The Gun Control Debate will continue until we find solutions that make sense for people on both sides of the issue.

[2aguy]

The majority of gun owners do get it. That’s wh6 they want universal background checks. The rest are skirting the regs and selling guns to the underaged, mentally incompetent and criminally intent, all in the name of profit.

No....you guys lie to them and don't tell them the truth, so they answer stupid poll questions in ignorance of your real goals and agenda...

 

[White 6]

It isn't a straw man..........you want to put a test in before people can exercise a Right.....it is no different from the Literacy tests democrats used to keep blacks from voting..


And the democrats back then thought they too were doing their community good by keeping black Americans from voting......

There were 3 black people in the class going through the exact same training, lessons, films, test (written in good old fashion English) multiple choice and true false, and maybe a fill in the blank on really simple crap where the instructor had stamped his feet so even the clueless, knew it would probably be on the test. The only person that had to retest was a guy that missed the first half, but figured he could pass without it. The three black guys passed on first time go, and likewise on the range qualification live fire, though not particularly great marksmen, but heck if you got the close in targets where it started in the scoring rings, you didn't have to be any expert to get enough in at distance to at least make minimum passing. Instructor/grader was right there and the firing was one lane at a time, so proper coaching goes a long way. You have shot. It ain't rocket science to hit your aiming point with a two-handed grip, unless you want to see how fast you can put rounds down range and hold the gun sideways like some idiots on TV do. Heck, some of these concealed carriers were qualifying with their .22 target pistols, you and I would never use as a carry weapon on our dumbest damn day, knowing some big guy might beat the sh#t out of us before succumbing to his wounds.
Have you never qualified on a real range with actual graders, before anywhere?

 

[Dagosa]

Oh so we need to stop vehicles now and search for Illegals now ?

I didn’t know every state in the union bordered Mexico illiterate. Foolish, no state routiuley stops INTERSTATE travel looking for firearms bought in one state and taken to another. YOU KNOW THAT because gun a holics depend on selling your guns privately.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Not while the gun owners are busy selling them guns in private sales.

Private sales are the smallest portion of gun sales. If you buy a gun with the intent of selling it, you are legally a dealer and need a license.
From an article about h9w the ATF operates"
Under the Gun Control Act, the ATF had wide latitude to pursue illegal dealing charges against unlicensed sellers. FOPA protected private dealers by narrowing the definition of just who qualified as being “engaged in the business” of selling guns.

A clause in the law made it clear that licensing requirements would not apply to “a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.”

Instead, only people who buy and sell guns “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms” would have to get licensed with the ATF.:
"
Under the Gun Control Act, the ATF had wide latitude to pursue illegal dealing charges against unlicensed sellers. FOPA protected private dealers by narrowing the definition of just who qualified as being “engaged in the business” of selling guns.

A clause in the law made it clear that licensing requirements would not apply to “a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.”

Instead, only people who buy and sell guns “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms” would have to get licensed with the ATF."
The ATF considers you a dealer if you sell multiple guns in a year, or if you buy them to sell them.

 

[AZrailwhale]

They have to stop them from the top and work down. That’s why Trump is being prosecuted.

Trump is being prosecuted to harass him and make it difficult for him to run for President in 2024. That's why the cases were filed so late and are proceeding so slowly.

 

[Dagosa]

Private sales are the smallest portion of gun sales. If you buy a gun with the intent of selling it, you are legally a dealer and need a license.
From an article about h9w the ATF operates"
Under the Gun Control Act, the ATF had wide latitude to pursue illegal dealing charges against unlicensed sellers. FOPA protected private dealers by narrowing the definition of just who qualified as being “engaged in the business” of selling guns.

A clause in the law made it clear that licensing requirements would not apply to “a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.”

Instead, only people who buy and sell guns “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms” would have to get licensed with the ATF.:
"
Under the Gun Control Act, the ATF had wide latitude to pursue illegal dealing charges against unlicensed sellers. FOPA protected private dealers by narrowing the definition of just who qualified as being “engaged in the business” of selling guns.

A clause in the law made it clear that licensing requirements would not apply to “a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.”

Instead, only people who buy and sell guns “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms” would have to get licensed with the ATF."
The ATF considers you a dealer if you sell multiple guns in a year, or if you buy them to sell them.

Really illiterare. The ONLY legal way a firearm can go from a manufacturer to the public is through a licensed FFL dealer dufus.

 

[AZrailwhale]

In half the states they are. When was the last time any state routinely stopped and checked for possession of a firearm at a state line ? When ?

Never because that would be an illegal search. To stop and search a car the police need probably cause AND a warrant signed by a judge. They can't even search a car during a traffic stop except under three conditions: 1) you give consent. 2) If they have probable cause (if they find nothing they can be sued). and 3) if they have taken you into custody, they can hold you in their car and wait for a warrant, but again they have to have probable cause for a warrant that will satisfy a judge. Other than that, they can do a through search if they are impounding the car for some reason, but impounding a car without really good probable cause will get them sued.

 

[AZrailwhale]

What kind of danger to others is a person without a firearm compared to one with ?

Depends on the person. A ninety pound weakling like you who never served in the military, not much, me who not only served, but was trained how to build and disarm IEDs, a lot. Someone who was Special Warfare of some sort, a whole lot. Any person who had martial arts or archery as a hobby, a whole lot. As my DI said in Basic Training, "there are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous people and we are making you dangerous people".

 

[Dagosa]

Depends on the person. A ninety pound weakling like you who never served in the military, not much, me who not only served, but was trained how to build and disarm IEDs, a lot. Someone who was Special Warfare of some sort, a whole lot. Any person who had martial arts or archery as a hobby, a whole lot. As my DI said in Basic Training, "there are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous people and we are making you dangerous people".

Hardly chicken shit.

 

[Dagosa]

Trump is being prosecuted to harass him and make it difficult for him to run for President in 2024. That's why the cases were filed so late and are proceeding so slowly.

Probably because the rest of the gop is chicken shit and won’t do it themselves. He’s the most hated person in either party

 

[Dagosa]

Depends on the person. A ninety pound weakling like you who never served in the military, not much, me who not only served, but was trained how to build and disarm IEDs, a lot. Someone who was Special Warfare of some sort, a whole lot. Any person who had martial arts or archery as a hobby, a whole lot. As my DI said in Basic Training, "there are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous people and we are making you dangerous people".

Really. You believed that shit ? Before or after they handed you an M16 at the range. Funny, as a medic we worked on a lot more soldiers with gun shot wounds then bar fight victims. You post is FOS.

 

[Failzero]

We ? Did we give HJs in the Base parking lot too

 

[Failzero]

 

[Blues Man]

All gun owners are indeed not responsible for the acts of the "fractional percentage" as you call it, but all conservatives recognize their role in responsibility to common good in a co-dependent relatively free society. It is up to the moderately conservative majority, that often silent majority, to set the example of responsibility to that free society, if they wish to retain the freedoms we enjoy. People on the polar extremes, seem to miss that fact or ignore it, pushing personal agendas in conflict and detrimental to the absolute freedoms without obligation they proclaim to have, by a document that did not enumerate the responsibilities of those in a free society, required to make the system work, though many writers of our constitution made it clear to our fathers, grandfathers and forefathers. It is an understanding lost along the way to many of the "me, mine" generation(s) of the partisan echo chambers, typical of modern day and this message board.

As far as gun owners go they are being examples of responsibility.

The facts bear that out.

The vast majority of gun owners will never commit a crime
Concealed carry permit holders are arguable the single most law abiding group of people in the country
Accidental gun deaths are a vanishingly small occurrence as compared to the tens of millions of incidences of legal gun uses annually.

Gun owners happen to be the in vogue whipping boy for all the violence in our sick society and bowing down to those who are hell bent stripping rights from people whao have never and will never commit any crime let alone murder or mass murder is not something we should be doing.

 

[Blues Man]

I think you will find the vast majority of responsible gun owners will agree gun owners should have training, secure their firearms, practice all the usual safety rules and standards, ans any number of other things you'd likely agree fall under the asupices of 'responsible gun ownership'.

That they agree on this in no way means they should agree the state should mandate these things as a requirement for said gun ownership.

The enshrinement of constitutional rights -- necessarily and intentionally -- takes certain policy choices off the table.

And the facts bear out that this is exactly what the vast majority of gun owners do.

 

[Blues Man]

We

think there SHOULD be SOME Prohibited persons

There are already. The problem is our gun laws are not enforced.

 

[Blues Man]

7 out of every 10 Mass Shooters in last 15 years purchased Guns Legally ( But had known Mental/ Emotional Issues and were on SSRIs )

LINK

 

[sparky]

My 2 cents.

mandatory firearms education in HS is mine
~S~

 

[2aguy]

There were 3 black people in the class going through the exact same training, lessons, films, test (written in good old fashion English) multiple choice and true false, and maybe a fill in the blank on really simple crap where the instructor had stamped his feet so even the clueless, knew it would probably be on the test. The only person that had to retest was a guy that missed the first half, but figured he could pass without it. The three black guys passed on first time go, and likewise on the range qualification live fire, though not particularly great marksmen, but heck if you got the close in targets where it started in the scoring rings, you didn't have to be any expert to get enough in at distance to at least make minimum passing. Instructor/grader was right there and the firing was one lane at a time, so proper coaching goes a long way. You have shot. It ain't rocket science to hit your aiming point with a two-handed grip, unless you want to see how fast you can put rounds down range and hold the gun sideways like some idiots on TV do. Heck, some of these concealed carriers were qualifying with their .22 target pistols, you and I would never use as a carry weapon on our dumbest damn day, knowing some big guy might beat the sh#t out of us before succumbing to his wounds.
Have you never qualified on a real range with actual graders, before anywhere?

You moss the point.....intentionally.

The democrats ised literacy tests to keep blacks from voting.... if you mandate training to own or carry a gun the democrata will make the trainimg so time consuming, expensive and difficult only the rich and politically connected will be able to go theough it....

Thi is also one of the ways European countries limit access to the few hunting shotguns they allow poeple to own...

Leftosts will exploit any training mandate the same way they used literacy tests to keep blacks from voting...but their target will be
everyone, not just blacks

 

[2aguy]

View attachment 777863

I was 17 when I joined....