The Gun Control Debate will continue until we find solutions that make sense for people on both sides of the issue.

[bigrebnc1775]

Well, honey, I'll have and keep mine, knowing nobody coming while you lay awake worrying about yours, leaving you to your ingrained paranoia. Maybe the difference is all mine are legal, legal to own and my background being squeaky clean it is legal and normal to have what I have. For all I know, you could be a convicted felon or trying to keep your hoard of machine guns, pump stocks, and sear augmentation devices, wanting everybody else to help be paranoid for you, while the rest of us are just sportsman target shooters, hunter, you know normal people. I just can't work up any panic for you, but you go ahead.

Sure you'll keep yours sweetie . Dumbass if you vote for one democrat that one vote closer to congiscation

 

[White 6]

Sure you'll keep yours sweetie . Dumbass if you vote for one democrat that one vote closer to congiscation

Bullshit.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Bullshit.

No bullshit about it.look at the democrat controlled states

 

[White 6]

No bullshit about it.look at the democrat controlled states

The biggest threat to guns are the gun nuts, 2nd amendment crusader themselves. You'd like everybody carrying,qualified or not. Screw a "regulated militia", you guys want them for everybody, everywhere, all the time. You want one in the Home Ec teacher's purse, the music teacher's flute case, the Gym teacher's jock strap. You want them with no regulation at all. The only reason you don't want open and concealed carry on commercial air liners is because your so selfish and self absorbed, even you want live and know you can't trust the other passengers. You guys want open carry without permit of Semi-auto AR15s and AK47s on the streets, just for the privilege of having them without a cop or a citizen giving it a second glance. Enough is enough! Fuck that shit!
There is a place for weapons. They are good tools and great sport in the right hands and in the right place, that place being in your home, on the range or maybe hunting, depending on your hunting regs in your state. But, it should be with regulation, even if you love the well regulated militia phrase, and regulation is permitted under the supreme court and has been for at least close to century. It's the reason most people cannot buy and carry a machine gun, thought there are gun nuts out there that say they should be able. Guns here are not highly regulated, not even who carries one on the street, and even long guns. But with the mounting gun violence, by gun toting nut balls, it is a known problem that will be addressed in backlash against the known violence, rather then being primarily worried about the common misinterpretations of the amendment, nor worried about being attacked by foreign country, nor our own government of some gun nuts idea the unrestricted guns are necessary in case those idiot want to take over the government, though I am sure you are not one of those.

I favor "Shall Issue" state legislation in all states. I favor permit concealed/open carry of hand guns, with training requirements, range qualification and background check including local and national agency. I am against open carry of rifles and shotgun (no matter the length) on city streets, except in purchase or taking from parking lot to repair, for those to inept to work on their own. I have no problem with large capacity AR magazines as they are much better for range practice. I have no problem with 15 rnd magazines, such as come standard with my PPQ and several other semi-automatic pistols. I favor common sense. I don't favor weapons ownership by children, certainly no as Loren Boebart does, buying a rifle, a shotgun and a pony for her two-year-old granddaughter. I favor all weapons in the house being under the control of parents, not minor children and think the parents should be to prosecution or held financially liable for any mis-use by their kids. I also favor stop and frisk to get the guns out of the hands of minors on the street and criminal thugs.

It is the "all the guns all the time for all the people anywhere and everywhere" crowd and the criminals that carry that are responsible for the backlash, more toward common sense regulation. It is these assholes that will mess it up for everybody, as the

 

[2aguy]

The biggest threat to guns are the gun nuts, 2nd amendment crusader themselves. You'd like everybody carrying,qualified or not. Screw a "regulated militia", you guys want them for everybody, everywhere, all the time. You want one in the Home Ec teacher's purse, the music teacher's flute case, the Gym teacher's jock strap. You want them with no regulation at all. The only reason you don't want open and concealed carry on commercial air liners is because your so selfish and self absorbed, even you want live and know you can't trust the other passengers. You guys want open carry without permit of Semi-auto AR15s and AK47s on the streets, just for the privilege of having them without a cop or a citizen giving it a second glance. Enough is enough! Fuck that shit!
There is a place for weapons. They are good tools and great sport in the right hands and in the right place, that place being in your home, on the range or maybe hunting, depending on your hunting regs in your state. But, it should be with regulation, even if you love the well regulated militia phrase, and regulation is permitted under the supreme court and has been for at least close to century. It's the reason most people cannot buy and carry a machine gun, thought there are gun nuts out there that say they should be able. Guns here are not highly regulated, not even who carries one on the street, and even long guns. But with the mounting gun violence, by gun toting nut balls, it is a known problem that will be addressed in backlash against the known violence, rather then being primarily worried about the common misinterpretations of the amendment, nor worried about being attacked by foreign country, nor our own government of some gun nuts idea the unrestricted guns are necessary in case those idiot want to take over the government, though I am sure you are not one of those.

I favor "Shall Issue" state legislation in all states. I favor permit concealed/open carry of hand guns, with training requirements, range qualification and background check including local and national agency. I am against open carry of rifles and shotgun (no matter the length) on city streets, except in purchase or taking from parking lot to repair, for those to inept to work on their own. I have no problem with large capacity AR magazines as they are much better for range practice. I have no problem with 15 rnd magazines, such as come standard with my PPQ and several other semi-automatic pistols. I favor common sense. I don't favor weapons ownership by children, certainly no as Loren Boebart does, buying a rifle, a shotgun and a pony for her two-year-old granddaughter. I favor all weapons in the house being under the control of parents, not minor children and think the parents should be to prosecution or held financially liable for any mis-use by their kids. I also favor stop and frisk to get the guns out of the hands of minors on the street and criminal thugs.

It is the "all the guns all the time for all the people anywhere and everywhere" crowd and the criminals that carry that are responsible for the backlash, more toward common sense regulation. It is these assholes that will mess it up for everybody, as the

No.....gun violence is not perpetrated by normal people.....it is caused by cruminals who have long criminal records who are releaesed over and over again by the democrats......they cant buy, own or carry guns legally and they are the problem... not Boebert and her family.

The democrats are releasing these criminals with the intent that they keep shooting people.....so the democrats and their useful idiots like you will support more useless, but legally threatening gun control directed at and for normal people

 

[Dagosa]

You guys want open carry without permit of Semi-auto AR15s and AK47s on the streets, just for the privilege of having them without a cop or a citizen giving it a second glance. Enough is enough! Fuck that shit!

Exactly.
Oh, it’s worse for many. They want an unqualified, unregulated citizen to possess the SAME arms as military persons. Not very bright. 11 year olds with grenade launchers attached to their full auto M16. They’re all over the place. They have no real agenda other then being afraid. Being afraid of everything makes people dangerous.

 

[LibertyKid]

Exactly.
Oh, it’s worse for many. They want an unqualified, unregulated citizen to possess the SAME arms as military persons. Not very bright. 11 year olds with grenade launchers attached to their full auto M16. They’re all over the place. They have no real agenda other then being afraid. Being afraid of everything makes people dangerous.

Another candidate for "Stupid post of the day". Damn, have you ever heard of hyperbole, conjecture, strawman, and other fallacies that completely make you sound ignorant. Maybe read up on it a bit. Until then, don't even bother responding. Your posts are a waste of database storage and anyone's time.

Thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

A logical fallacy is a flaw in reasoning. Logical fallacies are like tricks or illusions of thought, and they're often very sneakily used by politicians and the media to fool people. Don't be fooled! This website has been designed to help you identify and call out dodgy logic wherever it may...

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

 

[task0778]

It is the "all the guns all the time for all the people anywhere and everywhere" crowd and the criminals that carry that are responsible for the backlash, more toward common sense regulation. It is these assholes that will mess it up for everybody

Bullshit. There are people like this but they ain't driving the anti-gun control train. IMHO, the bigger problem is the progressive democrats who want to ban AW guns that will do nothing to stop mass shootings or reduce gun violence. Instead of getting tougher on crimes with guns involved, they are more interested in social justice. Let me know when you guys come up with a common sense regulation that will actually be effective. You guys don't seem to get the message that it ain't the weapon that kills, it's the person who pulls the trigger. You ought to be focused on the behavior rather than the weapon.

 

[White 6]

No.....gun violence is not perpetrated by normal people.....it is caused by cruminals who have long criminal records who are releaesed over and over again by the democrats......they cant buy, own or carry guns legally and they are the problem... not Boebert and her family.

The democrats are releasing these criminals with the intent that they keep shooting people.....so the democrats and their useful idiots like you will support more useless, but legally threatening gun control directed at and for normal people

And your solution that will attack what you identify as the problem?

 

[2aguy]

And your solution that will attack what you identify as the problem?

Focus on actual criminals who commit gun crime. That is where over 95% of the gun murder and crime is coming from.

To deal with this problem, we have to vote out the democrats who are defunding, and attacking the police, releasing violent criminals on no cash bail, and short prison sentences no matter how many gun felonies they have, and we need to put in politicians who will increase jail and prison time for actual criminals who use guns for crime.


My plan...

===================

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a gun in a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

==========

For mass public shootings, we need to use PSAs to inform parents, schools, the police, social workers and shrinks, on what to do if they suspect a kid of possibly being dangerously mentally ill.......that is the most important step....help these kids before they even cross the line...

At the same time, you harden the schools...

Single point entry ways for during the day, blue police pull stations to alert the police directly about violence in a school, which bypasses the 911 call center saving minutes on the response time.....

And we need to end Gun Free Zones....we need to allow some teachers who are willing, better if it was administrators or secretaries or other non-teaching staff.....because they move around the building more freely than teachers do during the day......to be able to lawfully carry a gun during the day.........and we need to allow parents to carry their legal concealed guns with them when they visit the school.....to drop kids off, to pick kids up, to drop off forgotten lunches and homework....

By getting rid of the gun free zone, you make the school less likely to be a target....

How do we know....the actual shooters tell us this in their writings and their statements......the last one, the left wing, democrat party transgender killer decided not to attack two other buildings becuase they had too much security....


Also....put pressure on the media to stop covering the shootings 24/7 and to cover them simply, without glamorizing or popularizing the attackers....don't mention their names, mention only the victims......and talk about the shooter in derogatory ways on air.......

There......

 

[LibertyKid]

And your solution that will attack what you identify as the problem?

Really, you can't read what the solution is.

Most gun violence is perpetrated by criminals who illegally obtain their firearms. These same criminals are arrested and then quickly released back on the streets to perpetrate more crime. As a society we need to be tougher on criminals who commit crimes that involve guns. Murder with gun = life/death (I'll leave that up to the state to decide). If as a society we were tougher on criminals, it absolutely would help. Instead we have big cities like Chicago and San Francisco that are turning into shit holes because we have politicians and DAs that are turning their nose to crime.

The ATF, instead of trying to create laws, goes after the gun black market and shut down those operations getting more guns off the streets.
Maybe even entice some with lucrative buybacks.

The problem in this country is the sub-culture of crime, thuggery, and the lack of decent human respect.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The problem in this country is the sub-culture of crime, thuggery, and the lack of decent human respect.

Goes along way to explain the disparity in murder rates...

5-14yrd old black males commit murder at almost the same rate as 15-64yr old white males..

A Harsh New Light on Race and Murder

An amateur number-cruncher’s remarkable findings. https://rumble.com/embed/v2c1t8m/ Thumbnail credit: © Maria Leon/EFE via ZUMA Press This video is available on Rumble, BitChute, and Odysee. My organization, American Renaissance, has been studying race and crime ever since 1990. We published our...

www.unz.com

 

[2aguy]

And your solution that will attack what you identify as the problem?

Also...the vast majority of all gun crime is committed by a tiny number of individual criminals......all of whom generally have long histories of crime and violence....target them, and you reduce gun crime ...... make new fines, fees, taxes and red tape on normal gun owners and you do nothing to stem gun violence....

The lack of a clear causal link between lawful gun ownership and violent crime rates is unsurprising, given that lawful gun owners have never been the primary facilitators of gun crime. Of course, in any given year, a small number of lawful gun owners will commit crimes with their firearms, but the overwhelming majority of America’s tens of millions of gun owners will never constitute a danger to themselves or others.

On the contrary, the best available evidence suggests that a small number of serial offenders commit the majority of violent crimes, and that many of these serial offenders are already legally prohibited from possessing the firearms they use to perpetrate their crimes.13


Consider, for example, a recent report analyzing gun violence in Washington, DC, which concluded that 60 percent to 70 percent of all gun violence in the nation’s capital in any given year is tightly concentrated in a group of 500 “very high risk” individuals, almost all of whom have significant prior or ongoing interactions with the District’s criminal justice system.14

Almost half of all homicide suspects in DC have been previously incarcerated, while more than one in four were on active probation or parole supervision.15
Id. at 4.

According to the report, “most victims and suspects with prior criminal offenses had been arrested about 11 times for about 13 different offenses by the time of the homicide” in which they were involved—not including juvenile arrests.16
Id. 4–5.

http://[URL='https://www.heritage.o...mon-questions-and-debunking-their-most-common

[/URL]
=========
======
D.C. study...
A study finds that suspects in violent crime in the District share a lot of characteristics.

The National Institute for Criminal Justice Reform looked at the numbers for homicides and nonfatal shooting in D.C. in 2019 and 2020, and found that “most gun violence is tightly concentrated on a small number of very high-risk young Black male adults that share a common set of risk factors.”

Those factors include involvements in street crews, a previous criminal justice history and connection to a recent shooting. Often, they’ve been the victims of crime themselves. While the motive for the shooting “may not be a traditional gang war,” the report says, “often shootings are precipitated by a petty conflict over a young woman, a simple argument, or the now-ubiquitous social media slight.”
---------
More than 90% of victims and suspects in 2019 and 2020 were male and about 96% were Black.

The study also found that another 86% of victims and suspects have been involved with the criminal justice system and the average age of victims is 31, while the average age of suspects is 27 years old.

They found that, in terms of prior arrests, “victims and suspects were remarkably similar.”

http://[URL='https://wtop.com/dc/20...dc-gun-crimes-involve-small-number-of-people/

[/URL]


Bonus content.......the actual study...

About 96 percent of victims and suspects in both homicides and nonfatal shootings were Black, despite Black residents comprising only 46 percent of the overall population in the District (Table 1).
-----
Approximately 86 percent of homicide victims and suspects were known to the criminal justice system prior to the incident. Among all victims and suspects, about 46 percent had been previously incarcerated (Figure 2).
At least 23.3 percent of all homicide victims and suspects were under active supervision (i.e., CSOSA, PSA, or DYRS)1. At least 64 percent of all victims and suspects had been under any prior or active supervision and at least 76% of homicide suspects had active or prior supervision.
------
Overall, most victims and suspects with prior criminal offenses had been arrested about 11 times for about 13 different offenses by the time of the homicide. This count only refers to adult arrests and juvenile arrests were not included.
-------

In Washington, DC, most gun violence is tightly concentrated on a small number of very high risk young Black male adults that share a common set of risk factors, including: involvement in street crews/groups; significant criminal justice history including prior or active community supervision; often prior victimization; and a connection to a recent shooting (within the past 12 months).
While the majority of people involved in shootings, as victim or suspect, are members or associates of street groups/gangs, the motive for the shooting may not be a traditional gang war. Often shootings are precipitated by a petty conflict over a young woman, a simple argument, or the now ubiquitous social media slight.
-----
This small number of very high risk individuals are identifiable, their violence is predictable, and therefore it is preventable. Based on the assessment of data and the series of interviews conducted, NICJR estimates that within a year, there are at least 500 identifiable people who rise to this level of very high risk, and likely no more than 200 at any one given time. These individuals comprise approximately 60-70% of all gun violence in the District. Nealy 250 specific individuals were identified through the GVPA process but more importantly, the risk factors that make someone at very high risk has been identified in order to develop an on-going process to focus intervention efforts on those at very high risk.

https://cjcc.dc.gov/sites/default/f... Violence Problem Analysis Summary Report.pdf
========


The Criminology of Firearms

The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.


While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."
-------

 

[2aguy]

And your solution that will attack what you identify as the problem?

From Chicago....

Chicago Officials (Finally) Recognize Criminals Cause Crime

Chicago officials have also begun to admit that the recent spike in homicides is a crime problem – not a gun problem. Just this week, Chicago Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson acknowledged that “as long as we fail to hold violent repeat offenders responsible for their actions, we’re going to hear the same stories of murders and shootings in certain parts of our city.”

Johnson blamed Chicago’s broken justice system.
“It’s frustrating for [Chicago police] to arrest a guy on Friday for an illegal gun and then the next Thursday they see him right back out on the street with another illegal gun.” A police spokesman echoed Johnson’s frustration: “with nearly half of those we arrest for murder being repeated gun offenders, we need help to ensure these individuals stay off our streets after repeated arrests for guns.”

Cook County State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez made a similar acknowledgment last week: “Criminals know and understand our system” and “tell prosecutors that Illinois gun laws are ‘a joke.’”

She noted that the worst offenders “are spending fewer and fewer days behind bars for their violent and repeat felony gun offenses,” and that “an unexplained revolving door” is “spitting these convicted criminals out of prison after they have served only a fraction of their court-imposed se

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The biggest threat to guns are the gun nuts, 2nd amendment crusader themselves. You'd like everybody carrying,qualified or not. Screw a "regulated militia", you guys want them for everybody, everywhere, all the time. You want one in the Home Ec teacher's purse, the music teacher's flute case, the Gym teacher's jock strap. You want them with no regulation at all. The only reason you don't want open and concealed carry on commercial air liners is because your so selfish and self absorbed, even you want live and know you can't trust the other passengers. You guys want open carry without permit of Semi-auto AR15s and AK47s on the streets, just for the privilege of having them without a cop or a citizen giving it a second glance. Enough is enough! Fuck that shit!
There is a place for weapons. They are good tools and great sport in the right hands and in the right place, that place being in your home, on the range or maybe hunting, depending on your hunting regs in your state. But, it should be with regulation, even if you love the well regulated militia phrase, and regulation is permitted under the supreme court and has been for at least close to century. It's the reason most people cannot buy and carry a machine gun, thought there are gun nuts out there that say they should be able. Guns here are not highly regulated, not even who carries one on the street, and even long guns. But with the mounting gun violence, by gun toting nut balls, it is a known problem that will be addressed in backlash against the known violence, rather then being primarily worried about the common misinterpretations of the amendment, nor worried about being attacked by foreign country, nor our own government of some gun nuts idea the unrestricted guns are necessary in case those idiot want to take over the government, though I am sure you are not one of those.

I favor "Shall Issue" state legislation in all states. I favor permit concealed/open carry of hand guns, with training requirements, range qualification and background check including local and national agency. I am against open carry of rifles and shotgun (no matter the length) on city streets, except in purchase or taking from parking lot to repair, for those to inept to work on their own. I have no problem with large capacity AR magazines as they are much better for range practice. I have no problem with 15 rnd magazines, such as come standard with my PPQ and several other semi-automatic pistols. I favor common sense. I don't favor weapons ownership by children, certainly no as Loren Boebart does, buying a rifle, a shotgun and a pony for her two-year-old granddaughter. I favor all weapons in the house being under the control of parents, not minor children and think the parents should be to prosecution or held financially liable for any mis-use by their kids. I also favor stop and frisk to get the guns out of the hands of minors on the street and criminal thugs.

It is the "all the guns all the time for all the people anywhere and everywhere" crowd and the criminals that carry that are responsible for the backlash, more toward common sense regulation. It is these assholes that will mess it up for everybody, as the

Numbnuts you're the threat you and your ignorence

 

[White 6]

Really, you can't read what the solution is.

Most gun violence is perpetrated by criminals who illegally obtain their firearms. These same criminals are arrested and then quickly released back on the streets to perpetrate more crime. As a society we need to be tougher on criminals who commit crimes that involve guns. Murder with gun = life/death (I'll leave that up to the state to decide). If as a society we were tougher on criminals, it absolutely would help. Instead we have big cities like Chicago and San Francisco that are turning into shit holes because we have politicians and DAs that are turning their nose to crime.

The ATF, instead of trying to create laws, goes after the gun black market and shut down those operations getting more guns off the streets.
Maybe even entice some with lucrative buybacks.

The problem in this country is the sub-culture of crime, thuggery, and the lack of decent human respect.

So I take it, you favor stop and frisk along with Permit carry after training testing and background checks, better enabling law enforcement to enforce the laws that will help get guns out of the hands of criminals, thugs and juveniles on the street. Very good.

 

[2aguy]

So I take it, you favor stop and frisk along with Permit carry after training testing and background checks, better enabling law enforcement to enforce the laws that will help get guns out of the hands of criminals, thugs and juveniles on the street. Very good.

Any testing to exercise a Right is a violation of that Right...the same way the democrats uses literacy tests to keep blacks from voting.

And universal background checks are simply the trojan horse for gun registraton...which is the real goal of anti gunners when they demand universal background checks

 

[2aguy]

So I take it, you favor stop and frisk along with Permit carry after training testing and background checks, better enabling law enforcement to enforce the laws that will help get guns out of the hands of criminals, thugs and juveniles on the street. Very good.

Ill support stop and frisk of known criminals.....

 

[LibertyKid]

So I take it, you favor stop and frisk along with Permit carry after training testing and background checks

You'll need to define "Stop and Frisk".
I have my concerns with constitutional carry, I do. I get the argument "shall not be infringed" means, no need for permits, CCW license, etc. for some people.
Guns, regardless of the caliber and type, carry a lot of responsibility. When I got my CCW, I appreciated more the legal training and the repercussions that will come if you are involved in shooting, justified or not, than the actual shooting aspect.

So here is a thought. Some schools, actually teach proper gun use and responsibility and have shooting classes (they use air rifles) but the same safety and respect is required. If the 2A is a right, how about proper education in high school, mandatory. And not only do they learn to shoot, they learn every aspect when it comes to proper gun ownership. You pass this course when you graduate, you're a certified carry a handgun and rifle?

I have no problem with current background check process.

better enabling law enforcement to enforce the laws that will help get guns out of the hands of criminals, thugs and juveniles on the street. Very good.

I think citizens could help, and do at times. But the leftist legal narratives of trying to protect criminals makes it difficult for citizens to legally engage without criminal or civil tort. I have my CCW, but I don't carry very often because of this.
I think we should start hearing more of "gun busts" instead of drug busts.

 

[task0778]

So I take it, you favor stop and frisk along with Permit carry after training testing and background checks, better enabling law enforcement to enforce the laws that will help get guns out of the hands of criminals, thugs and juveniles on the street. Very good.

I do not believe those ideas will help law enforcement keep guns out of the hands of the bad guys. I could live with them, but I doubt their effectiveness. BUT, I'll tell you what will: deterrence happens when you put people in prison and keep them there for longer periods of time when they commit a crime with a gun, whether they used it or not. I do not believe the lack of a permit to carry will deter a bad guy from carrying one.