The Fundamental Limitations of Renewable Energy

[ScienceRocks]

The Fundamental Limitations of Renewable Energy


Renewables and Physical Limitation | The Energy Collective

Many people still think that it will not be long before renewable energy such as solar and wind becomes outright cheaper than fossil fuels, thereby leading to a rapid expansion of the thin orange slither in the graph below. This is an ideologically very attractive notion, but, as discussed in this article, it is questionable whether this is in fact physically possible.

So, what does renewable energy have to accomplish before it can compete with fossil fuels in an open market? Well, in short, we will have to overcome the diffuse and intermittent nature of renewable energy more efficiently than we can overcome the declining reserve qualities and unrefined nature of fossil fuels.

In other words, renewables need to overcome the following two challenges in order to displace fossil fuels in a fair market:
1.Solar panels and wind turbines need to become cheaper than raw fossil fuels. This is the challenge posed by the diffuse nature of renewables.
2.Storage solutions need to become cheaper than fossil fuel refineries (e.g. power plants). This is the challenge posed by the intermittent nature of renewables.

Point number 1 is the way in which we procure our energy (mining/drilling fossil fuels or deploying solar panels and wind turbines) and point number 2 is the way in which we make this energy useful to society at higher levels of penetration (refining fossil fuels to electricity or smoothing out the intermittent surges of renewable energy). Without point number 1, point number 2 cannot exist and without point number 2, the energy procured in point number 1 cannot sustain a complex society such as ours.

Thus, if renewables are to challenge fossil fuels in an open market, technology must advance to the point where renewables can compete under both these points. This article will examine whether this is in fact possible.

The diffuse nature of renewables

Renewable energy advocates often point to the total energy fluxes of the Earth (below) and proclaim that renewable energy resources are essentially boundless. Yes, it is true: we are surrounded by incredible amounts of diffuse renewable energy (e.g. solar radiation and wind). Unfortunately, however, this energy is useless to us unless it is concentrated into forms such as electricity or fuels.

This is a great write up of the weaknesses that we have to over move totally away from fossil fuels.

Fusion is the only way!

 

[flacaltenn]

There are many more than just the 2 hurdles that the author mentions for "renewables"..

#3 --- In the case of wind -- it's reliability is so bad that it can't really be marketed in an advanced society. You cannot guarantee delivery on a contract, so grid operators have no way of buying it for future use. Solar comes closer to being scheduled and marketed and contracted, but can never guarantee delivery either.. Impossible to use a futures market to predict supply and demand.

#4 ---- When you EXPAND grid capacity, you need to build out the PRIMARY generators first. These are the plants that are gonna get thru the times when the wind don't blow and the sun doesn't shine. You cannot EXPAND grid capacity on the backs of wind and solar alone.. They are SUPPLEMENTS --- not Alternatives.. So now -- because the govt MANDATES that you have to take WIND and SOLAR onto the grid when available, you've got a major disincentive for private investors to build PRIMARY generators. Who wants to invest in a nat gas plant that can't operate 4 or 5 hours a day??? The wear and tear is still there --- the labor is still there.. But you're not making any money.. The utility rate payers are paying for dumped energy and TWO generators whenever someone builds a wind facility..

#5 ---- The author never mentioned the restrictions on SITING wind and solar. There are sweet spots in the country where these things make sense. The Germans stupidly paid for TONS of solar in areas with brutal winters or bad solar insolation numbers and they are paying the price for that lunacy now.. IN FACT, the efficiencies for both wind and solar are being pushed RIGHT NOW. With taxpayers picking up the bill to force solar as far north as Canada and wind into places where it will be much worst than the industry average of about 35% of the stated turbine capability..

His "bubble" chart is somewhat misleading since it tallies the solar irradiation for areas on the planet that really are not suited for solar efficiency.. Actually, I doubt it even makes it to 1/2 that size..

 

[waltky]

Full article has lotsa good links and sources...

America's Solar Energy Potential
Every hour, the sun radiates more energy onto the earth than the entire human population uses in one whole year.

The technology required to harness the power of the sun is available now. Solar power alone could provide all of the energy Americans consume — there is no shortage of solar energy. The following paragraphs will give you the information you need to prove this to yourself and others. You do not need advanced math skills to follow and perform the arithmetic examples shown below. Anyone who can balance a checkbook or calculate the total square feet of floor space in his or her home, and understand why an area measuring 10 yards by 10 yards equals 100 square yards, can perform the following arithmetic examples and prove that American energy independence could be achieved with solar energy alone.

Science tells us that every square meter of the earth's surface, when exposed to direct sunlight, receives about 1000 watts (1 kilowatt) of energy from the sun's light. Depending on the angle of sunlight, which changes with the time of day, and the geographical location [see map below], the power of the sun's light will be somewhat more or less than 1 kilowatt-hour per hour for every square meter of the earth's surface exposed to the sun.

Solar Energy R&D: Solar cost decreases 10% per year

On average, and particularly in the Sunbelt regions of the Southwestern United States, every square meter area exposed to direct sunlight will receive about 1 kilowatt-hour per hour of solar energy. However, scientists estimate that sunlight will provide useful solar energy for only about 6 to 7 hours per day because during the early hours and late hours of the day the angle of the sun's light is too low. So, for example, if the sun's light provides 6 productive hours of solar energy per day, then a square meter of land in direct sunlight will receive about 6 kilowatt-hours of solar energy during the course of a day.

More Solar Energy and Energy Independence

 

[elektra]

Who cares how much the Sun shines or the Wind blows. We have sources of energy that outperform either for a fraction of the cost as well as using a fraction of the Earths resources.

Yea, I can not wait until next years Solar and Wind technology turns the all these "World's Largest non producing Wind and Solar Farms" into obsolete garbage!!

Hell, that is already happening.

Either way, what a waste of Copper, what a waste of Silica, how many millions of tons for what, nothing, zero.

We get nothing but extremely high energy costs, which makes food cost more, water costs more, everything costs more and we have spent a trillion dollars on capturing the beautiful sun rays and the gentle breezes.

Go Green!!!!

 

[WelfareQueen]

The main problem with renewables is simple physics. How to you store energy from wind and solar for when you need it? The answer: With great difficulty.

Power can be theoretically be stored as kinetic energy. Example: Pump water up a hill....then release water down the hill to spin a turbine. Problem: You lose much of the energy pumping it up the hill. This is grossly inefficient.

You can store the power as thermal energy. A few solar plants are trying this. Basically a thick sludgy brine is heated up in pipes to several thousands degrees. Water is passed over the pipes to produce steam which spins a turbine. Problem: Thermal energy dissipates rapidly. Highly inefficient.

Hydrocarbons have far more energy density than any sources other than nuclear, and they are on demand. So called renewables will never be any more than an adjunct to traditional sources of power. You cannot change the Laws of Physics.

Btw...low energy density is also the primary limitation of battery technology....that and all batteries must carry their own reactant, which greatly decreases overall efficiency. If battery technology could even produce 1/2 the energy density of gasoline it would be a world beating technology. Problem: It doesn't exist. Pesky physics again.

 

[Politico]

I don't care what the limitations are for the rest of you. It has been working for me. That's all that matters.

BTW we are still waiting for you to show us pics of your electric car and solar setup Matt.

 

[elektra]

The biggest limitation of wind and solar is that they are too weak, literally. If we had that magic battery today, you could not charge them, a wind turbine can not spin fast enough, and the sun is just not that strong.

 

[WinterBorn]

Given that we are burning thru our fossil fuels at a rate that is exponentially greater than those fuels are being created, we will eventually be forced to change to another source for our energy needs.

If we wait until the fossil fuels are exhausted we will be screwed.

 

[Mr. H.]

The "reserve quality" of fossil fuels has done nothing but increase over the decades.

 

[editec]

Right now our greatest potential for new energy source that are affordable is still CONSERVATION.

Usually that's the cheapest source of found energy available.


Wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, they might make sense in some circumstances but they are still inadequate for replacing our current needs for hydrocarbons.

 

[WinterBorn]

The "reserve quality" of fossil fuels has done nothing but increase over the decades.

But unless fossil fuels are being created at a greater rate than we burn them, we will run out. It is just a matter of when.

 

[DGS49]

(a) Although it is true that fossil fuels are being consumed at a greater rate than ever, they are actually being FOUND at a greater rate than they are being consumed. For example, the U.S. oil reserves are greater now than they were last year, 5 years ago, 10 years ago. Our known natural gas reserves are, for all intents and purposes, infinite and still growing. Nobody alive today will ever have to concern herself about whether there will be enough carbon left to burn to light her desk lamp.

(2) There is nothing wrong with the renewables mentioned above, but they will never be able to provide base load, which renders them nothing more than expensive curiosities. You might as well hook up all the treadmills in America's healthclubs to generators. It would do as much good as all the windmills and solar panels we have now.

(iii) Wise use of resources is always good. Conservation is kool. So what?

(D) Nuclear power could easily be rendered "renewable" with known technology. Spent fuel can be re-processed and used again virtually forever (it is not reprocessed for POLITICAL reasons, not technical). More so than with (a) above, none of our grandchildren would ever have to concern themselves about whether there is sufficient uranium to keep the reactors cooking.

Regulatory zealotry and the public's neurotic fear of "radiation" are the main reasons why Nuke is being cast aside. It is incredibly stupid.

 

[RGR]

Given that we are burning thru our fossil fuels at a rate that is exponentially greater than those fuels are being created, we will eventually be forced to change to another source for our energy needs.

If we wait until the fossil fuels are exhausted we will be screwed.

Why should you care? You will be dead long before we run out of those fuels. Of COURSE there will be a change before we run out, some of us right now are putting some of the fuel in the tanks of our automobiles from solar panels on our roofs. Given time, others will do the same, and then the old farts will die and to our children, filling up the car from the 240V circuit will be just as normal as how some people stop at the local extortion store and cough up cash to fund jihadists. Or help out Canadians.

 

[flacaltenn]

Given that we are burning thru our fossil fuels at a rate that is exponentially greater than those fuels are being created, we will eventually be forced to change to another source for our energy needs.

If we wait until the fossil fuels are exhausted we will be screwed.

Why should you care? You will be dead long before we run out of those fuels. Of COURSE there will be a change before we run out, some of us right now are putting some of the fuel in the tanks of our automobiles from solar panels on our roofs. Given time, others will do the same, and then the old farts will die and to our children, filling up the car from the 240V circuit will be just as normal as how some people stop at the local extortion store and cough up cash to fund jihadists. Or help out Canadians.

Filling up your car from a rooftop solar panel is an iffy proposition. Current 220V chargers are still 6 to 10 hour charges. That's not a problem easily solved. You burn too many KWhrs/mile to fill up from your rooftop. FAST CHARGE requires KiloVolts of generation. And if everyone did that at rush hour -- the Grid would smoke.

What your grandchildren will LIKELY be doing, is driving hydrogen Fuel Cell cars, not batterywagons. THOSE can be filled in minutes. And the ranges don't require all that dead toxic weight.

 

[elektra]

Given that we are burning thru our fossil fuels at a rate that is exponentially greater than those fuels are being created, we will eventually be forced to change to another source for our energy needs.

If we wait until the fossil fuels are exhausted we will be screwed.

so why waste said fossil fuels producing "green energy", when its known, green energy is a waste of energy

 

[Old Rocks]

Geothermal holds the key to evening out the rest of the renewables. 24-7, and much more controllable than coal.

 

[elektra]

Geothermal holds the key to evening out the rest of the renewables. 24-7, and much more controllable than coal.

bullshit, prove it.

 

[Old Rocks]

Geothermal holds the key to evening out the rest of the renewables. 24-7, and much more controllable than coal.

bullshit, prove it.

The Future of Geothermal Energy

 

[flacaltenn]

Geothermal is the godfather of fracking. Thats a really hard sell when the Enviro-nuts realize what they have been pushing. Major Enviro associations oppose it.. It's NOT renewable, since the wells peter out from heat loss and corrosion. And the places where it is applicable are severely limited.

Go for it.. I like it.. I just want an honest discussion of dirty mining operations to remain in perspective..

 

[RGR]

Geothermal is the godfather of fracking.

Really? How so?

Thats a really hard sell when the Enviro-nuts realize what they have been pushing. Major Enviro associations oppose it.. It's NOT renewable, since the wells peter out from heat loss and corrosion. And the places where it is applicable are severely limited.

Oh please, you can always find someone to oppose something, look at those poor folks with windmill phobia, or high voltage line phobia. NIMBYS exist for all things that exist.