The glaring evidence that Obamacare is a catastrophic FAILURE continues to mount

[RKMBrown]

You sure about this RKM Brown ? I have seen my premiums go up and my quality of service go down also, as one example my deductible has never been this high before, and then I had once under United Health Care a change to a 60/40 on the pay ratio situation, where as now I am back to a 70/30 pay ratio situation under BCBS. My wife has a policy that is an 80/20 pay ratio, and she has a 2,000 dollar deductible. Not sure why we don't have a better pay ratio than what we do, as we do much more dangerous work than she does, but it depends on the company one is with, and what types of policies they are offered I guess.

Yes, I'm sure. We may not like the fact that our insurance pays the for the benefits of others but you can't blame the insurance or even the health care providers. The fault is the government mandates, government provided monopolies, and government programs that are saddling the insurance payer with extra benefits they don't want. That plus "inflation." Insurance companies just skim off the top the real winner here is the people who directly benefit from these government created issues. That would be the illegal immigrants, the drug companies, the suit happy lawyers, etc.. These government management missteps caused the rates to go up, then they come in to save the day with even more management missteps that will double and triple the costs yet again.

The object of ACA is to, as much as possible, get all of us to pay for our own health care. As a start towards enabling us to manage it's costs down some day.

Wealthy people, and people whose employer foots their medical bills, aren't the problem. Obamacare would choose to ignore them. Private insurance won't.

So there are some in those two categories who have incomplete coverage. Who are at risk of expensive circumstances causing them to not being able to pay for their own medical expenses.

Obamacare plugs those holes.

The other end of the spectrum are people not being paid enough for full time work to afford to be healthy. If they get sick they can just be fired and replaced with a good "part". Business backs them into a corner where survival takes a great deal of work and time and cunning. That fact of survival puts their cost of surviving, that their employer ignores, on us, one way or another.

ACA puts those costs on, rather than under, the table.

The Republican fuss about all this has little to do with all if this. It has to do with maintaining their business, getting elected, competitive, by dragging their competition down to their level through advertising. Propaganda. Mind control. Brain washing. Dirty politics. Whatever you want to call it.

So it's necessary to understand all of this to separate politics from governance, health care insurance from delivery, business making more money regardless of the cost to others from government, health care cost escalation leading to improved health outcomes from merely more profit for a particular business, etc.

Most people can't. So politics and business takes advantage of that confusion.

Wrong.

The object of ACA is to, as much as possible, grow government while locking everyone into a socialist system of health care where over time only the top half pays and the bottom half gets everything they want for free, this to ensure the 51% have to keep voting democrat, so that the democrats can enact, over time, a democrat run communist system of government where no one has to worry about paying any of their bills as long as they vote democrat. This will work right up to the point in time when the 49% say screw you guys, you won't row neither will we. Pass the booze i'm sitting on my couch.

 

[dblack]

The object of ACA is to, as much as possible, get all of us to pay for our own health care. As a start towards enabling us to manage it's costs down some day.

But that's not what it does. It does exactly the opposite in fact. It forces all of us to buy insurance so that we are relieved of the responsibility of paying for our own health care.

 

[PMZ]

cost increases greater than inflation have never even slowed.

so once again, where does that perceived "problem" by you authorize the federal government to intervene?

scotus.

 

[PMZ]

Every one of our global competition successfully regulates health care delivery costs.

Why are you constantly trying to lower the United States to the same subpar level of the rest of the world? We are the United States. We're better than the rest of the world. And no matter how hard you try drag us down, conservatives will be here protecting the Republic and the Constitution.

If your only argument is "but mommy, Johnny did it too" then you have no argument.

We need to be competitive.

 

[RKMBrown]

Every one of our global competition successfully regulates health care delivery costs.

Why are you constantly trying to lower the United States to the same subpar level of the rest of the world? We are the United States. We're better than the rest of the world. And no matter how hard you try drag us down, conservatives will be here protecting the Republic and the Constitution.

If your only argument is "but mommy, Johnny did it too" then you have no argument.

We need to be competitive.

Yeah cause being #1 needed to be fixed.

 

[dblack]

Just wait until they tell you that because Obamacare is paying for your healthcare, they will control what you eat and mandate exercise. De Fürher Bloomberg already started this ball rolling with his ban on soda in New York.

And when it happens (and we all know it will) PMZ will attempt to defend it with every absurd argument he can think of. But....but....but...Cambodia regulates the diet of their citizens....

This is my biggest concern with ACA. The primary excuse for mandating insurance is the 'free rider' dynamic. People don't like that laws like EMTALA, or even just general welfare spending, shift costs from 'irresponsible' people to taxpayers - so they are insisting on mandates to make sure it doesn't happen. When all our health care costs are pooled together, how will these same people view their neighbors' unhealthy habits? Will the be demanding even more laws dictating our personal decisions in the name of saving taxpayers money? You can bet they will.

 

[PMZ]

Why are you constantly trying to lower the United States to the same subpar level of the rest of the world? We are the United States. We're better than the rest of the world. And no matter how hard you try drag us down, conservatives will be here protecting the Republic and the Constitution.

If your only argument is "but mommy, Johnny did it too" then you have no argument.

the other shoe is about to drop

Virginia Democrat Kathleen Murphy

wants to see doctors and providers forced into accepting

medicaid and medicare

in an effort to make obamacare even better

MASON CONSERVATIVE: Virginia Democrat Calls For Forcing Doctors To Accept Medicare And Medicaid Patients

now all she needs is a law forbidding the doctors from quitting

and once and for all health care can be a god given right

Just wait until they tell you that because Obamacare is paying for your healthcare, they will control what you eat and mandate exercise. De Fürher Bloomberg already started this ball rolling with his ban on soda in New York.

And when it happens (and we all know it will) PMZ will attempt to defend it with every absurd argument he can think of. But....but....but...Cambodia regulates the diet of their citizens....

The only people Obamacare pays to maintain their health are the people that business doesn't. What that does is nothing more than put those costs, which are unavoidable due to survival instinct built into all of us, on, rather than under, the table.

 

[boedicca]

Don't worry! Sebelius is on the case! She has a new book.

 

[PMZ]

Yes, I'm sure. We may not like the fact that our insurance pays the for the benefits of others but you can't blame the insurance or even the health care providers. The fault is the government mandates, government provided monopolies, and government programs that are saddling the insurance payer with extra benefits they don't want. That plus "inflation." Insurance companies just skim off the top the real winner here is the people who directly benefit from these government created issues. That would be the illegal immigrants, the drug companies, the suit happy lawyers, etc.. These government management missteps caused the rates to go up, then they come in to save the day with even more management missteps that will double and triple the costs yet again.

The object of ACA is to, as much as possible, get all of us to pay for our own health care. As a start towards enabling us to manage it's costs down some day.

Wealthy people, and people whose employer foots their medical bills, aren't the problem. Obamacare would choose to ignore them. Private insurance won't.

So there are some in those two categories who have incomplete coverage. Who are at risk of expensive circumstances causing them to not being able to pay for their own medical expenses.

Obamacare plugs those holes.

The other end of the spectrum are people not being paid enough for full time work to afford to be healthy. If they get sick they can just be fired and replaced with a good "part". Business backs them into a corner where survival takes a great deal of work and time and cunning. That fact of survival puts their cost of surviving, that their employer ignores, on us, one way or another.

ACA puts those costs on, rather than under, the table.

The Republican fuss about all this has little to do with all if this. It has to do with maintaining their business, getting elected, competitive, by dragging their competition down to their level through advertising. Propaganda. Mind control. Brain washing. Dirty politics. Whatever you want to call it.

So it's necessary to understand all of this to separate politics from governance, health care insurance from delivery, business making more money regardless of the cost to others from government, health care cost escalation leading to improved health outcomes from merely more profit for a particular business, etc.

Most people can't. So politics and business takes advantage of that confusion.

Wrong.

The object of ACA is to, as much as possible, grow government while locking everyone into a socialist system of health care where over time only the top half pays and the bottom half gets everything they want for free, this to ensure the 51% have to keep voting democrat, so that the democrats can enact, over time, a democrat run communist system of government where no one has to worry about paying any of their bills as long as they vote democrat. This will work right up to the point in time when the 49% say screw you guys, you won't row neither will we. Pass the booze i'm sitting on my couch.

Wrong. This is only what you wish was true as it is your excuse for extremism. You wanting it to be true has no impact on reality.

 

[PMZ]

Just wait until they tell you that because Obamacare is paying for your healthcare, they will control what you eat and mandate exercise. De Fürher Bloomberg already started this ball rolling with his ban on soda in New York.

And when it happens (and we all know it will) PMZ will attempt to defend it with every absurd argument he can think of. But....but....but...Cambodia regulates the diet of their citizens....

This is my biggest concern with ACA. The primary excuse for mandating insurance is the 'free rider' dynamic. People don't like that laws like EMTALA, or even just general welfare spending, shift costs from 'irresponsible' people to taxpayers - so they are insisting on mandates to make sure it doesn't happen. When all our health care costs are pooled together, how will these same people view their neighbors' unhealthy habits? Will the be demanding even more laws dictating our personal decisions in the name of saving taxpayers money? You can bet they will.

There are many countries who accept your ideas, typically not because they agree, but because they have no economic choice. They are all over the world, but there's a concentration in Africa.

Been there. Seen that. It's really the most expensive solution. Not to mention sickening.

Have you seen or experienced it?

 

[dblack]

Just wait until they tell you that because Obamacare is paying for your healthcare, they will control what you eat and mandate exercise. De Fürher Bloomberg already started this ball rolling with his ban on soda in New York.

And when it happens (and we all know it will) PMZ will attempt to defend it with every absurd argument he can think of. But....but....but...Cambodia regulates the diet of their citizens....

This is my biggest concern with ACA. The primary excuse for mandating insurance is the 'free rider' dynamic. People don't like that laws like EMTALA, or even just general welfare spending, shift costs from 'irresponsible' people to taxpayers - so they are insisting on mandates to make sure it doesn't happen. When all our health care costs are pooled together, how will these same people view their neighbors' unhealthy habits? Will the be demanding even more laws dictating our personal decisions in the name of saving taxpayers money? You can bet they will.

There are many countries who accept your ideas, typically not because they agree, but because they have no economic choice. They are all over the world, but there's a concentration in Africa.

Been there. Seen that. It's really the most expensive solution. Not to mention sickening.

Have you seen or experienced it?

Please... not the Somalia screed.

 

[RKMBrown]

The object of ACA is to, as much as possible, get all of us to pay for our own health care. As a start towards enabling us to manage it's costs down some day.

Wealthy people, and people whose employer foots their medical bills, aren't the problem. Obamacare would choose to ignore them. Private insurance won't.

So there are some in those two categories who have incomplete coverage. Who are at risk of expensive circumstances causing them to not being able to pay for their own medical expenses.

Obamacare plugs those holes.

The other end of the spectrum are people not being paid enough for full time work to afford to be healthy. If they get sick they can just be fired and replaced with a good "part". Business backs them into a corner where survival takes a great deal of work and time and cunning. That fact of survival puts their cost of surviving, that their employer ignores, on us, one way or another.

ACA puts those costs on, rather than under, the table.

The Republican fuss about all this has little to do with all if this. It has to do with maintaining their business, getting elected, competitive, by dragging their competition down to their level through advertising. Propaganda. Mind control. Brain washing. Dirty politics. Whatever you want to call it.

So it's necessary to understand all of this to separate politics from governance, health care insurance from delivery, business making more money regardless of the cost to others from government, health care cost escalation leading to improved health outcomes from merely more profit for a particular business, etc.

Most people can't. So politics and business takes advantage of that confusion.

Wrong.

The object of ACA is to, as much as possible, grow government while locking everyone into a socialist system of health care where over time only the top half pays and the bottom half gets everything they want for free, this to ensure the 51% have to keep voting democrat, so that the democrats can enact, over time, a democrat run communist system of government where no one has to worry about paying any of their bills as long as they vote democrat. This will work right up to the point in time when the 49% say screw you guys, you won't row neither will we. Pass the booze i'm sitting on my couch.

Wrong. This is only what you wish was true as it is your excuse for extremism. You wanting it to be true has no impact on reality.

Now liberty is "extremism?"

 

[PMZ]

This is my biggest concern with ACA. The primary excuse for mandating insurance is the 'free rider' dynamic. People don't like that laws like EMTALA, or even just general welfare spending, shift costs from 'irresponsible' people to taxpayers - so they are insisting on mandates to make sure it doesn't happen. When all our health care costs are pooled together, how will these same people view their neighbors' unhealthy habits? Will the be demanding even more laws dictating our personal decisions in the name of saving taxpayers money? You can bet they will.

There are many countries who accept your ideas, typically not because they agree, but because they have no economic choice. They are all over the world, but there's a concentration in Africa.

Been there. Seen that. It's really the most expensive solution. Not to mention sickening.

Have you seen or experienced it?

Please... not the Somalia screed.

You can't stand the truth.

 

[dblack]

There are many countries who accept your ideas, typically not because they agree, but because they have no economic choice. They are all over the world, but there's a concentration in Africa.

Been there. Seen that. It's really the most expensive solution. Not to mention sickening.

Have you seen or experienced it?

Please... not the Somalia screed.

You can't stand the truth.

Well, it is honestly disappointing. I was enjoying the thread. But if you don't want to discuss the topic, I can't force you to.

 

[PMZ]

Please... not the Somalia screed.

You can't stand the truth.

Well, it is honestly disappointing. I was enjoying the thread. But if you don't want to discuss the topic, I can't force you to.

I was. Why do you think that it is not wise to use actual global experience to judge alternatives?

 

[PMZ]

Wrong.

The object of ACA is to, as much as possible, grow government while locking everyone into a socialist system of health care where over time only the top half pays and the bottom half gets everything they want for free, this to ensure the 51% have to keep voting democrat, so that the democrats can enact, over time, a democrat run communist system of government where no one has to worry about paying any of their bills as long as they vote democrat. This will work right up to the point in time when the 49% say screw you guys, you won't row neither will we. Pass the booze i'm sitting on my couch.

Wrong. This is only what you wish was true as it is your excuse for extremism. You wanting it to be true has no impact on reality.

Now liberty is "extremism?"

What's extremism is your presumption that more liberty is the result of fewer laws when, in fact, the opposite is true.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Conservatives seem to be surprised that the cost of health care insurance follows the cost of health care delivery.

No wonder they have trouble with the real world.

Stupid is as stupid does. What do you expect from people who are fed lies and conspuracy theories on a daily basis?

 

[dblack]

You can't stand the truth.

Well, it is honestly disappointing. I was enjoying the thread. But if you don't want to discuss the topic, I can't force you to.

I was. Why do you think that it is not wise to use actual global experience to judge alternatives?

Your comment was a non-sequitor and has nothing to do with the post you were responding to. It was the rhetorical equivalent of "I got nuthin".

 

[PMZ]

Well, it is honestly disappointing. I was enjoying the thread. But if you don't want to discuss the topic, I can't force you to.

I was. Why do you think that it is not wise to use actual global experience to judge alternatives?

Your comment was a non-sequitor and has nothing to do with the post you were responding to. It was the rhetorical equivalent of "I got nuthin".

Let's try once more.

Why do you think that it is not wise to use actual global experience to judge alternatives?

 

[dblack]

I was. Why do you think that it is not wise to use actual global experience to judge alternatives?

Your comment was a non-sequitor and has nothing to do with the post you were responding to. It was the rhetorical equivalent of "I got nuthin".

Let's try once more.

Why do you think that it is not wise to use actual global experience to judge alternatives?

I don't think that.

Now, in regard to the post you were responding to - we were discussing a potential unintended consequences of ACA. Specifically I was expressing concern that pooling health care costs via mandated insurance coverage will create an incentive for more intrusive regulations dictating personal behavior. You have cited the cost shifting associated with the uninsured as justification for the additional regulations of ACA. Assuming that law is able to achieve something closer to universal insurance coverage, will you then see justification in laws prohibiting behavior that might cost taxpayers money in terms of health care costs?