The First Black Republican Presidential Nominee Will Be.....

[IM2]

Many outside of the African American or other non-white communities do not seem to understand to what extent racism can drive a person to unhealthy and societally negative behaviors.

I am a white man, and I guarantee I have been the victim of racism more often than you and more severely.

Have you ever been beaten up because of your race? I have.
Have you ever been denied a place to live because of your race? I have.
Have you ever been evicted because of your race? I have.
Have you ever been turned down for a job because of your race? I have.
Have you ever been denied entrance into a nightclub because of your race? I have.
Have you ever been charged more for goods because of your race? I have.
Have you ever paid more for an entrance ticket because of your race? I have.
Have you ever been lynched because of your race? I have. (I was being literally stoned to death with my dog at the hands of a murderous black mob on the corner of Port St and Lanvale in Baltimore and only survived thanks to the heroism of a black woman.)

So fuck you and your constant whining about white racism, you pathetic, bitter little thing. Blacks all over the world are risking their lives to move to majority white countries because blacks have it better, not worse, where whites are in charge.

Ignorant, ungrateful, uneducated fool.

You have not faced racism more than I have or more severely. You have not faced all of the things you claim. In fact I doubt if you faced any with the exception of maybe the last one and given the racism you post here, you probably started that. Had you faced any of those things you could have filed law suits and pressed charges. So you should be a multimillionaire about right now for all the racial discrimination you say you have faced. There aren't all that many blacks leaving and moving into majority white countries. The continent of Africa has 4 times the number of people we have here and most of them aren't going anywhere. I will be continuing to talk about white racism until it does not exist in America or until the number of racists are so small they can't get elected into office or hold any positions of responsibility. So if you don't like it, fuck you.

 

[IM2]

Being offended is far different from being scared son. But since I am such a pussy, I guess that means you will engage in a discussion of white racism after slavery.

Nope. You don't want discussion. You want to spew your Hate Whitey garbage and get instant, unthinking endorsement. I don't do that. I am not a leftist.

I understand your fear. If citing historical fact is hate whitey, maybe whitey should not have done the things recorded.

It's hilarious the way you believe I'm afraid of anything you could possibly say.

I am not a leftist. I don't operate solely on emotion.

Did whitey do bad things? Of course. So has every other race and ethnicity...including your own.

But you can't seem to work up much outrage for any of that, can you?

I operate on fact son. You don't want to discuss the facts. No one in America has done what whitey has done. That's why you run from the conversation.

Meanwhile, there are people still owning human beings in the world.

But since they're not whitey, you don't give a shit.

But whitey must pay, right?

Since slavery is no longer legal in America, there seems to be an inability for white racists to discuss the continuing racism by whites in America since slavery has ended. You don't care about slavery around the world, you use it to try dismissing the racism people like you still exhibit here in America. Why? Because you don't talk about European slavery when you do so. So again, I understand your cowardice relative to the inability you have to discuss the continuance of white racism in America since slavery ended. And you certainly do not want to discuss the worldwide picture of white imperialism which continues today in most of the world.

You are out of your league here junior and the information you read at stormfront won't help you if you continue with this cowardice.

 

[daveman]

Nope. You don't want discussion. You want to spew your Hate Whitey garbage and get instant, unthinking endorsement. I don't do that. I am not a leftist.

I understand your fear. If citing historical fact is hate whitey, maybe whitey should not have done the things recorded.

It's hilarious the way you believe I'm afraid of anything you could possibly say.

I am not a leftist. I don't operate solely on emotion.

Did whitey do bad things? Of course. So has every other race and ethnicity...including your own.

But you can't seem to work up much outrage for any of that, can you?

I operate on fact son. You don't want to discuss the facts. No one in America has done what whitey has done. That's why you run from the conversation.

Meanwhile, there are people still owning human beings in the world.

But since they're not whitey, you don't give a shit.

But whitey must pay, right?

Since slavery is no longer legal in America, there seems to be an inability for white racists to discuss the continuing racism by whites in America since slavery has ended. You don't care about slavery around the world, you use it to try dismissing the racism people like you still exhibit here in America. Why? Because you don't talk about European slavery when you do so. So again, I understand your cowardice relative to the inability you have to discuss the continuance of white racism in America since slavery ended. And you certainly do not want to discuss the worldwide picture of white imperialism which continues today in most of the world.

You are out of your league here junior and the information you read at stormfront won't help you if you continue with this cowardice.

I've talked about European slavery. If you have to lie to make your point, your point isn't worth making.

And no, once again, just because I don't kiss your ass like the white leftists here, that doesn't make me racist. That argument is old and busted.

Run along now, kid. I suggest you find someplace on the internet where your racism isn't challenged.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Note: It needs 2. Not just 1. Two erect phallic symbols.. to compensate for its woeful lack of substance..

 

[Grumblenuts]

Many outside of the African American or other non-white communities do not seem to understand to what extent racism can drive a person to unhealthy and societally negative behaviors.

I am a white man, and I guarantee I have been the victim of racism more often than you and more severely.

Have you ever been beaten up because of your race? I have.
Have you ever been denied a place to live because of your race? I have.
Have you ever been evicted because of your race? I have.
Have you ever been turned down for a job because of your race? I have.
Have you ever been denied entrance into a nightclub because of your race? I have.
Have you ever been charged more for goods because of your race? I have.
Have you ever paid more for an entrance ticket because of your race? I have.
Have you ever been lynched because of your race? I have. (I was being literally stoned to death with my dog at the hands of a murderous black mob on the corner of Port St and Lanvale in Baltimore and only survived thanks to the heroism of a black woman.)

So fuck you and your constant whining about white racism, you pathetic, bitter little thing. Blacks all over the world are risking their lives to move to majority white countries because blacks have it better, not worse, where whites are in charge.

Ignorant, ungrateful, uneducated fool.

Sure. Uh huh. I too have experienced Baltimore away from the harbor district. Meanwhile..

Just over a century ago, in 1911, the Baltimore city council adopted the first residential segregation law in the country, forbidding black people from living in predominantly white neighborhoods. Though the Supreme Court ruled such policies unconstitutional seven years later, the consequences of the law, as well as the consequences of subsequent racist policies and practices like redlining, the displacement of black families, and mass incarceration remain. Today, Baltimore is one of the most segregated cities in the nation, where black residents make up a majority of the population but do worse than the average black American—and far worse than the average white Baltimore resident—on almost every measure of general well-being.

eta:

on the corner of Port St and Lanvale in Baltimore

LOL. Readers check out the street view on Google.. a great hang out spot, day or night.. no doubt!)

 

[Correll]

Being able to accurately describe racist ideas and people is important, as anti-white racism, such as from you and im2, is so widespread. That is why is it important

Oh "anti-white racism" "is so widespread" now? So "important"? How about anti-black racism? Anti-woman sexism? Anti-gay bigotry? I'm sure they all just pale in comparison. Such a bundle of joy and compassion, you are.. Boggles the mind!

Correct. Anti-white racism is not only legally enforced by the government, but widely accepted by society and indeed, celebrated by it.

EVERY major institution in this country, has stated policies and programs of increasing minority hiring and promotion, whether out of genuine desire to make up for past disadvantages or just to avoid being sued for an accusation of perceived under representation.


If you have a policy of giving preferential treatment to one group, in hiring and promotions, lets say, hypothetically speaking, blacks, then you by the concept of SIMPLE SUBTRACTION, you have to give less of that to other groups, lets say hypothetically speaking, whites.


Your denial of this simple and painfully obvious fact, is you being completely and blindly ideologically indoctrinated past the ability to think.



The desire of people like you and IM2, to deny us the ability to speak of anti-white racism, or black racists, is because on some level you know this to be true, and that the only way you can win the Contest of Ideas, is by suppressing the arguments of your opponents.


That is why this is important. This is the first line of defense of absolutely insanely bad liberal policies that any sane world would have shit canned decades ago.

 

[Correll]

Being able to accurately describe racist ideas and people is important, as anti-white racism, such as from you and im2, is so widespread. That is why is it important

Oh "anti-white racism" "is so widespread" now? So "important"? How about anti-black racism? Anti-woman sexism? Anti-gay bigotry? I'm sure they all just pale in comparison. Such a bundle of joy and compassion, you are.. Boggles the mind!

White male fragility syndrome is quite widespread. Note the shrill victimy moans of the white males who bought into the glory of American style capitalism only to have their livelihoods outsourced to communists by the capitalists they trusted. Now we're all shocked at the locally empty shelves we used to scoff at in other countries we attacked with sanctions and blockades we placed at the behest of our capitalists.

Didn't happen overnight, did indeed happen bipaertisanly. It's a bit to digest and confront if one has not been paying attention for decades I suppose.

1. The "shrill" tone is in your head, you faggot. This is a political discussion forum. That we white males are here expressing our disagreement with your lefty policies is the idea (as is the reverse). That you would cast shade on us for it, is just you being an asshole.

2. The debate on Globalism/Free Trade vs America First, was the whole point of Trump's primary campaign. Did you really miss that? The Right is not a hive mind like you lefties. There are different voices because different people have different ideas. I know that is beyond your comprehension, so I don't know why I even put it in there.


3. The Capitalists are not the ones who push for sanctions. The capitalists have, as a group, bought into the idea of Globalism and Free Trade, decades ago.

4. You are the one that has obviously not been paying attention. Hint: Read up on the Trump primary campaign. NOt from lefty sites, from pro-trump ones.

 

[katsteve2012]

It was a racist show written for morons and it is an embarrassment for anyone to admit they liked it.

No, there is nothing "wrong with me" because I do not share your particular taste in TV programs, and for you to even make a statement like that, makes YOU a pompous ass, not me. Obviously the show would have some regional appeal. By your own admission you were in a rust belt area where some people identified with the characters of the show, that's human nature.

I personally do not care who liked the show and who did not, nor am I judging anyone who did. It's not a big deal to me.

But you questioning my personal preferences as far as television shows, makes you someone who clearly has far too much time on their hands.

You nor me, nor anyone else "Knows what EVERYONE in America actually thought of the show", as you stated.

That is a ridiculous and illogical overstatement, because no one has the psychic ability to have such knowledge.

We have differing views of the Confederate flag and that amounts to what it is......different opinions, which has nothing to do with who watches what on television.

You are an extremely small and petty individual.

You'll understand if I don't hold my breath waiting for you to chastise rightwinger for what you're chastising Correll for.

Because everyone involved knows you're not going to do that.

What RW says to another poster, is his business, not mine.

I'm not a moderator here, so what is your point?

Pointing out leftist hypocrisy is a hobby of mine.

IT has nothing to do with anyone being on the "left, right or middle", and you know it.

It is you attempting to persuade another poster to say something against a poster that you disagree with in order to defend yet another poster that you are obviously in agreement with.

That is some childish, petty bullshit.

I dont see you "chastising" anyone who you think is on the so called called "right", so work on your own hypocrisy, and consider finding a new "hobby"

 

[Grumblenuts]

we white males are here

Meaning you still statistically far advantaged crybabies? Sorry, white and male here, but all grown up. Now put your pants on and quit playing with that orange Matchbox toy.

 

[Correll]

Therefore, if I was to say something about blacks and fried chicken, you would say I'm a racist with no hesitation, without even ascertaining whether or not I think blacks are inferior, would you not?

Of course not. You're communicating a racial slur or stereotype, but further context is required to conclude one is "racist" else the term is simply superfluous. As IM2 has stated, some form of abuse has to be evident. Actual harm must be detectable. When blacks refer to one another as "nigga" it's all in good fun. Supremacist whites doing it to express their shared belief of superiority is the opposite. To put or keep blacks in their place. Abuse and harm clearly intended. Chris Rock using racial stereotypes in an effort to help us all laugh together at ourselves is not being racist.

Whites eat fried chicken, whites have made millions off fried chicken franchises and in the farming, processing and distribution of chickens, so to talk about blacks and chicken is portraying a racist stereotype that needs to stop.

What is the harm to you, of stating that "blacks like fried chicken"?


After all, that is the standard you and Grumble are pushing.

 

[Correll]

we white males are here

Meaning you still statistically far advantaged crybabies? Sorry, white and male here, but all grown up. Now put your pants on and quit playing with that orange Matchbox toy.

Wow. That was insanely cowardly of you to cut EVERYTHING from my post and then address an out of context phrase and strawman it.


That is the type of thing one does, when one knows he has lost the argument, but refuses to admit it.


My point was that the other poster was attacking us, "white males" for expressing disagreements. On a political discussion forum.


That was stupid when the other poster did it, and it is just as stupid for you to do it now.


Try to have some self respect. Do you even know what you just made yourself look like?

 

[katsteve2012]

Frankly, I'm surprised how civil our black members remain in light of all the shameless white supremacist commentary easily found daily on this forum. Some of you lily white pansies really need to put away your popguns and try on a pair of big boy pants.

Forums like this one are a dime a dozen. This particular one just seems to have more of an appeal to a radical fringe more so than others.

It is where some of them congregate to express their frustration at what they perceive to be a societal assault upon them by minorities(blacks specifically) who they believe are aligned with liberal whites in a conspiracy to "disenfranchise" them.

Black posters are a small minority here, so of course, of the few who are here, most of us observe more than speak and actually view this forum as a free glimpse from a distance into the psychosis of the fragile mentality of SOME in the majority.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Therefore, if I was to say something about blacks and fried chicken, you would say I'm a racist with no hesitation, without even ascertaining whether or not I think blacks are inferior, would you not?

Of course not. You're communicating a racial slur or stereotype, but further context is required to conclude one is "racist" else the term is simply superfluous. As IM2 has stated, some form of abuse has to be evident. Actual harm must be detectable. When blacks refer to one another as "nigga" it's all in good fun. Supremacist whites doing it to express their shared belief of superiority is the opposite. To put or keep blacks in their place. Abuse and harm clearly intended. Chris Rock using racial stereotypes in an effort to help us all laugh together at ourselves is not being racist.

Whites eat fried chicken, whites have made millions off fried chicken franchises and in the farming, processing and distribution of chickens, so to talk about blacks and chicken is portraying a racist stereotype that needs to stop.

What is the harm to you, of stating that "blacks like fried chicken"?


After all, that is the standard you and Grumble are pushing.

I'm not sure who exactly IM2 was addressing here. If it was me he was addressing, I didn't say anything about blacks and fried chicken. I simply used that as an example that IF I was to say something about blacks and fried chicken, I would likely be considered racist.

Or he may have been correcting Grumblefish. I wasn't sure so I just decided to say nothing.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Being able to accurately describe racist ideas and people is important, as anti-white racism, such as from you and im2, is so widespread. That is why is it important

Oh "anti-white racism" "is so widespread" now? So "important"? How about anti-black racism? Anti-woman sexism? Anti-gay bigotry? I'm sure they all just pale in comparison. Such a bundle of joy and compassion, you are.. Boggles the mind!

Correct. Anti-white racism is not only legally enforced by the government, but widely accepted by society and indeed, celebrated by it.

EVERY major institution in this country, has stated policies and programs of increasing minority hiring and promotion, whether out of genuine desire to make up for past disadvantages or just to avoid being sued for an accusation of perceived under representation.


If you have a policy of giving preferential treatment to one group, in hiring and promotions, lets say, hypothetically speaking, blacks, then you by the concept of SIMPLE SUBTRACTION, you have to give less of that to other groups, lets say hypothetically speaking, whites.


Your denial of this simple and painfully obvious fact, is you being completely and blindly ideologically indoctrinated past the ability to think.

Face it, you're either a completely disingenuous idiot or just an idiot. Striving for nationwide demographic equality is not racism. It's attempting to level the playing field so that all can enjoy roughly equal security and access to our nation's bounty. It's a predictably messy, inexact science, but obviously beats the alternative which is to ignore the gross inequality and keep pretending all is swell. Yes, some have to make do with less than that to which they have grown accustomed so that others may have enough. You'll just have pull yourself up by your goddamned bootstraps and get over it. The end result will be a far happier, more productive society.

 

[katsteve2012]

No, there is nothing "wrong with me" because I do not share your particular taste in TV programs, and for you to even make a statement like that, makes YOU a pompous ass, not me.

I personally do not care who liked the show and who did not, nor am I judging anyone who did.

For you to question my personal preferences as far as television shows, truly makes you someone who clearly has too much time on their hands.

You nor me, nor anyone else "Knows what EVERYONE in America actually thought of the show", as you stated.

That is a ridiculous and illogical overstatement, because no one has the psychic ability to have such knowledge.

We have differing views of the Confederate flag and that amounts to what it is......different opinions, which has nothing to do with who watches what on television.

You are an extremely small and petty individual.

Your position is that the symbol(s) represent racism and slavery and secession.


IN a society, where the symbols have, at least until recently, been widely accepted, as demonstrated by my example of the Dukes of Hazzard, this is not a "petty" point.


If you are correct, then we live in a society, where until very recently extremely racist symbols, and thus, the racism they symbolize was widely accepted and celebrated.


If I am correct, then we live in a society where, until very recently, symbols of regional pride, and thus the regional pride they symbolize were widely accepted and celebrated.


My use of the show, to examine this point, is brilliant. You should read the reviews. They are a window into the people who liked the show and what they were and who they are.


They are not racist or bad people, as would be expected, in your world.


I am going out on a limb in saying this, btw, I only looked at the first 5 or 6 reviews.


Maybe if you read them all you can find that further down, the vast majority are from Evul White Men who loved the public celebration of Evul Racism, for the Evulness of it all., or something like that that would support your world view.


If you find that, you could really crush me. If you are confident in your worldview, I would think that you would expect to find a good deal of that, in the reviews.


So, are you going to look? Or do you prefer to just make assumptions about people you don't know, and don't like?

My "position" is one of someone who did not just read in passing in an old history book about symbols of oppression. I actually saw them in effect as realities, unlike you.

The same filthy animals that threw urine and feces on my parents at a PEACEFUL civil rights march down south in the 60's were waving confederate flags.

In the context of historic timelines, it was not that long ago that I experienced what I did, so for you to speculate about and then attempt to judge what MY perception is of something that was offensive to ME and many others in an environment that you did not experience during a time when you were not even born is not "brilliant" by any means.


Using a television show, that I did not watch nor had an interest in as a means to justify your defense of this symbol is nothing more than you expressing your opinion.

IT IS NOT THE SHOW. IT IS THAT AMERICA AS A WHOLE ACCEPTED IT'S PORTRAYAL OF THE SYMBOLS AS HARMLESS AND NOT RACIST.

If "everyone in America" was as accepting as you claim of the "symbol" that you are so determined to defend as "harmless" the independent networks would still be running syndicated episodes of it.

Was accepting. Since then, you lefties have grown in power and intolerance and become more aggressive in The Culture War. But what happened in the more recent past, does not change the historical record of over 150 years of acceptance.

But obviously there were enough people who resented the shows use of a Confederate flag caricature to prompt even reruns of the show to be cancelled.

This is just you defending what you casually view as a symbol of "regional pride", which you are certainly entitled to do, just as I am entitled as many others are to view it as I do.

I read your cut and pasted reviews of the show, and like any other show, it had a following by a certain audience, and also,like any other show, it appealed to SOME people, but not ALL people.

Quite a lot of people. But more to the point, none of them, AND none of those that did not watch the show, seemed to have any problem with the depiction of the symbols as harmless regional pride.

I looked. I was hoping to find some report of some small group that made a fuss and was ignored, and/or laughed at.

But I could find NOTHING. Not one peep.

By your own admission, your views and platform of reasoning revolves around defending everything that you believe to be related to the values of white society in America, no matter what.

Incorrect. Try again without the spin.

But it also appears that anyone who has self interests based on their life experiences that are not aligned with your views, you seem to perceive as a threat to your defense of what you believe in.

That is what I am referring to as being "small and petty".

Your belief system is yours to support, however you are in no position to judge my life experiences and beliefs, or those of others as an assault upon yours.

I do when they are an assault on my views and my heritage and my interests. Or, "or".

That has nothing to do with me "making assumptions about people that I don't know of dislike" as you claim.

I do not have any emotional investment to contribute towards "liking or disliking" complete strangers whose beliefs happen to be different than mine, but I do reserve the right to not share their views for my own reasons.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...ukes-of-hazzard-yanked-from-tv-land/29571785/

Do you admit that the people of the 1980s, who endorsed the celebration of the symbols of the Confederate Flag and The General Lee,

were doing so, in their view, as harmless symbols of regional pride, and thus for you to judge them, or treat them as though they were celebrating those symbols as though they agreed with YOU, that they were symbols of racism,


would be wrong of you?

One last time. S L O W L Y. Before I depart from this silly circular argument that you are so intent on engaging in:


1. I do not care if YOU or anyone else sees your Confederate flag as a "harmless symbol of regional pride that has stood for 150 years".

I witnessed it being present in the hands of racist, anti civil rights scum in the early 1960's. In case you did not realize it, the 1960's were LESS than 60 years ago. So you can stop wasting your time trying to convince me that most of the country has viewed it as "harmless" for that length of time.

Why do you give those relatively few racists what they want ie the power to co-opt those symbols for their purposes?

2. I will not admit to something that I disagree with for the sake of making you comfortable.

But on what grounds can you disagree with me? The evidence from the show is clear, good clean fun.

3. I am not "incorrect" in my view of what your so called "positions" revolve around. It is obvious that anything that you remotely perceive as not being aligned with your extremely radical, far right, pro white agenda, you consider to be an assault on ALL white people, as a self proclaimed spokesperson for that demographic, evidenced by your attempt to lecture me on a topic that you have no understanding of or experience with.

My understanding and experience is just as valid as your own. We live in an insane world, were you can say something like, "your views are invalid because you are white", and expect to be taken seriously.

3. Your insistence on labeling others who do not agree with your views as "lefties" is a tactic that you default to in nearly every thread that I've seen you present in. And then after that, you progress to "race baiting asshole" as your next level of defense. Which is exactly why I normally don't respond to much of what you have to say.

Most rabidly political zealots of any kind are normally impossible to reason with. And I usually don't waste valuable time attempting to do so.

For a number of posts in a row, you've managed to be relatively civil and actually address the topic and my points, seriously and I believe, honesty.


Note how I have replied in kind.


I treat people with the level of respect they show me. When you see me calling people "lefties" or "race baiting assholes" it is because they have taken the discussion to that level.


If you withdraw from the conversation at this point, it is not because I have been rude to you. I have not. So, don't kid yourself with that excuse.

Therefore I am agreeing to disagree and you are entitled to your views, but realize that you are nowhere near informed enough and lack the life experience to be critical of mine.

View attachment 313841

So, all you have to refute my many cited examples, from the BLue and Grey Reunion, to the Dukes of Hazzard, to Obama sending a wreath to the Confederate Memorial,


is that I am white, and thus my views can be discounted.

Again, for the 100th time. I personally do not care what race you are, nor do I personally care what your PERSONAL perception of the Confederate flag is. That is your right. To view it as you wish.....based on YOUR experience. As it is mine. to view it as I do.

My difference of opinion from yours is mainly generational and part geographical.

What you continue to sidestep is that since you ARE white, you NEVER were part of a demographic that was denied the most basic of civil rights, and you NEVER witnessed your own family having human waste thrown on them by "people" WAVING CONFEDERATE FLAGS for peacefully demonstrating.

Unlike you, to me that so called "symbol of regional pride" represents a culture that could return if given enough acceptance, and is not harmless in my view.

A swastika could just as easily be viewed as a harmless symbol as well....by certain people.

You are futilely attempting to make a point to the wrong person on this subject.

I agreed to disagree.

Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

 

[Correll]

Being able to accurately describe racist ideas and people is important, as anti-white racism, such as from you and im2, is so widespread. That is why is it important

Oh "anti-white racism" "is so widespread" now? So "important"? How about anti-black racism? Anti-woman sexism? Anti-gay bigotry? I'm sure they all just pale in comparison. Such a bundle of joy and compassion, you are.. Boggles the mind!

Correct. Anti-white racism is not only legally enforced by the government, but widely accepted by society and indeed, celebrated by it.

EVERY major institution in this country, has stated policies and programs of increasing minority hiring and promotion, whether out of genuine desire to make up for past disadvantages or just to avoid being sued for an accusation of perceived under representation.


If you have a policy of giving preferential treatment to one group, in hiring and promotions, lets say, hypothetically speaking, blacks, then you by the concept of SIMPLE SUBTRACTION, you have to give less of that to other groups, lets say hypothetically speaking, whites.


Your denial of this simple and painfully obvious fact, is you being completely and blindly ideologically indoctrinated past the ability to think.

Face it, you're either a completely disingenuous idiot or just an idiot. Striving for nationwide demographic equality is not racism. It's attempting to level the playing field so that all can enjoy roughly equal security and access to our nation's bounty. It's a predictably messy, inexact science, but obviously beats the alternative which is to ignore the gross inequality and keep pretending all is swell. Yes, some have to make do with less than that to which they have grown accustomed so that others may have enough. You'll just have pull yourself up by your goddamned bootstraps and get over it. The end result will be a far happier, more productive society.

1. "striving" for equal outcomes, while ignoring unequal accomplishments, requires discrimination. Racist discrimination.You are supporting systemic, universal , government enforced racism.


2. It is not about having "less than I have grown accustomed to" but NOT HAVING EQUAL TREATMENT AND RIGHTS, you pompous and racist ass.


3. The end will not be a "happier society". More and more, the largest single ethnic group is growing more and more resentful of being discriminated against and oppressed. All the while people like you and IM2, are encouraging in minorities an expectation of ever increasing Privilege (in the medieval sense of the word). THat is not a recipe for a "happy and productive society" but for one torn apart by racial tribalism and eventually violence.

 

[Correll]

Your position is that the symbol(s) represent racism and slavery and secession.


IN a society, where the symbols have, at least until recently, been widely accepted, as demonstrated by my example of the Dukes of Hazzard, this is not a "petty" point.


If you are correct, then we live in a society, where until very recently extremely racist symbols, and thus, the racism they symbolize was widely accepted and celebrated.


If I am correct, then we live in a society where, until very recently, symbols of regional pride, and thus the regional pride they symbolize were widely accepted and celebrated.


My use of the show, to examine this point, is brilliant. You should read the reviews. They are a window into the people who liked the show and what they were and who they are.


They are not racist or bad people, as would be expected, in your world.


I am going out on a limb in saying this, btw, I only looked at the first 5 or 6 reviews.


Maybe if you read them all you can find that further down, the vast majority are from Evul White Men who loved the public celebration of Evul Racism, for the Evulness of it all., or something like that that would support your world view.


If you find that, you could really crush me. If you are confident in your worldview, I would think that you would expect to find a good deal of that, in the reviews.


So, are you going to look? Or do you prefer to just make assumptions about people you don't know, and don't like?

My "position" is one of someone who did not just read in passing in an old history book about symbols of oppression. I actually saw them in effect as realities, unlike you.

The same filthy animals that threw urine and feces on my parents at a PEACEFUL civil rights march down south in the 60's were waving confederate flags.

In the context of historic timelines, it was not that long ago that I experienced what I did, so for you to speculate about and then attempt to judge what MY perception is of something that was offensive to ME and many others in an environment that you did not experience during a time when you were not even born is not "brilliant" by any means.


Using a television show, that I did not watch nor had an interest in as a means to justify your defense of this symbol is nothing more than you expressing your opinion.

IT IS NOT THE SHOW. IT IS THAT AMERICA AS A WHOLE ACCEPTED IT'S PORTRAYAL OF THE SYMBOLS AS HARMLESS AND NOT RACIST.

If "everyone in America" was as accepting as you claim of the "symbol" that you are so determined to defend as "harmless" the independent networks would still be running syndicated episodes of it.

Was accepting. Since then, you lefties have grown in power and intolerance and become more aggressive in The Culture War. But what happened in the more recent past, does not change the historical record of over 150 years of acceptance.

But obviously there were enough people who resented the shows use of a Confederate flag caricature to prompt even reruns of the show to be cancelled.

This is just you defending what you casually view as a symbol of "regional pride", which you are certainly entitled to do, just as I am entitled as many others are to view it as I do.

I read your cut and pasted reviews of the show, and like any other show, it had a following by a certain audience, and also,like any other show, it appealed to SOME people, but not ALL people.

Quite a lot of people. But more to the point, none of them, AND none of those that did not watch the show, seemed to have any problem with the depiction of the symbols as harmless regional pride.

I looked. I was hoping to find some report of some small group that made a fuss and was ignored, and/or laughed at.

But I could find NOTHING. Not one peep.

By your own admission, your views and platform of reasoning revolves around defending everything that you believe to be related to the values of white society in America, no matter what.

Incorrect. Try again without the spin.

But it also appears that anyone who has self interests based on their life experiences that are not aligned with your views, you seem to perceive as a threat to your defense of what you believe in.

That is what I am referring to as being "small and petty".

Your belief system is yours to support, however you are in no position to judge my life experiences and beliefs, or those of others as an assault upon yours.

I do when they are an assault on my views and my heritage and my interests. Or, "or".

That has nothing to do with me "making assumptions about people that I don't know of dislike" as you claim.

I do not have any emotional investment to contribute towards "liking or disliking" complete strangers whose beliefs happen to be different than mine, but I do reserve the right to not share their views for my own reasons.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...ukes-of-hazzard-yanked-from-tv-land/29571785/

Do you admit that the people of the 1980s, who endorsed the celebration of the symbols of the Confederate Flag and The General Lee,

were doing so, in their view, as harmless symbols of regional pride, and thus for you to judge them, or treat them as though they were celebrating those symbols as though they agreed with YOU, that they were symbols of racism,


would be wrong of you?

One last time. S L O W L Y. Before I depart from this silly circular argument that you are so intent on engaging in:


1. I do not care if YOU or anyone else sees your Confederate flag as a "harmless symbol of regional pride that has stood for 150 years".

I witnessed it being present in the hands of racist, anti civil rights scum in the early 1960's. In case you did not realize it, the 1960's were LESS than 60 years ago. So you can stop wasting your time trying to convince me that most of the country has viewed it as "harmless" for that length of time.

Why do you give those relatively few racists what they want ie the power to co-opt those symbols for their purposes?

2. I will not admit to something that I disagree with for the sake of making you comfortable.

But on what grounds can you disagree with me? The evidence from the show is clear, good clean fun.

3. I am not "incorrect" in my view of what your so called "positions" revolve around. It is obvious that anything that you remotely perceive as not being aligned with your extremely radical, far right, pro white agenda, you consider to be an assault on ALL white people, as a self proclaimed spokesperson for that demographic, evidenced by your attempt to lecture me on a topic that you have no understanding of or experience with.

My understanding and experience is just as valid as your own. We live in an insane world, were you can say something like, "your views are invalid because you are white", and expect to be taken seriously.

3. Your insistence on labeling others who do not agree with your views as "lefties" is a tactic that you default to in nearly every thread that I've seen you present in. And then after that, you progress to "race baiting asshole" as your next level of defense. Which is exactly why I normally don't respond to much of what you have to say.

Most rabidly political zealots of any kind are normally impossible to reason with. And I usually don't waste valuable time attempting to do so.

For a number of posts in a row, you've managed to be relatively civil and actually address the topic and my points, seriously and I believe, honesty.


Note how I have replied in kind.


I treat people with the level of respect they show me. When you see me calling people "lefties" or "race baiting assholes" it is because they have taken the discussion to that level.


If you withdraw from the conversation at this point, it is not because I have been rude to you. I have not. So, don't kid yourself with that excuse.

Therefore I am agreeing to disagree and you are entitled to your views, but realize that you are nowhere near informed enough and lack the life experience to be critical of mine.

View attachment 313841

So, all you have to refute my many cited examples, from the BLue and Grey Reunion, to the Dukes of Hazzard, to Obama sending a wreath to the Confederate Memorial,


is that I am white, and thus my views can be discounted.

Again, for the 100th time. I personally do not care what race you are, nor do I personally care what your PERSONAL perception of the Confederate flag is.

My difference of opinion from yours is mainly generational and part geographical.

What you continue to sidestep is that since you ARE white, you NEVER were part of a demographic that was denied the most basic of civil rights, and you NEVER witnessed your own family having human waste thrown on them by "people" WAVING CONFEDERATE FLAGS for peacefully demonstrating.

Unlike you, to me that so called "symbol of regional pride" represents a culture that could return if given enough acceptance, and is not harmless in my view.

A swastika could just as easily be viewed as a harmless symbol as well....by certain people.

You are futilely attempting to make a point to the wrong person on this subject.

I agreed to disagree.

Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

1. So, you open by stating that you do not care what my race is.

2. Then you immediately cite my race as a reason to dismiss my views. IMMEDIATELY.

3. My views and experiences are just as valid as yours.

4. The Union vets who accepted the flying of the Confederate Flag at the Blue and Grey Reunion in Gettysburgh, they fought for years, many were wounded, or lost limbs, saw friends and family killed. How does your moral authority trump theirs?

5. Attacking whites for having any pride in their culture and/or heritage, is what you want to do IF YOU WANT A RETURN TO WHITE RACISM AGAINST YOU AND YOURS. Do you think that tearing down those statues and banning those flags are going to build feelings of inclusion and tolerance in whites, or the exact opposite?

 

[Grumblenuts]

 

[Grumblenuts]

More and more, the largest single ethnic group is growing more and more resentful of being discriminated against and oppressed.

 

[Correll]

[....QUOTE]


Yep. And yet you want equal outcome, despite a massive education gap.

So, how you going to do that?

By discriminating in favor of blacks, at the expense of whites.