The glaring evidence that Obamacare is a catastrophic FAILURE continues to mount

[PMZ]

I'm sure, we'll not too, that your opinion matters to someone. It's not me. If I let people like you tell me how to think, I'd be no better than them.

What a drag.

Once you've learned to think independently and critically, you can't go back.

That is just it peanut ... I have never told you how to think ... Or suggested anyone is better than anyone else.
If you don't like the way you come across to others when you describe what you think ... That is neither my fault nor my problem.

I find it more entertaining than a drag ... But that's just me I guess.
If a person thinks at all ... It is independent and conscience in as no one else is in your brain ... The problem is not enough people think about what they believe and disregard introspection as an useful tool.

.

You'll find that some peoples definition of critical thinking is their way of thinking.

To many people are fixated on just one thing. And it seems recently, it's all about the goodies.

To bad. But people have a rights and you certainly want to see them exercising them. You only hope they don't give them up by taking them for granted.

Hope you are having a good Christmas.

Conservatives are fixated on the goodies. They discovered that there is still 15% of them possessed by the middle class. Their goal is to vacuum up all of the wealth. Their ignorance is that if they did that there would be nobody creating wealth through work.

The death of the golden goose.

 

[Listening]

Liberal and authoritarian are opposites.

Yep... I couldn't agree more, historically at least. Even today, depending on who is using the term and what they mean by it. All of the core value of my political ideology have a liberal basis.

That won't play out well at the national level.

Do you believe you can be a "split personality" when it comes to politics ?

 

[dblack]

Liberal and authoritarian are opposites.

Yep... I couldn't agree more, historically at least. Even today, depending on who is using the term and what they mean by it. All of the core value of my political ideology have a liberal basis.

That won't play out well at the national level.

Do you believe you can be a "split personality" when it comes to politics ?

What do you mean?

I was just commenting on the word 'liberal', not so much its modern popular usage referring to Democrats.

 

[PMZ]

Yep... I couldn't agree more, historically at least. Even today, depending on who is using the term and what they mean by it. All of the core value of my political ideology have a liberal basis.

That won't play out well at the national level.

Do you believe you can be a "split personality" when it comes to politics ?

What do you mean?

I was just commenting on the word 'liberal', not so much its modern popular usage referring to Democrats.

What do you see different between classic and modern liberalism?

 

[dblack]

That won't play out well at the national level.

Do you believe you can be a "split personality" when it comes to politics ?

What do you mean?

I was just commenting on the word 'liberal', not so much its modern popular usage referring to Democrats.

What do you see different between classic and modern liberalism?

'modern liberalism', as implemented by Democrats and Republicans is essentially just corporatism.

 

[Listening]

Yep... I couldn't agree more, historically at least. Even today, depending on who is using the term and what they mean by it. All of the core value of my political ideology have a liberal basis.

That won't play out well at the national level.

Do you believe you can be a "split personality" when it comes to politics ?

What do you mean?

I was just commenting on the word 'liberal', not so much its modern popular usage referring to Democrats.

I realize that...democrats are anything but libertarians.

What I was asking is if you see it possible to practice or emphasize one type of ideology at the federal level while practicing a different type of ideology at a more local level. And not....feel like you've compromised yourself.

 

[dblack]

That won't play out well at the national level.

Do you believe you can be a "split personality" when it comes to politics ?

What do you mean?

I was just commenting on the word 'liberal', not so much its modern popular usage referring to Democrats.

I realize that...democrats are anything but libertarians.

What I was asking is if you see it possible to practice or emphasize one type of ideology at the federal level while practicing a different type of ideology at a more local level. And not....feel like you've compromised yourself.

I suppose it's possible. I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you saying it's a good idea? A bad idea?

 

[Listening]

What do you mean?

I was just commenting on the word 'liberal', not so much its modern popular usage referring to Democrats.

I realize that...democrats are anything but libertarians.

What I was asking is if you see it possible to practice or emphasize one type of ideology at the federal level while practicing a different type of ideology at a more local level. And not....feel like you've compromised yourself.

I suppose it's possible. I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you saying it's a good idea? A bad idea?

Not saying one way or the other....just asking.

I see myself as very conservative at the federal level. I want the federal government paying attention to the few duties it has...and I want consistent performance (not a lot of changes).

At the local level, I am much more willing to experiment.

 

[dblack]

I realize that...democrats are anything but libertarians.

What I was asking is if you see it possible to practice or emphasize one type of ideology at the federal level while practicing a different type of ideology at a more local level. And not....feel like you've compromised yourself.

I suppose it's possible. I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you saying it's a good idea? A bad idea?

Not saying one way or the other....just asking.

I see myself as very conservative at the federal level. I want the federal government paying attention to the few duties it has...and I want consistent performance (not a lot of changes).

At the local level, I am much more willing to experiment.

I see. Yeah, that make a lot more sense to me than the other way around.

 

[PMZ]

Federal level influence is only for the extreme wealthy. Local government can be bought very easily. That’s why the lower you go the more corruption you find.

That's the essence of states rights. Less oversight of government that is affordable for the lower wealthy class.

 

[dblack]

Federal level influence is only for the extreme wealthy. Local government can be bought very easily. That’s why the lower you go the more corruption you find.

That's the essence of states rights. Less oversight of government that is affordable for the lower wealthy class.

Right.. government should only be for sale to the elite upper class.

 

[Listening]

I suppose it's possible. I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you saying it's a good idea? A bad idea?

Not saying one way or the other....just asking.

I see myself as very conservative at the federal level. I want the federal government paying attention to the few duties it has...and I want consistent performance (not a lot of changes).

At the local level, I am much more willing to experiment.

I see. Yeah, that make a lot more sense to me than the other way around.

We are discussing this (in a different form). NO DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT is worth anything if people are not paying attention at any level.

Our history, especially as of late, shows that allowing the foxes to watch the hen house has had disasterous consequences.

You can pull all kinds of quotes from the founding fathers on this (which does not make them gospel...but if you sit and think about them..they make a lot of sense).

As you get government farther away from people, they become less interested and it grows on itself.

 

[Listening]

Enjoyed this:

Disinformation behind Obamacare runs deep - Jonah Goldberg - Page 1

"Obamacare was sold on a trinity of lies."

That ornate phrase, more suitable for the Book of Revelations or perhaps the next installment of "Game of Thrones," comes from my National Review colleague Rich Lowry. But I like it. Most people know the first deception in the triumvirate of deceit: "If you like your health insurance you can keep it, period." The second leg in the tripod of deception was "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

But the third plank in the triad of disinformation hasn't gotten much attention: Obamacare will save you, me and the country a lot of money. This lie took several forms.

 

[Jackson]

First, Obama promised on numerous occasions that the average family of four will save $2,500 a year in premiums. Where did that number come from? Three Harvard economists wrote a memo in 2007 in which they claimed that then-Sen. Obama's health-care plan would reduce national health-care spending by $200 billion. Then, according to the New York Times, the authors "divided [$200 billion] by the country's population, multiplied for a family of four, and rounded down slightly to a number that was easy to grasp: $2,500."

In September, the Obama administration's Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services used far more rigorous methods to predict that Obamacare would increase national health-care spending by $621 billion. Using Obama's own math, that would mean -- according to Chris Conover, an economist at the American Enterprise Institute and Duke University -- each family of four in America will spend an additional $7,450 thanks to Obamacare.

Of course, that methodology is still bogus. But it's probably closer to the truth.

http://townhall.com/columnists/jona...formation-behind-obamacare-runs-deep-n1762150

 

[Soupnazi630]

It is sad that this has to happen.

It's also sad that the GOP has convinced people of "death panels", "losing freedom" and all the other hysterical nonsense that you sheep believe, that have actually made you think you hate a law that is a Republican idea.

So yeah, it's sad that a campaign needs to be waged to combat such blatant misinformation.

Rebublican idea?

Need to explain that one.

Death Panels were known to be made up a long time ago.

Losing freedom is not but is proven to be accurate.

 

[Meister]

It is sad that this has to happen.

It's also sad that the GOP has convinced people of "death panels", "losing freedom" and all the other hysterical nonsense that you sheep believe, that have actually made you think you hate a law that is a Republican idea.

So yeah, it's sad that a campaign needs to be waged to combat such blatant misinformation.

Just ask yourself how many have and how many are going to be losing their healthcare insurance that they liked? Then get back to me with your canned talking points.

 

[PMZ]

The real question for Obamacare is how many medical bankruptcies will be prevented and how much will be saved by more cost and health effective care for those who previously had no alternative to emergency rooms.

Many of those costs will not show up as insurance savings, but in other areas.

Other than that, Obamacare has no way to effect health care delivery or insurance costs. If anyone disagrees, post what specific Obamacare provision has any potential to impact the total spent on insurance which, with oop costs, is the total cost of health care.

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah huh. Whatever you say.

 

[PMZ]

Yeah huh. Whatever you say.

I don't read any Obamacare provisions that have even the potential to impact health care insurance or delivery costs other than what I mentioned.

 

[Rozman]

What is going to happen to the people who had coverage they were fine with
now being dropped and being forced to buy another plan with higher premiums
with high deductibles.

They will have to pay thousands of dollars before they will get any benefit from their plan...

The response from the left seems to be... tough shit.They are only a small percentage of the population.Like 5 million or so.

But they are up in arms about the fact that 1 million people who didn't get an extension for their UE benefits...

My answer to that....

Well my friends that's only a small percentage of the population.
How do you like that Libs...