepted and celebrated.


If I am correct, then we live in a society where, until very recently, symbols of regional pride, and thus the regional pride they symbolize were widely accepted and celebrated.


My use of the show, to examine this point, is brilliant. You should read the reviews. They are a window into the people who liked the show and what they were and who they are.


They are not racist or bad people, as would be expected, in your world.


I am going out on a limb in saying this, btw, I only looked at the first 5 or 6 reviews.


Maybe if you read them all you can find that further down, the vast majority are from Evul White Men who loved the public celebration of Evul Racism, for the Evulness of it all., or something like that that would support your world view.


If you find that, you could really crush me. If you are confident in your worldview, I would think that you would expect to find a good deal of that, in the reviews.


So, are you going to look? Or do you prefer to just make assumptions about people you don't know, and don't like?

My "position" is one of someone who did not just read in passing in an old history book about symbols of oppression. I actually saw them in effect as realities, unlike you.

The same filthy animals that threw urine and feces on my parents at a PEACEFUL civil rights march down south in the 60's were waving confederate flags.

In the context of historic timelines, it was not that long ago that I experienced what I did, so for you to speculate about and then attempt to judge what MY perception is of something that was offensive to ME and many others in an environment that you did not experience during a time when you were not even born is not "brilliant" by any means.


Using a television show, that I did not watch nor had an interest in as a means to justify your defense of this symbol is nothing more than you expressing your opinion.


IT IS NOT THE SHOW. IT IS THAT AMERICA AS A WHOLE ACCEPTED IT'S PORTRAYAL OF THE SYMBOLS AS HARMLESS AND NOT RACIST.


If "everyone in America" was as accepting as you claim of the "symbol" that you are so determined to defend as "harmless" the independent networks would still be running syndicated episodes of it.


Was accepting. Since then, you lefties have grown in power and intolerance and become more aggressive in The Culture War. But what happened in the more recent past, does not change the historical record of over 150 years of acceptance.



But obviously there were enough people who resented the shows use of a Confederate flag caricature to prompt even reruns of the show to be cancelled.

This is just you defending what you casually view as a symbol of "regional pride", which you are certainly entitled to do, just as I am entitled as many others are to view it as I do.

I read your cut and pasted reviews of the show, and like any other show, it had a following by a certain audience, and also,like any other show, it appealed to SOME people, but not ALL people.


Quite a lot of people. But more to the point, none of them, AND none of those that did not watch the show, seemed to have any problem with the depiction of the symbols as harmless regional pride.

I looked. I was hoping to find some report of some small group that made a fuss and was ignored, and/or laughed at.

But I could find NOTHING. Not one peep.



By your own admission, your views and platform of reasoning revolves around defending everything that you believe to be related to the values of white society in America, no matter what.


Incorrect. Try again without the spin.



But it also appears that anyone who has self interests based on their life experiences that are not aligned with your views, you seem to perceive as a threat to your defense of what you believe in.

That is what I am referring to as being "small and petty".

Your belief system is yours to support, however you are in no position to judge my life experiences and beliefs, or those of others as an assault upon yours.


I do when they are an assault on my views and my heritage and my interests. Or, "or".




That has nothing to do with me "making assumptions about people that I don't know of dislike" as you claim.

I do not have any emotional investment to contribute towards "liking or disliking" complete strangers whose beliefs happen to be different than mine, but I do reserve the right to not share their views for my own reasons.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...ukes-of-hazzard-yanked-from-tv-land/29571785/




Do you admit that the people of the 1980s, who endorsed the celebration of the symbols of the Confederate Flag and The General Lee,

were doing so, in their view, as harmless symbols of regional pride, and thus for you to judge them, or treat them as though they were celebrating those symbols as though they agreed with YOU, that they were symbols of racism,


would be wrong of you?

One last time. S L O W L Y. Before I depart from this silly circular argument that you are so intent on engaging in:


1. I do not care if YOU or anyone else sees your Confederate flag as a "harmless symbol of regional pride that has stood for 150 years".

I witnessed it being present in the hands of racist, anti civil rights scum in the early 1960's. In case you did not realize it, the 1960's were LESS than 60 years ago. So you can stop wasting your time trying to convince me that most of the country has viewed it as "harmless" for that length of time.

2. I will not admit to something that I disagree with for the sake of making you comfortable.

3. I am not "incorrect" in my view of what your so called "positions" revolve around. It is obvious that anything that you remotely perceive as not being aligned with your extremely radical, far right, pro white agenda, you consider to be an assault on ALL white people, as a self proclaimed spokesperson for that demographic, evidenced by your attempt to lecture me on a topic that you have no understanding of or experience with.

3. Your insistence on labeling others who do not agree with your views as "lefties" is a tactic that you default to in nearly every thread that I've seen you present in. And then after that, you progress to "race baiting asshole" as your next level of defense. Which is exactly why I normally don't respond to much of what you have to say.

Most rabidly political zealots of any kind are normally impossible to reason with. And I usually don't waste valuable time attempting to do so.

Therefore I am agreeing to disagree and you are entitled to your views, but realize that you are nowhere near informed enough and lack the life experience to be critical of mine.

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I looked. I was hoping to find some report of some small group that made a fuss and was ignored, and/or laughed at.

But I could find NOTHING. Not one peep.
I looked for a minute and found this nice little story ending with:
It would be nice to go back to that time of racial innocence when I looked at the Duke boys no differently than myself. When they were just two cool dudes in a cool car. When race didn't matter.
That after relating this unfortunate incident taking place prior:
On this particular day, it was my turn to drive our wooden version of the General Lee. Right when I was about to sit in the driver's seat, a few of my white male classmates stopped me.

"You can't drive because you can't be one of the Duke boys," one of them said, as he blocked my path.
Whoa, really? Can't be one of them thar super innocent moonshine transporters on probation, wtf?
"And why not?" I asked.

"Because you're black," he said, matter of factly.

He was right. I was black and the Duke boys were white. That was obvious – at least it was to him. But up until that moment, I don't think it had quite registered with me that skin color mattered in any discernible way.
 
Yes, I understand that. I addressed it several times with references to how in my peer group and family and friends there was fans and not fans.


You initially assumed it was a show with limited REGIONAL appeal. Now you are trying to down play it as one with a limited target audience appeal.



The Dukes of Hazzard - Wikipedia


The show topped out in it's third season as the SECOND highest show of the year, with over 21 million viewers.


It was a family friendly action comedy. With widespread appeal.


That your circle of friends didn't include anyone that liked it, is your circle of friends being limited.



You should read some of these. I only read the first couple. These are old fans remembering good clean fun stories. Not one mentions the Confederate flag or racism, that I saw. Many of them discuss how nice and good the characters were, and how nice it was to watch with family.


This fits my perception of the show. Your perception of it, not.


"And you could always appreciate the country values the Dukes always espoused ... be good to your neighbor, thank the Lord before meals, don't lie or cheat or steal.

"The Dukes of Hazzard" is not rocket science, it's not deep or profound or socially redeemable or whatever else. It's just plain heckin' fun!!!!"


"Eight years after Fred Silverman's infamous "rural purge", this show burst on the scene and instantly became a hit. Even though the show did get a lot of heat for the outlandish plots, simplistic characters and scantily clad women, especially Daisy, this show struck a chord with the American public during the late 70's/early 80's. Also, you could tell that this show was done very tongue in cheek and that the cast had a lot of fun doing it."



"I remember being eight years old when I started watching this show. I would anxiously await the Friday line up that included The Incredible Hulk, Dallas, Falcon Crest and this one. That was a great Friday line up, highlighted of course by the Dukes. What was so appealing about this show to so many people was it's virtue. I'm sure parents wanted their kids to watch it because you couldn't have a better show for their kids to watch. It was safe. The Dukes were polite, virtuous and church going. How could they not like that? How could a parent object to anything like that? But of course as kids we liked it for different reasons.

Stunts, fast cars, Daisy, Boss Hogg and Roscoe. The Dukes of Hazard was so absurd sometimes but it always entertained you and more often than not it made you laugh. Could you imagine what the script must have looked like when they first pitched it to studio? Could you imagine how silly Roscoe must have looked on paper? I mean how do you write in his ridiculous laugh? How do you write all of his idiosyncrasies? Or was that all James Best? I don't know, but it sure was funny."




"The Dukes of Hazzard is to me, a great southern series with comedy and adventure. It's actually nice to take a breather from all the dramas and shows where stories take place in either New York, Los Angeles, or Chicago. And this show delivered. Tom Wopat and John Schneider were excellent as Bo and Luke Duke and their real life friendship provided the perfect chemistry for their characters, which is why I felt the show was so popular and this friendship was established before they auditioned together.

Daisy Duke is truly a super beautiful girl and very nice in real life, since I've had the honor of meeting Catherine Bach as well as the other surviving cast members. Even I loved Daisy Duke and it's hard to imagine a guy growing up back then who didn't feel that way.

Denver Pyle as Uncle Jese was truly the backbone of the series. I also fondly recall watching him as Mad Jack on Grizzly Adams as well as Pa Darling on the Andy Griffith Show. He was also a good example of a Christian man since he was also the moral backbone of the series as well.

Sorrell Booke was what I call a comical villain. He wasn't even a real villain for that matter. Although he and Uncle Jesse were enemies, they were also old friends. Boss Hogg was hilarious in those ridiculous white outfits and all that eating he did. I couldn't even think about eating all that he had.

James Best. There's not enough complimentary words to describe him. He has to be one of the funniest and most talented actors in history. Sheriff Rosco P. Coltrane made me laugh more than any other character. His sputtering and all those sayings of his like Cuff em and Stuff em! are now legend. Whoever heard of a stupid sheriff? Watch this show and you'll see him in action. I also loved his Bassett Hound Flash."





You should watch a few episodes. Or at least read a LOT of the reviews. Your view of the world, and the people in it, are just plain wrong.


This family friendly, fun, tone, and perception WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE IF YOUR VIEW OF THE CONFEDERATE FLAG AND SOUTHERN PRIDE WAS CORRECT.


It is valid for you to hold the position, that the "rebranding" was wrong.


But for you to pretend it did not happen, and to judge people (or shows) as though it did not happen, is not reasonable.


Indeed, it puts you in the position of being an asshole.


You really want to call these people, like the one who was EIGHT when he was fan, watching the show with his dad, you want to call him out for being a fan of tv heroes that had a Confederate Flag on the roof of their car?



EVERYONE ELSE IN AMERICA KNEW IT WAS JUST A FUN TV SHOW. IF YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS DID NOT, THERE WAS/IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU.

No, there is nothing "wrong with me" because I do not share your particular taste in TV programs, and for you to even make a statement like that, makes YOU a pompous ass, not me.

I personally do not care who liked the show and who did not, nor am I judging anyone who did.

For you to question my personal preferences as far as television shows, truly makes you someone who clearly has too much time on their hands.

You nor me, nor anyone else "Knows what EVERYONE in America actually thought of the show", as you stated.

That is a ridiculous and illogical overstatement, because no one has the psychic ability to have such knowledge.

We have differing views of the Confederate flag and that amounts to what it is......different opinions, which has nothing to do with who watches what on television.

You are an extremely small and petty individual.


Your position is that the symbol(s) represent racism and slavery and secession.


IN a society, where the symbols have, at least until recently, been widely accepted, as demonstrated by my example of the Dukes of Hazzard, this is not a "petty" point.


If you are correct, then we live in a society, where until very recently extremely racist symbols, and thus, the racism they symbolize was widely accepted and celebrated.


If I am correct, then we live in a society where, until very recently, symbols of regional pride, and thus the regional pride they symbolize were widely accepted and celebrated.


My use of the show, to examine this point, is brilliant. You should read the reviews. They are a window into the people who liked the show and what they were and who they are.


They are not racist or bad people, as would be expected, in your world.


I am going out on a limb in saying this, btw, I only looked at the first 5 or 6 reviews.


Maybe if you read them all you can find that further down, the vast majority are from Evul White Men who loved the public celebration of Evul Racism, for the Evulness of it all., or something like that that would support your world view.


If you find that, you could really crush me. If you are confident in your worldview, I would think that you would expect to find a good deal of that, in the reviews.


So, are you going to look? Or do you prefer to just make assumptions about people you don't know, and don't like?

My "position" is one of someone who did not just read in passing in an old history book about symbols of oppression. I actually saw them in effect as realities, unlike you.

The same filthy animals that threw urine and feces on my parents at a PEACEFUL civil rights march down south in the 60's were waving confederate flags.

In the context of historic timelines, it was not that long ago that I experienced what I did, so for you to speculate about and then attempt to judge what MY perception is of something that was offensive to ME and many others in an environment that you did not experience during a time when you were not even born is not "brilliant" by any means.


Using a television show, that I did not watch nor had an interest in as a means to justify your defense of this symbol is nothing more than you expressing your opinion.


IT IS NOT THE SHOW. IT IS THAT AMERICA AS A WHOLE ACCEPTED IT'S PORTRAYAL OF THE SYMBOLS AS HARMLESS AND NOT RACIST.


If "everyone in America" was as accepting as you claim of the "symbol" that you are so determined to defend as "harmless" the independent networks would still be running syndicated episodes of it.


Was accepting. Since then, you lefties have grown in power and intolerance and become more aggressive in The Culture War. But what happened in the more recent past, does not change the historical record of over 150 years of acceptance.



But obviously there were enough people who resented the shows use of a Confederate flag caricature to prompt even reruns of the show to be cancelled.

This is just you defending what you casually view as a symbol of "regional pride", which you are certainly entitled to do, just as I am entitled as many others are to view it as I do.

I read your cut and pasted reviews of the show, and like any other show, it had a following by a certain audience, and also,like any other show, it appealed to SOME people, but not ALL people.


Quite a lot of people. But more to the point, none of them, AND none of those that did not watch the show, seemed to have any problem with the depiction of the symbols as harmless regional pride.

I looked. I was hoping to find some report of some small group that made a fuss and was ignored, and/or laughed at.

But I could find NOTHING. Not one peep.



By your own admission, your views and platform of reasoning revolves around defending everything that you believe to be related to the values of white society in America, no matter what.


Incorrect. Try again without the spin.



But it also appears that anyone who has self interests based on their life experiences that are not aligned with your views, you seem to perceive as a threat to your defense of what you believe in.

That is what I am referring to as being "small and petty".

Your belief system is yours to support, however you are in no position to judge my life experiences and beliefs, or those of others as an assault upon yours.


I do when they are an assault on my views and my heritage and my interests. Or, "or".




That has nothing to do with me "making assumptions about people that I don't know of dislike" as you claim.

I do not have any emotional investment to contribute towards "liking or disliking" complete strangers whose beliefs happen to be different than mine, but I do reserve the right to not share their views for my own reasons.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...ukes-of-hazzard-yanked-from-tv-land/29571785/




Do you admit that the people of the 1980s, who endorsed the celebration of the symbols of the Confederate Flag and The General Lee,

were doing so, in their view, as harmless symbols of regional pride, and thus for you to judge them, or treat them as though they were celebrating those symbols as though they agreed with YOU, that they were symbols of racism,


would be wrong of you?

One last time. S L O W L Y. Before I depart from this silly circular argument that you are so intent on engaging in:


1. I do not care if YOU or anyone else sees your Confederate flag as a "harmless symbol of regional pride that has stood for 150 years".

I witnessed it being present in the hands of racist, anti civil rights scum in the early 1960's. In case you did not realize it, the 1960's were LESS than 60 years ago. So you can stop wasting your time trying to convince me that most of the country has viewed it as "harmless" for that length of time.


Why do you give those relatively few racists what they want ie the power to co-opt those symbols for their purposes?



2. I will not admit to something that I disagree with for the sake of making you comfortable.

But on what grounds can you disagree with me? The evidence from the show is clear, good clean fun.



3. I am not "incorrect" in my view of what your so called "positions" revolve around. It is obvious that anything that you remotely perceive as not being aligned with your extremely radical, far right, pro white agenda, you consider to be an assault on ALL white people, as a self proclaimed spokesperson for that demographic, evidenced by your attempt to lecture me on a topic that you have no understanding of or experience with.


My understanding and experience is just as valid as your own. We live in an insane world, were you can say something like, "your views are invalid because you are white", and expect to be taken seriously.




3. Your insistence on labeling others who do not agree with your views as "lefties" is a tactic that you default to in nearly every thread that I've seen you present in. And then after that, you progress to "race baiting asshole" as your next level of defense. Which is exactly why I normally don't respond to much of what you have to say.

Most rabidly political zealots of any kind are normally impossible to reason with. And I usually don't waste valuable time attempting to do so.


For a number of posts in a row, you've managed to be relatively civil and actually address the topic and my points, seriously and I believe, honesty.


Note how I have replied in kind.


I treat people with the level of respect they show me. When you see me calling people "lefties" or "race baiting assholes" it is because they have taken the discussion to that level.


If you withdraw from the conversation at this point, it is not because I have been rude to you. I have not. So, don't kid yourself with that excuse.




Therefore I am agreeing to disagree and you are entitled to your views, but realize that you are nowhere near informed enough and lack the life experience to be critical of mine.

View attachment 313841


So, all you have to refute my many cited examples, from the BLue and Grey Reunion, to the Dukes of Hazzard, to Obama sending a wreath to the Confederate Memorial,


is that I am white, and thus my views can be discounted.
 
Ghost won't tell us if he ever turned in white workers for the same thing. Again as I stated, he will claim the whites always wore their gloves to justify himself.

You really need to pay more attention. I just told Grumblefish today that I have had white coworkers removed from the vessel. In fact, every one of them was white.

And, for the thousandth time - pay attention because this will be on the test - I DID NOT TURN HIM IN FOR NOT WEARING THE GLOVES. I didn't turn him in at all. He was being difficult and acting like an asshole because he thought I was picking on him when I spoke to him about the gloves. So I asked the supervisor to sit down with the both of us to resolve the situation and try to convince him that I was not picking on him.

Why do you insist on getting this wrong every fucking time even after having told you what happened a hundred times?


Because he knows that if he actually addresses what you actually said, his stonewalling, and thus him, will look even stupider than they already do.

Very normal behavior for liberals. They have to do that, all the time, to pretend to win arguments.

He's got a narrative that he truly believes in (that blacks can't be racist) and nothing, not even the truth, will divert him from that. In his mind, he cannot allow that the guy simply overreacted. So he throws assumptions out there like, my being the white guy, I MUST have done something to piss the guy off or that the guy MUST have observed me treating the whites differently or, whatever allows him to keep pushing his narrative so he won't have to objectively examine the events.
 
I looked. I was hoping to find some report of some small group that made a fuss and was ignored, and/or laughed at.

But I could find NOTHING. Not one peep.
I looked for a minute and found this nice little story ending with:
It would be nice to go back to that time of racial innocence when I looked at the Duke boys no differently than myself. When they were just two cool dudes in a cool car. When race didn't matter.
That after relating this unfortunate incident taking place prior:
On this particular day, it was my turn to drive our wooden version of the General Lee. Right when I was about to sit in the driver's seat, a few of my white male classmates stopped me.

"You can't drive because you can't be one of the Duke boys," one of them said, as he blocked my path.
Whoa, really? Can't be one of them thar super innocent moonshine transporters on probation, wtf?
"And why not?" I asked.

"Because you're black," he said, matter of factly.

He was right. I was black and the Duke boys were white. That was obvious – at least it was to him. But up until that moment, I don't think it had quite registered with me that skin color mattered in any discernible way.


That is not a complaint about the show, and it's use of confederate symbols.


You could not find any either. That is my point. NO ONE COMPLAINED. EVERYONE ACCEPTED IT.


That shows the way that, until very recently, America as a whole, viewed those symbols.
 
Ghost won't tell us if he ever turned in white workers for the same thing. Again as I stated, he will claim the whites always wore their gloves to justify himself.

You really need to pay more attention. I just told Grumblefish today that I have had white coworkers removed from the vessel. In fact, every one of them was white.

And, for the thousandth time - pay attention because this will be on the test - I DID NOT TURN HIM IN FOR NOT WEARING THE GLOVES. I didn't turn him in at all. He was being difficult and acting like an asshole because he thought I was picking on him when I spoke to him about the gloves. So I asked the supervisor to sit down with the both of us to resolve the situation and try to convince him that I was not picking on him.

Why do you insist on getting this wrong every fucking time even after having told you what happened a hundred times?


Because he knows that if he actually addresses what you actually said, his stonewalling, and thus him, will look even stupider than they already do.

Very normal behavior for liberals. They have to do that, all the time, to pretend to win arguments.

He's got a narrative that he truly believes in (that blacks can't be racist) and nothing, not even the truth, will divert him from that. In his mind, he cannot allow that the guy simply overreacted. So he throws assumptions out there like, my being the white guy, I MUST have done something to piss the guy off or that the guy MUST have observed me treating the whites differently or, whatever allows him to keep pushing his narrative so he won't have to objectively examine the events.


It is amazing that he can't see any problem with having to make up shit, to protect his belief system.


The lack of self awareness, is incredible.
 
Therefore, if I was to say something about blacks and fried chicken, you would say I'm a racist with no hesitation, without even ascertaining whether or not I think blacks are inferior, would you not?
Of course not. You're communicating a racial slur or stereotype, but further context is required to conclude one is "racist" else the term is simply superfluous. As IM2 has stated, some form of abuse has to be evident. Actual harm must be detectable. When blacks refer to one another as "nigga" it's all in good fun. Supremacist whites doing it to express their shared belief of superiority is the opposite. To put or keep blacks in their place. Abuse and harm clearly intended. Chris Rock using racial stereotypes in an effort to help us all laugh together at ourselves is not being racist.
 
I will accept IM2's opinions from their source. Some of your apoplectic attempts to summarize his views are somewhat entertaining to read. I'll grant you that much.

If he was wrong about me concocting my story then it raises the obvious question: What else is he wrong about?

He consistently, persistently and insistently gets things wrong about my story despite being told numerous times what happened. Example: That I "narced" on my black coworker for not wearing gloves (I did not). That I said that blacks are lazy and incompetent (I did not). That I never reprimanded white coworkers the same way (I did).

Sorry, but IM2 has proven that his opinions are only as valid as his esteem of the person he is addressing. If he likes you and you generally agree with him and pander to his Blacks-can't-be-racist ideology, you get a lot of Thank You!, Agree, and Winner! ratings. But if he dislikes you or thinks you're racist or disagree with him on any aspect of race/racism, no matter how small, his assumptions and opinions are all over the map and usually wrong.
Again, such anecdotes are simply garbage. IM2 supplies sources and quotes for verification. Your word on it, some stranger on the internet, that some story is true and accurate will always count for jack shit by comparison. Concocted story or not, the entire premise is misguided at best.
 
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I witnessed it being present in the hands of racist, anti civil rights scum in the early 1960's. In case you did not realize it, the 1960's were LESS than 60 years ago. So you can stop wasting your time trying to convince me that most of the country has viewed it as "harmless" for that length of time.
Exactly. Me 2.
 
Therefore, if I was to say something about blacks and fried chicken, you would say I'm a racist with no hesitation, without even ascertaining whether or not I think blacks are inferior, would you not?
Of course not. You're communicating a racial slur or stereotype, but further context is required to conclude one is "racist" else the term is simply superfluous. As IM2 has stated, some form of abuse has to be evident.

Then why does IM2 call me racist? He's never received any abuse from me. For that matter, I've been called racist for much less than a fried chicken comment by two or three other blacks here and by about the same number of whites and none of them have ever received any abuse from me nor have any of them ever heard me say anything offensive or denigrating about blacks. Not one.

Look at some of the things IM2 has said to me or about me in this thread on the subject of my story. I'll give just one example: In one post he says: "Ghost won't tell us if he ever turned in white workers for the same thing. Again as I stated, he will claim the whites always wore their gloves to justify himself."

Do you not see what he's doing here? Essentially what he's saying is that he already knows I never reprimanded white workers the same way (even though he has no way of knowing this) and if I say so, it's bullshit.

How does he know this? He doesn't. He presumes this because I'm white. He reinforces this with the idea that blacks can't be racist. That being the case, I MUST be the one who did wrong here or I must have made the story up or I'm not telling the whole story.

Actual harm must be detectable. When blacks refer to one another as "nigga" it's all in good fun. Supremacist whites doing it to express their shared belief of superiority is the opposite. To put or keep blacks in their place. Abuse and harm clearly intended. Chris Rock using racial stereotypes in an effort to help us all laugh together at ourselves is not being racist.

These days the word "racist" is being tossed out there like confetti for the stupidest reasons. It seems to me that I'm not the one you need to talk to about what the word racism means.
 
Really? Affirmative Action, hiring quotas, relaxed standards -- not conservative policies.

Liberals say you can't succeed without their help -- and you kiss their ass.

No self-respect. Pathetic.

Funny how you don't want to talk about the 189 years whites got affirmative action before the executive order.
Yawn.

I understand your fear son. Because your little white delusion of grandeur will be deconstructed if you chose to even try getting into such a discussion. So go on to sleep before I put you there.
Threats from a pussy like you who's scared of words are less than credible.

Being offended is far different from being scared son. But since I am such a pussy, I guess that means you will engage in a discussion of white racism after slavery.
Nope. You don't want discussion. You want to spew your Hate Whitey garbage and get instant, unthinking endorsement. I don't do that. I am not a leftist.
 
It was a racist show written for morons and it is an embarrassment for anyone to admit they liked it.

No, there is nothing "wrong with me" because I do not share your particular taste in TV programs, and for you to even make a statement like that, makes YOU a pompous ass, not me. Obviously the show would have some regional appeal. By your own admission you were in a rust belt area where some people identified with the characters of the show, that's human nature.

I personally do not care who liked the show and who did not, nor am I judging anyone who did. It's not a big deal to me.

But you questioning my personal preferences as far as television shows, makes you someone who clearly has far too much time on their hands.

You nor me, nor anyone else "Knows what EVERYONE in America actually thought of the show", as you stated.

That is a ridiculous and illogical overstatement, because no one has the psychic ability to have such knowledge.

We have differing views of the Confederate flag and that amounts to what it is......different opinions, which has nothing to do with who watches what on television.

You are an extremely small and petty individual.

You'll understand if I don't hold my breath waiting for you to chastise rightwinger for what you're chastising Correll for.

Because everyone involved knows you're not going to do that.

What RW says to another poster, is his business, not mine.

I'm not a moderator here, so what is your point?
Pointing out leftist hypocrisy is a hobby of mine.
 
I will accept IM2's opinions from their source. Some of your apoplectic attempts to summarize his views are somewhat entertaining to read. I'll grant you that much.

If he was wrong about me concocting my story then it raises the obvious question: What else is he wrong about?

He consistently, persistently and insistently gets things wrong about my story despite being told numerous times what happened. Example: That I "narced" on my black coworker for not wearing gloves (I did not). That I said that blacks are lazy and incompetent (I did not). That I never reprimanded white coworkers the same way (I did).

Sorry, but IM2 has proven that his opinions are only as valid as his esteem of the person he is addressing. If he likes you and you generally agree with him and pander to his Blacks-can't-be-racist ideology, you get a lot of Thank You!, Agree, and Winner! ratings. But if he dislikes you or thinks you're racist or disagree with him on any aspect of race/racism, no matter how small, his assumptions and opinions are all over the map and usually wrong.
Again, such anecdotes are simply garbage. IM2 supplies sources and quotes for verification. Your word on it, some stranger on the internet, that some story is true and accurate will always count for jack shit by comparison. Concocted story or not, the entire premise is misguided at best.


Dude. You know that his story is true. You are pretending otherwise, because it is the only way you have to dodge his far more reasonable arguements.


AND, let's not forget that,


1. you agree that blacks can be racist.

2. But you are deferring to IM2, because of his skin color.
 
I will accept IM2's opinions from their source. Some of your apoplectic attempts to summarize his views are somewhat entertaining to read. I'll grant you that much.

If he was wrong about me concocting my story then it raises the obvious question: What else is he wrong about?

He consistently, persistently and insistently gets things wrong about my story despite being told numerous times what happened. Example: That I "narced" on my black coworker for not wearing gloves (I did not). That I said that blacks are lazy and incompetent (I did not). That I never reprimanded white coworkers the same way (I did).

Sorry, but IM2 has proven that his opinions are only as valid as his esteem of the person he is addressing. If he likes you and you generally agree with him and pander to his Blacks-can't-be-racist ideology, you get a lot of Thank You!, Agree, and Winner! ratings. But if he dislikes you or thinks you're racist or disagree with him on any aspect of race/racism, no matter how small, his assumptions and opinions are all over the map and usually wrong.
Again, such anecdotes are simply garbage. IM2 supplies sources and quotes for verification. Your word on it, some stranger on the internet, that some story is true and accurate will always count for jack shit by comparison. Concocted story or not, the entire premise is misguided at best.

What the fuck kind of sources and quotes am I going to get to verify a personal experience for Christ's sake? This is a copout argument. If I was talking about something that could be verified through statistics and history and whatnot, I'd see your point.

So the question becomes: It may be unverifiable but; why would you doubt it?

Personally, I think you believe my story is true or at least know that it is plausible. Two other posters here related similar stories. This is not about "unverifiable anecdotes" for you. If it was, you would have mentioned it then when I first brought it up, but you didn't. You chose instead to dispute my point and even ask me a question.

Nay, I think it is a ploy to take attention away from the fact that you know goddamn well that IM2 fucked up.

As for verification, when I first related my story to IM2, he didn't ask for or wait for any kind of verification before pronouncing it bullshit. So "unverifiable anecdotes" be damned.

Whatever IM2 knows about the history of slavery and racism in America, he is completely full of shit when it comes to pretty much anything else and is a rabid racist. And, for the life of me, I cannot understand why people like you and rightwinger continue to kiss his ass when all we ever hear from him is "Shut the fuck up white boy", "No white person is going to tell me..." or "You white assholes...". It truly amazes me.
 
IM2 lies about black slavery, he makes excuses for black slavers and black slave owners and claims because some blacks fought against it it was not as bad, totally ignoring the white people that fought against slavery around the world.
 
I've encountered blacks who made their hatred for all whites crystal clear. Being far less worldly decades ago my ego took many hits until I understood how stupid I was being.. IM2 does not even come close imo, but that still wouldn't qualify as racist until someone actually got hurt as a direct result of racial bias in some meaningful, measurable way. Like getting fired. Got pictures of your bruises, Ghost? Psychiatrist bills? No? Then what exactly are you still crying about, not being believed or taken seriously? Being called names?
 
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Frankly, I'm surprised how civil our black members remain in light of all the shameless white supremacist commentary easily found daily on this forum. Some of you lily white pansies really need to put away your popguns and try on a pair of big boy pants.
 
Frankly, I'm surprised how civil our black members remain in light of all the shameless white supremacist commentary easily found daily on this forum. Some of you lily white pansies really need to put away your popguns and try on a pair of big boy pants.
...says the guy who refuses to criticize a black guy for fear of being called racist.
 
I will accept IM2's opinions from their source. Some of your apoplectic attempts to summarize his views are somewhat entertaining to read. I'll grant you that much.

If he was wrong about me concocting my story then it raises the obvious question: What else is he wrong about?

He consistently, persistently and insistently gets things wrong about my story despite being told numerous times what happened. Example: That I "narced" on my black coworker for not wearing gloves (I did not). That I said that blacks are lazy and incompetent (I did not). That I never reprimanded white coworkers the same way (I did).

Sorry, but IM2 has proven that his opinions are only as valid as his esteem of the person he is addressing. If he likes you and you generally agree with him and pander to his Blacks-can't-be-racist ideology, you get a lot of Thank You!, Agree, and Winner! ratings. But if he dislikes you or thinks you're racist or disagree with him on any aspect of race/racism, no matter how small, his assumptions and opinions are all over the map and usually wrong.
Again, such anecdotes are simply garbage. IM2 supplies sources and quotes for verification. Your word on it, some stranger on the internet, that some story is true and accurate will always count for jack shit by comparison. Concocted story or not, the entire premise is misguided at best.

What the fuck kind of sources and quotes am I going to get to verify a personal experience for Christ's sake? This is a copout argument. If I was talking about something that could be verified through statistics and history and whatnot, I'd see your point.

So the question becomes: It may be unverifiable but; why would you doubt it?

Personally, I think you believe my story is true or at least know that it is plausible. Two other posters here related similar stories. This is not about "unverifiable anecdotes" for you. If it was, you would have mentioned it then when I first brought it up, but you didn't. You chose instead to dispute my point and even ask me a question.

Nay, I think it is a ploy to take attention away from the fact that you know goddamn well that IM2 fucked up.

As for verification, when I first related my story to IM2, he didn't ask for or wait for any kind of verification before pronouncing it bullshit. So "unverifiable anecdotes" be damned.

Whatever IM2 knows about the history of slavery and racism in America, he is completely full of shit when it comes to pretty much anything else and is a rabid racist. And, for the life of me, I cannot understand why people like you and rightwinger continue to kiss his ass when all we ever hear from him is "Shut the fuck up white boy", "No white person is going to tell me..." or "You white assholes...". It truly amazes me.



Grumble has been clear, about the fact that he is deferring to IM2 on this, because his "minority perspective".


I would like to ask him, how that is not a racist belief that blacks are morally superior to whites, but I know that he could not address such a question. At all.


I actually doubt that he could comprehend it. I think his brain would freeze up and he would not be able to understand the question.
 

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